Anesthesiologist shortage 12k by 2033

[Hoya11]

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Large groups can no longer negotiate rates either. Payers will just go to arbitration . With CRNA salaries approaching an average of 250k nationwide (already above that in some areas)for a 4 day work week, ASCs aren’t the home runs they used to be when CRNAs salaries were 150k.

Just like hospitals, many need stipends now too, even if staffed with large amc groups-remember amcs target 25% profit margins.

Not True.

If you have a busy ortho center and good payer mix in combination with 75 percentile or more payer rates, your going to kill it..

Most of the stipend necessity for larger groups like AMCs and hospitals is about compensation for times when case volumes are low (on call/overnight) and/or payer mix is poor.

 

[aneftp]

our overnight calls have definitely been getting tougher. more cases. hospital busier overall. and currently we get no extra pay for call except for weekend call

As long as the hours even out weekdays

Do u come in at 5-7pm? Work to 7 pm? So at least u have the daytime to run errands /rest plus post call day off.

Or a it a true 24 hr weekday call? That’s a tougher bullet to bite.

 

[deleted643396]

our overnight calls have definitely been getting tougher. more cases. hospital busier overall. and currently we get no extra pay for call except for weekend call

You get no extra pay for call? Do you mean that day docs make the same as call-takers? If calls are busy then I imagine your post-call days are not productive because you are sleeping/recovering. If the above are true then why do call?

 

[anbuitachi]

As long as the hours even out weekdays

Do u come in at 5-7pm? Work to 7 pm? So at least u have the daytime to run errands /rest plus post call day off.

Or a it a true 24 hr weekday call? That’s a tougher bullet to bite.

You get no extra pay for call? Do you mean that day docs make the same as call-takers? If calls are busy then I imagine your post-call days are not productive because you are sleeping/recovering. If the above are true then why do call?

our calls are 16 hrs. 4p to 8a

pre call i can use to do errands yes. post call i always sleep. there are some folks who can do errands despite being up all night. thats not me...
we dont have a choice. everyone takes call pretty much, except like 1 or 2 special cases.

 

[Coffee PRN]

The real money is in the 24 hour continuously billing for calls especially on weekends for locums.
But 700-800k for 50 plus hours locums sounds right.

If you can find spots for 65 hours weekends calls to integrate at least 2x a month. You can almost double your current money plus maintain your weeks off at 8. But it’s always a fight for those weekend calls slots with locums.

I’ve notice in this market. The full time w2 staff like to ride the 1099 locums hard during daytime. And full time w2 staff like to take incentivized extra calls usually weeknights. (avoiding the busier daytime work) plus get paid extra. So full time w2 docs amc salary around 500k really hit close to 700k working only 45 hours. While maintaining their 10 weeks paid time off

Many ways to game the system. W2 or 1099

So it’s a symbiotic relationship between full time w2 doc in short staffing situations and 1099 docs.

I hear what you’re saying. I may be in the minority when I prefer working two day shifts to a 24h shift.

our calls are 16 hrs. 4p to 8a

pre call i can use to do errands yes. post call i always sleep. there are some folks who can do errands despite being up all night. thats not me...
we dont have a choice. everyone takes call pretty much, except like 1 or 2 special cases.

what is your call frequency and salary? 4 p to 8 a sounds miserable

 

[aneftp]

our overnight calls have definitely been getting tougher. more cases. hospital busier overall. and currently we get no extra pay for call except for weekend call

I think many practices will eventually move to night float system. Regardless if it’s in house or beeper.

With post week night float off for extra weeks of vacation. So 8 weeks is the standard vacation that would make it 16 weeks off

10 weeks vacation means 20 weeks off. “Off the books”

 

[anbuitachi]

I hear what you’re saying. I may be in the minority when I prefer working two day shifts to a 24h shift.

what is your call frequency and salary? 4 p to 8 a sounds miserable

overnight call including weekend, is 4 per month. so roughly 1 per week on avg.
salary is between 325 to 360 depending on seniority

 

[triggermaster]

gh

I think many practices will eventually move to night float system. Regardless if it’s in house or beeper.

With post week night float off for extra weeks of vacation. So 8 weeks is the standard vacation that would make it 16 weeks off

10 weeks vacation means 20 weeks off. “Off the books”

post night float isn’t vacation but yeah you could earn lots of full weeks without work.

