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Sure, but $200/hr with no benefits in 2026 is objectively horrible. I'm not aware of any buy-in that bad for a mid tier (at best) city.
Another good SDG bites the dust
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Sure, but $200/hr with no benefits in 2026 is objectively horrible. I'm not aware of any buy-in that bad for a mid tier (at best) city.
D
deleted1223140
The board certified position is pretty good. Even pre-partner it’s competitive.
I don’t think new grads should be paid as well as BC. They’re slower and often require monitoring for several months.
Says "full benefit program" in there. I'm willing to bet some limited benefit program is in there for their first year.
Nonetheless, I couldn't possibly move to Oregon. We went on vacay to the coast last summer and I wanted to order CT brain on everyone that I met there.
Did I post about that? Maybe I did. That time when the commiehipsters asked me what the flag (Florida state flag) was on my hat because they assumed it was a fascism thing?
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I'm not sure I could pick the Florida state flag out of a lineup. I'm assuming there's an alligator on it somewhere, probably being run over by an old person in a huge SUV.
BCEM should get no less than $300/hr particularly location like Eugene Oregon. Come on now.
I graduated in 2020. $200/hr today equates to $154/hr in 2020. Just absolutely horrendous. I would've never taken that job.
Again, EM is cooked.
You're SC, so I can't blame you for not recognizing the Cross of Burgundy common to most flags in the SE.
You guys have that palm tree and crescent moon, which is honestly pretty cool of a design.
Now for the gags: Alligator works, but really if you just had a boomer with that blank gap-mouthed stare on the flag, it would work.
I can't take it here anymore.
Yeah, I frequently catch myself comparing 2015 dollars to 2025(6) dollars.
You're not wrong, bro.
As resident historian and former Floridian, I have to mention the FL state flag is interesting…
For years it was just a white flag with the old state seal in the middle. A state seal with a plains Indian, a mountain, and an inaccurate palm.
Then around the lost cause era, they added the diagonal crossed bars. Just a couple years after Alabama did. Some think it’s a nod to cross of burgundy, some think it’s a nod to the confederacy, some thing it was a practical way to make it less like a flag of surrender when limp (also a problem for the confederate “stainless banner”). Florida being Florida didn’t keep any records or correspondence from the time, so we can’t know. They did update the state seal in the 80s to fix the Native American and the palm and the mountain and to make sure I GOD WE TRUST was visible.
Alabamas flag, which was adopted nearly the same year, has a similar muddled past. The st Andrews cross was/is felt by many to evoke confederate heritage, and it was adopted around the same time the were making holidays for Lee and company. But it’s not explicit and no smoking gun has been found showing that was the true inspiration
Regardless they are weak state flags. Colorado? Texas? Maryland? Arizona? New Mexico? SC? Include Puerto Rico! Those are S-tier flags.
If your flag has a state seal on it… de facto bottom half the rankings
No disagreement about EM being a dead-end joke of field at this point. But criticizing this offer is pretty ludicrous. I mean, wasn't someone in the other thread saying the going rate in Chattanooga was 220/hr? And that's for a sweatshop cmg gig. I wonder what Apollo's target rate for this site was, guessing somewhere around 190...obviously with their famously gracious bennie package. Plus, it's only 1-2 years.
Ill say i dont think this is true and frankly very individual dependent. It might be true for 1-2 months max. That being said they are seeing about 80k visits a year. which is 220/day. They have 96 hours of coverage and 3 PA shifts a day. So it is pretty obvious the docs are seeing under 2pph. Given that a semi decent EM doc can see 1.5-1.7 pph day 1 from a non HCA residency.
Ill be honest the pay is trash, it may be that the group partners are making a ton of money. I have no idea. Other jobs in oregon were typically in the 300/hr range.
If you extrapolate the real numbers here they still suck but arent as bad as it appears. Year 1 you get a 15k sign on bonus. thats worth roughly $10/hr. So 210/hr.
year 2 is 225/hr plus 20% in retirement. so closer to 270/hr which is not amazing by any stretch but this job seems very simple.
