Another good SDG bites the dust

Started by ERMudPhud
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Emapp20177 said:
A lot of indentured servitude ($140-160/hr or 190 for nights?) before that all kicks in. Pure hourly so no incentive to do any work on shift for the untouchable old fogeys. Undoubtedly sign charts for your legions of PAs and residents opening yourself up to litigation (OP stated 1.5 pph charts from midlevels). So you're signing charts for nearly 3pph worth of litigation.

To make $240/hr. After a 500k buy in. Yep, the Partnership track is 3 years (5000 hours).

Shocking to see how people here think a job like this is acceptable. The listing is getting absolutely roasted on emdocs jobs. Top comments:

"Horrible rates. Who would even consider a partnership track for one and secondly for these rates!??"

"Absurdly low pay"

"Mid 100s on a multi year partnership track? Gross. New grads please stop falling for these scams"

"Low pay and Cerner! How do I sign up?"

"This made me want to cry."

"The partners must be getting rich off the new guys."

"What in the EM?
Midlevels make “mid-100s.”
Respect your BAFERD colleagues."

I repeat, EM is cooked.
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Its not cooked, you just need to find a good group.

3 year partner track at 150/hr just to make 500k afterwards is trash.

I made 400k on partner track.
 
Janders said:
I don’t think 400k with excellent benefits at 1400hr is typical for partner track in many parts of the country, but I wish it was. Maybe it is now? I haven’t gone looking in a while
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It's not. Just like anything in life, someone is always bigger, faster, stronger, better looking, more money, etc. You'll always have someone come in and say that their job is better or higher pay or whatever. While it may be true, it doesn't necessarily reflect true reality.
 
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Bittersteel said:
If you have a successful group it is
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The partnership track compensation has nothing to do with how successful the group is. It's a buy-in to the business that is determined by the owners just like any other industry. I guess you could have a group determine that their business is worth nothing and basically make all the new docs financially equal to partners on day 1. I suspect not many groups are doing that just like not many other businesses do that. I do think there's a balance between a buy-in and how long it takes to recoup that buy-in.
 
JacobMcCandles said:
It's not. Just like anything in life, someone is always bigger, faster, stronger, better looking, more money, etc. You'll always have someone come in and say that their job is better or higher pay or whatever. While it may be true, it doesn't necessarily reflect true reality.
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If this hospital is a dump and the true pph is way higher, like an earlier poster suggested, then this job isn’t good. If it’s really close to advertised then this is a solid job. Typical sdn “270 Step 1 or you won’t match” / “I see 4pph by myself at a level 1 trauma center” nonsense.

It’s funny how everyone on this forum talks about how terrible this field is, but then talks about a $450k/yr contract at 1.4pph like you’re a Walmart greeter. Pick a lane, guys.

FWIW I see about 1.7PPH and make about the same as this listing at a SDG. I leave on time most shifts with notes done and am not burnt out going to work most days. I feel like I have a good job and can keep doing this for a long time.
 
JacobMcCandles said:
The partnership track compensation has nothing to do with how successful the group is. It's a buy-in to the business that is determined by the owners just like any other industry. I guess you could have a group determine that their business is worth nothing and basically make all the new docs financially equal to partners on day 1. I suspect not many groups are doing that just like not many other businesses do that. I do think there's a balance between a buy-in and how long it takes to recoup that buy-in.
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Your statement rests on the incorrect assumption that our partners aren't making much, much more.
 
Bittersteel said:
Your statement rests on the incorrect assumption that our partners aren't making much, much more.
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My statement in no way rests on that. You tied partnership track compensation to how successful a group is and that’s an incorrect assumption.

The bottom line is that people poo-poo jobs all the time when it’s real tough to make an apples to apples comparison especially when we don’t know all the ins and outs. Some EDs can make 2.5 pph feel like a breeze and some can make 0.75 pph feel like the worst shifts of your life. Some SDGs do great and have high buy ins and some do great and have low buy ins. Alternatively, some do horrible with high buy ins and some do poorly with low buy ins.
 
JacobMcCandles said:
The partnership track compensation has nothing to do with how successful the group is. It's a buy-in to the business that is determined by the owners just like any other industry. I guess you could have a group determine that their business is worth nothing and basically make all the new docs financially equal to partners on day 1. I suspect not many groups are doing that just like not many other businesses do that. I do think there's a balance between a buy-in and how long it takes to recoup that buy-in.
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This is the vituity and USACS models.. i always questioned why someone would think it is a good deal.
 
EctopicFetus said:
This is the vituity and USACS models.. i always questioned why someone would think it is a good deal.
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Idk how it works with usacs but with Vituity at least the partner share goes up each year and is essentially negligible the first two years.
 
EctopicFetus said:
Seems like most vituity sites end up with bonuses around 300/hr.. maybe 325?
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Depends on the payor mix and base rates. In the area I'm at, $300/hour is mostly limited to the crappy sites no one wants to work at since the base is higher, and you hit $300 with end of year profit sharing as full partner. Some sites pay quarterly surpluses, and some don't. The quarterly surpluses are what really push the pay up to $300/hour. Some sites have higher night differentials which will do it. There are really only like 2 decent sites around here that hit $300/hour consistently but they're almost never hiring and are like an hour from me. The main issue I have with vituity are the inconsistent quarterly surpluses. It's hard to financially plan around those. It's also annoying how they don't really talk about how financially different their sites are, so you have to really research the sites in your area, but things can change and then you have to jump ship to another site.
 