 

[Coffee PRN]

overnight call including weekend, is 4 per month. so roughly 1 per week on avg.
salary is between 325 to 360 depending on seniority

That seems drastically underpaid

 

[aneftp]

I hear what you’re saying. I may be in the minority when I prefer working two day shifts to a 24h shift.

what is your call frequency and salary? 4 p to 8 a sounds miserable

4p-8am is normal.

Just like 3p-7am.

 

[Simba1711]

That seems drastically underpaid

Yeah you deserve to be compensated more

 

[finalpsychyear]

overnight call including weekend, is 4 per month. so roughly 1 per week on avg.
salary is between 325 to 360 depending on seniority

2015-16 pay in 2024...

 

[anbuitachi]

admin says we will get a raise any year now

 

[aneftp]

admin says we will get a raise any year now

Unfortunately unless there is. Mass exodus’s. They ain’t gonna to do anything. I’ve learned than

Chatter is nothing. Mass resignation. And I mean 3-4 at a time rings alarms bells.

Hospital employed in the area kept milking these docs w2. 4 docs leaving. Including chief. Magically got incentive based stipends extra work to increase pay by 125k plus.

Base pay went up by 40k as well.

 

[anbuitachi]

Unfortunately unless there is. Mass exodus’s. They ain’t gonna to do anything. I’ve learned than

Chatter is nothing. Mass resignation. And I mean 3-4 at a time rings alarms bells.

Hospital employed in the area kept milking these docs w2. 4 docs leaving. Including chief. Magically got incentive based stipends extra work to increase pay by 125k plus.

Base pay went up by 40k as well.

definitely agree. we are trying to convince some people to leave so the rest of us can get a raise

 

[aneftp]

definitely agree. we are trying to convince some people to leave so the rest of us can get a raise

Starts with YOU! Make one first move.

I left my job. And the other docs got 40k pay raises after I left.

I don’t look back. I look forward.

 

[pgg]

definitely agree. we are trying to convince some people to leave so the rest of us can get a raise

Dude.

Just ....

Dude.

 

[deleted643396]

definitely agree. we are trying to convince some people to leave so the rest of us can get a raise

 

[Coffee PRN]

definitely agree. we are trying to convince some people to leave so the rest of us can get a raise

Work together, you as a collective have a lot more negotiating power than you may realize. Talk. Decide on a number and stick to it. Get everyone on board and willing to walk away en masse if admin doesn’t budge.

 

[anbuitachi]

Work together, you as a collective have a lot more negotiating power than you may realize. Talk. Decide on a number and stick to it. Get everyone on board and willing to walk away en masse if admin doesn’t budge.

we have a good % of anesthesiologists who refuse to leave regardless of what happens... theyd stay even if salary was 200k. i dont understand why and i guess i never will. these folks have been here for decades. i guess they just HATE change. these folks are in their late 50s and early/mid 60s. last time i asked one of them (hes 65) if he plans on retiring soon, his answer was not for at least another 10 years... and he plans on retiring here

 

[Simba1711]

It’s hard to leave a job. You are familiar with the surgeons and hospital. You may have family or kids and bought a home nearby.

I left my first job and 3 other people left right after me and this was an 8 anesthesiologist private practice group. After I left, everybody got a raise and they had to get a bigger stipend from the hospital to recruit and give out the higher salary.

 

[aneftp]

It’s hard to leave a job. You are familiar with the surgeons and hospital. You may have family or kids and bought a home nearby.

I left my first job and 3 other people left right after me and this was an 8 anesthesiologist private practice group. After I left, everybody got a raise and they had to get a bigger stipend from the hospital to recruit and give out the higher salary.

In this day and age. If u live an urban or surburan area which 80% of the country lives in one hour of major international airports. Which means there is high likely chance you have multiple job choices with driving distance.

 

[Simba1711]

I agree with. I’m just trying to rationalize it’s easier said than done to leave job and why people might stay.

 

[Simba1711]

Are you guys able to recruit enough staff with that salary ? Seems low with that call frequency

 

[GassYous]

we have a good % of anesthesiologists who refuse to leave regardless of what happens... theyd stay even if salary was 200k. i dont understand why and i guess i never will. these folks have been here for decades. i guess they just HATE change. these folks are in their late 50s and early/mid 60s. last time i asked one of them (hes 65) if he plans on retiring soon, his answer was not for at least another 10 years... and he plans on retiring here

Well yeah they can't retire because they're not getting paid enough

 

[aneftp]

we have a good % of anesthesiologists who refuse to leave regardless of what happens... theyd stay even if salary was 200k. i dont understand why and i guess i never will. these folks have been here for decades. i guess they just HATE change. these folks are in their late 50s and early/mid 60s. last time i asked one of them (hes 65) if he plans on retiring soon, his answer was not for at least another 10 years... and he plans on retiring here

The Veteran administration recently raised their pay for doctors eventually to go over the 400k cap. So many Va hospitals pay increase to 350-400k.

