After the meeting with the ARNG recruiter...

[license2kill]

Hey guys, thanks for all you feedback to my previous questions. I just met with ARNG recruiter and I am now comparing it to HPSP. What would you do? And which do you think is better for my situation?

The ARNG recruiter came over this morning and we had a 2 hour long talk.

I am pretty sure, I will be doing one program or the other (HPSP or ASR) since I have a family to support.

I like the ARNG (ASR) program because, it pays about 50K/yr (before tax) with full benefits for my family while I am in school. I have to work as a liason between my school and the recruiting office, but duties seem to be at a minimal. But I also have to drill with the guard once a month, but that too seems flexible when I have finals or exams. After D school, I would serve with them for 4 years as a one weekend a month/ two weeks a year ARNG dentist while working in the private sector. I will also be prone to deployment during my service time but under the "90 days boots on ground" rule.
What do you think? Do you think that this is a good alternative to the HPSP for me?

I will be starting at Colorado with tuition at about 30K a year. And I forgot to mention that I could "potentially/realistcially" get around 9K per year of this tuition paid for by programs designed to help ARNG members go to school.

If I were going to BU, NYU, Harvard or something, HPSP would be great. But with low tuition, I am thinking that this is a good alternative. What do you think? Alot of this is not cut in stone, that is what I don't like about it. The recruiter says that I will have a limited role, but no clean cut hours per a week as a student recruiter- she just says that it is flexible. Being excused for drills during exam week, this also is at the discretion of the medical commander of the medical unit, but again the recruiter says that they are flexible and understanding. Can I count on these words without a written contract? I doubt that they will have me work my Asz off while in school, but these factors are more variables that hinder my ultimate decision.

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[kalvydas]

Alot of this is not cut in stone, that is what I don't like about it. The recruiter says that I will have a limited role, but no clean cut hours per a week as a student recruiter- she just says that it is flexible. Being excused for drills during exam week, this also is at the discretion of the medical commander of the medical unit, but again the recruiter says that they are flexible and understanding. Can I count on these words without a written contract? I doubt that they will have me work my Asz off while in school, but these factors are more variables that hinder my ultimate decision.

From my experience, you can never count on any word unless you have it written on the paper. Usually recruiters tell you whatever you "want to hear" and withdraw some information (if you don’t ask, they don’t tell). And usually information that you didn't ask/recruiter didn't tell has a quite big impact on your plans/career.

Get everything in writing!!!

 

[medtech211]

From my experience, you can never count on any word unless you have it written on the paper. Usually recruiters tell you whatever you "want to hear" and withdraw some information (if you don’t ask, they don’t tell). And usually information that you didn't ask/recruiter didn't tell has a quite big impact on your plans/career.

Get everything in writing!!!

You got that right, recruiters are salesman and many forget that. Though they are ultimately out to achieve their quotas you can use them to your advantage of you know your rights. Basically demand exactly what you want because they want you more than you want them, especially as a dentist recruit. As a military vet I can tell you that the medical professions are top priority for recruiters.

 

[license2kill]

So is it possible to add concessions outside of the standard program?

 

[umkcdds]

I was in the ARNG for my first two years on dental school (not under this program, though) before taking the HPSP scholarsip. While I can't speak for every unit, my unit was VERY flexible and understanding about what I needed to do for school.

Most medical company commanders (from what I've seen) are physicians (as opposed to just MS officers) so they understand.

I think it would be reasonable for your recruiter to be able to get you in contact with the commander of the unit you would be assigned to so that you can talk to him/her directly before signing anything.

 

[license2kill]

And by speaking with the commander, what do I ask and get accomplished? I mean, I don't know what to ask.

 

[teeth63a]

What is all comes down to is doing the math. Pencil it out, and it sounds like you have most of it figured out already. WIth an "inexpensive" school, you could pay off your loan relatively quickly right out of school, while making a good amount of money while in school (and being able to support your family). When comparing with active duty, be sure to check the pay scale, add the bonuses, BAH, and BAS. Is this yearly income more than what you'll be making as a civilian DDS right out of school? If not, ARNG may be the better way to go.

