Am I automatically disqualified from getting into med school?

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[ZPakEffect]

The fact that your undergrad ranked its students doesn't disqualify from medical school. The fact that you have a GPA of 3.14 is what really hurts your chances of getting into medical school. Even then, DO grade replacement or performing well in a SMP are possible avenues you can pursue to get in despite your GPA.

 

[Catalystik]

I graduated last year with a fairly low gpa of 3.14 in a non-science degree. I managed to complete most of the science prereqs except organic chemistry and biochemistry so decided to enroll in a postbacc program to complete the courses and raise my undergrad gpa.

Out of curiosity I decided to view my undergrad transcript and was shocked because my undergrad ranks its students. I fell in the 27th percentile overall, and in addition, each semester my cumulative and semester class rank was published. Are my chances for med school ruined? I am just really distraught because most undergrad institutions don't rank so I am just feeling really depressed despite doing well in my postbacc program.

Your school's ranking of you would not appear on the transcript that the application service generates for you. The only med school that will see your actual official transcript is the med school you will attend. And this is after you're accepted, not before.

 

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[Goro]

Not at all!

The fastest path for you to become a doctor will be to retake all F/D/C science coursework, do well on MCAT, and apply to DO schools.

IF you're boning for the MD degree, there are MD schools that reward reinvention. You'll need to ace all the classic pre-reqs, and ace either a post-bac (which can be DIY) or a SMP, ideally one given at a med school. Then also ace MCAT (513 or better, 33+ on the old scale).

Do not apply until you have the best possible app. This is a marathon, not a sprint. Med schools aren't going anywhere, and, in fact, by the time you apply, several more schools will have opened their doors.

I graduated last year with a fairly low gpa of 3.14 in a non-science degree. I managed to complete most of the science prereqs except organic chemistry and biochemistry so decided to enroll in a postbacc program to complete the courses and raise my undergrad gpa.

Out of curiosity I decided to view my undergrad transcript and was shocked because my undergrad ranks its students. I fell in the 27th percentile overall, and in addition, each semester my cumulative and semester class rank was published. Are my chances for med school ruined? I am just really distraught because most undergrad institutions don't rank so I am just feeling really depressed despite doing well in my postbacc program.

 

[Jalby]

Alright. I know I'm going to get a lot of people hating on me for this.

You should give up on being a doctor. There is no way a medical school would accept you with a 3.14 GPA. There is no way that you could get the 39 or so (old scores. like me, I'm old) to be able to even be considered for med school. You will waste years of your life to figure this out and it is just better to redirect your focus now. Maybe you should consider becoming a physicians assistant??

 

[ChrisMack390]

Alright. I know I'm going to get a lot of people hating on me for this.

You should give up on being a doctor. There is no way a medical school would accept you with a 3.14 GPA. There is no way that you could get the 39 or so (old scores. like me, I'm old) to be able to even be considered for med school. You will waste years of your life to figure this out and it is just better to redirect your focus now. Maybe you should consider becoming a physicians assistant??

Seriously man? Do you get off on ripping into strangers for no reason? Completely unnecessary. Sure, OP has his work cut out for him, but this post is just ignorant.

 

[Jalby]

Seriously man? Do you get off on ripping into strangers for no reason? Completely unnecessary. Sure, OP has his work cut out for him, but this post is just ignorant.

I'm sorry if I am the only person who is willing to tell the OP realistic device. Not everybody gets to grow up to be an astronaut or a doctor, no matter how hard they try. The OP could waste years trying, but his life would be better off if he (or she) just moves on an readjusts her goals accordingly. In the two years I had data of admissions at USC, the lowest GPA was a 3.2, and that was a URM with a great life story. Every other person was 3.4 or above with rare rare exceptions. If you have a 3.14 you won't even make the first cut to look at the application.

 

[Lost In Transcription]

I'm sorry if I am the only person who is willing to tell the OP realistic device. Not everybody gets to grow up to be an astronaut or a doctor, no matter how hard they try. The OP could waste years trying, but his life would be better off if he (or she) just moves on an readjusts her goals accordingly. In the two years I had data of admissions at USC, the lowest GPA was a 3.2, and that was a URM with a great life story. Every other person was 3.4 or above with rare rare exceptions. If you have a 3.14 you won't even make the first cut to look at the application.

