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He has a different and more mature perspective on everything.....
Am I smart enough for med school?
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He has a different and more mature perspective on everything.....
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He seems to believe that having to work long hours is the hallmark of effort. Similarly, this is why I always tip the parking lot attendant on Ramadan.
I've heard about this actuarial business before... usually via trolls here on SDN. Never took it seriously. I'll take a look
I've heard about this actuarial business before... usually via trolls here on SDN. Never took it seriously. I'll take a look
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The thing that nuel seems to miss is that nobody is denying that it takes talent to design good experiments and to break ground in science. But that doesn't make it difficult.... those things he keeps citing are indeed impressive but are completely irrelevant to the point that it takes more time and energy to complete a BS I'm physics than it does an MD. That is BS *rim shot* PhDs are a different animal from med as well. My GF works long hours too. Goes in late to set new experiments up. Whatever. Read a lot of papers for comps..... thing is...
Her paper stack for comps was still smaller than one semesters notes for me. Her time input to studying didn't match mine until she got to comps. And on top of that even though she is on campus longer than I am, I continue to study now and she comes home and watches "The Voice" after her 12 hour day in the lab
Here's the thing: nothing in my post suggests that I believe my poo don't stink. Saying someone doesn't put as much effort into something as another is not an insult. But that seems to be how you interpret it......
Her paper stack for comps was still smaller than one semesters notes for me. Her time input to studying didn't match mine until she got to comps. And on top of that even though she is on campus longer than I am, I continue to study now and she comes home and watches "The Voice" after her 12 hour day in the lab
Here's the thing: nothing in my post suggests that I believe my poo don't stink. Saying someone doesn't put as much effort into something as another is not an insult. But that seems to be how you interpret it......
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You're joking right? Most of those guys are AF pilots. Lots of training. Not a lot of studying
On that note, navy seal training is a hell of a lot harder than anything I will ever do. Its just important to note where the difficulty comes from when making a comparison.
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Fact.
Not a med student, but I can side with Nuel in the sense that I do believe that some bachelor's degrees can be made more difficult than med school. One of my friends graduated with a 4.1 in an electric engineering/computer science double major. He would frequently take 7 or 8 classes a semester, while doing research on the side (he had several publications by the time he graduated). He is now at MIT working on his PhD, and so far has told me he thinks it's easier than undergrad.
What do you think would be more difficult? Taking 7 or 8 classes a term + research with the expectation of getting straight A's and publications, or getting straight P's in med school?
What do you think would be more difficult? Taking 7 or 8 classes a term + research with the expectation of getting straight A's and publications, or getting straight P's in med school?
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I think the only limits we have are the ones we put on ourselves. I have been going through a lot of doubts the last couple of weeks, so I have definitely been in the same place- questioning if I have what it takes. But I believe it all depends on how much you want it and how hard you are prepared to work. Just do your best to put yourself in the best position and hope for the pest.
Just squash those doubtful thoughts and remember what initially pushed you in this direction.
Best of luck!
Just squash those doubtful thoughts and remember what initially pushed you in this direction.
Best of luck!
K
kpcrew
No one forced him into that schedule and it's probably harder to get all honors in med school than it is to get straight As. Then again, your comparison is moot since you haven't done either thing so you can't really compare them.
I believe that, although no one is "forcing" you to honors every course either. All I was saying was that I agree with Nuel that some bachelor's degrees can be made out to be harder than medical school, then proceeded to give an example. You know that you worked hard in undergrad when getting a PhD in Computer Science from MIT is considered easier. I would put money on the fact that most med students would have difficulty replicating what he did, regardless how hard they would have worked. The whole "getting into MIT for a PhD in CS" should be a hint that what he achieved wasn't an ordinary achievement. But then again, we are talking about a case that is an extreme outlier. For the vast majority of people, no doubt in my mind medical school is harder than undergrad.
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So when I said med school was more intense due to volume, your counter is "well if you add more volume something else will be harder"
Simply staggering.
Once you get to know some grad students you will see that the lifestyle is pretty laid back. MIT isn't automatically difficult and grad programs aren't ranked by how hard they make you work but by the caliber of the work produced.
Basically I'm just saying you have no basis for your opinion here
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SpecterGT is spot on. Disclaimer here, I have no experience with anything grad-school-related. And some undergrad majors are more difficult than others, this is true. But my most rigorous schedule in undergrad was as a post-bacc, when I took gen chem, gen bio, and physics in the same year. People who hadn't been to med school yet told me it was going to be rough. At times, I thought it was too. Well, I now think back on those days and laugh at myself. As an example, I took a semester of molecular and cellular biology as a post-bacc. Just looked at my schedule for the next block in med school and we are learning that amount of material in two weeks.
