Airway Management - Graphic

doctor712

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Um, here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...atador-in-hospital-after-horrific-goring.html

Yes, in neck, out mouth. I wonder how this would be handled by anesthesia when the dude shows up in OR? I'm curious, if it's right through trachea, and you need to put this fellow to sleep so he can be fixed, how would that work? In other words, I imagine you'd induce with IV and not mask his...neck? But, when surgeons close up hole in throat, and he needs to breath outta his mouth, do you intubate following closure, and how do you ventilate? Do you still go out trachea to breath during entire case? Same thing for blunt trauma to face like GSW or anything else, when there is no oral airway, always through neck? But how to breath this guy when surgeon is closing and fixing their neck?

For the record, (after this matador stood up and beat up a crack addict - HA, Just kidding ;) ) DUDE lived. It was on today's cover of the NY Post but I can't get that link to work to well. Must be getting a lot of hits. NY Post homepage has a clearer shot.

Ouch.

D712
 
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Precedex

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if the bull's horn ripped through the trachea it would have been game-over pretty quicly. i suspect his airway must have been relatively intact for him to have made it to the hopsital.
 

doctor712

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Can you still address how open trachea trauma is handled by anesthesia?

D712
 

doctor712

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THANKS! Can't wait!

D712
 

Gimlet

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Gooo! Crazy picture! D712, you are fast becoming one of my favorite posters on here (lookout Jet!).

As far as open tracheal trauma, I guess my first step would be to secure the airway distally using any hole available. Will definitely be interested to hear IlD's story!
 

doctor712

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I figured distal to trachea wound! But didn't wanna seem...uninformed. And what if distal means upper chest...Anyway, looking forward to reading Il Destriero's "Trachea Trauma Pearl"!!!

Thanks for kind words, Gimlet!

D712
 

Jay K

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Matador was going in for the kill shot when he was gored - sword in hand. Plus one to the bull.

Without knowing where the horn entered and penetrated, hard to give you an appropriate answer. I also assume the horn was no longer present when he went to the hospital (didn't "break off" into the wound). Although "horrific" looking, the anesthetic plan probably would not be too difficult. The patient's likely a healthy ASA 1 with good heart and lungs and easy vascular access - once intubated, cake. In fact, since it was only a 6 hour case, probably went in the soft tissues submandibular and out the mouth, did little to no extensive damage to vital vascular structures in the neck, mandible or airway.

The article states they did an emergency tracheostomy at the hospital; This meant they were able to ventilate him adequately until he showed up there. So it was probably either just mask ventilate, field intubate w/ combitube or newer/similar type devices or even ETT. He recovered swiftly, so likely no anoxic brain injury hence easy vent until hospital.

Now, Il Destriero's case w/ a torn trachea by dog - THAT would have been a different case. I'll await his presentation and not jump the gun.
 

doctor712

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That video is hard to watch. Oof. Sorry for assuming trachea hit, got it. Thanks for response Jay K!

D712
 

Coastie

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retrograde over a wire..in this case, horn..bull did the work for ya!



Um, here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...atador-in-hospital-after-horrific-goring.html

Yes, in neck, out mouth. I wonder how this would be handled by anesthesia when the dude shows up in OR? I'm curious, if it's right through trachea, and you need to put this fellow to sleep so he can be fixed, how would that work? In other words, I imagine you'd induce with IV and not mask his...neck? But, when surgeons close up hole in throat, and he needs to breath outta his mouth, do you intubate following closure, and how do you ventilate? Do you still go out trachea to breath during entire case? Same thing for blunt trauma to face like GSW or anything else, when there is no oral airway, always through neck? But how to breath this guy when surgeon is closing and fixing their neck?

For the record, (after this matador stood up and beat up a crack addict - HA, Just kidding ;) ) DUDE lived. It was on today's cover of the NY Post but I can't get that link to work to well. Must be getting a lot of hits. NY Post homepage has a clearer shot.

Ouch.

