any ideas

[DR PR33]

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i recently finished med school abroad, im interested in ophthalmology program in the near future, at the moment i am getting ready for the boards, someone told me that is very hard for a FMG to go for ophthalmology program or residency how true is this ???? i felted so frustrated that i am even thinking to go back to school here in the states for a O.D. program. i would still taking my steps but it would help me for a residency in ophthalmo in the future ??? or is a waste of time ??? i am VERY confused could anyone please help me to decide.

thanks

ophthalmology is the only thing i want to do

 

[RussianJoo]

it's very very hard for a US grad to match into an opthomology residency and i would say almost impossible to do that as an FMG. you would need to have had close to a 4.0 GPA and at least 250 on USMLE step1 and 2 which is extremely hard to do by itself. and even if you have all that your chance of matching is still less than 1%, I am assuming you'll need the residency to sponser you a visa as well? that will drop your chance to 0.05% if you need a visa.

what does getting an optometry certificate have to do with ophthomology? You realize that Optomotrists aren't real doctors right? OD won't help you at all they're two completely different degrees and it's very easy to become an optometrist.

What will help you is if you do research in opthomology and get published. and get published in a US medical journal not some foreign journal. but even still it will be extemely hard.

I think you should pick another field. maybe IM or FM?

 

[dragonfly99]

Russianjoo is mostly right. Even for US students, ophthalmology is really competitive. If you do great on the USMLE's, you could apply, but assume your chance of getting in is very low. You would need to apply to a 2nd specialty as a backup. You could try for internal med, fp, or maybe neurology. Neuro is the closes thing I can think of to neurology that is reasonable for a FMG to get into. I know it sucks but reality is reality...a ton of US students who want ophthalmology don't even get it, so the the programs don't really have a reason to bring in trainees from abroad to fill their spots. They have more qualified US students applying than they could ever take, so why deal with a foreign student who they have to get a visa for, etc.?

OD (doctor of optometry) IS a doctor though, just not a physician. They do not do eye surgeries, etc. But if you just want a career examining people for eye pathology, fitting them for glasses, etc. then I think OD would be a reasonable choice. They don't do a residency and they don't do surgery, but there are a lot of things they can do. You could get your own office, examine patients, etc. You would need to go to optometry school in the US, though, which I believe is 4 years. I don't know how hard it is for foreign students to get in, and it would be rather expensive b/c you'd have to pay for tuition for 4 years.

You could try doing eye-related research for a couple of years to see if that would help you get ophtho residency, but don't assume you'll get in. Are you willing to do 2 years of research even if it means you still might likely not get the residency you want? If you really love the eyes, you might not mind. If you just want a residency, then try a different one.

 

[DR PR33]

do not need visa im a us citizen already with a medical degree preparing for the boards

 

[RussianJoo]

well that makes it a tiny bit easier but still almost impossible.. How many alumni from your school matching into Ophthomology in the US in the history of your school? that should put things into prospective for you. I am sure you're not the only one from your school who wanted to be an ophthomologist.

this thread has some great info.. just remember the number quoted are for US grads and you'll need to do considerably better on the Steps and GPA wise to be considered.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=66427

 

[ChairmanMao]

i recently finished med school abroad, im interested in ophthalmology program in the near future, at the moment i am getting ready for the boards, someone told me that is very hard for a FMG to go for ophthalmology program or residency how true is this ???? i felted so frustrated that i am even thinking to go back to school here in the states for a O.D. program. i would still taking my steps but it would help me for a residency in ophthalmo in the future ??? or is a waste of time ??? i am VERY confused could anyone please help me to decide.

thanks

ophthalmology is the only thing i want to do

Out of curiosity, what foreign medical school did you go to? If it's a well-regarded medical school in Canada, the UK, Switzerland, or Germany, you may have a chance assuming that you do well on the boards and have several years of research experience (and know a couple of people who can make calls or write letters on your behalf). Otherwise, to echo the sentiments everyone else said, your chances are not so good.

Ophthalmology is a very competitive field and very few Foreign medical school graduates are accepted each year. Even for US medical school graduates, it's very difficult to match into the program. I remember something like only a few dozen foreign medical school graduates are accepted into the program every year. Most of those graduated from highly regarded medical schools in Canada and Western Europe and either have extensive research background (authored several book chapters on ophthalmology or made a ground breaking discovery in their field) or have been practicing in their native country for years and years.