"Waste years of life trying"

Or OP can enjoy the journey and the opportunities they find along the way, if they want to be a doctor.

Happiness comes from the path, not the end goal.

OP, listen to Goro. You're not the first or last applicant like this. It will take a lot of work...but can happen. Make sure you know medicine is what you want, and thay being a physician is what you want!

 

[Skydive Fox]

Alright. I know I'm going to get a lot of people hating on me for this.

You should give up on being a doctor. There is no way a medical school would accept you with a 3.14 GPA. There is no way that you could get the 39 or so (old scores. like me, I'm old) to be able to even be considered for med school. You will waste years of your life to figure this out and it is just better to redirect your focus now. Maybe you should consider becoming a physicians assistant??

This is the most ******ed advice I've ever read on SDN (even worse than the people recommending Caribbeans). You know nothing of OP's story or the circumstances of the GPA. If OP's willing to put in hard work and has the right motivation, who are you to say so definitively that they won't make it?

DO grade replacement has the possibility to significantly bring up a 3.14 GPA to a more competitive range. My uncle graduated undergrad with a GPA in the high 2.0's but kicked ass at a master's program. He ended up getting into several DO schools and one MD school (not Carib, but a mission-based low tier school) and is now a couple years into a general surgery residency.

 

[starspells]

I'm sorry if I am the only person who is willing to tell the OP realistic device. Not everybody gets to grow up to be an astronaut or a doctor, no matter how hard they try. The OP could waste years trying, but his life would be better off if he (or she) just moves on an readjusts her goals accordingly. In the two years I had data of admissions at USC, the lowest GPA was a 3.2, and that was a URM with a great life story. Every other person was 3.4 or above with rare rare exceptions. If you have a 3.14 you won't even make the first cut to look at the application.

That's USC... It's known to be one of the more selective schools. There are still plenty of other schools that would give OP a look.

And who says OP can't bring up their GPA? Yes a 3.14 probably wouldn't cut it right now but a 3.3-3.4 with 1-3 years of good grades would certainly help OP in obtaining admission into a US MD/DO school.

 

[Jalby]

It was a 3.14 GPA for a non-science degree. If the OP had taken more science classes the GPA would have been under 3.0. It is 27th percentile from the school. When I applied, only 35% of the people who applied to med school got in. So that chances of him getting into Medical school is much much less than 1% IMHO.

Could he get into a carribean school?? Maybe. Could he pass his boards?? Nope.

Come on guys. Give actual realistic advice instead of feeling advice of what you wish could happen, instead of what probably will happen.

 

[cherubb3]

I had less than a 3.14 GPA when I decided to go for medical school. I succeeded in a 2-year DIY post-bacc, got involved in all of the right ECs, and studied hard to get a 34 MCAT. I am starting at a "top 25" medical school in three weeks. It was not easy, but it can be done.

 

[TaupePremed]

No, you should follow your dreams.

It is frankly irresponsible that someone told you to give up your dream before you even know your MCAT score, and without additional information about you and what makes you special. Your GPA is just one number, and it isn't set in stone (until your AMCAS gets verified, then it is).

If you have the fire in your belly, you should see how well you can do on the MCAT, see how well you can do in post-bacc, and just keep chugging.

Giving up is the only thing that definitely disqualifies you from med school.* Giving up almost always results in non-success, in my experience.

* This is an oversimplification for rhetorical purposes. Getting hit by a bus (fatally) would obviously also disqualify you from med school (and the Nobel Prize, for which you must be alive). Also, like, don't get a felony drug charge. That would probably also throw a wrench in the gears.

 

[ChrisMack390]

@Jalby no one is telling OP to go head and apply with a 3.14. They are telling him to retake all C/D/F grades and/or do a post-bacc or SMP and apply with a better GPA than that. Medical schools specifically state that an upward GPA trend is one of their most important admissions factors.

If OP applied right now, yes they would probably be out of luck. If they apply after 2-3 years of strong academics, they may be able to tell a great story and get into a great school.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Damn @Jalby youre one of the attending a I really respect on here.

I guess you are right that statistically OPs current app is DOA. But there's so much we don't know here.