I'm in anatomy right now, and the most difficult thing to get my mind around is that I physically cannot learn everything I am supposed to. There is no such thing as "being ready for an exam". You either learn enough of the material to pass, or you don't. Sometimes people learn enough to honor, but rarely. If they do, they probably a) aren't doing anything but studying (and I mean anything), or b) already took a graduate-level anatomy course and have learned this material before over a semester or a year. You don't have time to think about what you learned after you take an exam, because the next day you must start studying for the next one. If I take a day off from studying, I am noticeably behind.
This is what makes med school hard; I doubt anyone will argue that it is intellectually all that difficult. It's just plain exhausting.
I'm in anatomy right now, and the most difficult thing to get my mind around is that I physically cannot learn everything I am supposed to. There is no such thing as "being ready for an exam". You either learn enough of the material to pass, or you don't. Sometimes people learn enough to honor, but rarely. If they do, they probably a) aren't doing anything but studying (and I mean anything), or b) already took a graduate-level anatomy course and have learned this material before over a semester or a year. You don't have time to think about what you learned after you take an exam, because the next day you must start studying for the next one. If I take a day off from studying, I am noticeably behind.
This is what makes med school hard; I doubt anyone will argue that it is intellectually all that difficult. It's just plain exhausting.
I didn't create that message with the intention to "counter" your post. However, now that you have brought up the point of "volume", I would like to bring up certain points.So when I said med school was more intense due to volume, your counter is "well if you add more volume something else will be harder"
Simply staggering.
Once you get to know some grad students you will see that the lifestyle is pretty laid back. MIT isn't automatically difficult and grad programs aren't ranked by how hard they make you work but by the caliber of the work produced.
Basically I'm just saying you have no basis for your opinion here
1. You responded to Nuel with this quote:
"You haven't really said what your background is.... working long hours sucks. It isnt 'difficult'. People with minimal passing grades on their GED work long hours. This is all I am trying to get across to you in your point."
Yet, you propose your argument that difficulty is directly proportional to hours put in. Please stay consistent.
2. "But let's remember that you compared a BS to an MD a little bit ago.... a statement that only even seems good on paper, despite its otherwise complete absurdity, when you only take into account complexity."
So with this argument you attempt to attack the notion that difficulty = complexity, yet earlier you said that "working long hours isn't 'difficult'." So what is "difficult" to you? Obviously "working longs hours" isn't difficult, and "complexity" isn't difficult. So what is? Enlighten me.
3. "So when I said med school was more intense due to volume, your counter is 'well if you add more volume something else will be harder'."
Where did I say that if you "add volume something else will be harder"? Really, where on earth do you ascertain that this was the thesis of my argument? All I did was bring up one example of a friend who completed an undergraduate degree (also at a top 5 school) with a 4.1 in a difficult field of study (conceptually), with multiple publications. And yet you rely on the argument that "I am adding volume". Yeah, he took 7 or 8 classes a semester (~24 credits at our undergraduate institution). Yet, osteopathic medical students seem to find this number equivalent to their workload (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=602349). So am I really "adding more volume"?
4. "Also there is not a single educational program in existence that requires more effort in studying than medicine."
Maybe, for certain people. I'm sure Albert Einstein and Isaac Newton are laughing in their graves, since most of the concepts you learn are based on their discoveries and hard work. Maybe this isn't enough "effort" for you? (http://www.thestar.com/news/world/a...dge-uploads-genius-s-college-notebooks-to-web).
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At least you are able to admit these things are above your head
. I can see why you consider UG so tough.Your interpretations of my arguments are all wrong
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Ok, off my phone so now I can actually type. Let's address these things here, shall we?
I said the difficulty is proportional to "effort" See also:
So.... aside from what "the voices" told you I was saying.... where did I say that hours equated to difficulty? True, it will usually take a longer time to complete something with greater volume, but aaahhhhhh now we have stumbled into another facet of what makes med curriculum difficult. There isn't extra time. I don't have the luxury of taking 2-3 extra years to complete my doctorate as about 80% of PhD candidates do. 4 years is not the norm for graduation with PhD in the hard sciences any more.