D712
 

RT2MD

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Good thread! I'm enjoying the discussion from this one. I wonder if it had penetrated the Trachea, putting a ETT down the "stoma" would work the best? That way, surgery would be able to close most of it, then replace with a Trach tube? I don't know, just my (MS-0) idea...

I wonder if they have this scenario in this class?
http://www.slamairway.com/

Eagerly awaiting the dog bite story!
 

pgg

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In the field it's a judgment call between leaving the patient alone to breathe spontaneously to the hospital vs securing the airway any way you can.

In the hospital awake trach would be high on my list for any trauma to the trachea, but there are so many variables here - LOC of the patient, adequacy (or not) of spontaneous ventilation, damage to big vessels in the neck, level of the tracheal injury, c-spine precautions, etc.
 
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Here's the scene:
I'm 1st call. I inherit some long wreck of a case when I come in at 3pm. Crani for tumor resection, aneurysm, something long and painful. Things are actually running pretty smoothly in the ORs. I get the 2nd call guy out around 730 and have a fellow in the head case and a resident in an ORIF. The other resident is seeing preops somewhere. The crani finishes up and we're just arriving in the PICU when my phone goes off. The OR desk calling me on my phone can only mean 2 things, the resident just assassinated my ORIF or something REALLY BAD is on the way in.
"Dr. D, the ENT fellow just called and there is an 8 year old with dog bite to the neck that will be going emergently to the OR, ETA 10 minutes." Awesome.:thumbup:
I tell them to page the resident back from pre op duty, and send the fellow back down to set up the difficult airway cart and the fiber. I tuck the patient in the PICU with not much more report than stable for the last 13 hours and here's the record. The neurosurgery fellow was there to pick up the slack.
A little pause for some background. Prior to going back to fellowship I was an attending at a small hospital for a few years, alone and unafraid. We were by no means a trauma center, but we saw some crazy s h it in the ED. I had taken care of a few failed suicide attempts where they had blown their faces off, conveniently failing to actually kill themselves, apparently it is pretty common. I had done a couple of surgical cricothyroidotomies myself in the ED and watched the ED MDs place a couple of the emergency cric. kits. I had also intubated a few bad airways emergently that the ED MDs had failed to secure. When I was a resident I strolled down to the ED trauma bay one day and saw a dude with his trachea transected by a stab wound to the neck. The tube went right in the proximal half after the succs. Sorry no etomidate for you since you're bleeding to death and barely conscious anyway. My attending showed up 5 min later and said "Good job dude" and made a rapid exit while I was sewing it in place. He didn't make it to the OR. In this case, there was an ENT attending (but not an "airway" guy), fellow and resident available. Nothing to fear?
Kid hits the door, normal, healthy, happy, until a visit by Mr. Cujo the giant German Shepard. He strolled up to her, bit her in the neck and tried to drag her off, like Roy of Seigfreid and Roy and his tiger. Grandma beat him off with a rock.:eek: Nuts.
She has a C collar on, poorly, with a huge dressing on her neck. She had a little morphine somewhere along the line, either in her 5 min in the ED or on route, so she was calm. Monitors on. 1st assessment. Not bad, no bloodbath, awake, vitals were OK, spont ventilation. She is coughing up pink/bloody sputum. ENT guys want to do a flexible and/or rigid bronch with spont vent to assess cord function if possible as by report, there was air leaking from her bite. I give her some versed, prop and succs in line and they take down the dressing. The dog bit her right across the neck, I have no idea how he didn't hit one or more of the big red tubes in there. Just than, she coughs and a clot blasts out of one of the large jagged (canine tooth) wounds. "OK guys, enough of this s h it, time to get started and get a tube in there." The resident covers the hole with a tegaderm and we mask her down. Suctioned bloody secretions, ENT's nasal fiber shows that the trachea was crushed and the cords avulsed, but she has a fairly patent airway. A canine tooth went in right above the thyroid cartilage and ripped everything up. Things are oozing, so I again remind them that time is not necessarily on our side, as the several minute flexible fiber continues. We throw our fiber, with tube, in the mouth and guide it through the mess down to the carina. Tube in, gently and with extra lube. Suction airway and clear out some more bloody secretions. Big win for the home team. Call comes into the OR, the cops told the OR front desk that they shot the dog. Awesome.
They powwow and decide urgent tracheostomy, minimal airway reconstruction, inspection and washout of the other wounds and a post op CT scan to make sure that there was no hidden vascular injury, or cervical fracture. A few hours later and I'm on my way home, she's on the vent in the PICU. She's going to live, but a singing career is definitely out.
Key points:
-If she's stable and spontaneously ventilating, it's probably a good idea to continue that plan until the tube is going in.
-use the fiber to make sure that the tube doesn't go in a false passage and you make things a lot worse. A couple of liters or more of air in the mediastinum is not going to do you any favors. The ENT attending wanted to just put the tube in directly, I said hell no, I have the fiber all set up right here. I'll do it.:rolleyes:
-Have a plan B and C ready to go before you start. (fiber, diff airway cart, trach kit, retrograde wire, etc.)
-Don't F around too long without securing the airway, or you may not be able to. They would have spent 10 more minutes looking around. If she had a vascular injury, coughed and blew out a clot, the airway might have become impossible.
-I ordered emergency release blood into the OR, just in case, when they called and said she was on route.
-Don't forget about a possible yet to be discovered vascular injury or cervical fracture.
-if you don't necessarily like what the ENT, or whoever, is about to do, say something. They can be so focused on what they are doing, they might forget something important about the patient.

