Any of you prescribing ivermectin?

[Groove]

I'm gonna go against the grain here.

Yes, I wrote a few Rx of Ivermectin earlier in the pandemic when we had a few small studies that showed possible benefit, primarily to patients that were just hell bent on having it after having a long discussion with them about it's experimental nature. Then more data came out and I stopped. Now, we have the highly sensationalized meta analysis combined with a concerted effort by the media/legislature which have pressured the medical organizations to demonize any practitioners that continue to prescribe it. We wouldn't even be talking about ivermectin if that hadn't happened. Even if you DID prescribe it based on bad data, what a ridiculously safe drug. It's beyond difficult to overdose on. You have to spend an hour on pubmed and google to find 1 or 2 case studies of people that have hurt themselves with ivermectin. Half of these overdose stories have been debunked already. You'd have to drink the entire bottle of cattle pour or injectable IVOMEC to get any symptoms and most of it would be transient vomiting. I still prescribe it for scabies.

I'd love to see an honest poll and see how many docs are writing abx for their COVID patients. How about docs who prescribed hydroxychloroquine earlier in the pandemic when we had a lot less data? The fact that some of you are turning on your own and reporting them to state medical boards and medical organizations for prescribing ivermectin of all things is beyond shameful. Maybe these docs aren't as up to date on evidence based literature and are working their asses off during this pandemic doing the best they can to help people? They've got families to take care of for God's sake. You won't turn them in for prescribing too many narcotics, but you'll turn them in for prescribing Ivermectin of all things. What a bunch of tools. I hope I never work with you.

Two things I'll never do. I'll never rat out a fellow EM doc for anything less than egregious malpractice. I'll also never testify against a fellow EM doc in any malpractice lawsuit, no matter how much they offer to pay me.

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[DoctwoB]

I'm gonna go against the grain here.

Yes, I wrote a few Rx of Ivermectin earlier in the pandemic when we had a few small studies that showed possible benefit, primarily to patients that were just hell bent on having it after having a long discussion with them about it's experimental nature. Then more data came out and I stopped. Now, we have the highly sensationalized meta analysis combined with a concerted effort by the media/legislature which have pressured the medical organizations to demonize any practitioners that continue to prescribe it. We wouldn't even be talking about ivermectin if that hadn't happened. Even if you DID prescribe it based on bad data, what a ridiculously safe drug. It's beyond difficult to overdose on. You have to spend an hour on pubmed and google to find 1 or 2 case studies of people that have hurt themselves with ivermectin. Half of these overdose stories have been debunked already. You'd have to drink the entire bottle of cattle pour or injectable IVOMEC to get any symptoms and most of it would be transient vomiting. I still prescribe it for scabies.

I'd love to see an honest poll and see how many docs are writing abx for their COVID patients. How about docs who prescribed hydroxychloroquine earlier in the pandemic when we had a lot less data? The fact that some of you are turning on your own and reporting them to state medical boards and medical organizations for prescribing ivermectin of all things is beyond shameful. Maybe these docs aren't as up to date on evidence based literature and are working their asses off during this pandemic doing the best they can to help people? They've got families to take care of for God's sake. You won't turn them in for prescribing too many narcotics, but you'll turn them in for prescribing Ivermectin of all things. What a bunch of tools. I hope I never work with you.

Two things I'll never do. I'll never rat out a fellow EM doc for anything less than egregious malpractice. I'll also never testify against a fellow EM doc in any malpractice lawsuit, no matter how much they offer to pay me.

I (and I think most docs) agree with you that we shouldn't be trying to land fellow docs in hot water for prescribing a relatively safe medication that many patients are demanding. We've all been in a situation where it's easier to hand a patient a safe script then to convince them otherwise, especially in areas of medicine where customer satisfaction is a huge focus.

What most of these measures have been targeting are the equivalent of pill mills, docs who are prescribing everyone and their mother ivermectin for $200 cash often without adequate assessment or exam. This is unethical profiteering at best and fraud at worst, and these docs deserve whats coming to them.

 

[Apollyon]

Molnupiravir, which Merck says is a game changer.

 

[Groove]

I (and I think most docs) agree with you that we shouldn't be trying to land fellow docs in hot water for prescribing a relatively safe medication that many patients are demanding. We've all been in a situation where it's easier to hand a patient a safe script then to convince them otherwise, especially in areas of medicine where customer satisfaction is a huge focus.

What most of these measures have been targeting are the equivalent of pill mills, docs who are prescribing everyone and their mother ivermectin for $200 cash often without adequate assessment or exam. This is unethical profiteering at best and fraud at worst, and these docs deserve whats coming to them.