You might as well join a VA hospital nearby if they think they want job security with better benefits especially if they are in late 50s. Perfect time to join VA hospital. My friend in the north gets paid 400k straight now at VA. Easy job. He was 340k. Plus then get a “bonus” 15k also annually. And yearly pay raises. (Not much) but it adds up.

 

[deleted87051]

The Veteran administration recently raised their pay for doctors eventually to go over the 400k cap. So many Va hospitals pay increase to 350-400k.

You might as well join a VA hospital nearby if they think they want job security with better benefits especially if they are in late 50s. Perfect time to join VA hospital. My friend in the north gets paid 400k straight now at VA. Easy job. He was 340k. Plus then get a “bonus” 15k also annually. And yearly pay raises. (Not much) but it adds up.

This looks like a contractor position at the Minneapolis VA.

GasWork.com - Reference #446892

 

[sbmed100]

Do we have a shortage? Yes we do. FT work is 40 hours. If you are working more than 40, there's probably some type of shortage. Or you can simply define shortage by market supply vs demand, in which case we also have a shortage. Neither of these are 'artificial' though. Im not really sure what artificial means. I guess if government creates a regulation that suddenly changes what is allowed, then it could be 'artificial'

Like complete CRNA independence?
Also, people on here not being realistic with how many CRNAs and residents will be graduating each summer, it's a lot higher than the numbers being thrown around...nearly 2,000 CA3s graduating yearly soon.

 

[deleted643396]

Like complete CRNA independence?
Also, people on here not being realistic with how many CRNAs and residents will be graduating each summer, it's a lot higher than the numbers being thrown around...nearly 2,000 CA3s graduating yearly soon.

Or the shortage could last until the last of the baby boomers die off. Health care utilization continues to increase and with that, so does demand for our services. It’s not just the operating room either. We have an ever increasing presence outside of the operating room…MRI, TEE, cath lab, IR, etc. Is the increasing demand for our services going to be outpaced by graduating CRNAs and residents? I have no idea, but I do know that it is pointless to try and predict. Find the best situation for you right now where your labor is paid for at an appropriate level. That is all you can and should do.

 

[Maz777]

The Veteran administration recently raised their pay for doctors eventually to go over the 400k cap. So many Va hospitals pay increase to 350-400k.

You might as well join a VA hospital nearby if they think they want job security with better benefits especially if they are in late 50s. Perfect time to join VA hospital. My friend in the north gets paid 400k straight now at VA. Easy job. He was 340k. Plus then get a “bonus” 15k also annually. And yearly pay raises. (Not much) but it adds up.

Do you have a source for this pay increase cap? Would love to read about it.

 

[thinkorswim]

we have a good % of anesthesiologists who refuse to leave regardless of what happens... theyd stay even if salary was 200k. i dont understand why and i guess i never will.

Not to pile on here, but look in the mirror my friend. You have been posting here about how terrible your job and income are for years now.

You also live in the largest metro area in the country. I have no doubt you can find a better job in the area within a reasonable commute, if not literally down the street.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Not True.

If you have a busy ortho center and good payer mix in combination with 75 percentile or more payer rates, your going to kill it..

Most of the stipend necessity for larger groups like AMCs and hospitals is about compensation for times when case volumes are low (on call/overnight) and/or payer mix is poor.

Anesthesia reimbursement declines, along with demographic trends and case volume shifts, have drastically changed the ways that providers approach anesthesia coverage, according to a Jan. 16 blog post from Coronis Health.

Medicare payments for anesthesia "do not begin to cover the cost of providing care," according to the post. The average anesthesia rate for 2023 was $21.88, a 5.5% decline from 2019, according to a review of six Coronis clients' anesthesia data.

If an anesthesia provider generates 10,000 billable units and its only source of payment is Medicare, the total revenue potential is only $218,000, the report said, assuming that all revenue could be collected. This deficit has pushed anesthesia providers to non-Medicare plans and hospital support.

This challenge is compounded by the size of the Medicare population. Currently, around 18% of Americans are covered by Medicare, and this number is expected to increase as the population ages.

