Am I screwed for ever???? Help Please!!!!

[MedAdComMD]

1) Can you please give me some specific ideas on what I can do to overrule the Dean?? All it says is," I can Re-APPEAL if I can come up with any NEW EVIDENCE". I gave them the appeal application, a rec from one of my teachers, my letter of explanation and police record of arrest. It didn't even ask for a rec letter.

2) Attorney explained, when it says "sealed" in records it doesn't necessarily mean a sealed "conviction". In his words " if someone is arrested on a suspicion and then dropped, it creates a record that needs to be sealed". After Judges decision, we will figure out what all to explain and how.

3) On UW website it shows how they calculate your weighted GPA. If I rem -- its1/3 freshman , 1/2 of the sopho and 3/4 of junior-- No mention of senior or thereafter. We will see. Do you have any specific school to recommend?

Each school have different processes and formulas - I do not know any of them except for my own. At Temple, back in 2007, it was your (cGPA + sGPA + MCAT)/3. I don't know if they do that anymore.

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[jdasi]

Each school have different processes and formulas - I do not know any of them except for my own. At Temple, back in 2007, it was your (cGPA + sGPA + MCAT)/3. I don't know if they do that anymore.

Can you please give some suggestions on how to overrule the Dean or get the Dean to reconsider? How can I be aggressive about it?

 

[MedAdComMD]

Can you please give some suggestions on how to overrule the Dean or get the Dean to reconsider? How can I be aggressive about it?

Each school is different, and I am not familiar with the system in your school.

I can tell you at my university, there are different levels of appeals. After the department/dean, you can appeal to the senate, then the special committee on student standing, and finally there is always the campus legal service. The dean is just one person, usually a "final decision" is made by a committee.

Your best course of action is to retain a "peer advisor/advocate" and have them instruct you on your next step.

 

[jdasi]

Each school is different, and I am not familiar with the system in your school.

I can tell you at my university, there are different levels of appeals. After the department/dean, you can appeal to the senate, then the special committee on student standing, and finally there is always the campus legal service. The dean is just one person, usually a "final decision" is made by a committee.

Your best course of action is to retain a "peer advisor/advocate" and have them instruct you on your next step.

Thanks. I don't even know if there is any such thing in my school. It seems it was decided by a "committee" unanimously. I just got told by someone at the dean's office . I will try to find more.

Do you think an SMP will help me re my GPA? However. I have done a lot of med school type classes-- immunology, molecular neurobiology, Pharmacology, Molecular biology of cance, I am a biochem major and will have physics math and biology minors.

 

[jdasi]

You'll need to get a copy of the MSAR and look for schools that have a bottom tenth percentile for cGPA of 3.3 or less (Nevada and Utah are probably among them), then check the OOS matriculation rate to see if it's worth applying there.

Every school has a different formula/system with which they assess an applicant. Most schools won't tell you what the formula is. Some give less weight to freshman year grades. Some have automatic cutoffs. Some look at MCAT subscores and some don't. That's why applying broadly is essential. As an example, Oklahoma uses this formula to decide who gets interviews: [cGPA X (3.75 + MCAT score/3)]/2. I've read you need a 12 to be in the first round of interviews.

Do you think an SMP will help re my GPA? I have done a lot of med school type classes-- immunology, molecular neurobiology, Pharmacology, Molecular biology of cancer, I am a biochem major and will have physics and math, maybe even biology minors.

 

[MedAdComMD]

With an upward trend, its not necessary to do an SMP in your case IF you have an excellent MCAT score.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Oklahoma uses this formula to decide who gets interviews: [cGPA X (3.75 + MCAT score/3)]/2. I've read you need a 12 to be in the first round of interviews.

Are you sure about that? I put (2.0 x (3.75+25/3))/2 and got 12.08?

 

[Catalystik]

Are you sure about that? I put (2.0 x (3.75+25/3))/2 and got 12.08?

Oops. Thanks for checking it. I got the parentheses wrong. It works with [(cGPA X 3.75) + MCAT/3]/2 which gives you a ~7.9.

 

[Catalystik]

Do you think an SMP will help re my GPA?

Excellent performance in an SMP would override your low cGPA. MedAdComMD is right though.

 

[jdasi]

With an upward trend, its not necessary to do an SMP in your case IF you have an excellent MCAT score.

This semester didn't turn out good. had a new teacher teaching linear algebra-- highest grade is a B( math major student), got C+. Another Quantum Physics --B. I don't know what this will do . A in microbio, A-in molecular bio of cancer. Just took on more than I should have , along with MCAT and research.