Yeah, but dude... It's like the Salem witch trials against a group of docs prescribing a medication that literally just fell out of favor a few months ago. Some of these guys aren't reading Annals every month or surfing UpToDate during every shift, or even reading SDN. Give them a break, hell even a year to get caught up on data. On top of that, I'd have an easier time overdosing on my silver centrum vitamins vis-a-vis Ivermectin (in any variant). Reporting these guys to state boards and agencies is nuts. I'm so sick of media/medical boards/medical organizations using these brute force information campaigns to peer pressure us into helping carry out an agenda, especially when it turns us into a pack of piranhas feeding on ourselves. It reminds me of that Athene investor commercial where all the investors had their heads in the sand and one panic ran off a cliff and all the rest followed in true herd mentality.

As for pill mills, since when was destroying an ivermectin/z-pack pill mill a big priority for us at this point and time in the pandemic? Pill mills have been alive and well for 100 years. I'd much rather take down the pill mill that is cranking out hundreds of dilaudid tabs for all their newly diagnosed "fibromyalgia" patients versus the entrepreneur EM teledoc who isn't even prescribing anything that is controlled. Talk about a gigantic eye roll.

 

[WilcoWorld]

Molnupiravir, which Merck says is a game changer.

Curious about this as well.

 

[Dred Pirate]

Yeah, but dude... It's like the Salem witch trials against a group of docs prescribing a medication that literally just fell out of favor a few months ago. Some of these guys aren't reading Annals every month or surfing UpToDate during every shift, or even reading SDN. Give them a break, hell even a year to get caught up on data. On top of that, I'd have an easier time overdosing on my silver centrum vitamins vis-a-vis Ivermectin (in any variant).

you did see that two people did just die from overdoing on ivermectin right?

But ya - I do agree with you about the opioid pill mills completley

 

[bravotwozero]

Curious about this as well.

Apparently an independent body monitoring the study told the researchers to stop the study halfway through, because of how effective the drug was in the treatment arm, i.e. would have been unethical to continue putting people in the placebo group at that point.

Looks promising. If this thing is legit and does what the study is showing, this pandemic is effectively over (I know, famous last words...)

 

[thegenius]

Apparently an independent body monitoring the study told the researchers to stop the study halfway through, because of how effective the drug was in the treatment arm, i.e. would have been unethical to continue putting people in the placebo group at that point.

Looks promising. If this thing is legit and does what the study is showing, this pandemic is effectively over (I know, famous last words...)

Yea and Merck will make 10's of billions of dollars too, maybe more.

 

[Groove]

you did see that two people did just die from overdoing on ivermectin right?

But ya - I do agree with you about the opioid pill mills completley

We don't know anything about those two cases in NM. This is National Enquirer level stuff. All we know is that one of them already had COVID and was sick enough to be on HD and in the ICU. We don't know when they took ivermectin or if it had anything to do with their death. Little to nothing is known about the other one. What we do have is the following quote by officials:

"In a press briefing Thursday, New Mexico Human Services Secretary Dr. David Scrase said he took a "calculated risk" in announcing the suspected overdose death "without firm documentation" that ivermectin was to blame."

Smells like fake Ivermectin news to me considering the safety profile of the drug. Meanwhile, we still have studies like this one being published:

Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of COVID-19... : American Journal of Therapeutics

mortality, in secondary outcomes, and in chemoprophylaxis, among people with, or at high risk of, COVID-19 infection. Data sources: We searched bibliographic databases up to April 25, 2021. Two review authors sifted for studies, extracted data, and assessed risk of bias. Meta-analyses were...

journals.lww.com

It seems to me that the medical community can't quite make their mind up as to whether Ivermectin helps COVID or doesn't. Far from the slam dunk thimble full of hemlock the press would have us believe. It's supposedly absolutely worthless in fighting COVID and detrimental to your health....yet we still have several ongoing studies analyzing it's effectiveness in combating COVID-19. Talk about things that make you go hmmm..

 

[southerndoc]

We don't know anything about those two cases in NM. This is National Enquirer level stuff. All we know is that one of them already had COVID and was sick enough to be on HD and in the ICU. We don't know when they took ivermectin or if it had anything to do with their death. Little to nothing is known about the other one. What we do have is the following quote by officials:

"In a press briefing Thursday, New Mexico Human Services Secretary Dr. David Scrase said he took a "calculated risk" in announcing the suspected overdose death "without firm documentation" that ivermectin was to blame."

Smells like fake Ivermectin news to me considering the safety profile of the drug. Meanwhile, we still have studies like this one being published:

Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of COVID-19... : American Journal of Therapeutics

mortality, in secondary outcomes, and in chemoprophylaxis, among people with, or at high risk of, COVID-19 infection. Data sources: We searched bibliographic databases up to April 25, 2021. Two review authors sifted for studies, extracted data, and assessed risk of bias. Meta-analyses were...

journals.lww.com

It seems to me that the medical community can't quite make their mind up as to whether Ivermectin helps COVID or doesn't. Far from the slam dunk thimble full of hemlock the press would have us believe. It's supposedly absolutely worthless in fighting COVID and detrimental to your health....yet we still have several ongoing studies analyzing it's effectiveness in combating COVID-19. Talk about things that make you go hmmm..