Coronis also found that outpatient cases have increased. In its analysis, the total billed units generated in outpatient venues increased from 52% in 2019 to 60% in 2023. There has also been an increase of patients who have opted for HMO plans, which could make it more difficult for anesthesia providers to secure reimbursements.

Additionally, an increase in anesthesia for endoscopy and colonoscopy has also created new challenges. Coding changes have reduced the base value for most cases, diminishing the revenue potential.


Beckers ASC

 

[aneftp]

Anesthesia reimbursement declines, along with demographic trends and case volume shifts, have drastically changed the ways that providers approach anesthesia coverage, according to a Jan. 16 blog post from Coronis Health.

Medicare payments for anesthesia "do not begin to cover the cost of providing care," according to the post. The average anesthesia rate for 2023 was $21.88, a 5.5% decline from 2019, according to a review of six Coronis clients' anesthesia data.

If an anesthesia provider generates 10,000 billable units and its only source of payment is Medicare, the total revenue potential is only $218,000, the report said, assuming that all revenue could be collected. This deficit has pushed anesthesia providers to non-Medicare plans and hospital support.

This challenge is compounded by the size of the Medicare population. Currently, around 18% of Americans are covered by Medicare, and this number is expected to increase as the population ages.

Coronis also found that outpatient cases have increased. In its analysis, the total billed units generated in outpatient venues increased from 52% in 2019 to 60% in 2023. There has also been an increase of patients who have opted for HMO plans, which could make it more difficult for anesthesia providers to secure reimbursements.

Additionally, an increase in anesthesia for endoscopy and colonoscopy has also created new challenges. Coding changes have reduced the base value for most cases, diminishing the revenue potential.


Beckers ASC

The real issue is we are extremely overpaid for commercial insurance (if larger entities negotiate) higher commercial rates at over $120-unit to $150/unit IN NETWORK

Smaller entities can only hope for $60-80 a unit commercial rate

Surgery gets 60/65% of Medicare rates.

And no one wants to give an inch with Medicare rates

If Medicare rates were say $40/unit and commercial were $70/unit It would be more sustainable revenue model.

 

[Hoya11]

The real issue is we are extremely overpaid for commercial insurance (if larger entities negotiate) higher commercial rates at over $120-unit to $150/unit IN NETWORK

Smaller entities can only hope for $60-80 a unit commercial rate

Surgery gets 60/65% of Medicare rates.

And no one wants to give an inch with Medicare rates

If Medicare rates were say $40/unit and commercial were $70/unit It would be more sustainable revenue model.

I dont see it like that.

I see it that the commercial rates are the fair rates.

A private group has an office, consultants, admin staff - its not all going to the doc.

And you also don't collect on some percentage of your commercial earnings due to inappropriate denials or errors..

As blade has pointed out, I view the medicare rates as so low as to be non-sustainable.

You can't make it as a private group on mostly government insurance - agree on that.

As for comparing to other specialties, its hard to compare apples to apples because unlike in our world, government insurance pays well for some surgical stuff.. look at the medicare facility fee for cataracts vs our fees.. or even dextenza use for cataracts.. total waste of medicare money while we are barely getting by offsetting with commercial

 

[kidthor]

I dont see it like that.

I see it that the commercial rates are the fair rates.

A private group has an office, consultants, admin staff - its not all going to the doc.

And you also don't collect on some percentage of your commercial earnings due to inappropriate denials or errors..

As blade has pointed out, I view the medicare rates as so low as to be non-sustainable.

You can't make it as a private group on mostly government insurance - agree on that.

As for comparing to other specialties, its hard to compare apples to apples because unlike in our world, government insurance pays well for some surgical stuff.. look at the medicare facility fee for cataracts vs our fees.. or even dextenza use for cataracts.. total waste of medicare money while we are barely getting by offsetting with commercial

Medicare is pretty bad for the surgeon fees often too, but the facility fees are nuts.

A family friend recently had an inguinal hernia surgery under Medicare. Anesthesia fee paid was about $200, surgeon fee about $500, facility fee was about $20,000.

 

[aneftp]

I dont see it like that.

I see it that the commercial rates are the fair rates.

A private group has an office, consultants, admin staff - its not all going to the doc.

And you also don't collect on some percentage of your commercial earnings due to inappropriate denials or errors..

As blade has pointed out, I view the medicare rates as so low as to be non-sustainable.

You can't make it as a private group on mostly government insurance - agree on that.

