Any One else finding MCAT Rediculously hard And Impossible???

[Corpus Callosum]

I have never worked as hard in my life like this before, and never felt that stupid about myself, for me months are not breaking it, and I have 2 science bachelors, 1 science masters, aviation associate, I am just losing confidence in my school abilities, and I am a good student 4.0 graduate gpa, 3.5 undergraduate
sometimes I just feel you have to have a phd in every single area on the mcat to really bomb the test, to be honest sometimes even after reading the explanation of the question, I still would not understand, if fact I get more confused and the next time I answer things that I previously knew, wrong, I don't know, I am just so stunned at this test and what people do to do well????
I really do not believe in the logic and fairness of this test the least, and the first thing I am planning to do if I ever make it up there is to protest and change this stupid test, maybe get rid of it?
you guys with me on that?

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[brianmartin]

but the verbal reasoning for instance, what patient is going to benefit from geology and rocks, I am just not seeing any connection there, totally pointless.

If you can't understand why they test verbal, then you have a long, painful road ahead of you. My advice would be to take a step back and just think about what the MCAT is - a screening device. They are looking for people who can read through something quickly and think critically about it.

 

[littlealex]

Add 2 points, first community colleges do not offer bachelor degress and almost all MD applicants has a BS which means they have went to 1 college or another,
Second I think a 4.0 student (or humbly a good student the least) is hard working and achiever anywhere, and yes, they may not be 4.0 at yale versus X college, but maybe 3.5 and above, and I would imagine every 1 agrees that 3.5 at yale is as good or better than 4 somewhere, so things average out at the end. Ya schools might have varying standards, but commited students will always try anywhere, and good smart students are also smart anywhere, in fact I read in one study that students at top schools try much harder than being anywhere else, and the reaon other than being harder standards, was sincere commitment and and added challenge.

Good smart students are not smart everywhere. At my school I've seen so many hard working students who are incredibly committed to academics, but at the end of the day just are not smart enough to compete with the rest of the pack. They make it through college, but can barely get a 3.3 GPA.

More importantly, smart students are not smart everywhere. I had spent most of my high school years thinking I was smart. I got a 1530 on the SATs, 5's on every single one of my AP tests, and a very high GPA from one of the best high schools in the country. I thought I was smart.

Three months into college, it was made painfully clear to me that while I may have some talents, I'm just another average student, and being average means a 3.0 GPA.

In my four years at college I come to realize that almost every one of my peers are smarter then me. I can confidently say that this would not be the case at a college that has a 1200 SAT average.

Being smart at Podunk U is not anywhere the same as being smart at MIT, and you really have to have experienced both to be able to understand just the immense difference of the level of competition.

I've taken 29 credits of classes at a 4 year university near my house (4.0 there). Yes, there are tons of smart students there, but there were few enough that anyone who is remotely intelligent and tries very hard gets an A in the class, buoyant by the hundreds of others who just don't try hard enough. Compare that to a competitive college where the students have an average SAT score of 1500 and all study very hard, and you'll soon realize that the 3.5 from a top school deserves enormous respect.

We have already been through this. The science mcat tests that more vigorously, there is no need for a verbal unreasoning which can place certain groups at a disadvantage. I have personally met and been to seminars for doctors who can barely speak english, needless to say that they are stars in their fields, to give you an example I know a chinese doctor, whom if you meet on a first encounter, with all due respect to him, you can hardly understand anything he is saying, yet try to compete with him on grant proposals to NIH, you absolutely bare no chance.This is one example of many, that again screams loud and clear of the void and yet seemingly aimful strategies that the mcat encompasses.

I thought we're science people? Statistically those that do well on verbal do better on Step1 exams. Schools want students who can learn quickly and place into competitive specialties.
The Chinese doctor who can't communicate verbal may make a great researcher because of his sheer intelligence, but he does not make a good doctor.

 

[Corpus Callosum]

We have already been through this. The science mcat tests that more vigorously, there is no need for a verbal unreasoning which can place certain groups at a disadvantage. I have personally met and been to seminars for doctors who can barely speak english, needless to say that they are stars in their fields, to give you an example I know a chinese doctor, whom if you meet on a first encounter, with all due respect to him, you can hardly understand anything he is saying, yet try to compete with him on grant proposals to NIH, you absolutely bare no chance.This is one example of many, that again screams loud and clear of the void and yet seemingly aimful strategies that the mcat encompasses.

If you can't understand why they test verbal, then you have a long, painful road ahead of you. My advice would be to take a step back and just think about what the MCAT is - a screening device. They are looking for people who can read through something quickly and think critically about it.

 

[NRAI2001]

We have already been through this. The science mcat tests that more vigorously, there is no need for a verbal unreasoning which can place certain groups at a disadvantage. I have personally met and been to seminars for doctors who can barely speak english, needless to say that they are stars in their fields, to give you an example I know a chinese doctor, whom if you meet on a first encounter, with all due respect to him, you can hardly understand anything he is saying, yet try to compete with him on grant proposals to NIH, you absolutely bare no chance.This is one example of many, that again screams loud and clear of the void and yet seemingly aimful strategies that the mcat encompasses.

