An Effective Way of Narrowing Down MSTPs?

[JVGeneration]

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Hi Everyone,

I'm planning on applying to MSTPs for admission in 2015 or 2016. I'm currently in a Postbac position at UPenn, and I'm riding an exponential growth curve as far as training is concerned. My mentor is a general surgeon that also leads a biomedical research lab, so I'm getting the best of both worlds. While I would love to stay at PENN, I feel my chances of being admitted to the program are slim. I'm not a pessimistic person, and still think I have a shot at it, but the two heads of admissions told me my undergrad GPA will be my downfall in their admissions process, regardless of my MCAT score, research experience, and passion.

So, that being said, I've begun looking at a broader spectrum of schools. My passion lies within the field of gene therapy - that's why I sought a postbac position at PENN in the first place. I've generated a list of schools that interest me based on their gene therapy research. However, I'm starting to wonder if this is the best way to narrow down potential schools. I've been told, time and again, that you narrow your field of interest during your PostDoc, and that your thesis lab doesn't limit your possibilities. Perhaps I'm going about this the wrong way?

I'm hoping that someone might have some insight into classifying schools based on what they're good at/known for. Gene therapy encompasses many different aspects within molecular biology, but fewer in the medical realm. Here are some areas that I think are pertinent to the field I'm interested in, and a school that has above average training in them would be a plus. The question is - how do I find those schools, other than reading every faculty page at each university?

Gene Therapy:
-PhD Topics: Virology, immunology, cell/molecular biology, molecular genetics
-MD Areas: Surgery, cardiology, immunology, oncology

Schools with Gene Therapy Centers/Research:
-UPenn
-Baylor (Unfortunately, I am not interested in going here for other reasons)
-University of Washington
-University of Florida
-University of Iowa
-University of North Carolina
-Ohio State University (through their affiliation with a children's hospital)

I'll be honest - right now I think I'm interested in sticking to the East coast/midwest. Would I go to the west coast if I had an outstanding offer? Probably, but I think I can get outstanding offers in the locations I'm interested in, too.


Thanks for any help!

 

[gutonc]

I know you said you'd prefer to stay off the West Coast but OHSU has the Vaccine and Gene Therapy Institute as well as a massive new investment in tumor immunology. UCSD MSTPs can do work at Scripps, Salk and Sanford-Burnham which also gives you gene therapy options.

 

[gbwillner]

Do you have warrants for your arrest in Texas?

 

[gutonc]

The problem with Texas is...Texas.

 

[uniqenam]

The problem with Texas is...Texas.

Eh, as a transplant from a hippie town, Texas big-city life is pretty enjoyable. Houston would be pretty interesting though, I've heard it's basically a hot, humid swamp.

 

[Fencer]

... planning on applying to MSTPs for admission in 2015 or 2016.
...
Schools with Gene Therapy Centers/Research:
-UPenn
-Baylor (Unfortunately, I am not interested in going here for other reasons)
-University of Washington
-University of Florida
-University of Iowa
-University of North Carolina
-Ohio State University (through their affiliation with a children's hospital)

I'll be honest - right now I think I'm interested in sticking to the East coast/midwest. Would I go to the west coast if I had an outstanding offer? Probably, but I think I can get outstanding offers in the locations I'm interested in, too.
...

You must be applying to all of those MSTPs and more. Even with high academic achievements and a reasonable research experience, admission into specific programs is not easy or guaranteed. You must spread your application net to over 20 MSTPs, once you are interviewed, and obtain multiple acceptances, then you can become picky and choose carefully... I have seen applicants who were too picky and had a small list of "top 10" MSTPs who need to re-apply a year later because they were not able to get in.

 

[gbwillner]

The problem with Texas is...Texas.

Actually, I think Houston is the ideal place to do an MD/PhD. It is a major metropolis with tons to see and do, BCM is a great program, and it's extremely cheap so your pittance stipend can get you far enough that you may even buy property and build equity.

 

[JVGeneration]

You must be applying to all of those MSTPs and more. Even with high academic achievements and a reasonable research experience, admission into specific programs is not easy or guaranteed. You must spread your application net to over 20 MSTPs, once you are interviewed, and obtain multiple acceptances, then you can become picky and choose carefully... I have seen applicants who were too picky and had a small list of "top 10" MSTPs who need to re-apply a year later because they were not able to get in.

Hi Fencer. How do students afford to apply to 20 different schools? These applications are quite expensive, especially if you include score reporting costs, etc. (Unless AMCAS has a different system than PhD programs). I'm guessing they average around $100 each. Any solutions to getting around this costs? Frankly, I can't see myself squeezing 2k out of my 26k salary.

My reason for avoiding Baylor is not because of where it is located, but rather where its roots lie. (Hah!) I don't think we would get along well, and this is coming from the son of a Baptist preacher.

