And you matched at...

[Miss Mammelon]

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I know I don't write in very often, but I thought I'd share some results from Columbia since there isn't a lot of northeast representation so far 🙂

Most of us matched. From what I know we have...
2 to Columbia
1 to Harvard
1 to NYU
1 to Montefiore
1 to Rochester

This year we didn't have a huge number applying to ortho- maybe 9 or 10.
In past years the number has been larger, but this year our largest group is the OMFS applicants.

 

[jpollei]

In case anyone is interested and hasn't (or can't) view this on the MATCH website (www.natmatch.com/dentres)...

Number of Applicants Participating in the Match 498
Average Number of Ranks per Applicant 4.7
Applicants Matched 252
Participating Applicants Not Matched 246
Institutions Participating in the Match 50

Match Results by Rank on Applicant’s List Rank Number Number Matched
1 179
2 38
3 20
4 8
5 2
6 or higher 5

Distribution of Positions to Programs Number of Positions Number of Programs
1 4
2 2
3 8
4 13
5 8
6 8
7 6
8 or more 4

 

[dort-ort]

had 97 boards average, top of class, research, teaching/volunteer stuff, went to prestigous undergrad, applied to over 20 programs, only got 4 interviews, none at what you others call 'top tier', got great vibes from the residents at the gatherings and even had faculty interviewing me give great feedback..i am not 'socially awkward' by any means......got in NO WHERE. I almost feel as if the programs led me on.

So to all you who matched....jpollei, and your UNC friends, what were your board scores? what do you think set you apart? And if you dont mind me asking, how old are the people you know that have matched? Im barely 25 and feel like that was seen as immature compared to some of the late 20's/early 30's married folks I encountered on my interviews.

why does it seem like only UNC students got in or are you guys the only ones on his site?

Quit cryin -- got one word for you -- reapply.

I don't know what the big deal is with ortho anyways. It will fast be loosing its prestige and soon its rewards. All of you will be working along side pharmacists, optometrist, and physical therapists. Or at least be considered analogous to these corner store, managed, para-professionals.

 

[antidentite]

that hurts after the hard work and sacrifice that went in to getting in to a legitimate program. what even hurts more is looking at the newly minted OEC grads smiling faces on their websites which are all linked from Imagine Orthodontics. (http://www.imagineorthodontics.com/locations.php?location=ne.txt) Smiling while contributing to the degradation of the profession they practice. Although only a few locations are available now, those sites will grow exponentially through the years with all the new grads. Take a look at the pictures of the offices. You can see the walgreens theme already (http://walgreens.com/storelocator/find.jsp. the only hope is their business model fails (OCA stock is now trading at 38 cents and will soon be kicked off the exchange http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/article.asp?Feed=BW&Date=20051114&ID=5281073&Symbol=US:OCA ) or the ADA to not accredit any more schools. for all those who believe the myth there are a shortage or orthodontists, read Dr. Hans article:
Orthodontics & Craniofacial Research
Volume 7 Issue 3 Page 143 - August 2004
If the ADA keeps selling out and accrediting these programs, thus turning the profession into a commodity, investment bankers and corporations will soon no doubt turn to other specialties. Pedo, endo, perio.....why not? Money will be made no matter who takes it home in the dental profession.......it is appalling to see how willing D.D.S.'s are to let their hard work be taken home by M.B.A.'s. and corporate america though.

Quit cryin -- got one word for you -- reapply.

I don't know what the big deal is with ortho anyways. It will fast be loosing its prestige and soon its rewards. All of you will be working along side pharmacists, optometrist, and physical therapists. Or at least be considered analogous to these corner store, managed, para-professionals.

 

[molarama]

that hurts after the hard work and sacrifice that went in to getting in to a legitimate program. what even hurts more is looking at the newly minted OEC grads smiling faces on their websites which are all linked from Imagine Orthodontics. (http://www.imagineorthodontics.com/locations.php?location=ne.txt) Smiling while contributing to the degradation of the profession they practice. Although only a few locations are available now, those sites will grow exponentially through the years with all the new grads. Take a look at the pictures of the offices. You can see the walgreens theme already (http://walgreens.com/storelocator/find.jsp. the only hope is their business model fails (OCA stock is now trading at 38 cents and will soon be kicked off the exchange http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/article.asp?Feed=BW&Date=20051114&ID=5281073&Symbol=US:OCA ) or the ADA to not accredit any more schools. for all those who believe the myth there are a shortage or orthodontists, read Dr. Hans article:
Orthodontics & Craniofacial Research
Volume 7 Issue 3 Page 143 - August 2004
If the ADA keeps selling out and accrediting these programs, thus turning the profession into a commodity, investment bankers and corporations will soon no doubt turn to other specialties. Pedo, endo, perio.....why not? Money will be made no matter who takes it home in the dental profession.......it is appalling to see how willing D.D.S.'s are to let their hard work be taken home by M.B.A.'s. and corporate america though.