Lift 400lbs - ok well how?
incrementally, 10 lbs at a time over 2 months - well now that isn't so bad
DO IT NAOW! and do it via kegel exercises! - well.... I'm out
This is why hours do not equal difficulty. They may equal "suckiness", but it is not difficult to sit in a booth for 10 hours straight.... only boring.
what you said was:
1) this basically means you have no basis for comparison. I had heavy semesters and and I had light semesters in UG. I got A's with minimal effort input. I am putting in at least 4x the effort now and at times that is still only good enough for a P
2) double major.... double.... DOUBLE. Not "A hard major" but two hard majors. He is going to get two degrees. 1 < 2. 2> 1. i.e. your friend has added "volume" to his study and this was the mechanism by which you defended the claim that an UG degree can be more difficult than a med degree. What you actually said was "Many simultaneous UG degrees can be more difficult than a med degree". No argument there
but hey, since when has it been profound to state "if you add volume to something it becomes more volumous than something that used to have more volume!"
This is the single dumbest thing I have ever heard. I'm sorry..... the other guy said it as well. Einstein and Newton were not handed BS in physics for their discoveries along with a square hat and a complementary pic with "mom". That is what you are comparing the BS to now.... and that is completely insane. All taught knowledge built upon the knowledge before it, but the scope of the knowledge imparted in a BS simply does not require the effort it took for those other guys to do the things that they did.
Have you ever tried to re-derive einsteins equations? I have..... it took me a long friggin time even though all of the concepts that were extracted from the equations are very familiar to me. Simply not the same and you should feel bad for suggesting it
See, here is your problem. You didn't read. Don't feel bad. It happens to many people.
I said the difficulty is proportional to "effort" See also:
My GF works long hours too. Goes in late to set new experiments up. Whatever. Read a lot of papers for comps..... thing is...
Her paper stack for comps was still smaller than one semesters notes for me. Her time input to studying didn't match mine until she got to comps. And on top of that even though she is on campus longer than I am, I continue to study now and she comes home and watches "The Voice" after her 12 hour day in the lab
So.... aside from what "the voices" told you I was saying.... where did I say that hours equated to difficulty? True, it will usually take a longer time to complete something with greater volume, but aaahhhhhh
now we have stumbled into another facet of what makes med curriculum difficult. There isn't extra time. I don't have the luxury of taking 2-3 extra years to complete my doctorate as about 80% of PhD candidates do. 4 years is not the norm for graduation with PhD in the hard sciences any more. Hopefully by illuminating your reading failure earlier we have addressed this point. But just to reiterate: difficulty is a combination of complexity, load, and time constraints. Basically the energy expenditure on the task.
Lift 400lbs - ok well how?
incrementally, 10 lbs at a time over 2 months - well now that isn't so bad
DO IT NAOW! and do it via kegel exercises! - well.... I'm out
This is why hours do not equal difficulty. They may equal "suckiness", but it is not difficult to sit in a booth for 10 hours straight.... only boring.
I would be oh so glad to help you here my good chum! since we have already identified your reading comprehension issues, it is of little surprise you find yourself confused. I would have said "no" because I assumed you could at least follow yourself, but I am not here to pass judgement
what you said was:
1) this basically means you have no basis for comparison. I had heavy semesters and and I had light semesters in UG. I got A's with minimal effort input. I am putting in at least 4x the effort now and at times that is still only good enough for a P
2) double major.... double.... DOUBLE. Not "A hard major" but two hard majors. He is going to get two degrees. 1 < 2. 2> 1. i.e. your friend has added "volume" to his study and this was the mechanism by which you defended the claim that an UG degree can be more difficult than a med degree. What you actually said was "Many simultaneous UG degrees can be more difficult than a med degree". No argument there
but hey, since when has it been profound to state "if you add volume to something it becomes more volumous than something that used to have more volume!" This is the single dumbest thing I have ever heard. I'm sorry..... the other guy said it as well. Einstein and Newton were not handed BS in physics for their discoveries along with a square hat and a complementary pic with "mom". That is what you are comparing the BS to now.... and that is completely insane. All taught knowledge built upon the knowledge before it, but the scope of the knowledge imparted in a BS simply does not require the effort it took for those other guys to do the things that they did.