Dude I know how you feel about the mcat studying thing, it sucks. But basically thats ur life now for the next 8 years. Med school basically requires you to maintain that level of studying (time and intensity) as you had done for the mcat. You will have like 5 to 7 hrs of classes and then 5 to 7 hrs of studying per day. Start missing days of studying and it piles up very quickly.

The whole it ll be ok if i study 10 hrs a day in med school bc it will be for my profession comment someone made was BS..there will be days when you question what all this stuff has to do with and from what I hear the stuff u learn first two years has only minimal application during clinical rotations.

( I did a 1 year SMP; first year of med school, so i have a good idea of what med school is like = very very difficult, you will hate your life at times).

 

[Corpus Callosum]

The Chinese Doctor I mentioned is an MD/PhD. Will you approve of his degree?, just kidding he probably seeks no such approval anyways
"(but he does not make a good doctor)" again conjecture, you don't know what takes place at his clinic and/or whether he is successful in his practice.

Good smart students are not smart everywhere. At my school I've seen so many hard working students who are incredibly committed to academics, but at the end of the day just are not smart enough to compete with the rest of the pack. They make it through college, but can barely get a 3.3 GPA.

More importantly, smart students are not smart everywhere. I had spent most of my high school years thinking I was smart. I got a 1530 on the SATs, 5's on every single one of my AP tests, and a very high GPA from one of the best high schools in the country. I thought I was smart.

Three months into college, it was made painfully clear to me that while I may have some talents, I'm just another average student, and being average means a 3.0 GPA.

In my four years at college I come to realize that almost every one of my peers are smarter then me. I can confidently say that this would not be the case at a college that has a 1200 SAT average.

Being smart at Podunk U is not anywhere the same as being smart at MIT, and you really have to have experienced both to be able to understand just the immense difference of the level of competition.

I've taken 29 credits of classes at a 4 year university near my house (4.0 there). Yes, there are tons of smart students there, but there were few enough that anyone who is remotely intelligent and tries very hard gets an A in the class, buoyant by the hundreds of others who just don't try hard enough. Compare that to a competitive college where the students have an average SAT score of 1500 and all study very hard, and you'll soon realize that the 3.5 from a top school deserves enormous respect.




I thought we're science people? Statistically those that do well on verbal do better on Step1 exams. Schools want students who can learn quickly and place into competitive specialties.
The Chinese doctor who can't communicate verbal may make a great researcher because of his sheer intelligence, but he does not make a good doctor.

 

[DrReo]

It's just a hypothetical situation/example. So chill. Also, I'm not dragging your 7 years through the mud. You have spent countless numbers of hours complaining about the MCAT, which didn't accomplish anything but releaving your fusteration(s). Finally, good luck .

That is very daring offensive rediculous step to call my 7 years or any1 else's years a cake walk. You don't even know me, or know my record. I would be very careful before making such comments and dragging peopl'e career and life through the mud.

 

[estairella]

Huh... I just realized Corpus Callosum only has 20 posts. First 3 were starting threads complaining about the MCAT.

I think I fell for a troll...

So ashamed now.

*goes in a corner to cry*

 

[hferdjal]

nah, a troll is someone who doesn't make sense. Corpus has some good points here and there, but the bottom point is that the MCAT is here to stay, regardless of it's imperfections. It's way too impractical to test for doctors in any other way. So you just have to buckle down for it, and hope you pass. Then you can forget about it and hope you do better on the USLME which has a more defined course subset and a "verbal portion" (Medical Ethics and Empathy) that's a bit more related to the medical profession.

 

[littlealex]

The Chinese Doctor I mentioned is an MD/PhD. Will you approve of his degree?, just kidding he probably seeks no such approval anyways
"(but he does not make a good doctor)" again conjecture, you don't know what takes place at his clinic and/or whether he is successful in his practice.

I have enormous respect for MdPhds, many of my friends are pursuing such a degree in hopes of doing academic medicine. However, at the end of the day, being a physician involves working closely with a team of people and sometimes the patients. I just can't imagine a doctor who can't communicate to work well at a team.

I would agree that it is possible. Certain specialties does not require as much communication as others, radiology is one that comes to mind. So yes, I agree with you that I really have on way of knowing whether or not he is both a good researcher and a good doctor. Do I think he would be a better doctor if he speaks fluently? Yes.

You also mentioned him to support the idea that you don't need to have strong reading comprehension in order to succeed as a doctor. Given the fact that this guy is a brilliant researcher and has a knack for acquiring NIH funding, I'm guessing he reads and writes more then competently. He may speak with an accent, but I'd be very much surprised if he can't score higher then a 10 on verbal.

hferdjal is right, the MCAT is here to stay. Part of the reason is because it correlates, along with the GPA, with success on the USMLE step1 scores.

Can you do well in medical school while doing poorly on the MCAT? Of course. But you're more likely to do well in medical school if you have a high GPA/MCAT.


p.s. Can a mod edit the title of this thread? I don't know why seeing thread titles misspelled bothers me so much. Part of the reason I keep checking back to this thread was to see if it has been fixed.