Ill say.. not all SDGs are great. Most EM groups the partners do well. The question is whats that path and if you can find out.. whats the pay. I have seen the inside baseball of a bunch of SDGs and some the partners really do not do very well. typically poorly run businesses.
That being said, while some SDGs are not crushing it (EEP may be crushing it, I dont know), all CMGs are bad.. its in the business model.
My first job out of residency in year 1 I literally made ~25-30% of what the partners made. Objectively it sucked, It was about 2/3 of what a normal EM doc was getting paid in the area. I moonlit (strongly discouraged) at a site when they needed people for much better money. Things were hard. The worry i would have with joining EEP is while i personally think they are fine it would be very stupid not to consider the chance they lose the contract in the next 5 years. Again, i dont think it will happen but while many SDGs can say they have a great relationship with the C suite and feel like they are stable these guys cant say that. We see just recently EEP and the group in VA lost their contract. You have to sort out if the risk is worth the reward. I am guessing if someone wanted to go there the ballpakr partner comp would be shared during the interview process.
Thats how my group does it. We publish our rates for our pre partners but during the actual interview we are much more open about partner comp. Signing for 210-275/hr is reasonable. There is likely some financial risk that needs to be weighed. I do agree that the CMGs screw people with big sign on bonuses. Its frankly comical. New grads are simps and are mesmerized by the shiny object. Sign on bonus of 45k, substandard market pay.. they dont get that this is just $30/hr. My group hired a dude who did this with a CMG, he didnt want to leave because he would have to pay back the bonus. This move cost him about 60k in year 1 income. Again.. simp.. with no guidance from his equally stupid academic powerhouse attendings who cant do simple math.
I agree with this. it will fade. Whether apollo could back out or not you and i know depends on the details of the agreement. Clearly looks like Apollo and/or PeaceHealth backed out here to go back to EEP. Who knows the details? I dont.
I will say I know more than a few ApolloMD people. One of my closest EM friends has known Yogin for 20+ years well before he took over. They did stuff together when they were both residents. I can tell you the structure of apollo and the relationship with ValorBridge is either so convoluted or the people i know (more than a few) are completely stupid because none of them seem to understand the prior relationship.
Given my opinion of these people (some of them) i think the relationship was purposely opaque.
Either way.. it is what it is. I dont begrudge Apollo, you guys do you. its not for me, locally i dont like how they run their contracts and have had discussion with the local leader James Capes about their contract. Like most CMGs some sites are great (i am sure) and some are not.
Not familiar with pre-partner pay schedules?
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Is there an industry where it’s common to become an owner of a business without paying anything, whether that’s a buy-in or sweat equity? I’m not familiar with any off the top of my head. Turns out nobody really hands you things for free. With that said, there are definitely fair ways to go about it.
CO, NM, AZ really are S-tier flags.
PA, SC, WA are mid.
OH can Eff right off with their straight up mentally disabled flag.
I mean its 225/hr for their one year partnership track which is not a great salary but its also not a garbage salary.
The partners are likely around 325/hr with benefits and retirement which is far more than most emergency physicians.
I do like SC myself.
PA and WA suck. OH is terrible.
GA and NC are both weak/lame repurposed confederate flags (in GA’s case, to replace a different repurposed confederate flag). I find these terrible. Delaware may be worse aesthetically.
Mississippi shows how you can make a new southern flag that isn’t confederate inspired that looks vibrant and interesting. Not S-tier but solid.
Wyoming has S-tier potential if they’d remove the stupid seal.
I like CO flag myself. Even wear a trucker style baseball cap with the CO flag on it, that says Breckenridge on the back. What amazes me is how many people see that and think it's a Cuba flag! Idiots.
I did the math before I took my job. Roughly 5 years to pull ahead of the 2nd choice job, I can't remember third choice but it was also a few years.