Have you ever tried to re-derive einsteins equations? I have..... it took me a long friggin time even though all of the concepts that were extracted from the equations are very familiar to me. Simply not the same and you should feel bad for suggesting it
Thank you for the reply. I'm sorry, but in my book "effort" and "volume" generally equate to time spent working. I think we can agree that, conceptually, medical school isn't as hard as some other fields. So, per your definition of difficulty (a function of complexity, load, and time constraints), you remove complexity and you are left with load and time constraints. Dealing with a higher load, yet also substantial time constraints, will naturally force you to work for longer hours. You either put in the time to keep up, or you don't. Furthermore, I don't think that the number of years required to complete the degree is an argument that really holds weight. PhD's can elect to finish in 4 years if they choose, and even if they don't, they can elect to put in more hours.
Nuel gave you an example of his experience working longer hours as a grad student, and you chose to dismiss it on the basis that "working long hours isn't difficult". He also stated that the complexity involved in his grad school work is higher than med school, which is obviously a no-brainer. Yet, you choose to focus on the point that medical school has more volume (which is true), thus requiring more effort. In doing so, you seemingly marginalize the concept that addressing complexity also requires effort, until here:
I have a B.A. in physics, and as a result I have tried to re-derive Einstein's equations. It was part of my undergraduate education. Here is where you are getting yourself into trouble. You stated that "there is not a single educational program in existence that requires more effort in studying than medicine". Then, when I brought up the obvious point that Einstein and Newton likely would find such a statement ridiculous, you chose to shift focus to the B.S. vs. M.D. argument. That wasn't the point of my post. Your assertion was that a M.D. program requires more effort than "any educational program in existence", essentially encompassing a PhD, post-doc, Einstein's educational program, Hawking's educational program, Watson and Crick's educational program, etc. That is what I was trying to address, since your quote chose to encompass all educational programs.
Lastly, your penchant for trying to spin my example to your liking also presents in issue. Yes, he did get a double major. However, when I asked him how many extra courses the second major would entail, he responded "only a couple". There is a lot of overlap between EE and CS. You automatically choose to assume that a double major = significantly more volume, when in reality you have never looked at our university bulletin, nor did you ever have the opportunity to discuss with him how his requirements were distributed. The reason I brought up that example was to illustrate that a B.S. degree could be made more difficult when taking into account proficiency + complexity (4.1 GPA in EE/CS), novelty (multiple publications), and volume (7 or 8 classes per semester). Nonetheless, you seemingly ignored proficiency and novelty, and chose to focus solely on volume.
In any case, like Nuel observed, it seems like you have already made up your mind. I just wanted you to clarify certain points in your argument, and thank you for doing that. I have a lot of respect for what doctors do, and I imagine the hard work you have been putting in the last few years brings a substantial amount of pride with it. However, I also believe that the cutting edge work done by today's scientists and engineers is equally impressive, and should also be appreciated.
Nuel gave you an example of his experience working longer hours as a grad student, and you chose to dismiss it on the basis that "working long hours isn't difficult". He also stated that the complexity involved in his grad school work is higher than med school, which is obviously a no-brainer. Yet, you choose to focus on the point that medical school has more volume (which is true), thus requiring more effort. In doing so, you seemingly marginalize the concept that addressing complexity also requires effort, until here:
I have a B.A. in physics, and as a result I have tried to re-derive Einstein's equations. It was part of my undergraduate education. Here is where you are getting yourself into trouble. You stated that "there is not a single educational program in existence that requires more effort in studying than medicine". Then, when I brought up the obvious point that Einstein and Newton likely would find such a statement ridiculous, you chose to shift focus to the B.S. vs. M.D. argument. That wasn't the point of my post. Your assertion was that a M.D. program requires more effort than "any educational program in existence", essentially encompassing a PhD, post-doc, Einstein's educational program, Hawking's educational program, Watson and Crick's educational program, etc. That is what I was trying to address, since your quote chose to encompass all educational programs.
Lastly, your penchant for trying to spin my example to your liking also presents in issue. Yes, he did get a double major. However, when I asked him how many extra courses the second major would entail, he responded "only a couple". There is a lot of overlap between EE and CS. You automatically choose to assume that a double major = significantly more volume, when in reality you have never looked at our university bulletin, nor did you ever have the opportunity to discuss with him how his requirements were distributed. The reason I brought up that example was to illustrate that a B.S. degree could be made more difficult when taking into account proficiency + complexity (4.1 GPA in EE/CS), novelty (multiple publications), and volume (7 or 8 classes per semester). Nonetheless, you seemingly ignored proficiency and novelty, and chose to focus solely on volume.
In any case, like Nuel observed, it seems like you have already made up your mind. I just wanted you to clarify certain points in your argument, and thank you for doing that. I have a lot of respect for what doctors do, and I imagine the hard work you have been putting in the last few years brings a substantial amount of pride with it. However, I also believe that the cutting edge work done by today's scientists and engineers is equally impressive, and should also be appreciated.
