Dec 16, 2013
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Hey guys, I have to ask a bit of an existential question. I fooled around in college, b/c medicine was something that was shoved down my throat by my parents. Now I'm stuck with a useless degree with a sub 3.0 gpa, its been 3 years since college and everyone my age is far more successful than me and will be more successful than me for the rest of their lives.

The only place I could realistically go to medical school would be the Caribbean, unless I wanted to spend like 5 years picking my GPA up. But I'm wondering if this is even a financially sound move? It'll take about 7 years to be a doctor, I'll be in mountains of debt, and when Obamacare kicks in I'll be making 100k or so. So by the time I'm actually making money I'll be an old shriveled man.

This is assuming I am intelligent enough being a doctor, discussion otherwise would be pointless, because if that's the case, the answer is clear, save a lot of money by living an incredibly fulfilling life as a lab tech or high school teacher.

And yes I would be doing the whole doctor thing just for money. Since really what other options do I have to bank with a science degree? Please don't give me the whole "being a doctor is a passion, and I love to help people" jazz, doctors spend all their talent and time training to be a guy who treats a handful of people everyday with avoidable illnesses. If you want to help people in NEED donate to the Red Cross or something.
 

nabilesmail

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Spend one year doing retakes and classes, apply D.O. much better than Carribean
 
OP
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Dec 16, 2013
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Spend one year doing retakes and classes, apply D.O. much better than Carribean
That takes more time and money than going to the Caribbean and you'll be a D.O not an M.D which is universally worse unless you live in certain areas in the US. Not to mention less prestige.
 

Euxox

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Dec 24, 2011
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The only place I could realistically go to medical school would be the Caribbean, unless I wanted to spend like 5 years picking my GPA up.
Spend the extra five years. Don't go Caribbean.
But I'm wondering if this is even a financially sound move? It'll take about 7 years to be a doctor, I'll be in mountains of debt, and when Obamacare kicks in I'll be making 100k or so.
This is so wrong. You will make 150k+ easily. Even 200k to 300k could be very likely depending on your specialty. Obamacare is not going to affect physicians' salaries nearly to that extent. It might kill private practice, but that was already happening anyway.

Now going Caribbean -- that's a financially unsound move. Because you will be guaranteed to have mountains of debt, but you won't be guaranteed to have a residency to show for it.
So by the time I'm actually making money I'll be an old shriveled man.
No you won't. There there have been dozens and dozens of 50-year-olds who have matriculated to med schools. If you decide to spend five more years improving your grades, you will be what, 30 something when you apply? There are thousands of people in that age range who apply every year.
This is assuming I am intelligent enough being a doctor, discussion otherwise would be pointless, because if that's the case, the answer is clear, save a lot of money by living an incredibly fulfilling life as a lab tech or high school teacher.
It's more about hard work than intelligence in my opinion, but only you can decide if you have what it takes.
And yes I would be doing the whole doctor thing just for money. Since really what other options do I have to bank with a science degree?
Earlier in your post you were questioning whether you future salary would break 100k and now you say that you only want to be a doctor for the money? When people say don't go into medicine for the money, it's not about helping others, it's about enjoying your job. It doesn't matter if you're making 150k, 200k, or 300k: None of it will make a difference if you hate what you do every day.
That takes more time and money than going to the Caribbean and you'll be a D.O not an M.D which is universally worse unless you live in certain areas in the US. Not to mention less prestige.
A Caribbean MD is more prestigious than a DO degree? Please. If you really think you are too good to go DO, there are plenty of other people who will jump at the chance to take the seat that might have otherwise been yours.
 
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OP
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I'm sure investment bankers LOOOVE what they do every day :p

In any case thanks for the reply. I think this post should have been in non-trad students forum. Also, literally I don't think I can do anything else but go to the Caribbean, nearly ALL grad programs that aren't online cash grabs require above 3.0 GPA minimum. Doesn't matter if my GRE is amazing if I don't meet the MINIMUM GPA requirements.

I guess its a blessing that the Caribbean option is available, otherwise I would have no option but spend a ridiculous sum of money retaking my classes for years, or be a high school teacher. Heck my GPA might not be high enough to even do that.
 

solitarius

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Caribbean is not a viable option with the impending residency shortage.
 
OP
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Dec 16, 2013
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Spending money retaking classes is an investment. Spending money on Caribbean schools is flushing it down the drain.