In terms of the deployment situation, I think your chance of deployment and length of deployment is significantly less at an ARNG vs active duty.

One other big factor is do you plan on making the military a career? If so, you may want to opt for the HPSP.

Another issue is drilling. I had barely time to breath while I was in dental school. While monthly duties may be light, it will take you away from school.

I myself took the HPSP in 1998 to pay for my tuition at Pacific.

 

[KOM]

I myself took the HPSP in 1998 to pay for my tuition at Pacific.

Have you been called back yet in the reserves? Are you glad to be done?

 

[teeth63a]

I went into the reserves (Individual Mobilization Augmentee) immediately right out of active duty, because I wanted to make more money, but wasn't quite ready to leave the military yet. Also, I was promised the HPLR (loan repayment).

This is my "the military screwed me over" story: I was misinformed by the recruiter and couldn't be under two contractural obligations..long story short, I didn't get the $20,000 HPLR for the first year.

So I went back into the Individual Ready Reserve. The IRR is basically a holding pool for people transitioning out, or back in to the military, as they wait for their military obligation to end.

I was never called back from the reserves. I talk to a lot of dentists, still active, or in the reserve, or in the guard. I have never heard of any dentists being called back from the IRR. Thankfully, enough dental school grads are still feeding into active duty.

The soldiers getting called back from IRR are usually transport, ordinance, or infantry. The dentists who really got screwed were the ones who were supposed to seperate in early 2003, when they were stop-lossed.

I thought I was going to do three years active duty and call it quits. There are still lucrative benefits/bonuses though to at least being a reserve or ARNG dentist. I'm in the process of researching the $75k bonus/3 year contract. I do have a successful private practice, but I still enjoy being in the military.

 

[Kabek]

There are still lucrative benefits/bonuses though to at least being a reserve or ARNG dentist. I'm in the process of researching the $75k bonus/3 year contract. I do have a successful private practice, but I still enjoy being in the military.

Teeth63A,

If you are researching the $75K bonus I am thinking of you probably won't be eligible. I believe the requirements are that you can't have been on active duty for the preceding period of at least 24 months and you can't have been an HPSP recipient. Please let me know if you find out something which waives these requirements.

 

[license2kill]

What is all comes down to is doing the math. Pencil it out, and it sounds like you have most of it figured out already. WIth an "inexpensive" school, you could pay off your loan relatively quickly right out of school, while making a good amount of money while in school (and being able to support your family). When comparing with active duty, be sure to check the pay scale, add the bonuses, BAH, and BAS. Is this yearly income more than what you'll be making as a civilian DDS right out of school? If not, ARNG may be the better way to go.

In terms of the deployment situation, I think your chance of deployment and length of deployment is significantly less at an ARNG vs active duty.

One other big factor is do you plan on making the military a career? If so, you may want to opt for the HPSP.

Another issue is drilling. I had barely time to breath while I was in dental school. While monthly duties may be light, it will take you away from school.

I myself took the HPSP in 1998 to pay for my tuition at Pacific.

Why is HPSP a better route if I am thinking about a career in the Army? I was thinking that if I did ARNG, couldn't I continue after my commitment? Actually a better question. How likely is it for me to switch to active duty without fulfilling my requirement with the ARNG? I was thinking about doing the ARNG (ASR) while in school for the 0-1 paycheck and possibly switching to active duty in lieu of drilling after dental school. I asked the recruiter if it was ok for me to transition, she said that "it is possible", but it kind of threw up red flags in my head. If the ARNG invested in me during dental school, then I assume they would want their dentist for four years after I graduate.

 

[teeth63a]

Teeth63A,

If you are researching the $75K bonus I am thinking of you probably won't be eligible. I believe the requirements are that you can't have been on active duty for the preceding period of at least 24 months and you can't have been an HPSP recipient. Please let me know if you find out something which waives these requirements.

