Anesthetist Shortage?

[zoner]

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Hey all

I am doing some research into AA field and was wondering if there really was a shortage in the field of AA or CRNA? I keep hearing that from websites from institutions whose self interests are to get more applicants and AA as much as possible, but I was just wondering wjhat the reality was like.

 

[IlDestriero]

The market is poor for CRNAs in my desirable city. Lower pay and few permanent openings. We hire one a year, maybe. Even though the salary is low we get many applicants a year. When we do interview a couple people they usually have years of peds experience.

 

[jwk]

There is huge regional variation in manpower needs. Some states are pretty loaded or overloaded, like Florida. Other states are begging for people. The bigger or more desirable the city, the more desirable the climate, the supply is usually much closer to the demand. The smaller and perceived less desirable areas, demand is usually significantly higher than supply.

 

[zoner]

The market is poor for CRNAs in my desirable city. Lower pay and few permanent openings. We hire one a year, maybe. Even though the salary is low we get many applicants a year. When we do interview a couple people they usually have years of peds experience.

What city would that be?

 

[zoner]

There is huge regional variation in manpower needs. Some states are pretty loaded or overloaded, like Florida. Other states are begging for people. The bigger or more desirable the city, the more desirable the climate, the supply is usually much closer to the demand. The smaller and perceived less desirable areas, demand is usually significantly higher than supply.

so what you are saying is that overall, there is no shortage because it is just a matter of CRNAS or AA relocating.

 

[IlDestriero]

What city would that be?

That's not information that I generally share. There is probably plenty of opportunity in the rural south and Midwest, and in the smaller cities there as well. Desirable locations on the coasts and large full service cities are going to be a different story.

 

[jwk]

so what you are saying is that overall, there is no shortage because it is just a matter of CRNAS or AA relocating.

I think the general perception is that there is an over-production of CRNA's at the moment - whether or not that is correct I'm not sure. I do know there are far too many schools concentrated in some states, such as Florida and North Carolina. There's roughly 2000 CRNA's coming out of school each year at the moment.

AA's are in a little different position, although the same concepts that IlDest is talking about apply in many ways. More desirable areas and bigger cities tend to have less demand because the supply wants to work there. Where AA's are seeing some advantages is in practices where the anesthesiologists are getting fed up with CRNA politics and "training their replacements" since many CRNA's consider themselves equal to anesthesiologists. So - they can hire someone that would just as soon stab them in the back, or hire someone that will work with them. It's that easy - and it's happening in a number of practices I'm aware of - although I'm not giving that away. 😉

 

[zoner]

So would you say that AA is a good career path to go into? When only the reason why AA is getting any more marketable is due to the politics between anesth and CRNAS.

One thing that is important for me is that I want to decide where I want to live within limitation that currently AA can practice in only 18 states.

 

[saratoga733]

So would you say that AA is a good career path to go into? When only the reason why AA is getting any more marketable is due to the politics between anesth and CRNAS.

One thing that is important for me is that I want to decide where I want to live within limitation that currently AA can practice in only 18 states.

The preference is clear as far as who MDs prefer to hire AA>>CRNA. The only limiting factor at the moment is the small number of AA availability and state licensing. This will change in time as Anesthesiologists realize they need to stop training nurses and support AA schools. I believe the harder crnas push for independence the quicker this shift will take place.

 

[zoner]

The preference is clear as far as who MDs prefer to hire AA>>CRNA. The only limiting factor at the moment is the small number of AA availability and state licensing. This will change in time as Anesthesiologists realize they need to stop training nurses and support AA schools. I believe the harder crnas push for independence the quicker this shift will take place.

So what it sounds like to me is that AA is really created and pushed by the medical institution in a sense to resolve the politics between CRNAS and MDA? Am I right? I mean does the MDA really have much saying in whom the hospital admin will hire or train? Aren't MDA getting paid by the hospitals? If you guys don't train CRNAS because they are competing with you guys, then who is to say that hospitals will just find another MDA that will trains CRNAS?

 

[pretenda]

So what it sounds like to me is that AA is really created and pushed by the medical institution in a sense to resolve the politics between CRNAS and MDA? Am I right? I mean does the MDA really have much saying in whom the hospital admin will hire or train? Aren't MDA getting paid by the hospitals? If you guys don't train CRNAS because they are competing with you guys, then who is to say that hospitals will just find another MDA that will trains CRNAS?

not really at all since they were "created" when nurses werent even getting masters degrees to deliver anesthesia and there were no politics/debate over who the brain should be behind the curtain

they were "created" to expand care...the exact same reason rna's are "competing with you guys"...or at least the exact same reason rna's claim to be necessary to "compete with you guys"

 

[SitraAchra]

So what it sounds like to me is that AA is really created and pushed by the medical institution in a sense to resolve the politics between CRNAS and MDA? Am I right? I mean does the MDA really have much saying in whom the hospital admin will hire or train? Aren't MDA getting paid by the hospitals? If you guys don't train CRNAS because they are competing with you guys, then who is to say that hospitals will just find another MDA that will trains CRNAS?

