Any internationals post secondary status or II

[Hubie02]

I was told by a matriculated International that International applicant receive II later in the cycle. Just started this thread for internationals to report status just to ease anxieties and regulate hope.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[bytr]

Omg. Yes, please and thank you. This waiting game is testing my patience in every way possible. So far, I have an interview waitlist from WVU and a hold from SUNY Upstate.

 

[Hubie02]

I have a hold from SUNY

 

[PotatoFarmerOnAPotatoFarm]

Omg this thread just like eased my anxiety by a good 30%….

I was wondering if internationals were just held until later. Although, what about schools that treat Canadians as OOS?

 

[spiritualgbedu]

From Sierra Leone here. It’s so stressful seeing domestic students with lower stats flexing multiple IIs

 

[Orims]

It may vary school to school. I applied two cycles ago and received IIs as early as August and as late as Dec. Hang in there!

 

[bluelinguini]

hold from mayo + GW and 1 R from uchicago lol (canadian). hoping we hear something soon

 

[Hubie02]

Just got an II from Pitt!
OOS, complete 8/16

 

[Thenigeriandoc]

International here. 1 MD II and 4 DO II. Got an A from a DO school. Don’t know if this helps anyone!

 

[Hubie02]

International here. 1 MD II and 4 DO II. Got an A from a DO school. Don’t know if this helps anyone!

Which school for MD invite?

 

[runningwaffle75]

International student here, with 6 MD IIs and 1 DO II. 1 R and 1 hold as well. I'm not a stats unicorn by any means, so hang in there y'all! Hoping for good news for everyone soon

 

[Thenigeriandoc]

Which school for MD invite?

Stony Brook

 

[FPVRay]

Any DACA holders get II?

 

[bluelinguini]

International student here, with 6 MD IIs and 1 DO II. 1 R and 1 hold as well. I'm not a stats unicorn by any means, so hang in there y'all! Hoping for good news for everyone soon

Congrats!! Do you mind sharing some stats/background info (trad? non trad? ORM/URM?). Thanks!!

 

[runningwaffle75]

Congrats!! Do you mind sharing some stats/background info (trad? non trad? ORM/URM?). Thanks!!

I'm pretty non trad, URM, and a reapplicant. 3.5 uGPA, 4.0 SMP, 517 MCAT (3rd try - 501 & 504 the first 2 times). 3 gap years so I have tons of EC hours as well.

 

[bluelinguini]

I'm pretty non trad, URM, and a reapplicant. 3.5 uGPA, 4.0 SMP, 517 MCAT (3rd try - 501 & 504 the first 2 times). 3 gap years so I have tons of EC hours as well.

Cool thanks!!

 

[Hubie02]

Stony Brook

Thanks for the info

 

[Hubie02]

Pre II R from Boston university and Georgetown. You don't get anything for long and then boom 2 of them. Any international got any update?

 

[Thenigeriandoc]

Pre II R from Boston university and Georgetown. You don't get anything for long and then boom 2 of them. Any international got any update?

Still in the running at Boston. Pre II Rs at Georgetown, Pittsburgh and Stanford. It’s been a rough cycle with the silences

 

[MCAT_IS_ROUGH]

Pre II R from Boston university and Georgetown. You don't get anything for long and then boom 2 of them. Any international got any update?

same. two II so far and 3Rs

 

[Thenigeriandoc]

I want to start by saying this is a privileged position to be in and I’m not complaining but I wanted to ask this on a thread with several international students. I’m potentially going to be deciding between attending a T30 MD program and a Top DO program (II at 3 MDs with two being T30. I might be Rejected but I want to start thinking ahead). The MD program has made it clear that they won’t be disbursing any aid or scholarships for international students meanwhile the DO program has offered me a scholarship that knocks down COA by 50%. I’m so confused because everyone says pick MD but it’s not that simple at all.

Things to consider:

1. I’ll be paying for COA not covered by aid and scholarships with private loans

2. COA for both schools is roughly the same so I’ll be taking double the amount of the DO school to attend the MD school.

Thank you all to anyone with any advise.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Go with the lower student debt.

Of course this presumes the DO school is established and has few issues with student support and getting graduates to residency.