 

[gujuDoc]

Thanks for your concern, and for reminding me of my reality: been jailed in my room for 5 months, 1 more to go, doing nothing more than studying, reframed from flight instructing making 45 $/hr, wow I am supposed to be happy, right!!!, prison would have offered me more freedom than the 1 i am in now, just hate organic chemistry and chemitry, but thanks for reminding me that I have to study). yes I will take the test and will do fine, (except for maybe VR) and I will make it to medical school, however that is all besides the point and hardly the issue here. does me doing all this make the process more or less just? in my oppinion no. See,this is an educated debate, conducted (the aim at least) in a friendly scientific manner to try to gather people's input and oppinion, there is no need for sensitivity and frustration, no 1 is trying to take the mcat away from you,
This is analogous to a patient who is trying to debate his diagnosis with you to further understand its roots, all you would say is: just shut up and go take what I am prescribing you and don't keep complaining!!!! I can't see that patient ever coming back to you(lets hope that never happens). See I think the attitude here is as critical as any other, (maybe more so) in becoming a physician, you know my organic chemitry professor told me once, premed students have the worst attitude of all (his oppinion, I am just citing). Do not prove him right!
and every once in a while responding and engaging in this debate and talking to you guys, no its not waste of time, my pleasure,

Wow you have serious issues. When someone tells you to stop complaining and whining about all that is unjust that hardly is an indication of how they will treat a patient who is not educated in their diseases. I for one would never tell a patient to shut up and take something without doing their own research. In fact after realizing very painfully that I was diagnosed with something that may have resulted from a medication I was on for nearly 15 years of my life, and that had someone stopped that medication or taken my complaints seriously (my parents mostly) that I might not have been dealing with those certain health issues, I know first hand that I'd be the last person who would ever tell someone to shut up.

Since I have a PDR that was given free, these days I'm the first person to do proper research on any medication given to me and not take anything at face value.

however, I believe the situation with a patient doctor relationship and an ill person getting a treatment and telling your colleagues to stop arguing and whining about the unjust things in their life is not comparable.

You have spent the last few days if not last couple of weeks or more complaining about the most ridiculous things possible.

If you instead put that time into doing what is required to get into med school you'd get a lot farther to your goals. Complaining about everything in life doesn't get people anywhere.

As someone said already, no one likes the MCAT but its a fact of the admissions process.

The MCAT's validity lies in the fact that it acts as an equalizer because not all grading scales or classes are of the same level of difficulty.

Within one school, one professor teaching a class might have made it very easy to get an A while another professor may be very difficult. One professor might use memorization while another may use a more analytical approach to their questions and style it more like the MCAT. We had a cell bio professor that used to do that. Someone at Cornell who was in Tampa for the summer once told an old friend of mine that their questions at Cornell were similar to MCAT style of asking questions.

One major may be more difficult then another, one grading scale may be more difficult then another. Or on a college a vs. college b level, a college where most people getting in may have avg scores of 1500 SAT scores on a 1600 scale may be tougher to compete in vs. a college where the averages are much lower for entrance and hence the competition not as tough nor possibly the classes.

Another thing, how does grading work? Are only the top 10% of the class afforded A's since the professor has said he'll give no more then the top 10% of people A's and the next 20% Bs and the next 40% c's and the remaining 20% Ds and last 10% Fs?

Or perhaps, the professor has set a set grading scale and so its possible for more then 10% to get As. Is the class small or large resulting in more or less competition.

These things can't be effectively compared quite easily and serve as one of the reasons for standardized exams.

Another reason for standardized exams....they are what best correlates with other standardized exams. In med school, Step 1 is often far more important then grades in obtaining good residencies. The MCAT is the closest thing they have that correlates to how well you will do while it is not perfect and there are many debates on this issue.

 

[Corpus Callosum]

And this is one of those debates, and not everyone who senses those discrepencies and engage themselves in this debate have issues. over and again, do not take offense, and remain calm, (again attitude) just present your ideas , and we would be glad to read it.
As for different schools with different standards please refer to my previous post where I elaborated on that extensively.
To summarize it for you, hard working students will be achievers and commited anywhere, despite the setting, just like a construction company that excels in building bridges, no matter where the construction site is, sounthern california, russia, or allaska, most likely they will construct it equally as well, yes it might take extra work to build it in alaska due to weather constraints and what not versus somewhere else where environment might be more favorable, but at the end of the day, the outcome is, more often than not, fairly the same.

Wow you have serious issues. When someone tells you to stop complaining and whining about all that is unjust that hardly is an indication of how they will treat a patient who is not educated in their diseases. I for one would never tell a patient to shut up and take something without doing their own research. In fact after realizing very painfully that I was diagnosed with something that may have resulted from a medication I was on for nearly 15 years of my life, and that had someone stopped that medication or taken my complaints seriously (my parents mostly) that I might not have been dealing with those certain health issues, I know first hand that I'd be the last person who would ever tell someone to shut up.

Since I have a PDR that was given free, these days I'm the first person to do proper research on any medication given to me and not take anything at face value.

however, I believe the situation with a patient doctor relationship and an ill person getting a treatment and telling your colleagues to stop arguing and whining about the unjust things in their life is not comparable.

You have spent the last few days if not last couple of weeks or more complaining about the most ridiculous things possible.

If you instead put that time into doing what is required to get into med school you'd get a lot farther to your goals. Complaining about everything in life doesn't get people anywhere.

As someone said already, no one likes the MCAT but its a fact of the admissions process.

The MCAT's validity lies in the fact that it acts as an equalizer because not all grading scales or classes are of the same level of difficulty.