Just for starters what is OPs sGPA? Also what state is OP in, what undergrad did he/she attend, and what race/ethnicity are they?

Yea they probably aren't getting into USC...but like almost no one is getting into USC lol. I could see a new MD program or DO program though, no?

 

[Law2Doc]

It was a 3.14 GPA for a non-science degree. If the OP had taken more science classes the GPA would have been under 3.0. It is 27th percentile from the school. When I applied, only 35% of the people who applied to med school got in. So that chances of him getting into Medical school is much much less than 1% IMHO.

Could he get into a carribean school?? Maybe. Could he pass his boards?? Nope.

Come on guys. Give actual realistic advice instead of feeling advice of what you wish could happen, instead of what probably will happen.

With grade replacement for DO it is not unrealistic or unusual for one to retake science courses until the GPA is within the acceptable range. It likely will take a few years of rehabilitation but people have certainly come back from scores similar to OP. Allo might be more unrealistic as OP would generally need a higher GPA without the benefit of grade replacement, but a friendly state school with strong in state preference might help. It's a couple years too soon to write OP off as "maybe Caribbean" though.

As for whether someone who struggled with the premed sciences will also struggle with the boards, the answer to that is "maybe", but most people who retook classes to get into med school actually do make it past the steps.

 

[Jalby]

All of you telling the OP to pursue their dreams, what do you think is a realistic chance he gets into medical school?? I give it 1/1000. If he has some great reason why he was 27th percentile for all four years I give it 1/500.

 

[Jalby]

To the OP, if your school has a guidance counselor/pre-med advisor, go talk to them. Or go set up an appointment at your local state school or DO admissions office. Ask them for advice. They will tell you the same thing I am.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

If he has some great reason why he was 27th percentile for all four years.

 

[GrapesofRath]

There are always two ways of looking at situations like this.

View 1:

1) Average DO matriculant. cGPA: 3.5 sGPA: 3.4. Grade replacement causes DO GPA's to skyrocket fast. 3.14 can become 3.44 alot faster than people think.
2) Average DO MCAT: 27. Hit about 56th percentile or higher on the MCAT, youll be here. Beating out 4/7 people on a test where many many many dont take seriously or just completely tank if you sufficiently prepare for is not a daunting task. Not everybody is capable of getting 25-26+. But many are.
3) If you get into a DO school, the overwhelming majority make it to graduation date.
4) Many people in the past have gone from this GPA with a strong PB/SMP and strong MCAT score to an MD school. Not all can do this certainly, but there is a clear paved path to success this way many have followed.

In summary, it's very feasible to go from here to a US medical school. Those who cant really shouldnt be in med school if you cant get A's on some retakes and 50th+ percentile on the MCAT

View 2:

1) Med school is expensive grueling and far more info than UG ever was. Struggling in UG is not a good sign for medical school. Getting A's on retakes doesnt necessarily do a great job showing you can handle new med school material at insane volumes.
2) Even if 10% of DO's dont make it to graduation that is significant. That's 100-200+k of lost money and years lost you could be doing something else.
3) Graduation rates in general are piss poor indicators of aptitude. Many barely squeak by. Youll find a small fraction who graduate and dont match(and this number will very likely go up for sure with the upcoming merger for DO schools). And just squeaking by is not a lifestyle that is ideal. You're always on the edge of your seat. And youll probably feel the same way in residency which you might not be guaranteed to finish either. And if you cant finish your residency, then the impact of lost years and money due to med school tuition is even more daunting.
4) A doctor is a doctor but there are huge huge variations in where people match. If the best you can do as a DO who just squeaks by is family medicine in a very rural area such as North Dakota will that make you happy? How will that affect other parts of your life and longer term goals? Again have to ask yourself.

And of course there is the idea of life satisfaction with career decision and enjoying your job. Everybody at all levels, those who barely squeaked by in med school/residency to the 265+ Step 1 Harvard grad has people completely unsatisfied with the choice to do medicine and all it does on them. When you are talking about taking several years to re-mediate your app with no guarantees, there's even a greater need to get the best gauge of the field you can and whether you think it is the right choice for you.

Which view ultimately is the one you should take? Nobody here can answer that. Likely it's a combination of both. But there always two sides to this.