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Under the premise that a medical education (MD) requires more effort than any other educational program in existence, are we also taking into account the residencies and fellowship programs? I kind of agree. With people often emphasizing the sheer amount of volume of work being exposed to them within a few days and a lack of being able to study effectively all the material covered, that would give the facade of complexity. In other words, there is so much information that the material starts to become overwhelming. A lot of material given in a short interval with the expectancy to properly digest the content is very difficult and thus will match the level of doctoral level physics programs.
Are boards taken during doctoral programs? No. Only a dissertation is given. Having to comply with several benchmarks while getting an MD also adds to what makes it difficult. Getting an MD is not easy.
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You haven't read anything I've posted
Also... when I said "there is no program" I would hope that Einstein and newton, as smart as they are, would recognize that their lifes work that you reference is not an example of an "academic program"
Seriously..... srsly... are you really unable to see the inappropriateness of that comparison or how the comments made here are in no way disrespectful to PhDs?
And what nuel is struggling with is wanting me to cherry pick my statements such that I agree with him. It is equally ignorant and arrogant to assume that someone must be simply being stubborn if they do not arrive at your conclusion. I've already given several examples (including the one you mention here.... which I also mentioned in the post you quoted.....) of specific ways in which medical school is not as challenging ad other programs. However I still believe from personal experience and and observation of the lifestyles of several friends that there isn't a program out there as demanding as medical school. Barring extremes like a quintuple UG major or someone ridiculous who chooses to spend 20 hrs a day in lab (which is not necessary) I don't think you will find an exception
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Yeah... electrical engineering and computer science are basically the same thing
You seem painfully unaware of how much you are grasping at straws while trying to dissect my arguments.
You seem painfully unaware of how much you are grasping at straws while trying to dissect my arguments.
K
kpcrew
You aren't very good at making coherent arguments. You could make the M.D. degree more difficult by doing research while tutoring full time too. You're making a ******ed argument and you don't even realize it. What is a "Hawking's educational program"?
I'm not familiar with a Ph.D. in computer science but science Ph.D.s seem to be easier to obtain than M.D.s and being from a prestigious school doesn't mean anything. Earning your doctorate can vary greatly from lab to lab and can even be different for members of the same group. A lot depends on your P.I. and the projects that you're handling.
Of course you could. That's why I said, "But then again, we are talking about a case that is an extreme outlier. For the vast majority of people, no doubt in my mind medical school is harder than undergrad." All I did was provide an example of how a B.S. can be made harder than an M.D. On the first page Nuel said that "there are many programs more difficult than medical school, for example completing a BS in mathematics or physics". My original intention was to provide an example to support his opinion. That's it. Resorting to personal attacks and using words such as "******ed argument" only makes you look desperate to prove a point.
Pretty much every PhD program is different for some of the reasons you mentioned. Obviously field of study makes a big difference, as does your advisor, number of projects, topic being investigated, etc. To say that "there is not a single educational program in existence that requires more effort in studying than medicine" means that you are including all possible PhD programs that have ever existed, as well as post-doc programs, fellowships, etc. Hawking's "educational program", assuming you start at the post-secondary level, included his undergraduate work at Oxford, PhD work at Cambridge, and research fellowship at Cambridge. Since you already acknowledged that earning a doctorate can "vary greatly", it makes sense to consider Hawking's "educational program" unique and worthy of comparison.
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Luck favors the laconic. You should have been concise rather than smothering your argument with very confusing statements and phrases. Rather than mentionaing Hawking or Einstein for example, simply mention their institutions and use their names briefly as a reference point.
Point taken. Those posts were written hastily and without substantial revision, so I apologize if anything may have come across as unclear.
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OP, I scored close to 1150 on the SATs, graduated from high school with a 2.9, my undergrad GPA was way lower than yours and I took the MCAT and only scored a 29. With that being said right now especially due to my last exam lol I'm in the top 20 percentile of my class scoring in the 90s while our class average is in the 80s.
I admit that medical school is probably the toughest thing I have ever done academically but you don't need to be super smart to make it. I personally think of medical school as a full time job except in med school the harder you work, the more it actually pays off unlike my last job lol. I don't consider myself bright at all. I graduated from an undergrad school that is known but nothing fancy at all, I'm still beating my counterparts that graduated from Harvard, Hopkins and one of the top school of my state, UVA. Don't fret it man, I was so worried myself that maybe I'm not smart enough but trust me in the end it's all about discipline and hard work. Some days I wake up and don't feel like studying at all but still force myself to study 6 hours a day and it's working out pretty well.