 

[hello-doc]

I want to start by saying this is a privileged position to be in and I’m not complaining but I wanted to ask this on a thread with several international students. I’m potentially going to be deciding between attending a T30 MD program and a Top DO program (II at 3 MDs with two being T30. I might be Rejected but I want to start thinking ahead). The MD program has made it clear that they won’t be disbursing any aid or scholarships for international students meanwhile the DO program has offered me a scholarship that knocks down COA by 50%. I’m so confused because everyone says pick MD but it’s not that simple at all.

Things to consider:

1. I’ll be paying for COA not covered by aid and scholarships with private loans

2. COA for both schools is roughly the same so I’ll be taking double the amount of the DO school to attend the MD school.

Thank you all to anyone with any advise.

Congratulations!! As a fellow international applicant, this is very inspiring to hear! Quick question regarding the DO scholarship, did you get notified about the scholarship decision at the same time you were accepted? If not, did have to apply separately for the scholarship? Once again, congratulations!!!!

 

[Thenigeriandoc]

Go with the lower student debt.

Of course this presumes the DO school is established and has few issues with student support and getting graduates to residency.

Yes. It’s definitely up there for DO schools. Respected amongst MDs. Are you just saying cause it’s the ideal option since I’d owe less or do you know any international students with private loan experiences that agree with this take? I’m genuinely curious cause everyone has told me pick MD and I’d love to hear more of an argument for the DO option.

 

[Thenigeriandoc]

Congratulations!! As a fellow international applicant, this is very inspiring to hear! Quick question regarding the DO scholarship, did you get notified about the scholarship decision at the same time you were accepted? If not, did have to apply separately for the scholarship? Once again, congratulations!!!!

PM me for more details but long story short is I set up meetings with everyone possible. You don’t want them to know you can’t pay before that A but once you get it then advocate for yourself. I met with a few people and just said “Hey, I love your school but I’m not taking out this much money in private loans to go here. I’m poor. My dad is retired.” It feels embarrassing or hard but the worst they’ll say is no. They can’t take back the A to give to someone with more money so I’d say be honest and talk to the right people.

 

[MCAT_IS_ROUGH]

I want to start by saying this is a privileged position to be in and I’m not complaining but I wanted to ask this on a thread with several international students. I’m potentially going to be deciding between attending a T30 MD program and a Top DO program (II at 3 MDs with two being T30. I might be Rejected but I want to start thinking ahead). The MD program has made it clear that they won’t be disbursing any aid or scholarships for international students meanwhile the DO program has offered me a scholarship that knocks down COA by 50%. I’m so confused because everyone says pick MD but it’s not that simple at all.

Things to consider:

1. I’ll be paying for COA not covered by aid and scholarships with private loans

2. COA for both schools is roughly the same so I’ll be taking double the amount of the DO school to attend the MD school.

Thank you all to anyone with any advise.

Hey congratulations!! My first instinct was " you gotta take that top 30 MD". But then re-reading your post gave me some new thoughts.

If you know financial burden will be a big factor in your medical school life, I think taking that DO does make sense. However there are a lot of stuff to consider. How much can your family support you during this time? Like will you be paying everything out of your loan, or your family can help you with 50% or more? From a pure cost benefit perspective, having a top MD under your name can get you into competitive specialities which in the long term can reimburse your investment back (ortho vs e.g. family medicine). So you also need to consider your future residency choices. What are you truly interested in?

On the other hand, are you interested in the DO curriculum at all, or just applied because "it's easier to get into?" Are you interested in practicing in rural area/primary care specialities? Are you interested in doing research? There have been a lot of information to show that a DO graduate can be as successful as a MD graduate, but still the school culture can be drastically different (especially regarding research opportunities). Also what about cost of living, which will be cheaper?

Lastly if you take the DO offer, will you regret in the next 10-15 years that you didn't attend that MD school?