I'll look into OCSD a bit more. However, no one is aware of a better way of narrowing down the schools? Is there a compilation of recent admissions statistics? That might not be a bad place to start either...

Thanks!

 

[uniqenam]

Actually, I think Houston is the ideal place to do an MD/PhD. It is a major metropolis with tons to see and do, BCM is a great program, and it's extremely cheap so your pittance stipend can get you far enough that you may even buy property and build equity.

I think similarly for Dallas and San Antonio. Probably would be the case for Austin if UT-Austin could build up a great md/phd there as well, although I guess they have some sort of program with UTMB.

 

[ValentinNarcisse]

I think we should refer to the school we are at in all caps. PENN PENN PENN

 

[gbwillner]

Hi Fencer. How do students afford to apply to 20 different schools? These applications are quite expensive, especially if you include score reporting costs, etc. (Unless AMCAS has a different system than PhD programs). I'm guessing they average around $100 each. Any solutions to getting around this costs? Frankly, I can't see myself squeezing 2k out of my 26k salary.

My reason for avoiding Baylor is not because of where it is located, but rather where its roots lie. (Hah!) I don't think we would get along well, and this is coming from the son of a Baptist preacher.

I'll look into OCSD a bit more. However, no one is aware of a better way of narrowing down the schools? Is there a compilation of recent admissions statistics? That might not be a bad place to start either...

Thanks!

Uhhh.... Baylor has no religious affiliation. It also has no affiliation with Baylor University. Baylor University's hospital system is in Dallas. The name is a relic, and has been for 70 or so years.

Choosing not to apply for this reason would be silly at best.

 

[JVGeneration]

Uhhh.... Baylor has no religious affiliation. It also has no affiliation with Baylor University. Baylor University's hospital system is in Dallas. The name is a relic, and has been for 70 or so years.

Choosing not to apply for this reason would be silly at best.

Perhaps I've made a mistake? Is Baylor College of Medicine not part of Baylor University? I thought it was Baylor University's medical school? Even so, I'm pretty sure Baylor College of Medicine is affiliated with a strongly Methodist hospital? There are forums/groups for gay pre-MD /MSTP students, and BCM was rated poorly for acceptance. Furthermore, I reached out to a current attendee for his opinion. He said that he didn't feel at home, and that he definitely would never admit to being gay within the college.

Not looking to live my life in a closet for the next 8 years, so Baylor is out - done & done.

 

[gbwillner]

Perhaps I've made a mistake? Is Baylor College of Medicine not part of Baylor University? I thought it was Baylor University's medical school? Even so, I'm pretty sure Baylor College of Medicine is affiliated with a strongly Methodist hospital? There are forums/groups for gay pre-MD /MSTP students, and BCM was rated poorly for acceptance. Furthermore, I reached out to a current attendee for his opinion. He said that he didn't feel at home, and that he definitely would never admit to being gay within the college.

Not looking to live my life in a closet for the next 8 years, so Baylor is out - done & done.

HA!! You are wrong on all counts, sorry. BMC "divorced" from Baylor University in the 40's prior to even moving to Houston. The have ZERO religious affiliation. Methodist Hospital is not a religious institution; it is not run by priests. It was perhaps founded by them, but they have non-discriminatory practices. Regardless, BCM "divorced" from Methodist in 2004ish. Furthermore, I have several gay friends who went to BCM. I've never heard this type of accusation and it seems silly.
There is even a gay/lesbian group called the "gay-straight alliance". All I had to do to find it was google it.

 

[JVGeneration]

Regardless GB, we have different opinions on Baylor. I happen to not be interested in entertaining it for my future training. Happy to hear any other schools you might suggest though.

 

[gbwillner]

Regardless GB, we have different opinions on Baylor. I happen to not be interested in entertaining it for my future training. Happy to hear any other schools you might suggest though.

Hmmm... I think we do have different opinions- one based on facts and the other conjecture. You don't have to like BCM or go there, but to dismiss it (and slander it) is foolish on your part. It could be the perfect place for you, but you may never know.

 

[JVGeneration]

I think we should refer to the school we are at in all caps. PENN PENN PENN

Really, what are with the trolls? I didn't go to PENN for undergrad, and have no formal academic training here. That just happens to be an acronym that is used for the University of Pennsylvania. I didn't know the acronyms for the other universities, so I spelled them out.

 

[Student's T]

When I interviewed there a few years ago BCM made a strong point of discussing their commitment to supporting diversity (including LGBT), apparently because of these types of notions (whether supported by any reality or not). Several LGBT students very openly discussed their experiences (again, take what you will from that). Seemed like a pretty nice program to me (if you can stand the humidity), and Houston is incredibly inexpensive.

 

[ValentinNarcisse]

Really, what are with the trolls? I didn't go to PENN for undergrad, and have no formal academic training here. That just happens to be an acronym that is used for the University of Pennsylvania. I didn't know the acronyms for the other universities, so I spelled them out.

