Alabama DO School

[AV8TOR]

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Greetings all...
I am from Alabama and a friend of mine just showed me this article. Thought I would share the link for anyone looking to enter a DO school in 2 years......

http://www2.dothaneagle.com/dea/new...plans_to_open_medical_school/154059/#comments

 

[Mohammed1989]

Whoo hoo🙂

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

First class of 150 seems a bit on the large side, imo.

 

[DrRoast]

They have made it explicitly clear that they are opening this school to fill a primary care void. Thus, it would be nice if the school was only open to students who wished to pursue primary care and would be forced to follow through on their stated desire through some sort of contract or something with the school. A step in the right direction for the area, but only with said suggestions in my opinion.

 

[Poliscidoc]

They have made it explicitly clear that they are opening this school to fill a primary care void. Thus, it would be nice if the school was only open to students who wished to pursue primary care and would be forced to follow through on their stated desire through some sort of contract or something with the school. A step in the right direction for the area, but only with said suggestions in my opinion.

That would suck to be honest, people change there minds all the way through med school.

 

[gocatgo]

let's hope there's a concurrent increase in residency slots too...

 

[Bacchus]

I'm not going to lie, I'm impressed its being built by a medical center and not as a startup of its own. Someone had a head on his/her shoulders.

 

[Dello]

I think they have to say "fill the primary care void" to be approved and to quiet down any opposition. At the end of the day, it is where the demand is and where the students want to go (specialize) unless the healthcare change will make primary care more lucrative - or specialities less lucrative.

 

[Skippygonenuts]

They have made it explicitly clear that they are opening this school to fill a primary care void. Thus, it would be nice if the school was only open to students who wished to pursue primary care and would be forced to follow through on their stated desire through some sort of contract or something with the school. A step in the right direction for the area, but only with said suggestions in my opinion.

That would be horrible!! Imagine changing ur mind about why u wanna do after doing a rotation in that subject? Or realizing ur in love with a speciality but not being allowed to do that because the school doesn't allow u to. If that's not a nightmare then I dunno what is

 

[Bacchus]

You can recruit people that won't change their mind, 150 might be difficult however.

 

[Poliscidoc]

Why would Troy not open a medical school? I have been by Troy a couple times and isnt it close to Dothan? I only know from our trips to PCB for spring break.

 

[Cp22kjer]

let's hope there's a concurrent increase in residency slots too...

No kidding. And it won't happen.

 

[Flushot]

No kidding. And it won't happen.

My guess is they'll just manifest a bunch of transitional spots at random locations or locations that already have too many residents and M3/4s. Looking at the DO match last year, there were still many spots open, although they were in mostly in rural areas.

SAMC has time and they have resources, but like MLT2 said, 150 seems pretty high for a starting class.

 

[DrRoast]

You can recruit people that won't change their mind, 150 might be difficult however.

No joke, they definitely could find people that would commit to primary care, all these new schools are opening saying their goal is to increase primary care, so they need to follow through by only taking students that want to do primary care and that will actually do it. If students want to be a physician bad enough and know they want to do primary care, then they will fill the spots. If potential students have no interest in primary care, then they need to try and get into one of the other schools. Also, no way H*&L do they have a increase in residency spots to accommodate all these new students.

 

[divajazzerina]

How does that work when a school isn't affiliated with a university? will it automatically be a "for profit" institution? Please enlighten me as I have no knowledge in this area.

 

[exPCM]

I think they will have some success in meeting their goal of trying to help fill the primary care void. There will be more US med students and not a commensurate increase in US residency spots. As a result you will see more US med students going into primary care residencies due to the fact that all the specialty spots end up being taken and they have no other choice.

 

[JaggerPlate]

How does that work when a school isn't affiliated with a university? will it automatically be a "for profit" institution? Please enlighten me as I have no knowledge in this area.

No. They aren't for-profit unless they file for for-profit tax status. Only one DO school is for-profit, but many, many aren't affiliated with big universities.