Just read the front page of threads in this forum. There is a thread about a bill in the Senate that would put a halt to Federal loans for the big four Caribbean schools. How is that financially viable?
Well is it likely to pass? If I go to the Caribbean will I likely graduate before it takes into effect? Probably a bit too early to throw the Caribbean under the bus. I agree Caribbean is not ideal, but I mean obviously its going to have a dramatically lower amount of people getting into residencies because they accept a much wider array of people. Real med schools accept the best of the best.

And how is it a good investment? I would be spending 100k+ more than someone who traditionally got into med school and it would take me double the time. Wheras the Caribbean would take me the same amount of time, though it would cost significantly more. Its a less safe option, but far cheaper in both time and money.
 
OP
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Dec 16, 2013
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I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but if we look at this from a realistic perspective, right now your sub 3.0 GPA makes you one of the "wider array of people." What makes you so certain that you will be in the top half of the class that gets a residency?
In that case why should I blow a huge sum of money doing grad level classes if I'm going to fail them all?
 

sinombre

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Please don't give me the whole "being a doctor is a passion, and I love to help people" jazz, doctors spend all their talent and time training to be a guy who treats a handful of people everyday with avoidable illnesses.
Yes. Approximately every physician does exactly this.

Do you have any clinical experience at all? Your post makes it seem as if you're someone in his early 20s who has no idea what being a physician actually entails. Which is ironic considering that the title suggests you're much older than what you've written implies.
 
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Euxox

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In that case why should I blow a huge sum of money doing grad level classes if I'm going to fail them all?
At least if you are a part time student in a grad program, you can pay per course and decide to bow out if the first couple of courses don't go so well. Then you will only be out a couple of thousand dollars at most. If you go Caribbean, you'll have already spent 70k at least.

Besides, your undergrad GPA is a sign that you need to work on your study techniques before getting into med school if you're going to be able to handle med school material. That is the whole reason med schools screen for GPA in the first place.
 
OP
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Dec 16, 2013
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Do you intend to take advice here or have you already made up your mind?
I'm wondering, theoretically, if I go to the Caribbean AND I get a residency, will it pay financial dividends compared to working anywhere else. Would I make enough as a doctor in a reasonable amount of time that I should even want to do it for the money?
 

Euxox

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I'm wondering, theoretically, if I go to the Caribbean AND I get a residency, will it pay financial dividends compared to working anywhere else. Would I make enough as a doctor in a reasonable amount of time that I should even want to do it for the money?
You're defending the Caribbean idea so vigorously that it seems like you've already made up your mind. I'm just going to reiterate what I said before. Yes, if you go to the Caribbean AND get a residency, the financial returns will be quite good. But that is a huge if.

As an aside, (and please take this as friendly advice) if you really think like this
everyone my age is far more successful than me and will be more successful than me for the rest of their lives.
This is assuming I am intelligent enough being a doctor, discussion otherwise would be pointless, because if that's the case, the answer is clear, save a lot of money by living an incredibly fulfilling life as a lab tech or high school teacher.
And yes I would be doing the whole doctor thing just for money. Since really what other options do I have to bank with a science degree? Please don't give me the whole "being a doctor is a passion, and I love to help people" jazz, doctors spend all their talent and time training to be a guy who treats a handful of people everyday with avoidable illnesses.
and you want to become a doctor or find success in some other way, you will need to drop the negativity and cynicism. That kind of defeatist mindset is not conducive to success. Successful people don't look at the roadblocks in front of them and give up; they think about how they can act on the opportunities that they are lucky enough to have.
 

nemo123

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Jul 22, 2011
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With new medical schools popping up lately but with no to very little increase in residency positions, IMGs (that includes Carribean grads) will eventually be shut out of the system, OP. Do not go Caribbean. They fail tons of their medical students every year, and many of those failed students are left with thousands of debt without a degree. You will be more miserable than you are now, and that dream of yours to make lots of money will die in a fire.

There might be stigma surrounding DO doctors, but there is also stigma surrounding Carribean grads.
 

lobo.solo

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May 4, 2011
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That takes more time and money than going to the Caribbean and you'll be a D.O not an M.D which is universally worse unless you live in certain areas in the US. Not to mention less prestige.
Worse? Lol. Prestige? Haha. I don't think you are in a position to be picky. Residency is going to be harder to match into for Caribbean grads so... Yeah
 

LizzyM

the evil queen of numbers
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I must be wearing my cynical hat today because I suddenly wondered if spending $70 K on lottery tickets might be a better use of the money than going to the Carribean for med school.