still don't understand why/how OEC got accredited. even though i never got into ortho, i refuse to apply to oec. i'll still apply to legit ortho programs next year b/c i think ortho's the way to go at least for the next 10-15 yrs. after that.....who knows....
hey no one answered my florida ortho fellowship questions/?????anyone??? i guess now the heat is on for those of us holding out for boston. i encourage those of us that didn't get in to keep plugging away. what's really messed up is a ortho faculty member told me that unfortunately admissions committee's are more impressed with a 98 board score new grad versus my 94 with tmj + masters fellowship. oh well if i had the 98 i probably would be saying otherwise.

 

[gryffindor]

Wow, thank you everyone for all of your kind words. Congrats to those who matched. For those who didn't, I feel your pain. It hurts a lot. 😡

There are a lot of points being brought up on this thread that I too didn't realize about the admissions process until the rejections came. I'll discuss them later. Very quickly though, I will say that I know I am extremely lucky to have matched (no ortho parents, no connections, not a 99 boards/rank #1 student, no good at kissing butt). And this entire process has left me very bitter and jaded, which is terrible because I am by nature a very nice and friendly person. Not to mention the expenses, reapplying isn't free.

 

[Jediwendell]

I know you are bitter about OEC. I guess they opened a practice right next door to you, but remember, this thing has to be profitable eventually. There's still no real proof that it will be. OCA isn't doing great financially. Hasn't pushed too many people out of business. I think we'll see the same thing with OEC. So just chill for a bit. These people just matched and you come in with this nonsense again. Just post it in another thread.

Quit cryin -- got one word for you -- reapply.

I don't know what the big deal is with ortho anyways. It will fast be loosing its prestige and soon its rewards. All of you will be working along side pharmacists, optometrist, and physical therapists. Or at least be considered analogous to these corner store, managed, para-professionals.

 

[DDSSlave]

wendell,

How did SA ortho do? Did you pick up a girl from UTSA? Just curious.

 

[Jediwendell]

Yup. We did very well overall. One from SA.

wendell,

How did SA ortho do? Did you pick up a girl from UTSA? Just curious.

 

[dort-ort]

I know you are bitter about OEC. I guess they opened a practice right next door to you, but remember, this thing has to be profitable eventually. There's still no real proof that it will be. OCA isn't doing great financially. Hasn't pushed too many people out of business. I think we'll see the same thing with OEC. So just chill for a bit. These people just matched and you come in with this nonsense again. Just post it in another thread.

Jediwendel,

sorry for appearing to rain on the parade. please disregard my post. ortho is cool. if i do say so myself. good job everyone. and good luck.

 

[jpollei]

A friend of mine at Baylor today told me that 4 of their 6 seats next year were matched by people from Baylor.

 

[DDSSlave]

Yup. We did very well overall. One from SA.

Awesome. Glad to hear it. If you see her, tell her the guys from Houston say hi.

 

[AmeliaBlastoma]

WOW! according to the match site that just opened up.....there are two ortho spots that did not fill this year. both at UNC?!?!?! what is going on. whoever didn't match needs to get on that!

From my sources at UNC, there was no mistake about submitting match lists, they simply did not rank enough people and were left with open spots, which were quickly "snatched" up by the opportunistic.

 

[Surfs up]

From my sources at UNC, there was no mistake about submitting match lists, they simply did not rank enough people and were left with open spots, which were quickly "snatched" up by the opportunistic.

If you look at the ortho match stats for this year, 2,341 total ranks were submitted by the 498 applicants who entered the match (assuming that every applicant submitted ranks to program that they interviewed at). Out of those 2,341 ranks, there was a total of 1,030 MUTUAL ranks (an actual tentatvie rank between program and applicant, and assuming that applicants ranked every one of THEIR interviews), meaning that programs only ranked ~44% of their interview pool. As I mentioned before, a great number of nice people spend the time, expense, effort, and stress to get a "good vibe" from a program to get a NO RANK by that program (0% chance to match at that program on match day, "drawing dead", etc.). 1,030 rank submissions by programs for 252 spots means that on average programs rank 4X down their list, while most interviews have a ratio of 7X or greater of # interviewees than spots. Programs do get cocky.