 

[jrou111]

As an Alabama resident, I am happy even though I'm not interested (right now) in PCP. Maybe they'll have cheap tuition for in-state students.

 

[HarMegido]

"filling the primary care gap" is the excuse what medical schools, especially DO schools, use to open up a medical colleges to make money. schools also use that excuse to increase class sizes. if they really want to increase the amount of primary care doctors, they could just easily close down some specialty residencies and shift those spots to open up more primary care residencies. so while all these medical colleges are lauding primary care, they are scrambling around to open up more specialty residencies. and medical students are bright and ambitious people, you think they would want to chase after a specialty that pays less? i'm not putting down primary care, actually i consider that the most honorable and difficult to practice, it just doesn't have the glitz and glamour of other specialties.

p.s there's no shortage in physicians, just a shortage in healthy practices on the part of the general population but that's volenti non fit injuria, it should not the medical profession's problem

 

[DrRoast]

I think they will have some success in meeting their goal of trying to help fill the primary care void. There will be more US med students and not a commensurate increase in US residency spots. As a result you will see more US med students going into primary care residencies due to the fact that all the specialty spots end up being taken and they have no other choice.

Haha, oh I get it, just create tons of medical students with no increase in residency positions and then students will be forced to choose primary care because it will be all that is left after the specialties are filled up, thus filling the so-called "primary care void" Well, then I guess this school is serving its mission of increasing primary care physicians indirectly.

 

[ahens23]

http://www2.dothaneagle.com/news/20...ege-gets-green-light-move-forward-ar-2868016/

Looks like this is legit gonna happen. Don't wanna go DO, but if I had to I would. (Ala resident)

 

[IDBasco]

When is enough enough?

 

[LifeTake2]

When is enough enough?

When there are 5 4th-yr DO students for every AOA approved residency slot.

Obviously there is NO connection between the two currently, though there is a proposal floating around to fix that (crossing fingers).

 

[se20001984]

Keep em comming

Lets pump out more DOs

 

[El Dooderino]

Keep em comming

Lets pump out more DOs

Sounds like a fantastic business model, screw quality

 

[Mbeas]

Sounds like a fantastic business model, screw quality

I've never agreed with any of your other posts regarding DO's, but I totally agree with this. People keep saying that a greater # of DO's = more respect, opportunities, reputation, etc. because the general public (as well as medical professionals) will become more acquainted with DO's. But, if the quality of these schools is poor and their clinical foundations weak, then it will probably reflect poorly on the DO profession (yes, the entire profession). The Caribbean is notorious for being degree mills; some DO schools are starting to reflect a similar model (e.g. Touro, LECOM). This is not good news. Why do schools think there is some competition to graduate the most students? Honestly, whenever I see a school post stats like this, I think less of the school because it makes them sound like a degree mill.

 

[WDeagle]

Sounds like a fantastic business model, screw quality

I agree with the above few posts about DO school quality, residency spots, blah blah. However, I think this school is actually being built the correct way. The school already has a main hospital set up and in addition has several hospitals across the state that have been used by other DO schools for rotations for years. I think the plan is to start several residency programs at the main hospital. The state of alabama has basically been sending enough students to out of state DO schools each year to make up a full med school class through the AMEC program( www.amecdo.com). Alabama has an actual need for primary care docs in rural areas. The only people who are gonna move to rural alabama to practice medicine are people who are from there. The 2 instate MD schools dont produce enough PCP's. South Alabama has class sizes that are too small and UAB doesn't produce enough from their ivory tower. Unlike pretty much every DO school that has been built in the past 10 year this school is actually much needed and hopefully won't exist just to make someone else some easy money.