I am in the exact same situation as you, and the place I am accepted to is asking for 4 years worth of tuition into an escrow account. However my intuition is still telling me to take the MD (for research and better residency matches of my interest). And feel free to disagree with anything here! Just my $0.02.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Yes. It’s definitely up there for DO schools. Respected amongst MDs. Are you just saying cause it’s the ideal option since I’d owe less or do you know any international students with private loan experiences that agree with this take? I’m genuinely curious cause everyone has told me pick MD and I’d love to hear more of an argument for the DO option.

that's bad advice. You take MD almost always, if not always. You will thank yourself later in your career. The career path from a DO school is so limited whereas an MD from a t30 opens the doors to EVERYTHING in medicine and outside of medicine. In case you don't want to practice medicine forever, pharma is a very viable and lucrative path but DO's are never hired by pharma. Or if you want to take on some leadership position in a hospital system, again DO's don't stand a chance. In short, in medicine, DO is still considered second-class.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Go with the lower student debt.

Of course this presumes the DO school is established and has few issues with student support and getting graduates to residency.

sorry, this is very uninformed advice coming from a non-physician. see above for the reason why. in real world, MD >>>> DO. If an IMG or Caribbean MD can get a residency here, their career path is >>>>> US DO. DO is like a stigma one can't change once you get one.

 

[Thenigeriandoc]

Hey congratulations!! My first instinct was " you gotta take that top 30 MD". But then re-reading your post gave me some new thoughts.

If you know financial burden will be a big factor in your medical school life, I think taking that DO does make sense. However there are a lot of stuff to consider. How much can your family support you during this time? Like will you be paying everything out of your loan, or your family can help you with 50% or more? From a pure cost benefit perspective, having a top MD under your name can get you into competitive specialities which in the long term can reimburse your investment back (ortho vs e.g. family medicine). So you also need to consider your future residency choices. What are you truly interested in?

On the other hand, are you interested in the DO curriculum at all, or just applied because "it's easier to get into?" Are you interested in practicing in rural area/primary care specialities? Are you interested in doing research? There have been a lot of information to show that a DO graduate can be as successful as a MD graduate, but still the school culture can be drastically different (especially regarding research opportunities). Also what about cost of living, which will be cheaper?

Lastly if you take the DO offer, will you regret in the next 10-15 years that you didn't attend that MD school?

I am in the exact same situation as you, and the place I am accepted to is asking for 4 years worth of tuition into an escrow account. However my intuition is still telling me to take the MD (for research and better residency matches of my interest). And feel free to disagree with anything here! Just my $0.02.

Did you peak into my head. Feels like you read my thoughts and articulated them way better than I ever could. The problem for me is my answer to most of these questions are “I don’t know”.


Additional info that may be insightful:

1. The DO school has amazing research opportunities. Lack of research opportunities isn’t something I’m worried about at all with this school. This might give the school away but I’d say it’s arguably the most research funded DO school. However, no DO school can complete with a T30 MD school. Just the doors that alone would open.

2. I have no idea what specialty I want to practice. I know for a fact it isn’t family medicine though. Maybe some sort of surgery but I couldn’t tell you today. Also not a problem at this DO school because they had several student match into none FM residencies with a 98/99% match rate last cycle and a high match rate for international students who graduate from there as well.

3. I love love love the DO curriculum but the thought of taking two board exams is ugh. One is bad enough.

Final thoughts: I love the DO school. But realistically speaking I would have way more opportunities at the MD school. I wouldn’t have to struggle as much and I’ve fought so so hard to get here but I don’t think I want to fight unnecessary battles. I want to take the path of least resistance. If money wasn’t an issue I’d probably pick the MD program so I don’t know how I wouldn’t regret this 20 years down the line however. $400k vs $200k in private loan debt sounds like a worse regret.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Did you peak into my head. Feels like you read my thoughts and articulated them way better than I ever could. The problem for me is my answer to most of these questions are “I don’t know”.


Additional info that may be insightful:

1. The DO school has amazing research opportunities. Lack of research opportunities isn’t something I’m worried about at all with this school. This might give the school away but I’d say it’s arguably the most research funded DO school. However, no DO school can complete with a T30 MD school. Just the doors that alone would open.

2. I have no idea what specialty I want to practice. I know for a fact it isn’t family medicine though. Maybe some sort of surgery but I couldn’t tell you today. Also not a problem at this DO school because they had several student match into none FM residencies with a 98/99% match rate last cycle and a high match rate for international students who graduate from there as well.