Within one school, one professor teaching a class might have made it very easy to get an A while another professor may be very difficult. One professor might use memorization while another may use a more analytical approach to their questions and style it more like the MCAT. We had a cell bio professor that used to do that. Someone at Cornell who was in Tampa for the summer once told an old friend of mine that their questions at Cornell were similar to MCAT style of asking questions.

One major may be more difficult then another, one grading scale may be more difficult then another. Or on a college a vs. college b level, a college where most people getting in may have avg scores of 1500 SAT scores on a 1600 scale may be tougher to compete in vs. a college where the averages are much lower for entrance and hence the competition not as tough nor possibly the classes.

Another thing, how does grading work? Are only the top 10% of the class afforded A's since the professor has said he'll give no more then the top 10% of people A's and the next 20% Bs and the next 40% c's and the remaining 20% Ds and last 10% Fs?

Or perhaps, the professor has set a set grading scale and so its possible for more then 10% to get As. Is the class small or large resulting in more or less competition.

These things can't be effectively compared quite easily and serve as one of the reasons for standardized exams.

Another reason for standardized exams....they are what best correlates with other standardized exams. In med school, Step 1 is often far more important then grades in obtaining good residencies. The MCAT is the closest thing they have that correlates to how well you will do while it is not perfect and there are many debates on this issue.

 

[Corpus Callosum]

Ya unfortunately it is staying. Definitely I will pass, and looking forward to medical school, at least like you said, you are studying relevant topics

nah, a troll is someone who doesn't make sense. Corpus has some good points here and there, but the bottom point is that the MCAT is here to stay, regardless of it's imperfections. It's way too impractical to test for doctors in any other way. So you just have to buckle down for it, and hope you pass. Then you can forget about it and hope you do better on the USLME which has a more defined course subset and a "verbal portion" (Medical Ethics and Empathy) that's a bit more related to the medical profession.

 

[Jericho]

, but the verbal reasoning for instance, what patient is going to benefit from geology and rocks, I am just not seeing any connection there, totally pointless.


You've missed the point ENTIRELY here. It has nothing to do with the passages and their topics, it has everything to do with your ability to extrapolate new information. My verbal scores on the MCAT are quite high, but then again I have a degree in Journalism/Communications. The reason that is included on the MCAT is because back when my grandfather went to Medical School, med schools were graduating brilliant geeky doctors with hopeless communication skills. They would see their patients but couldn't really 'communicate' with their patients -- explain things -- discuss symptoms -- ask the right questions -- get the 'main idea' of their symptoms so to speak.

I took the MCAT and I hadn't had Biology since I was in high school -- 15 years ago, so please don't explain about learning something from scratch. I had to teach myself ALLL of the Biology on the mcat and it was a pain but it was an opportunity too, to learn something new, to study for a test and to know that at the very least, I have enough IQ to be able to do something like this.

I look at taking the MCAT as something amazing -- its hard, don't get me wrong, and I complained -- don't think I didn't -- but how many people out there aren't eating tonight and we get even the opportunity to take one the hardest exams written. It's a pretty cool thing.

Oh and before you 'dismiss' this because you don't think I'm educated enough for you: I have a B.A in Communications minors in Chemistry and Physics and a Masters in International Relations and I graduated with honors.

 

[Corpus Callosum]

I am very sorry to hear about the health issues you are encountering and hope that all gets resolved for the best. However I have some words I would like to adress, please digest them with patience and perception rather than critisism and anger.
It is not a very good idea to keep judjing people's ideas and badgering them, and I quote you, "You have spent the last few days if not last couple of weeks or more complaining about the most ridiculous things possible".and then go further to tell them what and what not to do "If you instead put that time into doing what is required to get into med school you'd get a lot farther to your goals. Complaining about everything in life doesn't get people anywhere". You don't know me. To say the least, I may be at a job unable to study, but have the luxury of typing and posting threads through the work computer, you cannot inteligently speak of the situation that I am conducting those posts from within, simply because you are not here, again analogous to a physician who insists the patient should take a drug when that patient is alergic to the exact same drug, and the doctor does not even know, just shoots orders.
I have been simply trying to calm you down in the few previous posts, and all I am asking you is to keep this discussion mature, objective, and ethical. I am starting to believe that there might be some merit in what that organic chemistry professor had told me after all, but remain hopefull to be proven wrong.

Wow you have serious issues. When someone tells you to stop complaining and whining about all that is unjust that hardly is an indication of how they will treat a patient who is not educated in their diseases. I for one would never tell a patient to shut up and take something without doing their own research. In fact after realizing very painfully that I was diagnosed with something that may have resulted from a medication I was on for nearly 15 years of my life, and that had someone stopped that medication or taken my complaints seriously (my parents mostly) that I might not have been dealing with those certain health issues, I know first hand that I'd be the last person who would ever tell someone to shut up.

Since I have a PDR that was given free, these days I'm the first person to do proper research on any medication given to me and not take anything at face value.

however, I believe the situation with a patient doctor relationship and an ill person getting a treatment and telling your colleagues to stop arguing and whining about the unjust things in their life is not comparable.

You have spent the last few days if not last couple of weeks or more complaining about the most ridiculous things possible.

If you instead put that time into doing what is required to get into med school you'd get a lot farther to your goals. Complaining about everything in life doesn't get people anywhere.