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One of the hardest things I did in graduate school was prepare for quals at the end of a very intense 1st year. I spent almost 4 weeks studying 10-12 hrs a day reviewing and memorizing details/concepts (half of which I have forgotten) in biochemistry, physiology, biophysical chemistry, bio-organic chemistry, molecular biology, cell biology, and many experimental methods pertaining to those subjects. I still felt unprepared and could've still failed. I was grilled for almost 3 hours by eminent professors and asked to draw diagrams and mechanisms on the board. This was still easier than what it took to complete my research. I worked on a fairly difficult topic.
For perspective read Dr. Martin A Schwartz's essay (a popular piece in the scientific community): http://jcs.biologists.org/content/121/11/1771.full Dr. Schwartz is a full professor at Yale Medicine now.
At meetings, PhD and MSTP students would often discuss on this issue, and the vast majority agreed that even without the sociopolitical aspects of science, on average the PhD was still harder and required more mental ability than medical school. If you are working up to 60 hrs a week on medical school related work and you are finding it difficult to pass, maybe medical school isn't for you. And if anyone completes a PhD and considers it easy, it's the program that has failed the student.
Frankly speaking I don't fear medical school at all. Passing has NEVER been an issue. I am more worried about residency and the emotional toll it will take.
Note: None of this means anyone group is smarter/better. One of the eminent guys on my committee was a straight MD who got bored with medicine and eventually focused strictly on research after doing an extended post-doc.
My primary point in all of this is that I don't buy the idea that medical school is the most demanding program there is. Unfortunately many medical students have this view. Most likely this is because after coming from (what is in most cases) a relatively less rigorous program, and transitioning to the MD, a very hyped program, one is inclined to think receiving an MD is the pinnacle of academic achievement. So the ignorance is understandable. I would've felt this way if I had gone straight to medical school at 21.
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Good luck studying for 4 weeks for step1
This summarizes medical school. As long as you work hard and are reasonably intelligent, you'll be more than fine. I hope the undergrads and future medical students will read this and not be terrified. The difficulty of medical school is overblown by SpecterGT and others, but it's still challenging. Residency is what you should fear.
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Well passing medical school classes is not that hard especially since at most schools 70 % is passing, the hard part is doing well on USMLE step 1 especially since if you pass you are NOT allowed to retake. Thus, you end up with a score that determines the future of your medical career. Most schools tend to give 1 and half months to a student to study for step 1 and lord that is A LOT of material. Some aspects require hard work, intelligence and good memory recall which is the case in step 1.
These were individuals who had completed the PhD, were almost done, or were deep in the trenches of thesis work.
K
kpcrew
I mean people who haven't done any rotations yet.
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This is a question only you can answer. Even if you are smart enough, do you want it?
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8424161/the-first-short-new-30-30-documentary-series
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8424161/the-first-short-new-30-30-documentary-series
I agree with everything you've written, but I think the key is repetition and discipline. In graduate school I barely passed histology--it was my toughest class, inexplicably harder than bio-organic chemistry which many students dreaded. In medical school, I changed my approach and just went over slides of all forms and structures over and over and over, and focused intensively on the identifying features. This yielded extensive gains so much so that I now love histology. I was probably near the bottom of the class in histo in grad school.
I think to score 240-250+ on USMLE you should learn the material as well you can and try to retain as much as possible. One of my mentors in the 4th year told me started review half-way through first year and scored a 267. He went through most review books twice and did a ton of Q-Banks. Strangely, he just passed his classes without a single honor.
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It sounds to me like you are saying retaking it made it easier.....
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Guys this argument is pointless. The difficulty of anything in life is very subjective with that being said in my opinion the difficulty in medical school is overhyped. All you need is average intelligence then it's all about the hard work. Some of the kids in my class think they are the smartest thing known to man study for exams last few days and don't do so well. Then some of the average minded such as myself and even a friend who scored a 25 on the MCAT do a lot better because we put in the time. I don't want anyone to be discouraged and think they aren't intelligent enough to make it through medical school. I personally think if you get accepted into medical school the ADCOM have agreed that if you put in the work you will become a physician. Admission committees have been doing this for decades upon decades and they know what the hell they are doing.
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Holy crap I thought you got banned