3. I love love love the DO curriculum but the thought of taking two board exams is ugh. One is bad enough.

Final thoughts: I love the DO school. But realistically speaking I would have way more opportunities at the MD school. I wouldn’t have to struggle as much and I’ve fought so so hard to get here but I don’t think I want to fight unnecessary battles. I want to take the path of least resistance. If money wasn’t an issue I’d probably pick the MD program so I don’t know how I wouldn’t regret this 20 years down the line however. $400k vs $200k in private loan debt sounds like a worse regret.

the real analogy is paying 400k to get an apartment that has all the amenities vs paying 200k to get one that has a communal bathroom. Worse, once you make that decision, you can't trade it up. lol

 

[hello-doc]

.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Well I was really proud of my achievements untill now and I feel like second class now - maybe I should go to the Caribbean.

I have "MD level stats", tons of research, publications and thousands of service hours, and I got zero MD interviews for 3 cycels. The school that offered me feedback told me everything was great and they did not know why I didn't get an interview. Sometimes I feel like this world is unfair, seeing others get in and that I will always be considered second class.

That's why a lot of people decline DO offers to try MD over and over. It's really a cruel reality in the field. However, if your goal is to be a clinician in primary care without much ambition in leadership or things outside of medicine, DO is fine. I think everyone who's board certified and licensed is competent enough to see patients. But a lot of clinicians get tired of clinical work and want to branch out later in their career. DO basically doesn't allow for that option.

 

[hello-doc]

.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

Do you think I am better off going overseas and get an MD over USDO?

It's a double-edged sword. As a US DO, you will have a better chance matching, but your career afterwards is limited. As an IMG MD, you will have a harder time matching but once you are matched, your career path is indistinguishable from USMD.

 

[MCAT_IS_ROUGH]

Did you peak into my head. Feels like you read my thoughts and articulated them way better than I ever could. The problem for me is my answer to most of these questions are “I don’t know”.


Additional info that may be insightful:

1. The DO school has amazing research opportunities. Lack of research opportunities isn’t something I’m worried about at all with this school. This might give the school away but I’d say it’s arguably the most research funded DO school. However, no DO school can complete with a T30 MD school. Just the doors that alone would open.

2. I have no idea what specialty I want to practice. I know for a fact it isn’t family medicine though. Maybe some sort of surgery but I couldn’t tell you today. Also not a problem at this DO school because they had several student match into none FM residencies with a 98/99% match rate last cycle and a high match rate for international students who graduate from there as well.

3. I love love love the DO curriculum but the thought of taking two board exams is ugh. One is bad enough.

Final thoughts: I love the DO school. But realistically speaking I would have way more opportunities at the MD school. I wouldn’t have to struggle as much and I’ve fought so so hard to get here but I don’t think I want to fight unnecessary battles. I want to take the path of least resistance. If money wasn’t an issue I’d probably pick the MD program so I don’t know how I wouldn’t regret this 20 years down the line however. $400k vs $200k in private loan debt sounds like a worse regret.

I hope not!! Or you might need to ask a neurosurgeon to remove me jkjk but yea this is tough....I really feel you struggle bro (or girl!) since I'm literally in an extremely similar situation.

I have a feeling just reading your post, that you are leaning towards the MD but also trying to justify that taking the DO option is right. Like from reading your post I can tell you are trying to justify to others that it's not a bad idea to take the DO?? And that is totally okay! There is no bad choice here, just good and better ones.

Reading this and the post before kinda make me want to talk you to take the MD more now. Remember it's not just an MD--it's a TOP 30 MD. For internationals like you and me to match into residency (especially good ones) there are a lot to consider, including the visa sponsorship they give. If you match into a J1 visa program you might need to go back to your native country for 3 years or something (don't remember that much, anyone feel free to correct me). You'd probably want to match into a H1B program. so I feel like take the MD will give you the maximum 100% chance of getting into the program you want with so many more options (location, visa, salary, prestige, everything), especially for a competitive one like surgery (I worked at two different top 10 medical centers during UG and gap year, but honestly have not seen any DO surgeons in my life). You'll probably thank yourself later.