EMdoc235 said:
Depends on the payor mix and base rates. In the area I'm at, $300/hour is mostly limited to the crappy sites no one wants to work at since the base is higher, and you hit $300 with end of year profit sharing as full partner. Some sites pay quarterly surpluses, and some don't. The quarterly surpluses are what really push the pay up to $300/hour. Some sites have higher night differentials which will do it. There are really only like 2 decent sites around here that hit $300/hour consistently but they're almost never hiring and are like an hour from me. The main issue I have with vituity are the inconsistent quarterly surpluses. It's hard to financially plan around those. It's also annoying how they don't really talk about how financially different their sites are, so you have to really research the sites in your area, but things can change and then you have to jump ship to another site.
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Truly.. i dont know where you are but it seems like most decent jobs all around the US now are at 300/hr.
 
EctopicFetus said:
Truly.. i dont know where you are but it seems like most decent jobs all around the US now are at 300/hr.
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This is highly regional. And define “decent”. There are plenty of $300/hr jobs around me. They all suck and I wouldn’t do them for $400/hr. The good jobs near me pay less.
 
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skougess said:
This is highly regional. And define “decent”. There are plenty of $300/hr jobs around me. They all suck and I wouldn’t do them for $400/hr. The good jobs near me pay less.
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Under 2pph. One I can think of is about 1.5pph per attending and another 0.5pph seen by mlps.
 
Yeah 300/hr rates for low volume shifts is absolutely not happening in many regions.

Its still about 200/hr rates for most desirable cities in mid atlantic and northeastern states.
 
alpinism said:
Yeah 300/hr rates for low volume shifts is absolutely not happening in many regions.

Its still about 200/hr rates for most desirable cities in mid atlantic and northeastern states.
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Can confirm NY/NJ market is still significantly under 250/hr (non-nights) for the most part
 
Emapp20177 said:
THIS is the contract that got EM all up in arms over?!

EM is so ****ing cooked. This contract is garbage for a new hire. Piss poor pay, especially in Oregon with their income tax. Paying new grad BE docs less than BCEM AND no benefits? F off with that noise. I'm sure the partners make a lot of profit off of their new hires but this is so gross. Glad to work for a shop that gives equal pay for your work from day 1. This **** makes my blood boil.
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EEP updated their EM Docs Jobs post and has recently had to advertise for PRN / 1099s offering >300/hr. Seems like they didn't get much interest. Wonder why.

Updated job listing attached. Notice the removed garbage pay rates and added retirement from day one instead of 2nd year. I guess trying to exploit new hires doesn't garner much interest.
 

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Emapp20177 said:
What?

False. The updated post is for all their sites. See attached.

And no. I don't even practice in that region. I just call it how I see it.
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I haven’t gone back and looked at the previous posting but wasn’t that for a partnership track position? You said these are 1099/W2 positions. Apples and oranges.
 
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JacobMcCandles said:
I haven’t gone back and looked at the previous posting but wasn’t that for a partnership track position? You said these are 1099/W2 positions. Apples and oranges.
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The original job listing started at $200/hr.

Shortly after, they posted asking for contractors to pick up shifts for >300/hr.

And most recently they removed the garbage ($200) rates from their job listing and now added retirement benefit for the first year of partnership track.

Clearly no one wanted to work for them for the original job offer, why else would they edit the post and increase compensation?
 
Emapp20177 said:
The original job listing started at $200/hr.

Shortly after, they posted asking for contractors to pick up shifts for >300/hr.

And most recently they removed the garbage ($200) rates from their job listing and now added retirement benefit for the first year of partnership track.

Clearly no one wanted to work for them for the original job offer, why else would they edit the post and increase compensation?
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True. Eugene is not exactly a hotbed for people to live.
 
Emapp20177 said:
The original job listing started at $200/hr.

Shortly after, they posted asking for contractors to pick up shifts for >300/hr.

And most recently they removed the garbage ($200) rates from their job listing and now added retirement benefit for the first year of partnership track.

Clearly no one wanted to work for them for the original job offer, why else would they edit the post and increase compensation?
Click to expand...

Show us on the doll where the democratic group touched you.
 
Emapp20177 said:
The original job listing started at $200/hr.

Shortly after, they posted asking for contractors to pick up shifts for >300/hr.

And most recently they removed the garbage ($200) rates from their job listing and now added retirement benefit for the first year of partnership track.

Clearly no one wanted to work for them for the original job offer, why else would they edit the post and increase compensation?
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For any new grads ,this ^^^ is not a great post.

My W2 rate was (and is) a smidge <$200/hr. Plus benefits/401k/hsa/etc. Clearly still not a super high salary. But as a partner I add about $300K on top of that. I *definitely* make more than a $300/hr IC - by a long shot.

The original group, EEG, is a fairly well respected group, and I’d bet dollars to doughnuts their ppl were well taken care of.

Not all partner-track sdgs are great, but if you find a good one, then your career is wayyyyyy better some independent contractor gig.
 
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