 

[Giovanotto]

All of you telling the OP to pursue their dreams, what do you think is a realistic chance he gets into medical school?? I give it 1/1000. If he has some great reason why he was 27th percentile for all four years I give it 1/500.

 

[QuestionsAnswers]

Alright. I know I'm going to get a lot of people hating on me for this.

You should give up on being a doctor. There is no way a medical school would accept you with a 3.14 GPA. There is no way that you could get the 39 or so (old scores. like me, I'm old) to be able to even be considered for med school. You will waste years of your life to figure this out and it is just better to redirect your focus now. Maybe you should consider becoming a physicians assistant??

The OP needs to complete many of the same science courses for PA school that he/she would for medical school (so why not pursue medical school first vs. PA school since most of the coursework is similar?). Also, he/she will not have the same GPA ideally after a post-bacc and grade repair, particularly with grade replacement offered by DO programs. However, it is true that the OP will need to perform much better in a science post bacc and showing consistent good performance in the post bacc series will be particularly important as I understand it (i.e., the OP should start the post-bacc when prepared to perform well).

 

[binko]

Thanks for responding everyone! I feel a lot better now and am going to continue doing well in my postbacc, and hopefully do well on the MCAT. If need be, I will apply to an SMP afterwards.

Definitely look into the DO grade replacing thing.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

Are you sure you're reading it correct? If 73% of people did better than you, at 3.14 GPA, means your school is very glade inflated

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Are you sure you're reading it correct? If 73% of people did better than you, at 3.14 GPA, means your school is very glade inflated

I was just thinking that...the bottom quartile of OPs entire university was still above a B average

Sounds like one rigorous academic institution...

 

[ChrisMack390]

All of you telling the OP to pursue their dreams, what do you think is a realistic chance he gets into medical school?? I give it 1/1000. If he has some great reason why he was 27th percentile for all four years I give it 1/500.

You are not reading anyone's posts though. Not a single person has told this guy to just go ahead and apply with his 3.14.

 

[prettylittlebird]

All of you telling the OP to pursue their dreams, what do you think is a realistic chance he gets into medical school?? I give it 1/1000. If he has some great reason why he was 27th percentile for all four years I give it 1/500.

Idiotic. I know plenty of people who got into medical school with a sub 3.5 GPA and I got in with a 3.2 (to anAllopathic school on the East Coast). It would be tough work but definitely not impossible for OP to take some classes and bring that GPA up to a respectable number as well as round out his application if medicine is in fact his dream. People like you are the worst because they love to tear people down but have absolutely no basis for the terrible advice they so gleefully give out.

 

[Jalby]

Idiotic. I know plenty of people who got into medical school with a sub 3.5 GPA and I got in with a 3.2 (to anAllopathic school on the East Coast). It would be tough work but definitely not impossible for OP to take some classes and bring that GPA up to a respectable number as well as round out his application if medicine is in fact his dream. People like you are the worst because they love to tear people down but have absolutely no basis for the terrible advice they so gleefully give out.

What do you think his chances are?? I got in with a 3.27 GPA, but it was 3.7 my last two years. And I have PLENTY of basis for my advice. Almost everybody I know who got a 3.14 got a 3.14 for a reason. And the vast vast majority of people who get 3.14 cannot handle the amount of work required to be a doctor.

This is not supposed to be a support group. He asked for advice. I gave it. Saying shoot for your dreams is also advice, but foolish advice. People should have achievable goals.

 

[Jalby]

You are not reading anyone's posts though. Not a single person has told this guy to just go ahead and apply with his 3.14.

I understand the concept. People seem to believe that someone who is 27th percentile in their school can suddenly become 80-90th percentile, repeat all of their grades, hope the Adcom overlooks the original grades, and rocks the MCAT 2-3 years later.

I am saying that as an Adcom, even if he or she does all of that, I wouldn't trust them to be able to pass the board exams and be able to handle the workload of medical school. So he should save the three years of his or her life and try to achieve a more realistic goal and not put him or her $100-150k more in debt trying.

 

[prettylittlebird]

What do you think his chances are?? I got in with a 3.27 GPA, but it was 3.7 my last two years. And I have PLENTY of basis for my advice. Almost everybody I know who got a 3.14 got a 3.14 for a reason. And the vast vast majority of people who get 3.14 cannot handle the amount of work required to be a doctor.