On the other hand 200k honestly....yeah it's a lot for a broken 20ish-years-old but in your mid career that's not even one year of your salary, but only maybe just 20% of it (if you are successful!!). Think about that...I know you mentioned that the DO school has research opportunities, but also consider your own funding situation. When you become an attending and running clinical trials, I would assume you'll have a much easier time getting your grant/proposal/trials approved as an MD than DO. Also think about the network opportunities you will have--how many MD graduates from school A have matched into high ranked residencies, and are now faculties at renowned institutions vs DO graduates from school B? I disagree with srirachamayonnaise's argument that DO is 2nd class degree (come on dude it's 2022 stop the degree shaming thing), but he/she is absolutely right that MD will open way more doors for you which in the long run will be more lucrative (consulting, board advisors, pharm, all sort of stuff).

If I were in your shoes, there are two senarios that may force me to take the DO. Otherwise from reading your description i'll take the MD 100%.
1. Your family is in need of money urgently. Like if my family members are sick/financially unstable etc as an there is no way I'll ask them for more money to get that MD as an Asian kid lol. I'll definitely take the DO and still be the best physician I can be and help them out.
2. The MD school is toxic, neurotic, competitive and you hate that environment while you feel like you will thrive at the DO school. (I know this might be hard to tell but just from browsing the internet and interview experience I think you will get the general vibe). In that case 200k+ debt plus mental health will push me toward DO school.

Yeah I think that's all my thoughts for now! Feel free to disagree with any of them or DM me etc. Love to see my fellow international applicants success and thrive

 

[Hubie02]

IIs from St. Louis and UVA this past week. Wishing for some more Dec/Jan invites for everyone!

 

[soontobedoc98]

IIs from St. Louis and UVA this past week. Wishing for some more Dec/Jan invites for everyone!

Congrats!

Stats?

Just curious... does anyone know if internationals are evaluated a bit LATER than American applicants?

 

[Hubie02]

Congrats!

Stats?

Just curious... does anyone know if internationals are evaluated a bit LATER than American applicants?

LM 74.5

 

[runningwaffle75]

Random II from UVA this week just when I thought the cycle was over! Hoping for more good news for everyone!! 🫶🏾🫶🏾

 

[F1andHopeful]

A from Stony Brook. LM 69.

 

[dontfindmenomatterwhat]

International / AOS here. Received a few instant rejections (Pritzker, Cleveland Clinic) and then 6 IIs all in Late Oct + through Nov.

Received first A recently from Icahn SOM.

 

[F1andHopeful]

International / AOS here. Received a few instant rejections (Pritzker, Cleveland Clinic) and then 6 IIs all in Late Oct + through Nov.

Received first A recently from Icahn SOM.

Congratulations!!

 

[Hubie02]

Got accepted at UVA. Huge congrats to everyone who got the A and best of luck for people waiting!

 

[F1andHopeful]

Got accepted at UVA , Huge congrats to everyone who got the A and best of luck for people waiting .

Congratulations

 

[Hubie02]

Accepted at Pitt!!

 

[F1andHopeful]

Accepted at Pitt!!

Congratulations

 

[s.nd]

I'm pretty non trad, URM, and a reapplicant. 3.5 uGPA, 4.0 SMP, 517 MCAT (3rd try - 501 & 504 the first 2 times). 3 gap years so I have tons of EC hours as well.

Hi! I know this thread is very old but would you mind sharing which schools gave you II last cycle? (I’m an international student with no II and need to probably reapply so just trying to see how things could go if I reapply)

 

[pablo213]

Hi! I know this thread is very old but would you mind sharing which schools gave you II last cycle? (I’m an international student with no II and need to probably reapply so just trying to see how things could go if I reapply)

From what I could see, they got IIs from:
UVA
Rutgers, New Jersey
TCU
Georgetown
Jefferson (kimmel)
Stony Brook
Drexel
Colorado
Tulane

 

[s.nd]

Thank you so so much!

 

[runningwaffle75]

Hi! I know this thread is very old but would you mind sharing which schools gave you II last cycle? (I’m an international student with no II and need to probably reapply so just trying to see how things could go if I reapply)

Feel free to DM me!