 

[jdasi]

Oops. Thanks for checking it. I got the parentheses wrong. It works with [(cGPA X 3.75) + MCAT/3]/2 which gives you a ~7.9.

I get 12.5 with this calculation at this point.

 

[jdasi]

Excellent performance in an SMP would override your low cGPA. MedAdComMD is right though.

So, with legal stuff sealed, this MCAT, and an excellent performance in SMP-- do you think I could have a decent chance for one of the top tier schools?

 

[MedAdComMD]

So, with legal stuff sealed, this MCAT, and an excellent performance in SMP-- do you think I could have a decent chance for one of the top tier schools?

Your issue is truly unique, and no one can probably speak from experience. If my school had seen a SEALED record upon background check, this would be a yellow (instead of red) flag. Whether or not this yellow flag will prevent your acceptance - no one can predict.

If you have a high GPA trend, SMP isn't necessary - in that its not worth the 60K cost.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Your issue is truly unique, and no one can probably speak from experience. If my school had seen a SEALED record upon background check, this would be a yellow (instead of red) flag. Whether or not this yellow flag will prevent your acceptance - no one can predict.

If you have a high GPA trend, SMP isn't necessary - in that its not worth the 60K cost.

Wouldn't your school see this yellow flag after he got accepted? Per AMCAS instructions, he/she can write "no" when it comes to criminal record. Criminal record will then be ran once he/she has been accepted.

 

[Catalystik]

This semester didn't turn out good. had a new teacher teaching linear algebra-- highest grade is a B( math major student), got C+. Another Quantum Physics --B. I don't know what this will do . A in microbio, A-in molecular bio of cancer. Just took on more than I should have , along with MCAT and research.

So, with legal stuff sealed, this MCAT, and an excellent performance in SMP-- do you think I could have a decent chance for one of the top tier schools?

Another downward grade trend doesn't bode well for this outcome.

 

[jdasi]

Another downward grade trend doesn't bode well for this outcome.

Will it still go against me even though these were classes most prospective med students don't even consider taking? I have many 400s classes in all sciences and math with all As except this semester.

 

[physicsnerd42]

I think the main problem is that you may not be able to get a medical license, even if you do graduate from medical school (see this thread and this one). From my understanding, even if your record is sealed/expunged, you typically must disclose your criminal background to the state licensing board and they may not give you a license. There was a thread (now deleted) of someone who lost the residency spot he matched into because the program found out about an expunged conviction that he didn't tell them about on his app.

Is it really worth it to go through the time and expense of medical school if you may not be able to practice medicine?

 

[Catalystik]

Will it still go against me even though these were classes most prospective med students don't even consider taking? I have many 400s classes in all sciences and math with all As except this semester.

Unfortunately, yes. At this point in your education, you'd be expected to have a good sense of time management and an ability to judge what you can handle.

As a rule of thumb, one should never apply with a downward grade trend. The fix is another year of great grades to demonstrate consistency of performance (an SMP would do it), but a top tier MD school acceptance is unlikely to be in your future.

 

[jdasi]

I think the main problem is that you may not be able to get a medical license, even if you do graduate from medical school (see this thread and this one). From my understanding, even if your record is sealed/expunged, you typically must disclose your criminal background to the state licensing board and they may not give you a license. There was a thread (now deleted) of someone who lost the residency spot he matched into because the program found out about an expunged conviction that he didn't tell them about on his app.

Is it really worth it to go through the time and expense of medical school if you may not be able to practice medicine?

Thanks for your info. I wasn't planning to lie or hold back any info. I was planning to disclose it in secondaries. The catch for me is that the conviction is NOT a drug conviction , the arrest was. Its a generic felony, no crime mentioned. I don't know if it changes anything. My attorney says once its all over, he will help me write all applications and make sure I could not be accused of dishonesty.

 

[MedAdComMD]

Thanks for your info. I wasn't planning to lie or hold back any info. I was planning to disclose it in secondaries. The catch for me is that the conviction is NOT a drug conviction , the arrest was. Its a generic felony, no crime mentioned. I don't know if it changes anything. My attorney says once its all over, he will help me write all applications and make sure I could not be accused of dishonesty.

You are now just asking us to give you an answer that you want to hear - that this felony will not affect your admission chances. The fact, as explained by multiple adcoms in this thread, is that no one knows for certain. But, from our experience, this would raise a flag, not necessarily a red flag, but a flag.

Would you feel comfortable buying a house that has had "major repairs" - but not disclosing what those repairs are? Put your feet in someone else's shoes. Would you date a gal with a sealed felony?