This is not supposed to be a support group. He asked for advice. I gave it. Saying shoot for your dreams is also advice, but foolish advice. People should have achievable goals.

Please stop trying to disguise your vitriol as "good advice." Where do you get the idea that the vast majority of people who get a 3.14 can't handle the work to be a doctor? You have no idea what people can and cannot handle and frankly it's not all to do with GPA. Also you're missing the point - no one is saying this kid is gonna get in with no problems with that GPA, we're suggesting he work to improve but that it's worth it not to give up.

 

[ChrisMack390]

I understand the concept. People seem to believe that someone who is 27th percentile in their school can suddenly become 80-90th percentile, repeat all of their grades, hope the Adcom overlooks the original grades, and rocks the MCAT 2-3 years later.

I am saying that as an Adcom, even if he or she does all of that, I wouldn't trust them to be able to pass the board exams and be able to handle the workload of medical school. So he should save the three years of his or her life and try to achieve a more realistic goal and not put him or her $100-150k more in debt trying.

My freshman GPA was 3.0. My sophomore GPA was 2.9. You would toss me overboard just on that? My junior and senior GPAs were both 3.7, my MCAT is 97th percentile, and my masters in bio GPA is 3.9. People can change, and some or even most medical schools recognize this. It is a shame that your school does not. You are throwing away alot of good candidates.

 

[Jalby]

Please stop trying to disguise your vitriol as "good advice." Where do you get the idea that the vast majority of people who get a 3.14 can't handle the work to be a doctor? You have no idea what people can and cannot handle and frankly it's not all to do with GPA. Also you're missing the point - no one is saying this kid is gonna get in with no problems with that GPA, we're suggesting he work to improve but that it's worth it not to give up.

Because i had the grades of the people in my glass and the class below me and the GPA was directly related on if they failed a course or failed out. Only one person who failed out or had to take summer repeat courses to stay on track came from the middle of the pack 3.3+ GPA people. If you cannot handle the competition in college and get in the top third or fourth of your school, you cannot handle the workload in medical school. It is that simple. And the OP has a 3.14 in non-science courses without taking O Chem or Biochem.

My freshman GPA was 3.0. My sophomore GPA was 2.9. You would toss me overboard just on that? My junior and senior GPAs were both 3.7, my MCAT is 97th percentile, and my masters in bio GPA is 3.9. People can change, and some or even most medical schools recognize this. It is a shame that your school does not. You are throwing away alot of good candidates.

Mine was 2.2, 2.3, 3.7, 3.8 (about). Those last two years were the hardest biochem and neuroscience classes. I ended up with a 3.27 (this number I am sure of). Both you and I proved we couldn't handle the work the last two years. Someone with a consistent 3.14 in a non-science major shows they can't.

Its not like medical schools are hurting for decent applicants.

 

[ChrisMack390]

Mine was 2.2, 2.3, 3.7, 3.8 (about). Those last two years were the hardest biochem and neuroscience classes. I ended up with a 3.27 (this number I am sure of). Both you and I proved we couldn't handle the work the last two years. Someone with a consistent 3.14 in a non-science major shows they can't.

Its not like medical schools are hurting for decent applicants.

So if you or I posted a topic after our sophomore years, your advice would have been to just quit. Instead we buckled down and improved ourselves.

Maybe OP will sign up for some post-bacc classes and get a bunch of Cs and that will be the end of it. But may they are a more mature person and a better student now, and they will get 4 semesters of consecutive A and B+ grades, just like we did.

 

[prettylittlebird]

Because i had the grades of the people in my glass and the class below me and the GPA was directly related on if they failed a course or failed out. Only one person who failed out or had to take summer repeat courses to stay on track came from the middle of the pack 3.3+ GPA people. If you cannot handle the competition in college and get in the top third or fourth of your school, you cannot handle the workload in medical school. It is that simple. And the OP has a 3.14 in non-science courses without taking O Chem or Biochem.



Mine was 2.2, 2.3, 3.7, 3.8 (about). Those last two years were the hardest biochem and neuroscience classes. I ended up with a 3.27 (this number I am sure of). Both you and I proved we couldn't handle the work the last two years. Someone with a consistent 3.14 in a non-science major shows they can't.