OP: we have not yet established if you are smart/hard working enough to go farther in your education than you already have. I'd recommend starting by enrolling as a student at large or post-bac student in undergrad classes at a community college (if you are strapped for cash) or at a university (if money is no object) and retaking classes in which you earned less than a B at an undergrad. If you walk away with no grade less than an A-, then we might agree that you are smart/hardworking enough to do well in med school. The next step would be a special masters program (SMP) which is a huge gamble because the degree itself is completely worthless unless it gets you into medical school. The less risky approach is to go for a MS in biology, biochemistry or some variation on that theme which can get you in the door in industry, etc if med school doesn't work out (more marketable than the SMP).

If you can't excel when retaking undergraduate classes, there isn't much hope of turning things around in grad school/professional school and I wouldn't blame adcoms for choosing not to take a chance on you.
 
Nov 8, 2013
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And yes I would be doing the whole doctor thing just for money. Since really what other options do I have to bank with a science degree? Please don't give me the whole "being a doctor is a passion, and I love to help people" jazz, doctors spend all their talent and time training to be a guy who treats a handful of people everyday with avoidable illnesses. If you want to help people in NEED donate to the Red Cross or something.
The way OP belittles the medical profession amazes me that you all are willing to give him advice.
 
Aug 12, 2013
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Hey guys, I have to ask a bit of an existential question. I fooled around in college, b/c medicine was something that was shoved down my throat by my parents. Now I'm stuck with a useless degree with a sub 3.0 gpa, its been 3 years since college and everyone my age is far more successful than me and will be more successful than me for the rest of their lives.

The only place I could realistically go to medical school would be the Caribbean, unless I wanted to spend like 5 years picking my GPA up. But I'm wondering if this is even a financially sound move? It'll take about 7 years to be a doctor, I'll be in mountains of debt, and when Obamacare kicks in I'll be making 100k or so. So by the time I'm actually making money I'll be an old shriveled man.

This is assuming I am intelligent enough being a doctor, discussion otherwise would be pointless, because if that's the case, the answer is clear, save a lot of money by living an incredibly fulfilling life as a lab tech or high school teacher.

And yes I would be doing the whole doctor thing just for money. Since really what other options do I have to bank with a science degree? Please don't give me the whole "being a doctor is a passion, and I love to help people" jazz, doctors spend all their talent and time training to be a guy who treats a handful of people everyday with avoidable illnesses. If you want to help people in NEED donate to the Red Cross or something.
You mentioned i-banking in a later post. Why don't you go for a MBA and work in finance? Shorter education and more lucrative than trying to become a doctor.
 
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Espadaleader

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May 27, 2010
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The Caribbean is a no go. That is no longer an option. Period. US DO students will more than double in the next four years, which will shut out FMGs. Don't belittle medicine. Medicine is not about money. I just signed up for 4 more years of school and debt, and 4 to 8 years of training working 80 hours a week making what all of my peers are making straight out of undergrad. Prob won't have my first job in another 8-12 years. All while knowing an unbelievable amount of information and subject to a crazy amount of responsibility. Doctors eventually make money but honestly, you're not starting your career until almost 40 now.
 

Goro

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In answer to your first question, the answer is no, no one's too old for medical school. Some of my all-time best students have been in their 30s and 40s.

I'm assuming that you're not a troll, but your attitude is extremely immature, and if an Adcom member even gets a whiff of anything like the below from you, you'd get rejected before you left the room. But I think that the Carib would be a fine venue for you.

And yes I would be doing the whole doctor thing just for money. Since really what other options do I have to bank with a science degree? Please don't give me the whole "being a doctor is a passion, and I love to help people" jazz, doctors spend all their talent and time training to be a guy who treats a handful of people everyday with avoidable illnesses. If you want to help people in NEED donate to the Red Cross or something.[/quote]
 
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Dec 16, 2013
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Hey guys, posting to say that I do appreciate the non arse-hole answers to this post. If you haven't noticed I was a bit hysterical when I posted this, this is a topic that has left me quite bitter as I see my friends pass me by in life. And obviously I wouldn't let say to an adcom I am doing this for the money. To an adcom I am a kid who has changed his ways and has found that being a doctor is my true passion :p

I guess my whole post was to find out if it was wiser for me to be a doctor for monetary reasons rather than doing something else like getting an MBA. I did the math, and assuming I get a residency after going to the Caribbean, it is better for me to be a doctor both financially and in terms of the hours I would have to work.
 