As someone said already, no one likes the MCAT but its a fact of the admissions process.

The MCAT's validity lies in the fact that it acts as an equalizer because not all grading scales or classes are of the same level of difficulty.

Within one school, one professor teaching a class might have made it very easy to get an A while another professor may be very difficult. One professor might use memorization while another may use a more analytical approach to their questions and style it more like the MCAT. We had a cell bio professor that used to do that. Someone at Cornell who was in Tampa for the summer once told an old friend of mine that their questions at Cornell were similar to MCAT style of asking questions.

One major may be more difficult then another, one grading scale may be more difficult then another. Or on a college a vs. college b level, a college where most people getting in may have avg scores of 1500 SAT scores on a 1600 scale may be tougher to compete in vs. a college where the averages are much lower for entrance and hence the competition not as tough nor possibly the classes.

Another thing, how does grading work? Are only the top 10% of the class afforded A's since the professor has said he'll give no more then the top 10% of people A's and the next 20% Bs and the next 40% c's and the remaining 20% Ds and last 10% Fs?

Or perhaps, the professor has set a set grading scale and so its possible for more then 10% to get As. Is the class small or large resulting in more or less competition.

These things can't be effectively compared quite easily and serve as one of the reasons for standardized exams.

Another reason for standardized exams....they are what best correlates with other standardized exams. In med school, Step 1 is often far more important then grades in obtaining good residencies. The MCAT is the closest thing they have that correlates to how well you will do while it is not perfect and there are many debates on this issue.

 

[littlealex]

Oh let us put this debate to an end.

"Anyone else find the MCAT to be ridiculously hard, or nearly impossible?" (okay so I fixed some wording)

Yes. Many people find it difficult. However, it is not impossible or ridiculously hard. MCAT tests you on very little material, and it is mostly a reasoning test.

If you think the MCAT is difficult, wait until you have to take the Step1. I've been working on my secondaries with a friend who's currently studying for the Step1, and wow, MCAT was easy.

 

[Corpus Callosum]

little alex,
I think you have been raising many critical and valuable ideas.
Thanks for fixing the wording.
But to state the mcat tests on "very little material" I find that hardly to be the case, if at all. There is an overwhelming amount of information that you need to not just know and practice, but also master in diverse areas ranging anywhere from what is absolutely critical like physiology for instance to what is certeainly irrelevant like evolution, verbal reasoning, and (organic chemistry, speaking of which we had lunch today with 2nd and 3rd year medical residents in the the school of medicince, michigan state university, and they stipulated that organic chemistry is useless and have "no practicality in medical schools and clinical applications") (their exact words)
I would be happy to discuss other issues, this need not be the only topic of choice, but is definitely a huge and deserving one of them.

Oh let us put this debate to an end.

"Anyone else find the MCAT to be ridiculously hard, or nearly impossible?" (okay so I fixed some wording)

Yes. Many people find it difficult. However, it is not impossible or ridiculously hard. MCAT tests you on very little material, and it is mostly a reasoning test.

If you think the MCAT is difficult, wait until you have to take the Step1. I've been working on my secondaries with a friend who's currently studying for the Step1, and wow, MCAT was easy.

 

[Corpus Callosum]

Any one taking the mcat in September,
What are your thoughts?

 

[gujuDoc]

little alex,
I think you have been raising many critical and valuable ideas.
Thanks for fixing the wording.
But to state the mcat tests on "very little material" I find that hardly to be the case, if at all. There is an overwhelming amount of information that you need to not just know and practice, but also master in diverse areas ranging anywhere from what is absolutely critical like physiology for instance to what is certeainly irrelevant like evolution, verbal reasoning, and (organic chemistry, speaking of which we had lunch today with 2nd and 3rd year medical residents in the the school of medicince, michigan state university, and they stipulated that organic chemistry is useless and have "no practicality in medical schools and clinical applications") (their exact words)
I would be happy to discuss other issues, this need not be the only topic of choice, but is definitely a huge and deserving one of them.

Believe me, I'm starting a grad program and saw the syllabus for my class. Compared to medical school the MCAT is very little material. Once you get to med school, you'll be wondering if the MCAT was really that bad. What you cover in 2 semesters in undergrad you cover in less then a few weeks in med school.

Where it will take 2 whole semesters to go through a whole biochemistry textbook in undergrad, my 5 credit biochem core course for my masters will cover all that material of 2 semesters plus some additional material in one semester. Med school is the same way.

And in terms of ochm, ochm is hardly the basis of the MCAT bio section any more then it is a part of medical school. In fact very few questions on my past MCAT experiences have dealt with ochm. The bit you have to study is nowhere near as hard as having to study for the actual lecture course in undergrad. i think you can manage to understand the basics and also what kind of materials are used in certain types of extractions you'll be fine.

I remember in 2005 when I took it, the majority of the ochm questions were dealing with the extraction type of questions and some stuff like H'NMR. I don't think that's tough stuff.