Those are excellent points. I'm going to try to contact Incentives branch at HRC in St. Louis this week and find out. Will post when I find out more.

 

[teeth63a]

Why is HPSP a better route if I am thinking about a career in the Army?

Taking the HPSP and going active duty will fast track you to an AEGD residency or speciality residency (as long as you do well of course). With a 20 year career, you can collect retirement while you're still relatively young, then practice as a civilian for another 10-20 years. Your family has full benefits while you're active duty.

How likely is it for me to switch to active duty without fulfilling my requirement with the ARNG?

That is something only your recruiter can answer. "it is possible" doesn't cut it. I couldn't tell you who has the right answer though. I have an ARNG officer recruiter I know here and I'll ask. I would assume the same, that the ARNG would want its 4 years out of you after school.

 

[umkcdds]

And by speaking with the commander, what do I ask and get accomplished? I mean, I don't know what to ask.

talk about what would be expected of you during your drill weekends and your 15 days ADT each year.

as how flexible they are willing to be when it comes to letting you out of drills to study and how/if those would have to be made up.

they may not even require you to make up drills that you may or may not miss. but, of course, you wouldn't get paid for ones you don't do, and you don't earn retirement points for those weekends, which could mean that if you miss enough, you lose all retirement points for the year.

ask how many dentists they have had deployed, and for how long and what their experiences were like. you will be in a non-deployable status during dental school, so you won't have to worry about it.

find out what you would be doing during your drill weekends. remember that you won't really be qualified to do anything. you will be an MS officer that hasn't been to basic, or had any training on what an MS officer does. you won't be a dentist, so you can't do exams/dental work......but you will be an officer. you may be supervising privates scrubbing toilets for all i know.

you will need to ask about stuff like that.....

 

[Hawk2thDoc]

Teeth63A,

If you are researching the $75K bonus I am thinking of you probably won't be eligible. I believe the requirements are that you can't have been on active duty for the preceding period of at least 24 months and you can't have been an HPSP recipient. Please let me know if you find out something which waives these requirements.

Did you hear this from a recruiter or credible source? The reason I ask is because I am currently on active duty and planning on getting out and joining the Guard in two months. The Guard recruiter has been promising me the $75k for the first three years and then the HPLRP for the next 3. Most of the recruiters out there really don't know much, they just promise a bunch of things to get you to sign on the line and then they don't care if they were wrong.

 

[Kabek]

Did you hear this from a recruiter or credible source? The reason I ask is because I am currently on active duty and planning on getting out and joining the Guard in two months. The Guard recruiter has been promising me the $75k for the first three years and then the HPLRP for the next 3. Most of the recruiters out there really don't know much, they just promise a bunch of things to get you to sign on the line and then they don't care if they were wrong.

Hawk,

I was stating this in regards to accepting the bonus coming back onto active duty not joining the Guard. I have several friends who were ineligible to recieve the $75k after coming back on active duty because they had been HPSP recipients. I thought the other individual was looking at that option. I didn't know the Guard was offering such lucrative packages but please pass on the information once you find out some hard facts.

 

[Kabek]

I thought I was going to do three years active duty and call it quits. There are still lucrative benefits/bonuses though to at least being a reserve or ARNG dentist. I'm in the process of researching the $75k bonus/3 year contract. I do have a successful private practice, but I still enjoy being in the military.

Teeth63A,

Sorry, I didn't notice your coment on the bonus going to the Guard. My statement for the bonus requirements was for individuals coming back onto active duty. I have no idea what the bonus rules are for the Guard. Again sorry for the confusion.

Please let us know once you find out because it sounds like many individuals would be interested.

 

[license2kill]

Alright guys,

I have decided as of today to go HPSP despite my tuition being only 30K/yr at Colorado. ARNG (ASR) does give more money and flexibility, but with respect to having an interest to specialize, I think that HPSP is a better clean cut route than trying to jump holes after D school trying to get out of the ARNG to go active. Thanks for everyone's input.