Tons of fun. It could have been far worse, but we were ready for anything!
"So in conclusion, thank you, Dean Martin and members of the graduating class, I have only one thing to say to you today. It's a jungle out there. You gotta look out for number one. But don't step in number two. And so, to all you graduates... as you go out into the world my advice to you is... don't go! It's rough out there. Move back with your parents! Let them worry about it!!!"
 
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doctor712

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Wow, thanks for posting that I.D.

Though I know others will get most of the clinical pearls for now, it's GREAT to read.

!

D712
 

Jay K

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I.D. you're one bad-a$s mofo... nice case.
 

fakin' the funk

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Thank you sir IlDestriero, for providing me something fun to look forward to, as the final month of my internal medicine internship, where we are scared to give 5mg metoprolol IV to rapid A-fibbers, yawns before me, but CA-1 waits beyond. Kickas s.
 

fastosprintini

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great description, thank you ID.
a few years back i saw a gentleman who failed to secure the blade of his angle grinder and almost transected his trachea right over the sternum , (again, how he missed the veins and arteries is beyond me) . we got the tube in through the wound right before the trachea slipped back into the thorax....
 

beavis

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Thank you sir IlDestriero, for providing me something fun to look forward to, as the final month of my internal medicine internship, where we are scared to give 5mg metoprolol IV to rapid A-fibbers, yawns before me, but CA-1 waits beyond. Kickas s.

no kidding fakin'. 5 mg metoprolol....500 cc bolus...all these things have to be discussed first. painful. 32 more days.
 

pgg

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:thumbup: Good case, and better tips/lessons.

no kidding fakin'. 5 mg metoprolol....500 cc bolus...all these things have to be discussed first. painful. 32 more days.

:laugh: I got paged a while back by a floor nurse who said a patient's blood pressure was better after 1 mg of labetalol, should she give the other 4 mg ordered by the surgeon. Apparently when giving labetalol, she was in the habit of giving 1 mg, waiting, checking a BP, 1 more mg, wait, BP check, etc.
 

fakin' the funk

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no kidding fakin'. 5 mg metoprolol....500 cc bolus...all these things have to be discussed first. painful. 32 more days.

It's going to be a total shock to my system to actually, y'know, DO some stuff to patients, intead of hemming and hawing over the esoteric differential diagnoses, freaking out over possible adverse effects of drugs, and being used to the 30-60 minute lag it takes for a nurse to execute a "now" order.