I'm curious as to why you are so interested in ophthalmology though... There are many other specialties that are equally rewarding and are less competitive to get into. As everyone else said, an OD will not help your application much though you can choose to go that as option if you do not want to want to waste time doing years and years of research and go trhrough residency. I also think you need to spend time reading through the board and finding out more information about each specialty and how competitive they are before deciding on one. In the end, don't limit yourself to just one specialty, you'll set yourself up for disappointment if you don't match. Why don't you look into Internal Medicine as an option. It's a lot more friendly towards foreign medical school graduates and you'll earn the same in some sub-specialties.

 

[relaxedMD]

To the OP:
Why havent you been clear about which school you have graduated from?
Name the school which allows you to wait until you graduate before you sit for the "boards" USLME 1, 2CK, 2CS, 3???
I am pretty sure I havent heard of any such luck at the Big 4 schools.

About your query.
If all else were equal, you would have very little chance of Matching if your Step 1 was not 250+++. I am pretty sure that PDs will discard applications from IMGs and FMGs with any thing less than stellar numbers. Your chances improve ever so slightly if you have done research at that institution. While you are studying for the Steps, latch on to a research project in Ophthalmology. Dont waste any time.

Its cool to want something this BADLY! Here is an example. This is a story I heard. In 2003 or so an SGU grad wanted integrated PLASTICS really badly, I believe after two to three years of Research and several publications from a top research university, he/she finally matched into Plastic surgery. What were the chances of that person matching??? Probably close to 0.01%. But it has happend.

Good luck to you. If it doesnt work out, atleast you will have the satisfaction that you tried your absolute best. Best wishes.

rlxdmd

 

[DR PR33]

i when to med school in the Caribbean
why do i want it so bad ???? i use to be an ophthalmic tech. while in med school i really liked surgery and orthopedic
but ophthalmology is what i really love and passion me.

 

[JonathanMD]

To the OP:
Why havent you been clear about which school you have graduated from?

I'm going to reiterate what relaxedMD said.

They know a lot more than me on this subject, but they can't help you any further without know which school you went to. You want specific answers, but realistic chances to accomplish what you want differs widely from school to school when it comes to FMG, IMG, and off-shore schools.

You have to name the school or you're just going to get general answers while fishing for specific ones.

 

[RussianJoo]

i when to med school in the Caribbean
why do i want it so bad ???? i use to be an ophthalmic tech. while in med school i really liked surgery and orthopedic
but ophthalmology is what i really love and passion me.

hmm carib school with an MD/PhD program? never heard of one....

yeah man your carib school doesn't sound like one of the reputable schools because all those schools make their students take step1 before starting 3rd year and step2 before graduating. Since you've already graduated and haven't take the steps where did you do your clinical rotations? in the caribbean? in Europe? you couldn't have done them in the US without a passing step1 score. By not doing clinical rotations in the US is another major strike against you. if you did them in the US you could have made connections with program directors and at least gotten some US letters of Rec.

What was your basic science GPA? was it at least over a 3.5? You need a solid foundation to do well on the steps..

Basically your step scores will determine what residency you do. if you kick butt and get over 250 on both step1 and 2 on the first try I say you can give it a try, but also apply to safety specialties like IM. I wouldn't call Surgery a safety cause it's pretty hard to get into surgery too, all though not as hard as Ophtholamo or Orthopedics.

And don't forget to use all your previous connections. call the MD's you worked with as a tech and ask them if they're friends with any program directors and if they can put in a good word for you. heck one of them might be a program director and might give you a residency spot.

But you really have to see what your steps are, if your basic science gpa wasn't above 3.5 it will be very hard to score above 240 on the steps, it's just what the statistics show.

once you have your steps scores we can assist you much better. just know that you'll need very very strong scores.

 

[ChairmanMao]

hmm carib school with an MD/PhD program? never heard of one....

yeah man your carib school doesn't sound like one of the reputable schools because all those schools make their students take step1 before starting 3rd year and step2 before graduating. Since you've already graduated and haven't take the steps where did you do your clinical rotations? in the caribbean? in Europe? you couldn't have done them in the US without a passing step1 score. By not doing clinical rotations in the US is another major strike against you. if you did them in the US you could have made connections with program directors and at least gotten some US letters of Rec.