OP
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Dec 16, 2013
94
6
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The Caribbean is a no go. That is no longer an option. Period. US DO students will more than double in the next four years, which will shut out FMGs. Don't belittle medicine. Medicine is not about money. I just signed up for 4 more years of school and debt, and 4 to 8 years of training working 80 hours a week making what all of my peers are making straight out of undergrad. Prob won't have my first job in another 8-12 years. All while knowing an unbelievable amount of information and subject to a crazy amount of responsibility. Doctors eventually make money but honestly, you're not starting your career until almost 40 now.
That sounds like a terrible idea no offense, keep in mind I am doing it for the money I have no real burning passion to be a doctor. If it would take me 12 years to make money as a doctor, the wiser decision would obviously be to do another undergrad in another field to redo my GPA so I could get into a great grad school.

And no, I can't even get into any masters program to get a redo on my GPA since its below 3.0

EDIT: This whole thread probably should have been posted in "non-trad" students so I could get input from them...
 
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OP
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You mentioned i-banking in a later post. Why don't you go for a MBA and work in finance? Shorter education and more lucrative than trying to become a doctor.
Much worse hours depending on specialty with practically the same financial investment in education. A Harvard MBA would kill to get a job similar to emergency medicine. 200k for 36 hours a week.
 

iceman55

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May 9, 2010
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One thing they teach you in business school is that you should always take opportunity cost into account. Training for an MBA requires two years of working in industry to build your resume for your business school application and two years in business school. Then you are free to start making money. Training for EM requires four years of medical school and four years of residency. You have to wait twice as long to start earning at your full potential.

Don't go into medicine just for the money. There has to be something else drawing you to it as well.
A lot of EM residency programs are actually three years.

But I def. agree with you, one should definetly love the field.

But, I don't know about waiting twice as long to reach full potential. Its not like someone that as just received an MBA is gonna be at full potential either.
 
Mar 26, 2013
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EDIT: This whole thread probably should have been posted in "non-trad" students so I could get input from them...
Nope I think you are getting good advice here, but you are just looking for people who will agree with your preconceived notions instead of actually asking for advice. I doubt the non-trads would have much different to say to you.

Either that or you are running a very successful troll thread...
 
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Mar 26, 2013
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This is assuming I am intelligent enough being a doctor, discussion otherwise would be pointless, because if that's the case, the answer is clear, save a lot of money by living an incredibly fulfilling life as a lab tech or high school teacher.
I think you should do this. Just because your parents shoved medicine down your throat at one point doesn't mean you have what it takes to actually get into and succeed in medical school. You knock on it not being fulfilling but you just said you were only in medicine for the money, so I don't know why you think medicine would be so fulfilling anyways.

You could start work now instead of 8-12 years from now and make enough money to get by, and this is without taking out well over $200,000 in loans...
 
OP
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Dec 16, 2013
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I think you should do this. Just because your parents shoved medicine down your throat at one point doesn't mean you have what it takes to actually get into and succeed in medical school. You knock on it not being fulfilling but you just said you were only in medicine for the money, so I don't know why you think medicine would be so fulfilling anyways.

You could start work now instead of 8-12 years from now and make enough money to get by, and this is without taking out well over $200,000 in loans...
Getting good money for your work is fulfilling. Lol doctors are the only people who feel their profession is somehow sacred, if I had posted in a business or law forum of how one of my major motivations is money, everyone would be like, so what?

If you are getting a disparate amount of money for the amount of work you are doing, like high school teachers, it would be a bit different and in which case you would obviously be doing it for your passion.
 
OP
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Dec 16, 2013
94
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One thing they teach you in business school is that you should always take opportunity cost into account. Training for an MBA requires two years of working in industry to build your resume for your business school application and two years in business school. Then you are free to start making money. Training for EM requires four years of medical school and four years of residency. You have to wait twice as long to start earning at your full potential.

Don't go into medicine just for the money. There has to be something else drawing you to it as well.
I would have to go back and take some classes if not do my bachelor's all over again to reset my GPA, which is 2 years, then 2 years getting an MBA, and thus schooling cost ends up about being the same along with schooling time. Though I agree getting an MBA is smarter financially if you have a good GPA and thus only have to work 2-3 years before getting into a program.
 

ChartaBona

MD Class of 2017
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Jun 21, 2010
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For someone "too old" you are very immature, short-sighted, and closed-minded.
Medical school would chew you up and spit you out.

(My troll detector is off the charts.)