 

[gujuDoc]

I am very sorry to hear about the health issues you are encountering and hope that all gets resolved for the best. However I have some words I would like to adress, please digest them with patience and perception rather than critisism and anger.
It is not a very good idea to keep judjing people's ideas and badgering them, and I quote you, "You have spent the last few days if not last couple of weeks or more complaining about the most ridiculous things possible".and then go further to tell them what and what not to do "If you instead put that time into doing what is required to get into med school you'd get a lot farther to your goals. Complaining about everything in life doesn't get people anywhere". You don't know me. To say the least, I may be at a job unable to study, but have the luxury of typing and posting threads through the work computer, you cannot inteligently speak of the situation that I am conducting those posts from within, simply because you are not here, again analogous to a physician who insists the patient should take a drug when that patient is alergic to the exact same drug, and the doctor does not even know, just shoots orders.
I have been simply trying to calm you down in the few previous posts, and all I am asking you is to keep this discussion mature, objective, and ethical. I am starting to believe that there might be some merit in what that organic chemistry professor had told me after all, but remain hopefull to be proven wrong.

Well considering I'm not the only one who's telling you to calm down and just get to it, apparently it is not wrong of me. Secondly, most competent doctors don't give people drugs they are allergic to because they have to take a full medical history of the patient and ask what kind of allergies or past medications they've been on and so forth before they prescribe anything. so that example is irrelevant.

Any competent doctor would never tell someone to take something if the history in their hand shows an allergic reaction to a medication. They don't just start spewing off orders without some sort of history in front of them. People's actions on this thread are not indicative of their ability to work with others. It is indicative of their annoyance of the constant complaints of people because they don't like something about the medical school process.

 

[littlealex]

I think that verbal reasoning is hardly irrelevant. From a predictive perspective, it is the most important aspect of the MCAT, and the admission committees treat them accordingly. Many schools in California use a 2X Verbal + PS + BS formula for that specific reason.

Orgo really may be useless. I think knowing the basics of orgo does help give you a better understanding of molecular chemistry (predicting what will interact, what drug structures will interact, etc), but overall knowing detailed mechanisms and synthesis is rather pointless. Thankfully, the orgo that shows up on the MCAT is very rudimentary. Organic chemistry was by far my worst subject, and I find that I was still able to get most of the orgo quesitons with only a very basic understanding of the principles.

And I don't mean to say that the MCAT tests you on very little information. I know that's what I said, but I didn't mean it. The MCAT may seem overwhelming, but in comparison to the Step1, it is very very much easier.

I guess part of me feels that the questions on the MCAT only requires the very basic elements of each science. It does not test you on the mastery of the subject. It tests you on the mastery of the basics aspects of the subject.

And really, all 4 EK science review books together is thinner than a typical textbook for a class, and if you really learn them, you will do pretty well on the test (my sciences were a 14 and a 12 studying with just the EKs). That really is not too much to ask for considering you have an infinite amount of time to study.

 

[Corpus Callosum]

I am not sure if you had done the kaplan, berkely, AAMCC, AND cbt's (tests) when you were practicing, in case you did, how do you rate the real mcat to those? Some clues and hints are highly appreciated. Any one welcome to answer in addition to littlealex.

I think that verbal reasoning is hardly irrelevant. From a predictive perspective, it is the most important aspect of the MCAT, and the admission committees treat them accordingly. Many schools in California use a 2X Verbal + PS + BS formula for that specific reason.

Orgo really may be useless. I think knowing the basics of orgo does help give you a better understanding of molecular chemistry (predicting what will interact, what drug structures will interact, etc), but overall knowing detailed mechanisms and synthesis is rather pointless. Thankfully, the orgo that shows up on the MCAT is very rudimentary. Organic chemistry was by far my worst subject, and I find that I was still able to get most of the orgo quesitons with only a very basic understanding of the principles.

And I don't mean to say that the MCAT tests you on very little information. I know that's what I said, but I didn't mean it. The MCAT may seem overwhelming, but in comparison to the Step1, it is very very much easier.

I guess part of me feels that the questions on the MCAT only requires the very basic elements of each science. It does not test you on the mastery of the subject. It tests you on the mastery of the basics aspects of the subject.

And really, all 4 EK science review books together is thinner than a typical textbook for a class, and if you really learn them, you will do pretty well on the test (my sciences were a 14 and a 12 studying with just the EKs). That really is not too much to ask for considering you have an infinite amount of time to study.

 

[drizzt3117]

I am not sure if you had done the kaplan, berkely, AAMCC, AND cbt's (tests) when you were practicing, in case you did, how do you rate the real mcat to those? Some clues and hints are highly appreciated. Any one welcome to answer in addition to littlealex.

TBR exams are pretty similar to the actual MCAT. When I took the MCAT I had a passage that was almost word for word the same as one on the TBR practice tests (about heart volume) so that was nice.

My scores changed only 2 points from my first practice test ever (TBR I, before I'd taken many of the pre-reqs) to the actual exam, though. I scored about the same as the actual MCAT on all of the TBR tests (almost always exactly 39), and higher on AAMC and Kaplan (38-45). AAMC 3 and 4 are too easy and I don't advise using them as a guideline of how you'll do on the actual MCAT. I got every question right on both of those tests.

 

[littlealex]

I used the AAMC full length tests to prepare for my exam. I didn't have access to any of the other tests, and didn't have money to buy the books.

I scored almost exactly the same on every single AAMC tests, and scored that on my actual test. However, the real test FELT different.

The biology had slightly more reading comprehension then I thought. The verbal was very comparable, but the physical science felt incredibly difficult.