 

[jdasi]

You are now just asking us to give you an answer that you want to hear - that this felony will not affect your admission chances. The fact, as explained by multiple adcoms in this thread, is that no one knows for certain. But, from our experience, this would raise a flag, not necessarily a red flag, but a flag.

Would you feel comfortable buying a house that has had "major repairs" - but not disclosing what those repairs are? Put your feet in someone else's shoes. Would you date a gal with a sealed felony?

I am sorry, it came across wrong. I know it will affect my chances greatly. That was only in response to those threads physicsnerd42 had mentioned. There were posts there that had specified drug convictions (and not arrests). I know I probably don't have much of a chance. Its only possible if someone can give me a chance to explain and look at me as a remodeled and not a repaired house. I also know that what I did was what a lot of others did, just that I got caught. I know of doctors, mature adults who have had their licenses suspended , one of them X3 in 1 year and get reinstated for abusing their office narcotics. If someone can look at me as an immature 21 yr old when this happened who has grown up since, perhaps someone's own kid that slipped at a vulnerable part of their life.... That's my ONLY chance. I have not been hopeful that my dream will come true and have worked against all odds to get where i am. That's also part of the reason why this semester didn't go that well--- for a while I didn't see any point.....Well thanks for all your time and effort in replying to me. Lets just wait and see.

 

[jdasi]

Hi, I desperately need a huge and urgent favor.

Please will one of the MDs be willing to attest that even though AMCAS application says criminal record will not be an automatic disqualification, in their experience, it will essentially disqualify a candidate, if not sealed or expunged ------------- WITH THEIR CREDENTIALS.

I need this so my attorney can counter prosecutions argument that I don't need it sealed because it is not an automatic disqualification.

THIS IS WHAT MY FUTURE HINGES ON.

ADDITIONALLY-- I NEED IT BY TOMORROW.

ANYONE WILLING, PLEASE SEND ME A PRIVATE MESSAGE, I CAN GIVE YOU
THE FAX NUMBER FOR MY ATTORNEY.

I have talked to schools and everyone says don't apply if you have to answer yes on the application but no one is willing to take just my word for it.

I will be eternally grateful.

Sincerely
Jdasi

 

[TriagePreMed]

Too bad I'm not an MD/ADCOM. I would sign that for you in a heartbeat. I love any opportunity to stick it to some ******* prosecutor.

 

[shinbeats]

Hi, I desperately need a huge and urgent favor.

Please will one of the MDs be willing to attest that even though AMCAS application says criminal record will not be an automatic disqualification, in their experience, it will essentially disqualify a candidate, if not sealed or expunged ------------- WITH THEIR CREDENTIALS.

I need this so my attorney can counter prosecutions argument that I don't need it sealed because it is not an automatic disqualification.

THIS IS WHAT MY FUTURE HINGES ON.

ADDITIONALLY-- I NEED IT BY TOMORROW.

ANYONE WILLING, PLEASE SEND ME A PRIVATE MESSAGE, I CAN GIVE YOU
THE FAX NUMBER FOR MY ATTORNEY.

I have talked to schools and everyone says don't apply if you have to answer yes on the application but no one is willing to take just my word for it.

I will be eternally grateful.

Sincerely
Jdasi

Talk to Catalystic?

 

[jdasi]

Talk to Catalystic?

I don't know how . He doesn't take private messages. I was hoping he will see on the forum . I will try to post it again under his responses and see. If anyone knows how to get to talk to him, please let me know.

My attorney wants it by tomorrow but the actual hearing is on morning of the 8th.

 

[TriagePreMed]

I don't know how . He doesn't take private messages. I was hoping he will see on the forum . I will try to post it again under his responses and see. If anyone knows how to get to talk to him, please let me know.

My attorney wants it by tomorrow but the actual hearing is on morning of the 8th.

FYI Catalystik is a she.

 

[jdasi]

FYI Catalystik is a she.

Oops!!!!

 

[jdasi]

Catalystik,


I understand this is quite a huge favor, and short notice, but would you be willing to attest that even though the AMCAS application says a criminal record will not be an automatic disqualification, it will, for practical purposes, disqualify a candidate if not sealed or expunged prior to application? I have a hearing Thursday (September 8th) morning to appeal my case, and my attorney has asked that I try to get a credible source to help counter the state's argument that I don't need the conviction sealed or expunged, because it is not an "automatic disqualification."

As you mentioned, my admission is unlikely if not impossible with an active felony, and I believe my judge will agree if I can show that an advisor and physician, such as yourself, has been willing to submit a short paragraph to this effect. I have spoken anonymously to several medical schools, and they have all-but-said that my application will be denied under the current circumstances. In court, though, my word will be dismissed as hearsay. Unfortunately, I only have today to try and obtain and submit some letters, and if you would be willing to help me out in any way, I would greatly appreciate it!