 

[teeth63a]

Alright guys,

I have decided as of today to go HPSP despite my tuition being only 30K/yr at Colorado. ARNG (ASR) does give more money and flexibility, but with respect to having an interest to specialize, I think that HPSP is a better clean cut route than trying to jump holes after D school trying to get out of the ARNG to go active. Thanks for everyone's input.

We should have made you sign an Informed Consent form or Waiver of Liability for our advice, just in case you regret the decision down the road. Kidding.


I just saw that there's a $20k bonus for signing up. That's new to me. Don't forget that you have a yearly allowance to buy supplies.

Good choice and congratulations. I did 3 years active, including one rotation in Iraq. One of the best experiences of my life.

 

[whosmk]

For financial benefits (to support family), I'm thinking ASR instead of HPSP (not signed yet). However, I really want 2 yr AEGD in Army right after dental school. so my ideal scenario is, out of 8 yrs ARNG military obligation, 4 will be paid off during school, additional 2 as I do AEGD in Army, rest 2 as drill or IRR. would Army and Army National Guard work out something like that for ASR recipients?

 

[Kabek]

For financial benefits (to support family), I'm thinking ASR instead of HPSP (not signed yet). However, I really want 2 yr AEGD in Army right after dental school. so my ideal scenario is, out of 8 yrs ARNG military obligation, 4 will be paid off during school, additional 2 as I do AEGD in Army, rest 2 as drill or IRR. would Army and Army National Guard work out something like that for ASR recipients?

My guess would be this isn't realistic at all. In that scenario your aren't fulfilling either organizations commitments, the ASR commitment or an active duty residency commitment. Your best option is just to do the HPSP and spend the years on active duty if you desire the residency training (you won't regret it).

The Army isn't a system where you are able to pick and choose which items on a contract you would like to fulfill.

Either road you are able to serve your country.

 

[umkcdds]

For financial benefits (to support family), I'm thinking ASR instead of HPSP (not signed yet). However, I really want 2 yr AEGD in Army right after dental school. so my ideal scenario is, out of 8 yrs ARNG military obligation, 4 will be paid off during school, additional 2 as I do AEGD in Army, rest 2 as drill or IRR. would Army and Army National Guard work out something like that for ASR recipients?

not a chance.

 

[license2kill]

Just in case anyone is interested in the ASR program, I have updated info. After becoming frustrated with my recruiter due to their ignorance of their own program, I called an ASR recruiter in Seattle who was squared away.
ASR program is only for 3 years. Which 3 consecutive yrs is up to you. So it will actually be 5 yrs of drilling as a dentist. Supposedly as a dentist, u r elegible for additional bonuses the very first yr out. Also there seems to be a conditions form that is becoming standardized for ASR delineating specific expectations as a student recruiter and drilling expectations during school. If your ARNG asr recruiter is not squared away, you should talk to Cpt whitehall based in Seattle via WA ARNG website.

 

[krmower]

Just in case anyone is interested in the ASR program, I have updated info. After becoming frustrated with my recruiter due to their ignorance of their own program, I called an ASR recruiter in Seattle who was squared away.
ASR program is only for 3 years. Which 3 consecutive yrs is up to you. So it will actually be 5 yrs of drilling as a dentist. Supposedly as a dentist, u r elegible for additional bonuses the very first yr out. Also there seems to be a conditions form that is becoming standardized for ASR delineating specific expectations as a student recruiter and drilling expectations during school. If your ARNG asr recruiter is not squared away, you should talk to Cpt whitehall based in Seattle via WA ARNG website.

I think it would also be good to find out if you can deploy while you are drilling with the guard unit and you are in dental school. If they tell you no - ask to see where that is written in the contract.

If you deploy duirng school (even if it is only for 90 days), that delays you at least 1 semester in school, perhaps the whole year.