The biggest difference was that on the AAMC tests, much of the questions can be done w/o reading the passage, and I was accustomed to go straight to the questions, only scanning the passage as I see fit. On the actual test I was forced to read each passage, and finished the test with 2 min left on the clock (I usually finish early). I ended up doing very well on that section, but for a long time I thought I messed up.


If you're just interested in the practice tests' ability to predict your scores, I would say they are very good. While the questions may be easier/harder, you're still competing against other people. The harder the test, the more generous to curve.

 

[Corpus Callosum]

Do we really have to memorize the amino acids including name and structure for the mcat?
Different people are saying different things, kaplan book does not ask precisely to memorize them, would not say so if they think we should?

 

[drizzt3117]

Do we really have to memorize the amino acids including name and structure for the mcat?
Different people are saying different things, kaplan book does not ask precisely to memorize them, would not say so if they think we should?

I'd just understand the basic differences between the different general kinds of amino acids, and definitely know the exceptions. I had two specific questions about them on BS, but they were about cysteine and proline, which you should know about anyways.

 

[Corpus Callosum]

okay great thanks

I'd just understand the basic differences between the different general kinds of amino acids, and definitely know the exceptions. I had two specific questions about them on BS, but they were about cysteine and proline, which you should know about anyways.

 

[Corpus Callosum]

What do you guys think is the best way to practice for verbal reasoning?
I am strugling too much on this. I am noticing that my biggest weakness is the inability to recall the details from the passage, very minimal recall, and when I am asked about it, I have to go and dig in the passage and that is taking me a whole lot of time, I am never finishining VR in a timely manner,
scary when the mcat is sept 7, isin't?

 

[wcbcruzer]

It's just that you hear more about those who do well because they're so proud.

 

[Corpus Callosum]

What bothers me is that who do well, not only are they so proud, but they also try to reduce the wieght of this test, legitamice it and claim that it is easy, adding that the MCAT does not test lots of material, execuse me????
what test tests more material,. The amount of material on the MCAT is super overwhelming, there are subjects that cover 6 to seven classes in college if not more. I just realized that opinions about this tests are pretty biased, what sickens me more, is that I have encountered people on those threads, without naming names, that the MCAT have prevented them from going to MED schools, so they enrolled in other graduate programs, and guess what, they still speak favorably of this test, I think that is just to give us the impression of being smart...not be pal, although I have not taken this test before, but will never surrender to its efficacy and objective, if there is any

 

[Cytotoxic]

What bothers me is that who do well, not only are they so proud, but they also try to reduce the wieght of this test, legitamice it and claim that it is easy, adding that the MCAT does not test lots of material, execuse me????
what test tests more material,. The amount of material on the MCAT is super overwhelming, there are subjects that cover 6 to seven classes in college if not more. I just realized that opinions about this tests are pretty biased, what sickens me more, is that I have encountered people on those threads, without naming names, that the MCAT have prevented them from going to MED schools, so they enrolled in other graduate programs, and guess what, they still speak favorably of this test, I think that is just to give us the impression of being smart...not be pal, although I have not taken this test before, but will never surrender to its efficacy and objective, if there is any

You must not be familiar with Step 1...Anatomy, Biochem., Immunology/Microbiology, Pathology, Pharmacology, Physiology, Neuroscience, Nutrition/Genetics/Aging. All on a test you can't even retake unless you absolutely fail. THAT's overwhelming. The MCAT is a cakewalk compared to what's coming.

 

[Corpus Callosum]

You must not be familiar with Step 1...Anatomy, Biochem., Immunology/Microbiology, Pathology, Pharmacology, Physiology, Neuroscience, Nutrition/Genetics/Aging. All on a test you can't even retake unless you absolutely fail. THAT's overwhelming. The MCAT is a cakewalk compared to what's coming.

2 points:
1. first I meant an undergraduate based test that is JUST GETTING YOU IN to a graduate school.
2. notice that all teh subjects you counted are related to medicine, your carrer what u will be doing, not verbal unreasoning and OGRANIC CHEMISTRY, besides that is coming later down the road when all those areas should have been vigorously engrained into your dictionary having to go through them over and over again in medical school, in more depth and much more advanced. I just can't believe it when people start comparing the mcat to step 1 and otherwise, with all due respect to you, you are comparing apples and oranges, contrast does not stand here, they are two different tests for different purposes with different contents at different stages in your life.
More importantly, step 1 does not kick you from medical school but MCAT keeps you out, 70% of the admission process. Lots of very intelligent people are not becoming doctors because of the MCAT, not fair. by the way,This is not a personal reference, I have not taken the test yet, but an objective observation persuant to many people that I know about.

 

[swimfan]

Not true.. medicine is full of high-stress situations. Think about surgery.. you have to make decisions in a flash.

Regardless, no standardized test rewards pure memorization... if it did, we'd see a lot more people with higher scores. There has to be a way of separating those who purely memorize and those who can memorize and think critically. I think a doctor who is faced with an unfamiliar disease and can deduce things from it would benefit society more than a doctor who knows every possible disease in the world but can't do anything with newer information.

I personally think Verbal is crap.. but what can ya do about it... just do your best!