 

[NurWollen]

I've never agreed with any of your other posts regarding DO's, but I totally agree with this. People keep saying that a greater # of DO's = more respect, opportunities, reputation, etc. because the general public (as well as medical professionals) will become more acquainted with DO's. But, if the quality of these schools is poor and their clinical foundations weak, then it will probably reflect poorly on the DO profession (yes, the entire profession). The Caribbean is notorious for being degree mills; some DO schools are starting to reflect a similar model (e.g. Touro, LECOM). This is not good news. Why do schools think there is some competition to graduate the most students? Honestly, whenever I see a school post stats like this, I think less of the school because it makes them sound like a degree mill.

I agree with what you are saying in principle, but it's still a stretch calling Touro or LECOM "degree mills." We all know that the amount of effort necessary to get into and through any med school in the US is no mean feat.

 

[LifeTake2]

I agree with what you are saying in principle, but it's still a stretch calling Touro or LECOM "degree mills." We all know that the amount of effort necessary to get into and through any med school in the US is no mean feat.

Yes & no.

I would not compare the schools mentioned to carib; nor necessarily a degree mill.

However, there is a reason none (to my knowledge) of the 120+ allopathic schools have over 500 students graduating each year. It is not because there aren't applicants that would willingly pay to attend.

It is because they limit themselves to what they can train effectively both in the first 4 and in post-graduate slots.

A lesson I wish DO schools would learn before they water down an excellent option for medical school to the point that 10 years from now they are looked at like carrib schools 🙁🙁🙁

 

[NurWollen]

Yes & no.

I would not compare the schools mentioned to carib; nor necessarily a degree mill.

However, there is a reason none (to my knowledge) of the 120+ allopathic schools have over 500 students graduating each year. It is not because there aren't applicants that would willingly pay to attend.

It is because they limit themselves to what they can train effectively both in the first 4 and in post-graduate slots.

A lesson I wish DO schools would learn before they water down an excellent option for medical school to the point that 10 years from now they are looked at like carrib schools 🙁🙁🙁

Well, based on that thread about new COCA accreditation rules, maybe they are getting there.

 

[Dharma]

But, if the quality of these schools is poor and their clinical foundations weak, then it will probably reflect poorly on the DO profession (yes, the entire profession). The Caribbean is notorious for being degree mills; some DO schools are starting to reflect a similar model (e.g. Touro, LECOM). .

Hmm... LECOM, while not always a recipient of SDN-love, is actually known in the real world for being a pretty solid school in terms of preparing its students for boards, as well as offering good clinical rotations in the area. Looks like Touro has been doing ok for itself as well. It's a shame that those without direct experience with these schools are so quick to jump on the bandwagon and perpetuate the negativity so often seen from premeds on these boards.

That said, it is good to see that COCA is beginning to put the reigns on a potentially out-of-control beast before it is too late. And if a school has the right foundations set in place before opening shop, then game on.

 

[NurWollen]

Hmm... LECOM, while not always a recipient of SDN-love, is actually known in the real world for being a pretty solid school in terms of preparing its students for boards, as well as offering good clinical rotations in the area. Looks like Touro has been doing ok for itself as well. It's a shame that those without direct experience with these schools are so quick to jump on the bandwagon and perpetuate the negativity so often seen from premeds on these boards.

That said, it is good to see that COCA is beginning to put the reigns on a potentially out-of-control beast before it is too late. And if a school has the right foundations set in place before opening shop, then game on.]

I 100% agree. It's funny, I've seen LECOM frequently cited in both lists of the best DO schools and lists of the worst DO schools.

I agree though, if new DO schools can be required to have a solid foundation of clinical rotations and to be committed to the creation of solid residencies, then that is the best path forward for the osteopathic profession.

 

[poopyhead]

Hmm... LECOM, while not always a recipient of SDN-love, is actually known in the real world for being a pretty solid school in terms of preparing its students for boards, as well as offering good clinical rotations in the area. Looks like Touro has been doing ok for itself as well.

You mean specifically the practicing DOs, or including other health care professionals? Academia?