As for comparing to other specialties, its hard to compare apples to apples because unlike in our world, government insurance pays well for some surgical stuff.. look at the medicare facility fee for cataracts vs our fees.. or even dextenza use for cataracts.. total waste of medicare money while we are barely getting by offsetting with commercial

A surgeon getting $600 for a gallbladder while anesthesia gets $1200 (commercial) for 45 min to one hour of billable units

Or a gi doc getting $300 for a scope and anesthesia gets $600. (Commercial) for a 15-20 min procedure

You really think that’s fair?

That’s the 800 pound gorilla in the room with anesthesia billing units.

And no. Smaller anesthesia private practice do not have a lot of overhead. I’ve been in a few. Office manager (we paid her 80k, of course she stole 300k before I caught it, but most of it was before I arrived and I audited the expenses from the previous year) , billing company (5-6%), that’s all you really need. Talking about a 10-12 million dollar anesthesia revenue collections anesthesia practice with 10 docs and 20 crnas. Very little overhead.

 

[Hoya11]

A surgeon getting $600 for a gallbladder while anesthesia gets $1200 (commercial) for 45 min to one hour of billable units

Or a gi doc getting $300 for a scope and anesthesia gets $600. (Commercial) for a 15-20 min procedure

You really think that’s fair?

That’s the 800 pound gorilla in the room with anesthesia billing units.

And no. Smaller anesthesia private practice do not have a lot of overhead. I’ve been in a few. Office manager (we paid her 80k, of course she stole 300k before I caught it, but most of it was before I arrived and I audited the expenses from the previous year) , billing company (5-6%), that’s all you really need. Talking about a 10-12 million dollar anesthesia revenue collections anesthesia practice with 10 docs and 20 crnas. Very little overhead.

yes i think the commercial rates are fair.. the surgeons also get a cut of the facility fee either directly or indirectly keep in mind.

i think its interesting that you have such sympathy for the insurance companies..

and why is that an 800lb gorilla? you are under the impression we are secretly getting rich inappropriately?

if all payers paid 100/unit the world would be a better place and i wouldnt feel bad for the insurance companies one bit..

 

[gunnershow]

yes i think the commercial rates are fair.. the surgeons also get a cut of the facility fee either directly or indirectly keep in mind.

i think its interesting that you have such sympathy for the insurance companies..

and why is that an 800lb gorilla? you are under the impression we are secretly getting rich inappropriately? whos side are you on man?

if all payers paid 100/unit the world would be a better place and i wouldnt feel bad for the insurance companies one bit..

This guy consistently has some of the strangest boomer takes. He constantly shills for taking in-house call for a week straight making $60k a week (as long as you have a CRNA doing all the work for you and never waking you up at night), but now apparently anesthesia gets paid too much by insurance?

 

[ASA6]

This guy consistently has some of the strangest boomer takes. He constantly shills for taking in-house call for a week straight making $60k a week (as long as you have a CRNA doing all the work for you and never waking you up at night), but now apparently anesthesia gets paid too much by insurance?

Also is it even true? I had a shoulder scope and the surgeon got 1700 from insurance and the anesthesiologist got like 500, including a block. Just one anecdote, but I'm not sure we are billing more than the surgeons.

 

[deleted1130227]

Also is it even true? I had a shoulder scope and the surgeon got 1700 from insurance and the anesthesiologist got like 500, including a block. Just one anecdote, but I'm not sure we are billing more than the surgeons.

Charges, costs, and reimbursements are three numbers that have little to nothing to do with one another.

 

[ASA6]

Charges, costs, and reimbursements are three numbers that have little to nothing to do with one another.

Um...okay. But these are what was reimbursed. The surgeon also got about $300 for the office visit pre-op. There was no charge for the post op but I saw his PA. Even with overhead the surgeon still come out ahead of the anesthesiologist. And also your point doesn't really address mine.

 

[GassYous]

A surgeon getting $600 for a gallbladder while anesthesia gets $1200 (commercial) for 45 min to one hour of billable units

Or a gi doc getting $300 for a scope and anesthesia gets $600. (Commercial) for a 15-20 min procedure

You really think that’s fair?

That’s the 800 pound gorilla in the room with anesthesia billing units.

And no. Smaller anesthesia private practice do not have a lot of overhead. I’ve been in a few. Office manager (we paid her 80k, of course she stole 300k before I caught it, but most of it was before I arrived and I audited the expenses from the previous year) , billing company (5-6%), that’s all you really need. Talking about a 10-12 million dollar anesthesia revenue collections anesthesia practice with 10 docs and 20 crnas. Very little overhead.