If you look at the stats some more, you see that 179 of the 252 positions were #1 choices for the applicants. In general, applicants rank their home dental school or a program in their region #1 because they don't want to move too far away from family. "Inbreeding" seems to be apparent at many ortho programs as half or a good number of spots are reserved for their own. As the saying goes, your best shot at ortho is at your own dental school. I hope this clears up some confusion about the match.

 

[greenday]

If anyone could share Penn and Uconn's match result, that would be great. 🙂

 

[Jone]

what if the ADA doesn't accredit anymore schools? then OEC will just be cranking out a whole bunch of "GP's" who happen to be very proficient orthodontists. maybe i'm missing something here, but i think they have the upper hand regardless...?

the only hope is their business model fails (OCA stock is now trading at 38 cents and will soon be kicked off the exchange http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/article.asp?Feed=BW&Date=20051114&ID=5281073&Symbol=US:OCA ) or the ADA to not accredit any more schools.

 

[antidentite]

what if the ADA doesn't accredit anymore schools? then OEC will just be cranking out a whole bunch of " GP's" who happen to be very proficient orthodontists. maybe i'm missing something here, but i think they have the upper hand regardless...?

huh? you can not market yourself as an orthodontist with a practice limited to such if you are not licensensed as one which is possible only by graduating from an accredited program or provisionally accredited program. how do you figure they could market G.P.'s as orthodontists? if they can't do this the business model is not practical. why would they be investing hundreds of millions into these schools when from your logic they could just take G.P.'s and open offices limited to orthodontics. the three current programs will most likely become accredited. thus OEC will own 20% of graduating orthodontists as is. they would like to open many more schools. the point being, if the ADA does not accredit any more schools, OEC's ownership of graduating orthondontists will remain at the 20% or so they have currently and not the 50% or so it could rise to if more schools are opened and accredited. seems to me the floodgates are open already.

 

[sdog]

I matched to St. Louis! another 3 year applicant veteran with little hope left. The fellows from Florida did well:
One matched to UF
One to Minnesota
Me at St. Louis
and one is going to Las vegas

 

[molarama]

I matched to St. Louis! another 3 year applicant veteran with little hope left. The fellows from Florida did well:
One matched to UF
One to Minnesota
Me at St. Louis
and one is going to Las vegas

sdog, thanks for the info and congrats! can you give me a little insight about the fellowship program??? what it consists of, cost, how many are accepted, etc?

 

[molarama]

sdog, thanks for the info and congrats! can you give me a little insight about the fellowship program??? what it consists of, cost, how many are accepted, etc?

just viewed the website which has cost and some more info now. did you guys spend 2 days a week in clinic? comprehensive cases, or more assisting on whatever comes in?

 

[dentalgent06]

If anyone could share Penn and Uconn's match result, that would be great. 🙂

I'm also interested in that info 🙂 and while we're at it what were match results at CWRU, Tufts, Stonybrook, Buffalo, Howard, Maryland....? It would be interesting to know stats on how many guys versus girls the programs took also

Congrats to all that matched!!!! I'm sure this site will become useless for ya'll now but any info of who got in where and their credentials would still be greatly appreciated by the rest of us 🙂

 

[dentalgent06]

and anyone know whatever happened with BU or LSU? Are their positions filled?

 

[ItsGavinC]

I MATCHED!!!!! FINALLY!!!!

I'm going to Vanderbilt.

Griffin, congrats! You've been through a lot but never given up hope.

 

[tooth_sleuth]

and anyone know whatever happened with BU or LSU? Are their positions filled?

Is BU Match? From what I heard, they're interviewing, at least this coming Fri....

Congrats to everyone who matched!! Life must be pretty good now 👍

 

[wayoutwest]

I hear that LSU's are filled, not sure if they do the match.

and anyone know whatever happened with BU or LSU? Are their positions filled?

 

[sendman]

I'm also interested in that info 🙂 and while we're at it what were match results at CWRU, Tufts, Stonybrook, Buffalo, Howard, Maryland....? It would be interesting to know stats on how many guys versus girls the programs took also

Congrats to all that matched!!!! I'm sure this site will become useless for ya'll now but any info of who got in where and their credentials would still be greatly appreciated by the rest of us 🙂

Maryland Match Results:
2 guys from maryland (both tied for #1)
1 girl from UPENN
1 guy from stonybrook

 

[sdog]

The fellowship is mostly assisting the 3rd (and some assisting of 1st and 2nd years in clinic). We have very limited exposure to our own patients. There is a tuition. The academic and clinical exposure is very helpful and it will help you get a better feel for ortho. and will most likely help you interview next year.