Its not like medical schools are hurting for decent applicants.

Right, it's super believable to me that you surveyed your whole class and the class below you and had all their respective GPAs because everyone just gives out that information (and then share whether or not they failed a course). You're not convincing anyone dude. It's just not as simple as "If you cannot handle the competition in college and get in the top third or fourth of your school, you cannot handle the workload in medical school." sorry. I'm definitely not denying that there are usually correlations between GPA and performance, that's been shown, but that doesn't mean that reinvention is impossible and there's nothing wrong with encouraging someone with a very salvageable GPA to attempt to improve before throwing in the towel.

 

[MareNostrummm]

Because i had the grades of the people in my glass and the class below me and the GPA was directly related on if they failed a course or failed out. Only one person who failed out or had to take summer repeat courses to stay on track came from the middle of the pack 3.3+ GPA people. If you cannot handle the competition in college and get in the top third or fourth of your school, you cannot handle the workload in medical school. It is that simple. And the OP has a 3.14 in non-science courses without taking O Chem or Biochem.



Mine was 2.2, 2.3, 3.7, 3.8 (about). Those last two years were the hardest biochem and neuroscience classes. I ended up with a 3.27 (this number I am sure of). Both you and I proved we couldn't handle the work the last two years. Someone with a consistent 3.14 in a non-science major shows they can't.

Its not like medical schools are hurting for decent applicants.

Why are you so negative and pessimistic.. Just because people do poorly in their first few years of undergrad does not mean they are incapable of handling a medical school curriculum post graduation Have you spoken to any 18-22 year olds lately? They tend to be very immature and prioritize socializing over hardcore premed studying. The pre-frontal cortex is not even fully developed at this point.

 

[Jalby]

Right, it's super believable to me that you surveyed your whole class and the class below you and had all their respective GPAs because everyone just gives out that information (and then share whether or not they failed a course). You're not convincing anyone dude.

Ehhh.... I have a pretty long history on SDN. Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean I'm lying. I got the data on everybody because I was on the scholarship committee at USC. And everybody who dropped out, failed, or repeated a year with one exception had GPA's around 3.3.

And you guys are pretending like he got the 3.14 in his first four years. He got it in ALL four years. 27th percentile. Sure, he could try hard and get to the 60th percentile in the post-bacc, but that still wouldn't be good enough to make it in medical school.

 

[Promethean]

Ehhh.... I have a pretty long history on SDN. Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean I'm lying. I got the data on everybody because I was on the scholarship committee at USC. And everybody who dropped out, failed, or repeated a year with one exception had GPA's around 3.3.

And you guys are pretending like he got the 3.14 in his first four years. He got it in ALL four years. 27th percentile. Sure, he could try hard and get to the 60th percentile in the post-bacc, but that still wouldn't be good enough to make it in medical school.

Man, I'm usually delighted to see one of your posts, but you couldn't be more off base about this.

3.14 isn't great. But it isn't unredeemable.

I came back from a 1.37 my freshman year. I gave up on school and worked at Starbucks for half a decade. Years later, I went back to school and managed to get up to a 3.3 and a 37 MCAT, which got me my first choice school in my first cycle.

Yes, I hear you, this guy has been a solid B student with a few As scattered throughout his education. Maybe he didn't know what was at stake and didn't put his all into classes. There is no reason to believe that he couldn't retake his lowest classes and get his GPA up. Or do a SMP or a do-it-himself post bacc at a local community college. If he wants it hard enough to work for it, DO schools are certainly not out of reach. That isn't blowing smoke up his rear. That is achievable.

Some people bloom late. It is pretty heinous to just shut someone down and tell them not to even try, based on just the information provided. I was waiting for you to reveal that you were just making a bad joke, and then give your real advice. There is enough discouragement for people in this world, and in academia. I am so deeply disappointed to find you handing it out here.

 

[MareNostrummm]

Man, I'm usually delighted to see one of your posts, but you couldn't be more off base about this.

3.14 isn't great. But it isn't unredeemable.

I came back from a 1.37 my freshman year. I gave up on school and worked at Starbucks for half a decade. Years later, I went back to school and managed to get up to a 3.3 and a 37 MCAT, which got me my first choice school in my first cycle.