 

[flodhi1]

Catalystik,


I understand this is quite a huge favor, and short notice, but would you be willing to attest that even though the AMCAS application says a criminal record will not be an automatic disqualification, it will, for practical purposes, disqualify a candidate if not sealed or expunged prior to application? I have a hearing Thursday (September 8th) morning to appeal my case, and my attorney has asked that I try to get a credible source to help counter the state's argument that I don't need the conviction sealed or expunged, because it is not an "automatic disqualification."

As you mentioned, my admission is unlikely if not impossible with an active felony, and I believe my judge will agree if I can show that an advisor and physician, such as yourself, has been willing to submit a short paragraph to this effect. I have spoken anonymously to several medical schools, and they have all-but-said that my application will be denied under the current circumstances. In court, though, my word will be dismissed as hearsay. Unfortunately, I only have today to try and obtain and submit some letters, and if you would be willing to help me out in any way, I would greatly appreciate it!

Maybe make a new thread with Catalystik's name? lol

 

[TriagePreMed]

Maybe make a new thread with Catalystik's name? lol

Can't call out people like that. It's in the rules.

I'm not commenting about Catalystik, but I really doubt jdasi will find anyone. He needs not only a physician but one that has been in admissions. I doubt they can so officially announce what he asks without them having some problem with their admission's home institution for breaking that technicality that you can get admitted with a record. It's too iffy in my opinion. Worth a try. Wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[TriagePreMed]

I wanted to add one last thing: do not kid yourself. You're dealing with attorneys here. All of them are attorneys. My friend was in admissions at USC law. He said a DUI was a huge black mark. Anything considered "worse" than that and it was a death sentence. From the prosecutor to the judge, they all know it's bull**** to say it isn't, for practical purposes, something that will disqualify you.

 

[Catalystik]

Hi, I desperately need a huge and urgent favor.

Please will one of the MDs be willing to attest that even though AMCAS application says criminal record will not be an automatic disqualification, in their experience, it will essentially disqualify a candidate, if not sealed or expunged ------------- WITH THEIR CREDENTIALS.

I need this so my attorney can counter prosecutions argument that I don't need it sealed because it is not an automatic disqualification.

THIS IS WHAT MY FUTURE HINGES ON.

ADDITIONALLY-- I NEED IT BY TOMORROW.

Catalystik,


I understand this is quite a huge favor, and short notice, but would you be willing to attest that even though the AMCAS application says a criminal record will not be an automatic disqualification, it will, for practical purposes, disqualify a candidate if not sealed or expunged prior to application? I have a hearing Thursday (September 8th) morning to appeal my case, and my attorney has asked that I try to get a credible source to help counter the state's argument that I don't need the conviction sealed or expunged, because it is not an "automatic disqualification."

As you mentioned, my admission is unlikely if not impossible with an active felony, and I believe my judge will agree if I can show that an advisor and physician, such as yourself, has been willing to submit a short paragraph to this effect. I have spoken anonymously to several medical schools, and they have all-but-said that my application will be denied under the current circumstances. In court, though, my word will be dismissed as hearsay. Unfortunately, I only have today to try and obtain and submit some letters, and if you would be willing to help me out in any way, I would greatly appreciate it!

If you feel that a random physician's opinion would be given weight by a court, then you'd be just as well off asking your own doctor for such a letter.

A more useful choice would be a publically-known figure, with a reputation for having the required expertise. You might consider a non-anonymous, medical school application counselor to whom you can reveal all the details of your situation, which you have not felt able to do here. Such a business contact can be made by phone or on-line.

Even for such a person, a one-day timeframe to review your old documents, provide a witnessed declaration, and submit proof of identity is not a reasonable expectation (even if they have no other work to get done).

And just as a friendly reminder, your appeal is a violation of the SDN Terms of Service to which you agreed at: http://www.studentdoctor.net/online-service-agreement/

members are not permitted to solicit personally identifiable information from other members . . .

Good Luck.

 

[jdasi]

If you feel that a random physician's opinion would be given weight by a court, then you'd be just as well off asking your own doctor for such a letter.

A more useful choice would be a publically-known figure, with a reputation for having the required expertise. You might consider a non-anonymous, medical school application counselor to whom you can reveal all the details of your situation, which you have not felt able to do here. Such a business contact can be made by phone or on-line.


Even for such a person, a one-day timeframe to review your old documents, provide a witnessed declaration, and submit proof of identity is not a reasonable expectation (even if they have no other work to get done).
And just as a friendly reminder, your appeal is a violation of the SDN
TermsofService to which you agreed at:
http://www.studentdoctor.net/online-service-agreement/
Good Luck.