Except somehow I'm getting 500k and the gis/surgeons are pulling well over a mil

Most people getting surgery and procedures tend to be on Medicare/Medicaid

 

[aneftp]

Except somehow I'm getting 500k and the gis/surgeons are pulling well over a mil

Most people getting surgery and procedures tend to be on Medicare/Medicaid

Very few gen surgeons make over 1 million. Most make 400-550k range.

A few of my friends are general surgeons. They struggle with office overheads. And finally cave in and work for the hospital

Most of the profitable general surgeons do bariatric surgery.

 

[TexasMed22]

Very few gen surgeons make over 1 million. Most make 400-550k range.

A few of my friends are general surgeons. They struggle with office overheads. And finally cave in and work for the hospital

Most of the profitable general surgeons do bariatric surgery.

Most GI's aren't hitting a mil either. MGMA average is like 600k.

 

[ambiturner]

Very few gen surgeons make over 1 million. Most make 400-550k range.

A few of my friends are general surgeons. They struggle with office overheads. And finally cave in and work for the hospital

Most of the profitable general surgeons do bariatric surgery.

Yeah our general surgeons are well paid but are also are some of the heavily subsidized physicians in the entire hospital - far more than anesthesia! Trauma stipends, NICU stipends, ECMO stipends, offsite call stipends, they have to take call for all this stuff and are paid handsomely for their availability. But yes, they are employed.

 

[ASA6]

Most GI's aren't hitting a mil either. MGMA average is like 600k.

But I don't think this counts their distributions from being an owner in a surgery center. So sure they are at 600 but then get an extra 200k from their center.

 

[pgg]

But I don't think this counts their distributions from being an owner in a surgery center. So sure they are at 600 but then get an extra 200k from their center.

What percentage of GI docs actually have any ownership in a facility?

I'd guess it's a minority.

 

[AKMD_1984]

Yeah our general surgeons are well paid but are also are some of the heavily subsidized physicians in the entire hospital - far more than anesthesia! Trauma stipends, NICU stipends, ECMO stipends, offsite call stipends, they have to take call for all this stuff and are paid handsomely for their availability. But yes, they are employed.

yeah, hospital would gladly employ non-anesthesia specialists because they earn massive downstream revenue.
Downstream revenue is not earned by anesthesiology services. We were discussing this in the other thread re partnerships.
Of course we contribute to surgery revenue, but scheduling, ordering of diagnostic tests, consults, inpatient stay, and of course facility fee is all dependent on surgeon activity. This is significant ancillary income for the hospital. They would gladly employ the surgeon to obtain control of all this activity.
In fact, now that I look back, one of the first practices I worked at - it was owned by a radiologist that owned 2 MRIs and a CT scan.
On my interview, He asked me how many MRIs would I order per year? I couldn't answer him intelligently as I did not know myself. All he cared about was whether I would order at least 500 MRIs per year.
He could care less about my clinical activity or pain practice. He knew that majority of the revenue will come from diagnostic imaging and then he will pay me my salary from that...in his head, he was calculating my "worth" to him based on how many scans I would order. If it was up to him, he would do it - but he couldn't. He did not have the training to evaluate and diagnose pain patients and order imaging. He was essentially paying me for my license and signature.

Its all a numbers game.

 

[TexasMed22]

But I don't think this counts their distributions from being an owner in a surgery center. So sure they are at 600 but then get an extra 200k from their center.

This washington post article based on 900k physician 2017 tax returns (which would include surgery center income) has GI at 594k average.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/08/04/doctor-pay-shortage/

 

[AKMD_1984]

Not True.

If you have a busy ortho center and good payer mix in combination with 75 percentile or more payer rates, your going to kill it..

Most of the stipend necessity for larger groups like AMCs and hospitals is about compensation for times when case volumes are low (on call/overnight) and/or payer mix is poor.

100%.
Stipends are essentially for "being available on call" (when no units are produced) and matching market comp for anesthesiologists/CRNAs.
That's it. Its a double edged sword because the higher the stipend, the more vulnerable the PP group becomes. Its one way of hospital slowly getting leverage over anesthesiology groups.
This is why I was surprised when one of the partners from a local group told me, we are really re-evaluating the whole "exclusive contract" deal - because they just don't want that obligation for the money paid to them.