Yes, I hear you, this guy has been a solid B student with a few As scattered throughout his education. Maybe he didn't know what was at stake and didn't put his all into classes. There is no reason to believe that he couldn't retake his lowest classes and get his GPA up. Or do a SMP or a do-it-himself post bacc at a local community college. If he wants it hard enough to work for it, DO schools are certainly not out of reach. That isn't blowing smoke up his rear. That is achievable.

Some people bloom late. It is pretty heinous to just shut someone down and tell them not to even try, based on just the information provided. I was waiting for you to reveal that you were just making a bad joke, and then give your real advice. There is enough discouragement for people in this world, and in academia. I am so deeply disappointed to find you handing it out here.

Sounds like he is bitter that people who didn't work as hard as him in undergrad have a second chance at becoming a doctor...

 

[prettylittlebird]

Ehhh.... I have a pretty long history on SDN. Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean I'm lying. I got the data on everybody because I was on the scholarship committee at USC. And everybody who dropped out, failed, or repeated a year with one exception had GPA's around 3.3.

And you guys are pretending like he got the 3.14 in his first four years. He got it in ALL four years. 27th percentile. Sure, he could try hard and get to the 60th percentile in the post-bacc, but that still wouldn't be good enough to make it in medical school.

Congratulations for having a long history on SDN but I hope you realize that doesn't automatically give you credibility. Ultimately it doesn't matter what you think. it matters that this kid and others who read this thread realize that it's not about your past mistakes. A lot can happen to affect a GPA and there are many examples of kids who are able to improve upon >3.0 GPAs and go on to do very well in medical school. Hopeful premeds shouldn't be shut down because of one negative hampering their application if it's something that can be fixed. No one is saying it won't require hard work and lots of effort and that not everyone will be able to actually make this kind of change, we're just saying that it's possible and good luck. It's sad that you can't do the same and speaks to some other issue you may be struggling with (perhaps some latent anger about not feeling justly rewarded for your own hard work as @MareNostrummm suggested).

 

[MareNostrummm]

Congratulations for having a long history on SDN but I hope you realize that doesn't automatically give you credibility. Ultimately it doesn't matter what you think. it matters that this kid and others who read this thread realize that it's not about your past mistakes. A lot can happen to affect a GPA and there are many examples of kids who are able to improve upon >3.0 GPAs and go on to do very well in medical school. Hopeful premeds shouldn't be shut down because of one negative hampering their application if it's something that can be fixed. No one is saying it won't require hard work and lots of effort and that not everyone will be able to actually make this kind of change, we're just saying that it's possible and good luck. It's sad that you can't do the same and speaks to some other issue you may be struggling with (perhaps some latent anger about not feeling justly rewarded for your own hard work as @MareNostrummm suggested).

Well said!

 

[Goro]

Teaching moment: some people at 27-28 are much different than they were at 18-21, or even 25.

I have tons of successful students who bombed all four years of undergrad; got thier **** together and did well in med school. This is we have SMPs and post-bac programs. There are a good number of MD schools that also reward reinvention.

 

[ChrisMack390]

@Jalby I have a 3.2 sGPA and have 4 acceptances, 2 wait lists, and am waiting on 6 other schools post interview (including 3-4 "top 20s" if you're into that).

I am literally the reason we shouldn't be telling this OP to pound sand. We should be telling them to work their ass off and get back on track.

 

[bigindian4891]

@Jalby and anyone other hopefuls reading this, I graduated with a 3.1 GPA. Im going to be a doctor.

Goro nailed it, am I the same student I was four years ago? Nope. Did I have to work hard and bust my butt in an SMP, retake and kill the MCAT? Yep. I found success from my failures, and that is going to make me resilient in both medical school and life. Don't give up on your dreams because some person on the internet told you to.

You should give up on being a doctor. There is no way a medical school would accept you with a 3.14 GPA. There is no way that you could get the 39 or so (old scores. like me, I'm old) to be able to even be considered for med school.

This is why people have a low opinion of SDN. A medical school did accept me with a 3.14 GPA (multiple in fact). I was able to get a score to be considered for med school. If I had listened to your advice, I wouldn't be going to medical school.