 

[Dharma]

You mean specifically the practicing DOs, or including other health care professionals? Academia?

DOs, MDs, PAs, and the NPs in a large academic hospital in greater NY metro area. There were actually LECOM students rotating there (I'm assuming on away rotations because the hospital is not mentioned on any affiliated lists) and over the years these students left a lasting, positive impression on the attendings and other staff. Interestingly enough, I have heard similar stories from other students in different areas of the northeast.

 

[Mbeas]

deleted

don't need to say anymore about LECOM...I have my opinion, you have yours

 

[DO Anes]

I agree with what you are saying in principle, but it's still a stretch calling Touro or LECOM "degree mills." We all know that the amount of effort necessary to get into and through any med school in the US is no mean feat.

The stretch is more in calling LECOM a medical school.

 

[Dharma]

The stretch is more in calling LECOM a medical school.

Sometimes you have good things to say, but this time you're just being a...

 

[DO Anes]

Uh huh. We just went through 1000 residency applicants. The plethora of LECOM campuses, teaching models, etc. is confusing and seen as less credible, even to DO friendly programs. My favorite is their "independent study" program. Just having LECOM on the file is enough for some people to toss it into a different pile. Not fair, but we live in the real world.

 

[Dharma]

Uh huh. We just went through 1000 residency applicants. The plethora of LECOM campuses, teaching models, etc. is confusing and seen as less credible, even to DO friendly programs. My favorite is their "independent study" program. Just having LECOM on the file is enough for some people to toss it into a different pile. Not fair, but we live in the real world.

I'm not buying it. With every post you make, your words hold less weight.

 

[jinobi]

I'm not buying it. With every post you make, your words hold less weight.

So from your perspective, what aren't you getting?

This is the opinion from a departmental chair. His opinion does not reflect all residency program in the US, hence why LECOM is still able to match most of their graduates into programs. However, DO Anes's view on LECOM graduates is still valid for his own residency program - and it may be true of other competitive programs in his league as well.

Look at it this way: people are wary of LECOM due to their lack of standardization. Why are they offering multiple educational systems across multiple sites, instead of sticking to a single one which they can continue to make improvements from like the majority of US medical schools? More importantly, look at their clinical rotations: they display a boatload of variability. One of the critical flaws of many DO schools is their lack of a main teaching hospital, where standards can be more closely watched and resources consolidated to attract the best attendings who want to enjoy a collaborative atmosphere and take advantage of the latest advancements. Some DO schools handle this downside better than others, but LECOM sends their kids to rotation sites spread among eight states. The quality of your rotation is going to be hit or miss, especially with the inadequate advice given by LECOM's single clinical rotation office for all three campuses. Residency programs have no way to verify the quality of clinical education that each LECOM student chose; some may have inadequate inpatient ward-based experience, making up for that with tons of outpatient, preceptor-based, or even physician's offices. It's kinda the same conundrum Caribbean students go through - how the heck do you know that each student has received the same baseline quality of clinical education, given that they're spread out over a wide variety of sites?

It's up to the student to demonstrate that he/she has gained enough clinical experience to perform the duties expected of a PGY-1, and to know enough about the intricacies of a residency program (grand rounds, clinical conferences, didactics...). Without that, you'll have a very steep learning curve that many residency programs will not tolerate in their first year residents; as a newly minted house staff, you have plenty to catch up with.

 

[Dharma]

Just to address your apparent disdain for LECOM (to the doc that is):

There are two main campuses, both of which require separate applications and have their own clinical affiliations. The other satellite campus is not far from the main campus and is PBL-based. Most of these students will join Erie students during years 3 and 4. Plethora of campuses? Stretch.

As far as the pathways go, LECOM is one of many schools going the route of offering multiple pathways, and surely the numbers of schools doing so will grow in coming years. Regardless of one's pathway, LECOM students have mandatory lectures for a handful of classes (don't know all of them off the top of my head, but gross anatomy, histology, and all associated labs come to mind). And by mandatory it means you HAVE to be there or your grades will suffer. Which brings me to your issues with independent study pathway.