If you are looking to make money or get more exposure with patient care (ie: having your own patients), this is not the program for you.

If you want a better feel for ortho. and feel as if you need confidence interviewing or deciding on programs, this is a good experience.

I did a GPR last year so I got the best of both worlds, I guess.

 

[hitsbig]

In case anyone is interested and hasn't (or can't) view this on the MATCH website (www.natmatch.com/dentres)...

Number of Applicants Participating in the Match 498
Average Number of Ranks per Applicant 4.7
Applicants Matched 252
Participating Applicants Not Matched 246
Institutions Participating in the Match 50

Match Results by Rank on Applicant’s List Rank Number Number Matched
1 179
2 38
3 20
4 8
5 2
6 or higher 5

Distribution of Positions to Programs Number of Positions Number of Programs
1 4
2 2
3 8
4 13
5 8
6 8
7 6
8 or more 4

jpollei, word is out that you were among those in the 246 group. Much like the other 245, no schools ranked you in their top group? I've enjoyed re-reading your posts with this in mind.

 

[Surfs up]

Much like the other 245, no schools ranked you in their top group?

Or get ranked PERIOD, if that was the case. The match is so unperfect. Consider this example: programs don't like taking in 2 or more interviewees from the same dental school in the same year (unless it's at the home dental school). How do directors prevent this from happening? Either space the rankings for the candidates from the same dental school far enough, or only rank 1 candidate & leave the others from that school unranked so that you don't end up w/ a match disaster. If you are going to interviews w/ your classmates at outside interviews, they are YOUR greatest competition & you have to concede that only 1 of you will get ranked (if even high enough) in most cases. If they get rid of match & have an acceptance week after interviews where they notify candidates like they do for interviews (call, find out yes or no, adjust to changes & cancellations & move down the list), 2 people from the same school could theoretically be tied for an acceptance position--if candidate A turns it down, it goes to candidate B from the same school, & if A accepts B gets screwed as w/ match. With match, A & B would likely NEVER be ranked back to back as both could end up matching at the same place & that would be a director's worst nightmare. It's a shame that it comes down to where you come from rather than you as a person in a lot of cases.

 

[wayoutwest]

Amen. Too many good applicants from my school...

Or get ranked PERIOD, if that was the case. The match is so unperfect. Consider this example: programs don't like taking in 2 or more interviewees from the same dental school in the same year (unless it's at the home dental school). How do directors prevent this from happening? Either space the rankings for the candidates from the same dental school far enough, or only rank 1 candidate & leave the others from that school unranked so that you don't end up w/ a match disaster. If you are going to interviews w/ your classmates at outside interviews, they are YOUR greatest competition & you have to concede that only 1 of you will get ranked (if even high enough) in most cases. If they get rid of match & have an acceptance week after interviews where they notify candidates like they do for interviews (call, find out yes or no, adjust to changes & cancellations & move down the list), 2 people from the same school could theoretically be tied for an acceptance position--if candidate A turns it down, it goes to candidate B from the same school, & if A accepts B gets screwed as w/ match. With match, A & B would likely NEVER be ranked back to back as both could end up matching at the same place & that would be a director's worst nightmare. It's a shame that it comes down to where you come from rather than you as a person in a lot of cases.

 

[AmeliaBlastoma]

jpollei, word is out that you were among those in the 246 group. Much like the other 245, no schools ranked you in their top group? I've enjoyed re-reading your posts with this in mind.

It's not hard to figure out why he didn't match by reading his old posts. The attitude of superiority and "know-it-all" that you get from his written posts is ten times worse in person.

 

[jpollei]

It's not hard to figure out why he didn't match by reading his old posts. The attitude of superiority and "know-it-all" that you get from his written posts is ten times worse in person.

Ouch, that hurts. Not much I can say... Sorry you got that impression.

Hope it makes you feel better to throw that out there.

 

[Rezdawg]

It's not hard to figure out why he didn't match by reading his old posts. The attitude of superiority and "know-it-all" that you get from his written posts is ten times worse in person.

Damn dude, chill. Ive been reading these boards and I never got that impression.

 

[jpollei]

Damn dude, chill. Ive been reading these boards and I never got that impression.