 

[Jalby]

Can someone get in with a 3.14 GPA?? Absolutely. It is likely or possible?? Not at all. I would put the chances of getting into a allopathic school at 1 in 2,000 and Osteo school at one in 500. Those odds are not in your favor at all. Could you get into a caribbean "School" where the only requirement is you can pay for it, sure.

Just because there are exceptional people who messed up in college and did amazing in post bac and then got into medical school does not mean you are exceptional. The cold hard facts is that the vast vast majority of people who are 27th percentile in college are actually at the position that their grades say they are. When I applied only 37% of people who applied to med school got in and those were exceptional people.

So my advice is the same as it was before. Take a realistic look at your chances and realize they are almost zero and find the next best thing you can do with your future life rather than wasting years of your life and tons of money and lost earnings.

 

[hubbsbubbs]

Jalby's perspective makes sense. It may have been extreme to tell someone to give up, but it's not the case that it will be an easy path, or even the best path for OP. While some schools may value reinvention, they probably see a lot of these applicantss. If OP is dead set on applying to medical school, then I would encourage him to do so but also highlight how much he is going to need to sacrifice to get there. It's not impossible, and it may be the case that many of you have beat the odds, but it's a tough game to be playing. My advice would be to ask yourself, how bad do you want it? And how much are you willing to give up to try? Time + money + opportunity = a chance.

 

[LizzyM]

Can someone get in with a 3.14 GPA?? Absolutely. It is likely or possible?? Not at all. I would put the chances of getting into a allopathic school at 1 in 2,000 and Osteo school at one in 500. Those odds are not in your favor at all. Could you get into a caribbean "School" where the only requirement is you can pay for it, sure.

Look at the data. AAMC table 24. For white applicants in the two years most recently reported, the figure was closer to 14% for those in the 2.80-3.19 categories combined and, of course it rises with GPA and could be as high as 16% given that 3.14 is pretty close to 3.19 the upper limit of that group. So I would not put the chances at 1 in 2000 but closer to 1 in 8 to be admitted to any allopathic med school in the US. That's not to say that the 3.14 couldn't use some additional work to gain admission but it is not as dire as you make it out to be.

 

[NecrotizingFasciitis]

Hey OP,

I decided to pursue medicine when I had ~2.40 gpa after two years of college. I've had a 3.9+ for about two years now (all upper-level science classes, and a couple retakes), scored a balanced 505 on my MCAT (not ridiculous, but respectable) and was invited to interview at 11 medical schools so far this cycle (DO). When I first switched to pre-med, there were students I had in my introductory chemistry classes that looked down on me for being dumb instead of trying to help me through my struggle. Funny story, I ended up tutoring two of them in Immunology a couple years later!

The only person who can stop you from doing what you want to do is you.

I was told by a professor my first year of pre-med to pursue physical education instead of medicine, and told by my academic adviser to quit pre-med while I was making my transition. Did it hurt? Yep. Was it demoralizing? You bet! I felt like a degenerate. But now they respect me in the way they should have from the start (as a potential/future medical student and a serious pre-med student.)

My point is, you will run into people who will tell you you can't do it the entire time you are fighting for what you want, but if you truly want to be a doctor and have the willpower to bear-down and study your a** off, you can make it (whether you desire a DO or an MD.)

That being said, the issues being raised in previous comments are very real... do you think you are committed/driven enough to build a solid story of reinvention (A's from now on, solid MCAT, clinical/shadowing experience, maybe some research, etc.) that you will one day convince medical schools to admit you?

 

[Goro]

People with numbers like these are either legacies, or have reinvented themselves by post-bacm SMP, or a massive rising GPA trend, which won't be enough to salvage the cGPA, but will still convince Adcoms that the applicants can handle med school.

Look at the data. AAMC table 24. For white applicants in the two years most recently reported, the figure was closer to 14% for those in the 2.80-3.19 categories combined and, of course it rises with GPA and could be as high as 16% given that 3.14 is pretty close to 3.19 the upper limit of that group. So I would not put the chances at 1 in 2000 but closer to 1 in 8 to be admitted to any allopathic med school in the US. That's not to say that the 3.14 needs some additional work to gain admission but it is not as dire as you make it out to be.

 

[AirplaneFruit]

What school is this and how did you not know about it?

Was it Cornell or Dartmouth?