I dunno…
When I joined my group I think the pre-partner rate was ~$185 ($195?)/hr + benefits/401K/etc + minor RVU stuff (maybe $1-2K/month RVU
That was my rate for two yrs.
As a partner, my rate is basically the same, but with >$300K in profit sharing every year.
I don’t feel exploited - I put in my time, and loyalty was built in both directions, I’ve more than made up for any lost wages. I’m definitely on the tip of bell curve for EM salary.
The pre-partner time is inportant because the partnership can be a career-long professional relationship. It gives us time to make sure somebody isn’t a terrible fit. Note: I am NOT talking about a predatory group that grinds though ppl and doesn’t partner them. That is not us. But our partners almost never ever leave the group to go elsewhere, so we really want to make sure our future partners are team players, in the truest sense of the term.
Just another perspective. Not all private groups are benign, but not all are malignant either.
<shrug>
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Isn't the OH flag double sided?
It’s an odd swallow tail shape instead of rectangular like the rest of them. It’s also “just” red white and blue USA derivative. Meh.
Maybe it's OR, then? Yes, Oregon has the two sided flag.
Sounds way better than what EEP is offering. And the $185 was in what year? Benefit prices have gone up like crazy so not included that for a new grad is rough af. Inclusion of some RVU incentive is a decent add as well.
I think it’s far more likely that you’re misinterpreting the posting. They might not give a retirement contribution the fairest year, but highly unlikely (and illegal) to not offer standard benefits to first year associates
Non partners and those on partnership tracks should not make what partners make. EM is one field where you can find tracks to partnership. Many specialties and other non medical careers have no option for partnership.
Do you think someone being hired as a plumber will ever have a chance to be an owner of the plumbing company without some amazingly high hurdles and luck?
Do you think someone being hired as a plumber will ever have a chance to be an owner of the plumbing company without some amazingly high hurdles and luck?
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This isn’t directed at you but mostly for the residents and younger attendings who think ownership is owed to them. In the plumbing example, there’s two ways for the plumber to own the business. First, negotiate a buy-in. Two, start their own business. I guess technically the third is nepotism but that’s going to be incredibly tough in the EM world. Nobody is giving you ownership in a business just because you have a certain degree or certification.
The job listing specifies only BCEM gets benefits and RVU comp adjustment. BE only gets retirement for 2nd year of 2 year track. Did you not read it?
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It’s common for retirement plans to have a period of a certain number of hours or one year of employment before you’re eligible anyway so that point could certainly be irrelevant.
Jim McGovern, the chief hospital executive who started this whole process of trying to kick out EEP has been officially kicked to the curb.
Contrary to what the corporate docs may write here, I suspect that more of the C suite suits who started this issue will be gone before long and EEP will be here for many years to come.
Contrary to what the corporate docs may write here, I suspect that more of the C suite suits who started this issue will be gone before long and EEP will be here for many years to come.
This is exactly what I have been saying. The docs in a good SDG will be around far longer than C suite leadership. The idea that the feelings of the current C suite matter is greatly overexaggerated since most will be gone before they will consider kicking EEP out again.
I have been through a ton of C suite leadership during my 10+ years at my current job. The key is to make sure the lower level C suite also like you so when they take over you have a relationship in hand already. My strategy is to be on good terms broadly and deeply. I have no concerns about our contract for many reasons which i wont put on here.
Dr. Kim Ruscher appears to have been forced out of leadership in the continuing purge of local executives who spearheaded this attempt to oust EEP. Kim was appointed to her position by Jim McGovern, who was also forced out following this attempted ousting of EEP.
Again, to all those out there who may be in an SDG facing a similar proposal, don't listen to the corporate docs who rolled over and say it's not worth fighting and that the execs will always get their way. It's worth fighting for more physician control over medicine, and this fight in Eugene was one small victory for physicians.
Again, to all those out there who may be in an SDG facing a similar proposal, don't listen to the corporate docs who rolled over and say it's not worth fighting and that the execs will always get their way. It's worth fighting for more physician control over medicine, and this fight in Eugene was one small victory for physicians.