How many times have you heard of medical students not showing up to lectures, referring to them as a waste of their time, and spending that time in the library studying instead? A lot! Scan these boards and you will find that many actually recommend doing so. How is an independent study pathway any different, besides it being an acknowledgment of taking this route of study, especially when all labs, major class lectures, and workshops are still mandatory?

 

[Dharma]

Look at it this way: people are wary of LECOM due to their lack of standardization. Why are they offering multiple educational systems across multiple sites, instead of sticking to a single one which they can continue to make improvements from like the majority of US medical schools? More importantly, look at their clinical rotations: they display a boatload of variability. One of the critical flaws of many DO schools is their lack of a main teaching hospital, where standards can be more closely watched and resources consolidated to attract the best attendings who want to enjoy a collaborative atmosphere and take advantage of the latest advancements. Some DO schools handle this downside better than others, but LECOM sends their kids to rotation sites spread among eight states. The quality of your rotation is going to be hit or miss, especially with the inadequate advice given by LECOM's single clinical rotation office for all three campuses. Residency programs have no way to verify the quality of clinical education that each LECOM student chose; some may have inadequate inpatient ward-based experience, making up for that with tons of outpatient, preceptor-based, or even physician's offices. It's kinda the same conundrum Caribbean students go through - how the heck do you know that each student has received the same baseline quality of clinical education, given that they're spread out over a wide variety of sites?

It's up to the student to demonstrate that he/she has gained enough clinical experience to perform the duties expected of a PGY-1, and to know enough about the intricacies of a residency program (grand rounds, clinical conferences, didactics...). Without that, you'll have a very steep learning curve that many residency programs will not tolerate in their first year residents; as a newly minted house staff, you have plenty to catch up with.

Now THAT I can buy. The pathways excuse is hogwash though. Most of the basic sciences come down to learning the material on one's own anyway so it makes for a weak argument to judge a school based on offering different learning modalities, especially when judging in a negative light. But the clinical argument, now that I can see. I'm not saying I agree with you, but your argument is logical, and is definitely food for thought.

 

[Cochan]

So from your perspective, what aren't you getting?

This is the opinion from a departmental chair. His opinion does not reflect all residency program in the US, hence why LECOM is still able to match most of their graduates into programs. However, DO Anes's view on LECOM graduates is still valid for his own residency program - and it may be true of other competitive programs in his league as well.

Look at it this way: people are wary of LECOM due to their lack of standardization. Why are they offering multiple educational systems across multiple sites, instead of sticking to a single one which they can continue to make improvements from like the majority of US medical schools? More importantly, look at their clinical rotations: they display a boatload of variability. One of the critical flaws of many DO schools is their lack of a main teaching hospital, where standards can be more closely watched and resources consolidated to attract the best attendings who want to enjoy a collaborative atmosphere and take advantage of the latest advancements. Some DO schools handle this downside better than others, but LECOM sends their kids to rotation sites spread among eight states. The quality of your rotation is going to be hit or miss, especially with the inadequate advice given by LECOM's single clinical rotation office for all three campuses. Residency programs have no way to verify the quality of clinical education that each LECOM student chose; some may have inadequate inpatient ward-based experience, making up for that with tons of outpatient, preceptor-based, or even physician's offices. It's kinda the same conundrum Caribbean students go through - how the heck do you know that each student has received the same baseline quality of clinical education, given that they're spread out over a wide variety of sites?

It's up to the student to demonstrate that he/she has gained enough clinical experience to perform the duties expected of a PGY-1, and to know enough about the intricacies of a residency program (grand rounds, clinical conferences, didactics...). Without that, you'll have a very steep learning curve that many residency programs will not tolerate in their first year residents; as a newly minted house staff, you have plenty to catch up with.