What was your basic science GPA? was it at least over a 3.5? You need a solid foundation to do well on the steps..

Basically your step scores will determine what residency you do. if you kick butt and get over 250 on both step1 and 2 on the first try I say you can give it a try, but also apply to safety specialties like IM. I wouldn't call Surgery a safety cause it's pretty hard to get into surgery too, all though not as hard as Ophtholamo or Orthopedics.

And don't forget to use all your previous connections. call the MD's you worked with as a tech and ask them if they're friends with any program directors and if they can put in a good word for you. heck one of them might be a program director and might give you a residency spot.

But you really have to see what your steps are, if your basic science gpa wasn't above 3.5 it will be very hard to score above 240 on the steps, it's just what the statistics show.

once you have your steps scores we can assist you much better. just know that you'll need very very strong scores.

I'm not sure what kind of Carribbean medical school the OP went to, but based on the information that he provided us, it doesn't sound very reputable. For one, he hasn't taken the boards yet or passed it, even though he already graduated from medical school. Second, he doesn't seem to have received any form of advising from his medical school, because if he did, he would know how competitive ophthalmology is and how notoriously difficult it is for foreign medical school graduates to match into the program. Apart from that, what kind of medical school would graduate someone who hasn't done any kind of rotations (or let him work as an ophthalmology tech while attending school)? This all sounds very questionable.

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but unless the OP graduated from one of the Big four Carribbean medical school (SGU, Ross, AUC, and SABA) that's accredited in all US states, it doesn't sound very possible that he'll be able to match into a program. Part of that has to do with competitiveness (there are already a lot of competitive US medical school applicants who are applying to the program). Another is the fact that these programs are not FMG friendly. But for the OP, I think the biggest problem is the fact that he graduated from a Carrribbean medical school that might not be accredited. I certainly hope that's not the case, but until the OP tells us which school he graduated from, I would say that ophthalmology is probably not the field that he should be aiming for at this point.

 

[RussianJoo]

I'm not sure what kind of Carribbean medical school the OP went to, but based on the information that he provided us, it doesn't sound very reputable. For one, he hasn't taken the boards yet or passed it, even though he already graduated from medical school. Second, he doesn't seem to have received any form of advising from his medical school, because if he did, he would know how competitive ophthalmology is and how notoriously difficult it is for foreign medical school graduates to match into the program. Apart from that, what kind of medical school would graduate someone who hasn't done any kind of rotations (or let him work as an ophthalmology tech while attending school)? This all sounds very questionable.

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but unless the OP graduated from one of the Big four Carribbean medical school (SGU, Ross, AUC, and SABA) that's accredited in all US states, it doesn't sound very possible that he'll be able to match into a program. Part of that has to do with competitiveness (there are already a lot of competitive US medical school applicants who are applying to the program). Another is the fact that these programs are not FMG friendly. But for the OP, I think the biggest problem is the fact that he graduated from a Carrribbean medical school that might not be accredited. I certainly hope that's not the case, but until the OP tells us which school he graduated from, I would say that ophthalmology is probably not the field that he should be aiming for at this point.

no no he worked as an ophthalmology tech before med school. then in med school he liked surgery and ortho but still loves ophtho more.. and you can't graduate from med school without doing clinical rotations. he just probably did them in another country not the US.

Which school he graduated from will only matter because most carib schools are not approved by cali and by those 12 or whatever states that fallow the cali list, so his application is already limited because it's a waste of time and money applying to those states they'll simply reject his application based on technicalities. but other than that, i think many PDs clump all carib schools together and as long as he doesn't have any red flags like dropping classes or failures, and kicks butt on the steps >250 then i think he has the same chance as anyone, although since he didn't do his clinicals in the US because he didn't take the USMLE's yet that will hurt his chances considerably because he won't be able to get letters of rec from US attending physicians and US program directors.

So like I said above there really is no point in talking about this now because unless you destroy the USMLEs you shouldn't even bother applying, unless you have extra money to waste.

 

[dragonfly99]

Agree he needs to take at least USMLE Step 1 and Step 2, to see if he has a chance in heck at getting any optho residency in the U.S.
Also I think even with super high board scores, it would be hard for him to land an ophthalmology residency without at least one (preferably more) LOR's from US faculty, at least one of whom is an academic ophthalmologist. I also think it would help a lot of if he had some research (ideally opthalmology, but in any related area might help). I don't know, I just don't see this happening. l agree it sounds like his school didn't do much advising, or he didn't listen to it if he got any. Also, the fact that he apparently went to some school that is in the Caribbean but doesn't offer rotations in the US is a bad thing...I mean, part of the point of going to a Caribbean school vs. some other school abroad (like European schools) is that the better Caribbean schools let you rotate in US hospitals.