I am so sorry. The attorney suggested a direct fax to his office with the condition of nothing being revealed to me, would not violate
the terms. , if someone was willing. Apologies again.

Just to clarify, I was not asking for a statement specifically in relation to me but just a general one stating that in (someone's)experience a candidate
with an open record had no real chance of acceptance even though Amcas
application says it is not an automatic disqualification. Someone who is an
MD and has Adcom experience. None here or that I know.

The reason for such short notice --the prosecution submitted an affidavit to
deny the seal for reasons I explained, day before yesterday.

Lastly, I really have discussed all that there is to my situation on this forum.

Sorry, I didn't mean to violate any rules

 

[MedAdComMD]

I am so sorry. The attorney suggested a direct fax to his office with the condition of nothing being revealed to me, would not violate
the terms. , if someone was willing. Apologies again.

Just to clarify, I was not asking for a statement specifically in relation to me but just a general one stating that in (someone's)experience a candidate
with an open record had no real chance of acceptance even though Amcas
application says it is not an automatic disqualification. Someone who is an
MD and has Adcom experience. None here or that I know.

The reason for such short notice --the prosecution submitted an affidavit to
deny the seal for reasons I explained, day before yesterday.

Lastly, I really have discussed all that there is to my situation on this forum.

Sorry, I didn't mean to violate any rules

The issue is that what you want us to write is not really true - please go back and read my previous post in this thread. We tell you the felony MAY prevent you from getting into medicine, but in reality this would be an obstacle, not a dealbreaker. It simply wouldn't be true if we fax a letter saying having a felony will prevent you getting an admission. We look at all aspects of the candidate, and if you excel and stand out in other areas, you could theoretically get admitted.

 

[TriagePreMed]

You heard it from the horses' mouth, jdasi. While you're correct that it's pretty much a death sentence, no adcom will do what you ask. Why? You're making them basically say that AMCAS/their school is lying, which means their job can be on the line.

It's sad really that your expungment is going to revolve around this issue. Your attorney should have been smarter to word it about, not only professional school, but about any job in general.

 

[jdasi]

You heard it from the horses' mouth, jdasi. While you're correct that it's pretty much a death sentence, no adcom will do what you ask. Why? You're making them basically say that AMCAS/their school is lying, which means their job can be on the line.

It's sad really that your expungment is going to revolve around this issue. Your attorney should have been smarter to word it about, not only professional school, but about any job in general.

I hope I didn't offend anyone and I certainly don't want to lie or ask anyone else to. I didn't think I was asking for definite "NO chance " but "extremely unlikely". Anyway, thanks for all your time. I just have to wait to find out tomorrow. Perhaps my professor's letter will suffice. As you said, they all know exactly what it would mean. Thanks

 

[Morsetlis]

Remember that your MCAT scores have a 3 years expiration to be considered by most schools.

 

[MedAdComMD]

Any updates Jdasi? Was your petition successful?

 

[jdasi]

If you feel that a random physician's opinion would be given weight by a court, then you'd be just as well off asking your own doctor for such a letter.

A more useful choice would be a publically-known figure, with a reputation for having the required expertise. You might consider a non-anonymous, medical school application counselor to whom you can reveal all the details of your situation, which you have not felt able to do here. Such a business contact can be made by phone or on-line.

Even for such a person, a one-day timeframe to review your old documents, provide a witnessed declaration, and submit proof of identity is not a reasonable expectation (even if they have no other work to get done).

And just as a friendly reminder, your appeal is a violation of the SDN Terms of Service to which you agreed at: http://www.studentdoctor.net/online-service-agreement/


Good Luck.

My apologies again for not realizing that I was breaking the forum rules last time.

Just an update: My petition was granted, it will all be sealed. I am not planning to apply this year anyway, its pretty late. I will try my best to have this last semester end with a 4.0. Any ideas on what to do next 6 mos to make my application the best it can be?
Thanks

 

[TriagePreMed]

My apologies again for not realizing that I was breaking the forum rules last time.

Just an update: My petition was granted, it will all be sealed. I am not planning to apply this year anyway, its pretty late. I will try my best to have this last semester end with a 4.0. Any ideas on what to do next 6 mos to make my application the best it can be?
Thanks

Congratulations. I hope that you make this best off this second chance.

 

[jdasi]

Congratulations. I hope that you make this best off this second chance.

Thanks! I will give it my best shot. Now I just hope some school will me a chance too

 

[jdasi]

[deleted]