First of all, stop hanging out with midlevels because if I ever get called an 'MDA' in the OR I swear I'll never give you a lunch break and you'll be last to leave every time.

There is no such degree or position as 'MDA' - it is a thinly veiled attempt by CRNAs to try and drag us down to their level, that of a midlevel. Let the nurses have their BSN RN MSNBC degrees that nobody knows what the hell they mean.

I have an MD which is the exact same as every surgeon, internist, or pediatrician you've ever met. Same goes for our DO bretheren. You pre-health CRNA spies blow your cover immediately with that nonsense.

 

[zoner]

First of all, stop hanging out with midlevels because if I ever get called an 'MDA' in the OR I swear I'll never give you a lunch break and you'll be last to leave every time.

There is no such degree or position as 'MDA' - it is a thinly veiled attempt by CRNAs to try and drag us down to their level, that of a midlevel. Let the nurses have their BSN RN MSNBC degrees that nobody knows what the hell they mean.

I have an MD which is the exact same as every surgeon, internist, or pediatrician you've ever met. Same goes for our DO bretheren. You pre-health CRNA spies blow your cover immediately with that nonsense.

dude, whatever man, just chill, i picked that up from all the research/reading i've been doing. get over your ego, i just didn't feel like writing down the whole ANESTHESIOLOGIST doctor which you are no?

 

[Stank811]

Zoner...I am fairly confident over the next five years everyone will see an exponential growth in the use of AA's, states were AA's are licensed, and AA schools. Which you are right will be largely driven by the need to create a group of midlevel practitioners that we can work with and support without having to deal with a malignant group of nurse midlevel providers.

 

[Bertelman]

dude, whatever man, just chill, i picked that up from all the research/reading i've been doing. get over your ego, i just didn't feel like writing down the whole ANESTHESIOLOGIST doctor which you are no?

If you don't feel like writing down anesthesiologist, try MD. Either way, the responses generated to your questions have taken more effort on our part than writing "anesthesiologist". It's really not that hard.

Anesthesiologist. There. I did it three times on my phone.

 

[zoner]

If you don't feel like writing down anesthesiologist, try MD. Either way, the responses generated to your questions have taken more effort on our part than writing "anesthesiologist". It's really not that hard.

Anesthesiologist. There. I did it three times on my phone.

ok

 

[Jay K]

There is no such degree or position as 'MDA'

Not to mention my D.O. partners dislike being referred to as DOA...

 

[countingdays]

So what it sounds like to me is that AA is really created and pushed by the medical institution in a sense to resolve the politics between CRNAS and MDA? Am I right? I mean does the MDA really have much saying in whom the hospital admin will hire or train? Aren't MDA getting paid by the hospitals? If you guys don't train CRNAS because they are competing with you guys, then who is to say that hospitals will just find another MDA that will trains CRNAS?

For the most part, the hospital administration has nothing to do with AAs or RNAs. MD partners contract with the hospital to cover a number of ORs in the day, ORs at night, L&D, etc. The hospital administration couldn't care less whether the group hires AAs or nurses or goes all MD, as long as the rooms are available, turnovers are quick, and surgeons are happy. The limiting factor with AAs is availablility. That may not always be the case.

 

[imfrankie]

"The hospital administration couldn't care less whether the group hires AAs or nurses or goes all MD, as long as the rooms are available, turnovers are quick, and surgeons are happy. "

...and increasingly, whether they can skim some money off the top.

Remember Mr. or Mrs. original poster, it is the insurance or government payor who pays the anesthesia bill originally. Others like to wedge themselves in between and take a cut--the Dean, or the "partner", or the hospital, or the management company. "How can we take some of this money that is expressly designated as reimbursement for a specific anesthetic?"

How much can you skim off and still get good product? Every middleman's dilemma.

 

[imfrankie]

good product --> good enough

 

[sevoflurane]

how much can you skim off and still get good product? Every middleman's dilemma.

= amc

 

[CodeBlu]

Not to mention my D.O. partners dislike being referred to as DOA...