The pathways LECOM offers allow alternate learning styles to be accessible and are annually adjusted for improvements. You don't have to simply stick to one teaching style to make sound improvements. LECOM does have their own hospital, Milcreek which has their own residency programs. You do have the option as a student to rotate here and spend time with the attendings and residents. However you can rotate at various locations, some are at larger teaching hospitals and others are community centers. It provides a student with exposure to different aspects to medicine.

Im just trying to say that the quality of education is good, may not be the best, but will make a good doctor.

 

[roast]

LECOM bradentons Pbl program has the highest board scores in the country on comlex and multiple kids with VERY high usmle scores, how can u say this? The program is great. I hear the Erie is terrible but don't lump them together. Bradenton operates academically on its on accord. It does not fall under Eries umbrella.

 

[WDeagle]

LECOM bradentons Pbl program has the highest board scores in the country on comlex and multiple kids with VERY high usmle scores, how can u say this? The program is great. I hear the Erie is terrible but don't lump them together. Bradenton operates academically on its on accord. It does not fall under Eries umbrella.

Well change the name of the school then. How are people supposed to keep track of which branch campuses suck and which ones are good. Imagine how annoying it is if you are the one trying to sift through residency apps to pick which candidates to interview. Also, nice bump.

 

[roast]

Well change the name of the school then. How are people supposed to keep track of which branch campuses suck and which ones are good. Imagine how annoying it is if you are the one trying to sift through residency apps to pick which candidates to interview. Also, nice bump.

id be happy if they would change the lunch menu, how the hell am i supposed to get them to change the name of the school. they want to make LECOM a brand name and its common knowledge they run the school like a business. i think you shouldn't look at the name and instead look at the persons application.

 

[NurWollen]

I love how a thread about ACOM has become a bash-LECOM thread.

I for one have LECOM pretty high on my list.

 

[WDeagle]

id be happy if they would change the lunch menu, how the hell am i supposed to get them to change the name of the school. they want to make LECOM a brand name and its common knowledge they run the school like a business. i think you shouldn't look at the name and instead look at the persons application.

Nice bump again. I agree that you should look at a persons application but most PD's are going to look at school name too. I don't have anything against LECOM and I'm not trying to bash it. Although I think LECOM students get really screwed with the way they have rotations set up. I've seen quit a few of them rotate through our hospital as 3rd years. They don't have base hospitals set up and are basically orphaned and move month to month. Students literally move to different hospitals and different states for 3rd year rotations(rotations which they had to set up themselves too). How is anyone supposed to learn anything in this scenario. I've met students who basically lived in student housing, extended stays, and peoples couches for the entirety of 3rd and 4th year and moved every single month. Maybe it's just the handful of students I've met who had to do this or maybe its the norm. I just think a school that charges so much tuition should be more humane in the way it treats its 3rd years.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

id be happy if they would change the lunch menu, how the hell am i supposed to get them to change the name of the school. they want to make LECOM a brand name and its common knowledge they run the school like a business. i think you shouldn't look at the name and instead look at the persons application.

👍

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

"filling the primary care gap" is the excuse what medical schools, especially DO schools, use to open up a medical colleges to make money. schools also use that excuse to increase class sizes. if they really want to increase the amount of primary care doctors, they could just easily close down some specialty residencies and shift those spots to open up more primary care residencies. so while all these medical colleges are lauding primary care, they are scrambling around to open up more specialty residencies. and medical students are bright and ambitious people, you think they would want to chase after a specialty that pays less? i'm not putting down primary care, actually i consider that the most honorable and difficult to practice, it just doesn't have the glitz and glamour of other specialties.

p.s there's no shortage in physicians, just a shortage in healthy practices on the part of the general population but that's volenti non fit injuria, it should not the medical profession's problem

I'd have to agree with all of your post especially in Alabama. 3/4 of our PCP's don't care about the patients and are only there to be a pill mill.