AMCAS vs. University GPA calculations

[CycleCA]

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So I've got a question about GPA calculations. I called AMCAS on friday and asked them how they calculate GPA, and specifically if they honor academic renewal a.k.a. a school discounting grades from GPA. AMCAS said that they don't consider this, and simply count all grades on a transcript regardless. But, I also spoke with USC's Keck school -- and they said they make their own GPA calculations and honor academic renewal. I also spoke with some of the UC's, and they don't honor academic renewal. Basically, my story is that I had to work and go to school w/ other extenuating circumstances for the first few years in community college and I got some D's and F's. Then, I was able to get some financial aid and parental assistance and I got a 4.0 for 5 years straight. My cumulative GPA is a 3.0, my GPA w/ academic renewal is a 3.85. I plan on doing a formal post bac program, too, to raise my cum GPA up to a 3.3. Assuming I get a 30+ on the MCAT, too. I also have lots of clinical experience (1.5 years volunteering, 3 years working as a CNA, getting my BS in nursing, work exp. as a nurse, etc) and some memberships in phi beta kappa, sigma theta tau, and good LOR's. Does anyone have any advice about which schools to apply to, and what my chances are? The upward GPA trend is so dramatic it's not even funny.

 

[nabeel76]

CycleCA - I am in a similiar boat as well. I took a semester of classes 10+ years ago at a community college and did not show up to them due to a full time job that I accepted. Needless to say I got 4 F's and a W that semester. I came back 8 years later, applied for academic renewal and finished 2 years worth of course work at a 4.0. So I would also be very interested in any schools you find out about that does honor academic renewal. Thanks.

 

[Meatwad]

Unfortunately, every course ever recorded on a transcript, regardless of what the actual school counts them as, are counted by AMCAS. If you could get your school to retroactively change them to Ws, though, than AMCAS would not calculate them. As long as they exist on file somewhere as being Fs or Ds somewhere, they will be looked upon as such by AMCAS.

 

[CycleCA]

CycleCA - I am in a similiar boat as well. I took a semester of classes 10+ years ago at a community college and did not show up to them due to a full time job that I accepted. Needless to say I got 4 F's and a W that semester. I came back 8 years later, applied for academic renewal and finished 2 years worth of course work at a 4.0. So I would also be very interested in any schools you find out about that does honor academic renewal. Thanks.

Yeah, those old grades haunt me like the ghost of christmas past. "f's! you're doomed!" is what they say... anyways, like I mentioned in the original post, I had to actually call USC and ask about their policies. There's no way to hide the grades, though, the adcoms will still see them. But, if schools recognize academic renewal then it won't hurt their GPA averages to let you in... making it a more personal decision. That, and the upward trend will definitely be noticed. I think that many many many people have some bad experiences their first few years in school, and that it's relatively common to have some bad grades taking up space on your transcript somewhere. I know that for me, at least, working minimum wage while trying to pay for school + relocating lots didn't help my GPA at all. But, I'm sure a willing adcom will hear me out and not judge too harshly. Good luck!
PS- I'll make a deal with you... I'll call 10 schools and ask if you call 10 schools and ask about their consideration of academic renewal.

 

[CycleCA]

Unfortunately, every course ever recorded on a transcript, regardless of what the actual school counts them as, are counted by AMCAS. If you could get your school to retroactively change them to Ws, though, than AMCAS would not calculate them. As long as they exist on file somewhere as being Fs or Ds somewhere, they will be looked upon as such by AMCAS.

Just so everyone knows, though, AMCAS might have their own calculations, but not all universities use the AMCAS GPA. Also, I talked to several schools about this and they said that it's fine to submit a supplementary statement explaining academic renewal and the circumstances surrounding the d's and f's. Realistically, I think that AMCAS has this policy so that they don't have to deal with people on an individual basis. I remember talking to an AMCAS rep. on the phone and he kept regurgitating the same canned lines. Basically, AMCAS does this to not create individual discrepancies for people who've repeated classes or had things like academic renewal done. But, all hope isn't lost for people like me and nabeel or others who've had academic renewal.

 

[nabeel76]

Yeah, those old grades haunt me like the ghost of christmas past. "f's! you're doomed!" is what they say... anyways, like I mentioned in the original post, I had to actually call USC and ask about their policies. There's no way to hide the grades, though, the adcoms will still see them. But, if schools recognize academic renewal then it won't hurt their GPA averages to let you in... making it a more personal decision. That, and the upward trend will definitely be noticed. I think that many many many people have some bad experiences their first few years in school, and that it's relatively common to have some bad grades taking up space on your transcript somewhere. I know that for me, at least, working minimum wage while trying to pay for school + relocating lots didn't help my GPA at all. But, I'm sure a willing adcom will hear me out and not judge too harshly. Good luck!
PS- I'll make a deal with you... I'll call 10 schools and ask if you call 10 schools and ask about their consideration of academic renewal.

Its a deal. I will try and find out what schools don't use amcas (not sure if all do), and start from there.