I agree that things are tied to ivermectin when they are already complicated. It reminds me of the data that caused droperidol getting pulled from the market. Out of the deaths attributed to droperidol, many were in septic shock, were major trauma patients, etc. where mortality is already high. Doesn't mean droperidol caused their deaths. I think if I remember correctly, only 8 deaths were truly attributed to droperidol when the data was re-analyzed.

Having said that, I don't think the evidence is there to use ivermectin and I think the risk of harm is more than the benefit. It is not studied enough to recommend treatment with it.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

We don't know anything about those two cases in NM. This is National Enquirer level stuff. All we know is that one of them already had COVID and was sick enough to be on HD and in the ICU. We don't know when they took ivermectin or if it had anything to do with their death. Little to nothing is known about the other one. What we do have is the following quote by officials:

"In a press briefing Thursday, New Mexico Human Services Secretary Dr. David Scrase said he took a "calculated risk" in announcing the suspected overdose death "without firm documentation" that ivermectin was to blame."

Smells like fake Ivermectin news to me considering the safety profile of the drug. Meanwhile, we still have studies like this one being published:

Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of COVID-19... : American Journal of Therapeutics

mortality, in secondary outcomes, and in chemoprophylaxis, among people with, or at high risk of, COVID-19 infection. Data sources: We searched bibliographic databases up to April 25, 2021. Two review authors sifted for studies, extracted data, and assessed risk of bias. Meta-analyses were...

journals.lww.com

It seems to me that the medical community can't quite make their mind up as to whether Ivermectin helps COVID or doesn't. Far from the slam dunk thimble full of hemlock the press would have us believe. It's supposedly absolutely worthless in fighting COVID and detrimental to your health....yet we still have several ongoing studies analyzing it's effectiveness in combating COVID-19. Talk about things that make you go hmmm..

One of our UC doctors had an invermectin overdose 3 weeks ago. Met the clinical signs to a T.

 

[Birdstrike]

One of our UC doctors had an invermectin overdose 3 weeks ago. Met the clinical signs to a T.

Your doc treated the ivermectin OD or was the OD?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Your doc treated the ivermectin OD or was the OD?

Diagnosed it, given that the patient had gone blind I'm pretty sure he sent them to the ER.

 

[Groove]

One of our UC doctors had an invermectin overdose 3 weeks ago. Met the clinical signs to a T.

Well please have him submit a case study so we can add it to our hundreds and thousands of non lethal, benign ivermectin ingestions. We've got more cases on frat guys overdosing on water drinking contests during rush week.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Well please have him submit a case study so we can add it to our hundreds and thousands of non lethal, benign ivermectin ingestions. We've got more cases on frat guys overdosing on water drinking contests during rush week.

Yeah I'll get right on that.

The issue isn't that ivermectin at the usual doses is unsafe (it really isn't) its either a) the people taking livestock doses (which is what this patient did) or b) those FLCCC doctors protocol has ivermectin dosed at 3X the standard dose and instead of the usual 2 doses across either 2 days or 7 they recommend it for 5 straight days. So 3X the daily dose and 2.5X the duration of therapy. Even that is probably not harmful, but it also has no proven benefit. We're all trained to assess risk v. benefit. Even a minimal risk with no benefit makes that something we probably shouldn't be doing.

 

[wholeheartedly]

The issue is that some doctors and others are overhyping and glamorizing its use as a sure fire cure-all and the public goes bonkers and thinks they can self treat.

A reasonable description and assessment of the issue

https://emergency.cdc.gov/han/2021/pdf/CDC_HAN_449.pdf

 

[rokshana]

Yea and Merck will make 10's of billions of dollars too, maybe more.

If they can stop a pandemic in its tracks… they earned it…

 

[thegenius]

I doubt competition in the EV market is going to be a problem. Everyone and their grandmother is trying to manufacture EVs now. Ford already has a huge waitlist for their F150 lightning.
***

I hope you are right. Tesla's only choice is to raise the bar on quality and interior fit/finish or they will be destroyed. Their main is technology, and their EV powertrain is unbeatable at the moment. I considered the Taycan as well, but for $105,000 base price it didn't make much sense. In typical Porsche fashion they make you buy "packages" just to get a few features you want, and reasonably optioned was over $120K. Likewise the new Mercedes EQS, which should be competition starts at over 100K for a relatively low-performing, single motor version.

Too much going on today to see it dipped below 24.5, might have bought more then. Suspect a pop coming next week.

Theta gang!

By the way, you aren't necessarily legally obligated to buy shares with a put, as long as you buy to close before the expiration date.

FWIW, LCID has been down a little recently and I wrote some Nov 20.00 strike put options for 1.12

 

[BoardingDoc]

Thread seems to have run its course. Closing.