The overwhelming majority of people just write Penn. The all caps is excessive.

 

[cpi89]

Mayo also has a PhD program specifically in "Virology and Gene Therapy". Even though you discounted the entire left side of the country, I'll go ahead and second OHSU and their VGTI (plus Portland is fantastic).

In response to your comment about the cost of applying to many schools, I think you just do it regardless. If you have to save up, save up. Especially if you have concerns about your GPA, that will limit your choices and you'll need to apply broader. Applying to medical school is just expensive, no way around it unless you qualify for FAP. I'm not sure what the actual average number of schools that most MD/PhD applicants apply to, but I applied to about 16 and I think that runs close to (maybe a bit above) the average. Even then, you end up with kind of a crapshoot.

 

[Neuronix]

What is your GPA? It could be low enough to be a problem anywhere.

 

[ilikeargyle]

You must be applying to all of those MSTPs and more. Even with high academic achievements and a reasonable research experience, admission into specific programs is not easy or guaranteed. You must spread your application net to over 20 MSTPs, once you are interviewed, and obtain multiple acceptances, then you can become picky and choose carefully... I have seen applicants who were too picky and had a small list of "top 10" MSTPs who need to re-apply a year later because they were not able to get in.

I have a friend with a much more solid GPA/MCAT/application than me but she was too close-minded in school choices with rank/location. She's gotten <5 interviews and I'm hoping the best for her, but she has yet to hear decisions from the schools she interviewed with. To hit the same nail as Fencer, don't be close-minded. Every school is a crapshoot and you don't know what you may or may not like until you try it out.

Hi Fencer. How do students afford to apply to 20 different schools? These applications are quite expensive, especially if you include score reporting costs, etc. (Unless AMCAS has a different system than PhD programs). I'm guessing they average around $100 each. Any solutions to getting around this costs? Frankly, I can't see myself squeezing 2k out of my 26k salary.

The MCAT score is included in your AMCAS, i.e. you don't pay more to report your MCAT score to 10 vs. 30 schools because it's in a centralized application system, versus applying individually to graduate school where you need to report the score to each school. Save money, live frugally, make smart choices, don't go out and pay for a $15 drink that's half full of ice. I made a similar amount and put aside at least $200/month for >8 months. This covered a good portion of my costs. Estimate (primary, secondaries, travel, lodging) and plan accordingly. Eventually I asked my parents for some help when it came to be too much (thankfully, I have supportive parents who will help in what little way they can, I know not everyone has this luxury). PM if you want an example of costs to get an idea, as I kept track on an Excel worksheet.

 

[Fencer]

My school doesn't have a secondary application and we can help (early requests) with student housing for our interview. Our program pays for your 2nd visit, if accepted. We have a strong LGBT community and Gay-Straight Alliance, with several members from the MD/PhD students and faculty. Unfortunately for you, we are in Texas.

 

[miz]

You asked about a compilation of recent admission statistics. A previous applicant made a compilation of median GPA/MCAT scores for various programs which you may find helpful:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AgO_VJ3HntJpdG12WHRQTS1kQWg2bllYVGtma1NIY2c&output=html
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...-average-gpa-mcat-ranking-gpp-stipend.918777/


I will also vouch for finding Baylor to be warm and open to people of many backgrounds. Not trying to change the OP's mind, just going on the record for future LGBTQI applicants who might see this thread.

 

[JVGeneration]

Argyle, I actually stick to a strict budget as well. However, living in Philadelphia is not cheap, and that combined with my $700/month student loan payments leaves me with around ~$300/mo to live off. That leave me with a cell phone, gym membership, food, and car insurance. I really don't have a lot of wiggle room right now. I work weekends in my lab to push publications, so a second job isn't possible, unless I sacrifice some productivity in the lab. Parent's are supportive for small things, but they don't have $3k to pass me, either.

So, I think there is some confusion on my list of schools. The schools I listed are ones I intend to apply to - I am interested in expanding my list, but want to do so in an effective way, that matches with my interests. Looking for help on how to expand that list, without reading individual faculty research pages, etc.

Fencer, good to know - I've got some time before I apply, and I might consider Texas when the time comes. Biggest issue with southern states is the heat - I don't know that I'm compatible. And, I speak with experience - I lived in Florida for 6 months for an internship, and nearly died during the summer months. Only reason I'd consider going back is because I now have a network of friends there. It may seem trivial to some, but let's be realistic - are you going to do well in an 8 year program if you're miserable? I don't think I would, and won't set myself up for failure 😛

 

[Neuronix]

I've seen a number of these "my GPA is kind of low" posts turn out to be GPA of 2.9 or GPA of 3.9 (but I got a B- in organic chemistry I!!!) over the years. The discussion of which schools to apply to is pointless until you've answered my three standard questions: GPA, MCAT, research experience. Though if you don't have an MCAT score because you haven't taken it yet, that's reasonable.