P.S. I did get some good advice a while back from an applicant that had mentioned putting a brief statement regarding grades attached to the end of their personal statement. Just a seperate paragraph attached at the end, maybe seperated by a line. Hopefully this works because in the long run my GPA of approx 3.8 drops to a 3.2ish cumulative. My science GPA is however still going to be in the 3.8 range, since none of those F's were science or math courses. Do you know how that will be percieved? Assuming the F's are not overlooked will a 3.2x Cum, 3.8 BCMP raise flags?

 

[Meatwad]

Its a deal. I will try and find out what schools don't use amcas (not sure if all do), and start from there.

P.S. I did get some good advice a while back from an applicant that had mentioned putting a brief statement regarding grades attached to the end of their personal statement. Just a seperate paragraph attached at the end, maybe seperated by a line. Hopefully this works because in the long run my GPA of approx 3.8 drops to a 3.2ish cumulative. My science GPA is however still going to be in the 3.8 range, since none of those F's were science or math courses. Do you know how that will be percieved? Assuming the F's are not overlooked will a 3.2x Cum, 3.8 BCMP raise flags?

Of course you'll be fighting a very uphill battle with a 3.2, so I wouldn't get my hopes up. However, thankfully the 3.8 BCPM will help you out. If you can score well over a 30 on the MCAT, your chances will be a bit better.

If you do an SMP, with that BCPM and an MCAT over 30, you'd probably get in somewhere.

 

[nabeel76]

Meatwad,

Well those grades were over the course of 1 semester in the fall of 1995 in which I enrolled in 5 courses but could not attend due to a very lucrative full time job building computer internet backbones that I accepted (Medicine was not in my agenda at that point in life, so I didn't have the foresight to drop the courses). Since then I enrolled in 2003 at the same community college and finished 54 credits at a 4.0 and then transferred to UVA (Class 07) and finished 77 credits at a 3.5 (Bio major). So basically my cum GPA is around a 3.7 - 3.8 over the past 4 years. (I don't see how any more post bacc or SMP's etc could help me since I basically just completed 4 years with a 3.8 avg.) It's just that one semester of F's from 12 years ago that brings it down to a 3.2 - 3.3 (4 non science classes 10 credits). I have been told by advisors that most adcoms will see that those grades were from a long time ago and that I have a pretty solid excuse - trust me I wasn't jerking off with my time.

My concern is not the lack of GPA, I feel that most schools will overlook those F's, to an extent, when they hear the story behind them. My concern however is, how the top tier schools will view this? I am afraid they will not even give me a chance to tell my story if they look at the 3.2- 3.3 GPA and toss the application without ever reading the statement. This would be very unfortunate because in my situation I made the decision to pursue a career in Network Engineering at the time, I didn't just oversleep or party through that semester. The way I see it I didn't officially start my college career or even earn my first college credit until 2003, in which case my cum GPA should be a 3.8. So any schools that honor the academic renewal policy are a big plus in my book. I am also curious to see how other applicants with lower cum but high BCMP GPA's did in the app process - applicants that were science majors in particular.

 

[Meatwad]

Meatwad,

Well those grades were over the course of 1 semester in the fall of 1995 in which I enrolled in 5 courses but could not attend due to a very lucrative full time job building computer internet backbones that I accepted (Medicine was not in my agenda at that point in life, so I didn't have the foresight to drop the courses). Since then I enrolled in 2003 at the same community college and finished 54 credits at a 4.0 and then transferred to UVA (Class 07) and finished 77 credits at a 3.5 (Bio major). So basically my cum GPA is around a 3.7 - 3.8 over the past 4 years. (I don't see how any more post bacc or SMP's etc could help me since I basically just completed 4 years with a 3.8 avg.) It's just that one semester of F's from 12 years ago that brings it down to a 3.2 - 3.3 (4 non science classes 10 credits). I have been told by advisors that most adcoms will see that those grades were from a long time ago and that I have a pretty solid excuse - trust me I wasn't jerking off with my time.

My concern is not the lack of GPA, I feel that most schools will overlook those F's, to an extent, when they hear the story behind them. My concern however is, how the top tier schools will view this? I am afraid they will not even give me a chance to tell my story if they look at the 3.2- 3.3 GPA and toss the application without ever reading the statement. This would be very unfortunate because in my situation I made the decision to pursue a career in Network Engineering at the time, I didn't just oversleep or party through that semester. The way I see it I didn't officially start my college career or even earn my first college credit until 2003, in which case my cum GPA should be a 3.8. So any schools that honor the academic renewal policy are a big plus in my book. I am also curious to see how other applicants with lower cum but high BCMP GPA's did in the app process - applicants that were science majors in particular.

Your upward trend will help you, even if your overall GPA won't move much. It sucks that your grades were bad in the past, but we really just have to move on. If by top-tier you mean the Harvards, Stanfords, UCSFs, and JHUs of the country, yeah, I wouldn't say you have much hope. As long as you have over a 3.0, a very strong MCAT, the rest of your app is strong, and you have an amazing trend, you have a shot at some schools. Doing a master's (SMP) would definitely benefit you though.