They signed a 3 year deal. Even if in 3 years they get the boot (looks less likely with all these PeaceHealth people leaving) they still had 3 more years of not being a CMG chump.
D
deleted1223140
$240/hour for partners is awful. That's a base rate in even bad markets these days.
Awful.
I get 255 to sleep at an HCA FSED with zero traffic after 11pm.
Looking at that job again: Pasco county?! Guaranteed it's drugs and nonsense all shift.
Maan.
I acknowledge I'm pretty out of the loop (in Academics, although did work community for a few years), but I try to track this stuff closely and educate myself so I can give our residents as good advice as I can.
This job also has full W-2 benefits, which most people (including WCI) would say (very roughly) adds $20-40 to the hourly rate. So now we are talking about a job that pays $260-300 per hour, with benefits, including 401K match and quarterly bonus, and only sees 1.4 pph. That doesn't sound THAT egregious to me?
Again - I defer to those with more community experience
This job also has full W-2 benefits, which most people (including WCI) would say (very roughly) adds $20-40 to the hourly rate. So now we are talking about a job that pays $260-300 per hour, with benefits, including 401K match and quarterly bonus, and only sees 1.4 pph. That doesn't sound THAT egregious to me?
Again - I defer to those with more community experience
Its just hard to say without the entire compensation package.
$275/hr, plus good benefits, plus 401k match (how much? 12%?), plus quarterly bonus (how much? 25k?) at only 1.4pph is nice IMO.
$260/hr, plus poor benefits, plus a 1% 401k match, plus a quarterly bonus that is only $2k isn't all that lovely, though seeing 1.4pph is pretty relaxing...
Is that 1.4pph by yourself, and having 3-4 PA presentations each hour as well?
You just gotta see ALL the numbers to say much...
$275/hr, plus good benefits, plus 401k match (how much? 12%?), plus quarterly bonus (how much? 25k?) at only 1.4pph is nice IMO.
$260/hr, plus poor benefits, plus a 1% 401k match, plus a quarterly bonus that is only $2k isn't all that lovely, though seeing 1.4pph is pretty relaxing...
Is that 1.4pph by yourself, and having 3-4 PA presentations each hour as well?
You just gotta see ALL the numbers to say much...
Bittersteel
Full Member
Not sure why anyone is defending this.
I made more than this before I was even a partner...
Pasco county = drugged up and 3.0 patients per hour.
I really hate what our country has become.
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Well that’s awful then. I retract my statement. I make that rate seeing a true 1.7 pph in a well functioning system.
Southeast and Texas in general pay pretty well.
Because $275hr x 1400hr = 385k.
If you get that and 100k of bonuses and 40k of retirement match, at 1.4pph… you’re in the 500k range at 1.4pph
I still think it sounds fine?
Again you need to see the real entire compensation and work to make anything…
A lot of indentured servitude ($140-160/hr or 190 for nights?) before that all kicks in. Pure hourly so no incentive to do any work on shift for the untouchable old fogeys. Undoubtedly sign charts for your legions of PAs and residents opening yourself up to litigation (OP stated 1.5 pph charts from midlevels). So you're signing charts for nearly 3pph worth of litigation.
To make $240/hr. After a 500k buy in. Yep, the Partnership track is 3 years (5000 hours).
Shocking to see how people here think a job like this is acceptable. The listing is getting absolutely roasted on emdocs jobs. Top comments:
"Horrible rates. Who would even consider a partnership track for one and secondly for these rates!??"
"Absurdly low pay"
"Mid 100s on a multi year partnership track? Gross. New grads please stop falling for these scams"
"Low pay and Cerner! How do I sign up?"
"This made me want to cry."
"The partners must be getting rich off the new guys."
"What in the EM?
Midlevels make “mid-100s.”
Respect your BAFERD colleagues."
I repeat, EM is cooked.
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Bittersteel
Full Member
I mean if you're happy making as a partner what you can make as a cog other places...sure.