OP, maybe you should go to optometry school (in the US I mean). It seems that you have a lot of passion for treating the eye. Optometrists do a lot of things similar to ophthalmologists...except no surgery. It sounds like maybe you would prefer that to doing a specialty of medicine other than optho. At least you might want to explore this option as a backup plan.

 

[relaxedMD]

To all who have replied to this thread:

We are very nice to offer our advice and to some extent our expertise on the matter. But in this particular instance I feel as if we have been duped. I am skeptical of this person's actual position as a medical graduate. I am skeptical of this person's ability to communicate with us his specific circumstances. I would urge you to no longer enter your opinions and ideas unti he has produced a bit more substance to his story. IMO your time will be better spent servicing those who are serious about their training prospects and in actual need of our assistance.

Kindly,

rlxdmd

 

[RussianJoo]

yeah I agree with you on this. it all sounds pretty fishy. but i think the guy isn't replying cause he's disappointed. he posted the same on other forums and an FMG that match said he had a 255 on step1, and a 273 on step2. had an away rotation at UCLA, had 1 publication in a well Known medical journal, and an LOR from a semi Big Wig in the field. and he matched at program in Oklahoma, which probably no US student wanted to go to cause it's Oklahoma. Others told him to do a few years of research and then apply.

273 is the highest step score i have heard of thus far... and that's what probably got him the interviews. i am sure there are less than a 50 people that have gotten anything above a 270 in the history of the USMLE..

 

[ChairmanMao]

To all who have replied to this thread:

We are very nice to offer our advice and to some extent our expertise on the matter. But in this particular instance I feel as if we have been duped. I am skeptical of this person's actual position as a medical graduate. I am skeptical of this person's ability to communicate with us his specific circumstances. I would urge you to no longer enter your opinions and ideas unti he has produced a bit more substance to his story. IMO your time will be better spent servicing those who are serious about their training prospects and in actual need of our assistance.

Kindly,

rlxdmd

I think this person is for real. I think he really did graduate from a medical school in the Carribbean and maybe earned his Ph.D. there or abroad at another institution. The only problem is that it seems as though he graduated from an unaccredited institution and didn't do any rotations in the US. This is going to be a big problem no matter what his USMLE scores are.

I'm not even sure how well his school covered the materials for the USMLE. At this point, he should focus on passing the boards and then, maybe trying to match into a primary or family medicine residency. As Dragonfly said, if that doesn't work out and the OP's still interested in working on eyecare, he can go optometry school in the US - even though that means he probably wasted four years of his life and tens of thousands of dollars obtaining his degree. An ophthamology residency (or any other competitive residencies) is probably untenable at this point.

 

[relaxedMD]

::thinking out loud::

When he/she left for the carib school which remains NAMELESS, why didnt he find out what his chances were of matching into Ophtho, then? If that is his only passion, he would have never LEFT the US to seek an MD elsewhere.

Its gotta be a farce!

rlxdmd

 

[NAVYLABTECH08]

If you know you want a something like that, I suggest the military match. The military match is much different from the regular match. in the militay, derm, rad, etc may be easier to match than peds. I would go that route first. If you choose the regular match, it is going to be very expensive. You are going to have to aply very broadly, assuming you have >3.5 and >230 match scores. You will have to find that special program that believes in you, regardless, of where you graduated and you better sell the hell out of yourself on that interview. Not impossible. I thing someone got neurosurgery out of Ross a few years ago. Neurosurgery is more competiive than opthal so if is possible. Also, you may have to take a prelim spot. I doubt a cat spot in that field will be given to a fmg unless you go military. If you got the grades, try. the worst thing that could happen is you don't match it. just make sure you have a fallback plan in place to avoid the scramble. However, I agree with everyone that if you haven't taken at least step 1, you are not close to mathing anything. At best you are a MS1 or 2, but even ms 1 and 2 know you can't proceed to ms 3 with at least step 1. You you want advice, you don't have to pretent to be something you are not. just ask the question and we will be happy to answer it.