I remember one superdry ICU patient, when no one was bothering to actually hang some fluid (as usually fussing with the BP cuff and putting the ECG leads on as the guy rolled down from the floor), I actually had the GALL to hang some LR and pressure-bag it in thru the CVC myself, and was quickly admonished "If you want to be a NURSE go to NURSING SCHOOL." I still can't begin to fathom the stupidity of that statement.
 

bluewater

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When I was a resident, I had this 10 yo kid come into the trauma bay in pea s/p clothesline style injury while riding a dirt bike. Report from the flight said that the pt was initially breathing spontaneously but started to decomp and drugs were administered to assist intubation--- but nobody on the flight could get the tube in. In the trauma bay this kid had subcu air everywhere, hell he looked like a bullfrog, C collar, swollen to the point that it was impossible to open his mouth any appreciable distance. No obvious cut was noted in the neck but there was bruising everywhere. I figured we were in full blown arrest might as well try to do something fast while the surgeons are getting ready to cut into the neck. So placed a 7.0 into the right nare and grabbed the distal portion of the trachea just above the sternal notch (below the injury) and manipulated it until I felt it go in. Got really lucky on this one-- after we started to ventilate and got drugs and chest tubes in the kid, he made a come back. After stabilizing he went to the OR, where he was noted to have a total esophageal rupture and tracheal transection at the level of the glottis all from compression from the cable. I managed to put the 2 pieces of the trachea together. I will post the scans later.

But to contribute to the other earlier post, spont vent is key along with FO if possible to avoid a false track. Most of these injuries dont live long enough to see the hospital.
 

doctor712

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bluewater:

what happened to the kid in the end?

(optimism noted).

D712
 

lord_jeebus

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I remember one superdry ICU patient, when no one was bothering to actually hang some fluid (as usually fussing with the BP cuff and putting the ECG leads on as the guy rolled down from the floor), I actually had the GALL to hang some LR and pressure-bag it in thru the CVC myself, and was quickly admonished "If you want to be a NURSE go to NURSING SCHOOL." I still can't begin to fathom the stupidity of that statement.

I would have said "When IV fluid is administered by a physician, it is recognized as the practice of medicine. Physicians hang LR in all settings where IV fluids are administered, and numerous outcomes studies have demonstrated that there is no difference in the quality of IV fluids provided by physicians and their nurse-fluid-hanger counterparts."
 

lushmd

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Timely thread.

Heard an interesting story from last night's call team (sounds like it was a crazy night, among other things there was this case as well as a gentleman with proteus syndrome for some sort of urgent surgery):

Intoxicated male walking up hill slips/falls onto an iron fence prong which passed through the neck and out one cheek. Cut down by fire rescue and brought to ED where he was ventilating spontaneously. Quickly transported to the OR where he was successfully intubated via awake FOI with back up plans of DL and surgical airway (which likely would have been quite difficult given the location of the prong).
 
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I.D. you're one bad-a$s mofo... nice case.

It's funny that you said that because when I did my first surgical cricothyroidotomy, the ED Department head was the ER attending. He was a super fit 50+ year old adrenaline junky. I took one look at what used to be this failed suicide attempts face and said "betadyne and a 10 blade!" I did the deed, dialated it up with my pinkey, slid in a 7.5 cuffed tube and sutured it in place while the RT took over bagging duty. When all was said and done, the crusty ED chief says, "That was bad ass! How many of those have you done before?" I replied "none... Well I guess one now.". He looked at me, looked at the patient and said "you're hardcore man, Hard-Core". That was awesome feedback for a newly minted attending, and high praise from a guy like that.:laugh:
If you've not taken an ASA difficult airway course you should seriously consider it. You might learn something useful. :)
 

bluewater

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Note the free air everywhere and the distortion of the ant neck.
After rescus. the kid was neurologically intact (at baseline) though he basically had/has no voice. Multiple returns to the OR for revision.
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error404

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I would have said "When IV fluid is administered by a physician, it is recognized as the practice of medicine. Physicians hang LR in all settings where IV fluids are administered, and numerous outcomes studies have demonstrated that there is no difference in the quality of IV fluids provided by physicians and their nurse-fluid-hanger counterparts."

Love it.

Seriously, we have whole floors of my intern year hospital where we can't push IV antihypertensives. Apparently giving them IV is too dangerous compared to oral.

23 days.
 
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