Good to hear someone besides my wife thinks that. 🙂

 

[adamlc18]

It's not hard to figure out why he didn't match by reading his old posts. The attitude of superiority and "know-it-all" that you get from his written posts is ten times worse in person.

Harsh. This post sounds more like a personal attack than an observation. I noticed you just joined SDN. I imagine you have another name that you use regularly on here. It's pretty cowardly to make untoward comments about others while hiding who you really are.

 

[esclavo]

It's not hard to figure out why he didn't match by reading his old posts. The attitude of superiority and "know-it-all" that you get from his written posts is ten times worse in person.

You're just mad because you probably felt even more inferior in person than you did by reading how much mental effort he put into understanding his quest to do ortho. It sucks to meet people who want what you want but even more, and then realize they put in 10 X the effort to understand the process. It sucks to know you might not be in the same boat. If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch.... and quit your yappying like a chihuahua

 

[ItsGavinC]

Let's keep the low blows out of it. And, remember not to take much stock in anything somebody with "0+" posts has to say.

 

[UNLV OMS GUNNABE]

You know what, if all these accusations are true I'm glad someone said it. I hate the people who give all this advice and then they don't even match. Some pre-docs actually listen to people's advice on here and a lot of it is garbage. I would rather hear the truth from someone with 0+ posts than a bunch of smoke from someone with thousands of posts.

 

[ItsGavinC]

I would rather hear the truth from someone with 0+ posts than a bunch of smoke from someone with thousands of posts.

Right, because creating a username simply to bash others isn't smoke at all.

 

[UNLV OMS GUNNABE]

Right, because creating a username simply to bash others isn't smoke at all.

If it's true it's not bashing. Pretending you matched instead of post-matching is a lot thicker smoke if you ask me.

 

[gryffindor]

If it's true it's not bashing. Pretending you matched instead of post-matching is a lot thicker smoke if you ask me.

Seriously, whoever it is that got those 2 post-match spots is REALLY friggin lucky for not having to sit out another year, reapply, and stress.

 

[ItsGavinC]

If it's true it's not bashing. Pretending you matched instead of post-matching is a lot thicker smoke if you ask me.

Gotcha. I'm not up-to-speed with the matching process entirely, so when somebody says "I matched at..." I simply assume that they'll be matriculating to that program the following year. I didn't break it down into the fact that post-matching is different from matching, and therefore saying one matched when one actually post-matched is not being completely honest.

 

[jpollei]

Gotcha. I'm not up-to-speed with the matching process entirely, so when somebody says "I matched at..." I simply assume that they'll be matriculating to that program the following year. I didn't break it down into the fact that post-matching is different from matching, and therefore saying one matched when one actually post-matched is not being completely honest.

I don't think even the folks at match know exactly how their process works...
I'd kind of looked at "matched at" the same as you did Gavin. Guess I should thank UNLV for enlightening me as well (semantics aren't a strenght of mine...maybe because my last English class was almost 10 years ago in high school). 😀

 

[Surfs up]

(semantics aren't a strenght of mine...maybe because my last English class was almost 10 years ago in high school). 😀

Spelling doesn't appear to be a "strength" of yours either. You'll be very easy to spot at ortho meetings with your last name advertised all over SDN.

 

[jpollei]

Spelling doesn't appear to be a "strength" of yours either. You'll be very easy to spot at ortho meetings with your last name advertised all over SDN.

Obviously not...thanks for pointing it out. The bald spot makes me easy to find in addition to the name (although that's probably not so unique among orthodontists). 🙂 Say hi if you see me...I enjoy putting faces of SNDers with their names.

 

[UNLV OMS GUNNABE]

I love everyone.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Nice try dude but when you have to post-match at the school you attend it says something. It is definately not the same as matching.

Is that really true, or is it just one of the inherant weakness of a match-type application system?

I mean, a school can only rank so many candidates, right?

 

[ItsGavinC]

...and as an aside, does it *really* matter if somebody post-matched or not (I'm asking this as a honest question). In this case, the dude matched (er, post-matched) to ortho at his home school, which has a frickin' sweet program. It seems there are probably hundreds of applicants that WISH they could be in his shoes.

 

[Supernova2008]

Post-match...match...non-match...It doesn't really matter. The bottom line is, he was accepted into arguably the most competitive specialty program at one of the most well respected dental schools in the country...'nuff said

Nice try dude but when you have to post-match at the school you attend it says something. It is definately not the same as matching.

 

[Surfs up]

I mean, a school can only rank so many candidates, right?

Programs could rank all of their interviewees, but they don't. Enough said.