I think that the verbal is important because it takes pure reasoning ability. If you have less science background, but are very capable of critical analyzation and deductive reasoning, then you can really shine on the verbal. You have these abilities, even if your science knowledge is not deep enough for you to display this in the science section.

I am biased though. I score very well on the verbal, but I can't seem to break into a decent score on PS or BS. I recognize that this is my lack of knowledge on the subjects though, and I hope that with studying, studying, and more studying, I can improve.

Corpus---

I've heard countless people tell me keep at it! You CAN do well on this test. If you want it, it's doable. I'm not saying everybody can get a 45, but anybody with a reasonable background that really wants to go to medical school and is willng to put in the practice and studying time, can get competitive scores.

Good luck- don't give up. And don't let people get you down. There is a lot of negativity, but "not all pre-meds have 4.0/39 and opened an orphanage in somalia." to quote carolinagirl

 

[SigurRos]

The MCAT is the most valid and reliable test EVER... alive

 

[NRAI2001]

2 points:
1. first I meant an undergraduate based test that is JUST GETTING YOU IN to a graduate school.
2. notice that all teh subjects you counted are related to medicine, your carrer what u will be doing, not verbal unreasoning and OGRANIC CHEMISTRY, besides that is coming later down the road when all those areas should have been vigorously engrained into your dictionary having to go through them over and over again in medical school, in more depth and much more advanced. I just can't believe it when people start comparing the mcat to step 1 and otherwise, with all due respect to you, you are comparing apples and oranges, contrast does not stand here, they are two different tests for different purposes with different contents at different stages in your life.
More importantly, step 1 does not kick you from medical school but MCAT keeps you out, 70% of the admission process. Lots of very intelligent people are not becoming doctors because of the MCAT, not fair. by the way,This is not a personal reference, I have not taken the test yet, but an objective observation persuant to many people that I know about.

The mcat isnt a hard test..the material it tests is very little and it tests it at a very basic level. I think the test doesnt really reflect what will be learned in med school and what knowledge is vital to know before starting med school; basically it tests some random, slightly medically relevant material that med schools want you to learn and tests how well you can do this...but guess what that is what med school is about. There will be A LOT of material you will have to learn in med school that will seem like it has little clinical relevance, but u ll have to learn it anyway. So in that manner the MCAT is an exam that is reflective of med school.

A lot of the materials learned in physics(a lot surprisingly) , g chem (a lot of g chem comes up), bio (obviously), and o chem will have some relevance in med school.

Basically if you stop whinning and really just stop thinking about if the mcat is fair or not, you ll be less stressed out and it will seem easier.

P.S. Taking the MCAT Sept 11 (two weeks from now) and just started studying 3 days ago.

 

[NRAI2001]

2 points:
1. first I meant an undergraduate based test that is JUST GETTING YOU IN to a graduate school.
2. notice that all teh subjects you counted are related to medicine, your carrer what u will be doing, not verbal unreasoning and OGRANIC CHEMISTRY, besides that is coming later down the road when all those areas should have been vigorously engrained into your dictionary having to go through them over and over again in medical school, in more depth and much more advanced. I just can't believe it when people start comparing the mcat to step 1 and otherwise, with all due respect to you, you are comparing apples and oranges, contrast does not stand here, they are two different tests for different purposes with different contents at different stages in your life.
More importantly, step 1 does not kick you from medical school but MCAT keeps you out, 70% of the admission process. Lots of very intelligent people are not becoming doctors because of the MCAT, not fair. by the way,This is not a personal reference, I have not taken the test yet, but an objective observation persuant to many people that I know about.

Step 1 does determine your residency and can kick you out of consideration for certain ones. You re reasoning only works if you think that any residency will suffice as long as you get one and all med students do get some form of residency; but with that reasoning basically everyone who takes the mcat will get into med school, wether its US, Carribean or DO.

I ve studied USMLE board books...it is much much more than the mcat. Med school makes the mcat look like a joke...seriously.

 

[artaxerxes]

The mcat isnt a hard test..the material it tests is very little and it tests it at a very basic level. I think the test doesnt really reflect what will be learned in med school and what knowledge is vital to know before starting med school; basically it tests some random, slightly medically relevant material that med schools want you to learn and tests how well you can do this...but guess what that is what med school is about. There will be A LOT of material you will have to learn in med school that will seem like it has little clinical relevance, but u ll have to learn it anyway. So in that manner the MCAT is an exam that is reflective of med school.

A lot of the materials learned in physics(a lot surprisingly) , g chem (a lot of g chem comes up), bio (obviously), and o chem will have some relevance in med school.

Basically if you stop whinning and really just stop thinking about if the mcat is fair or not, you ll be less stressed out and it will seem easier.

P.S. Taking the MCAT Sept 11 (two weeks from now) and just started studying 3 days ago.

agreed, at most it is disadvantageous to people who aren't good at english, but then so is everyother entrance exam in the U.S. Otherwise it is quite fair and simplisitic. It doesn't try to trick you most of the time, and usually doesn't test the more esoteric facts out there. think of it like jepordey, the most obvious answer is usually the right one. Considering how thin MCAT prep books are (I can honestly say I've read the Bio-sci test prep book cover to cover in about 8 hrs, and reread it three-or four times and I could have memorized it, so about a week for a third of the info), and the recent reforms on reducing length and content, the MCAT is as about as simplified as it should get right now.

 

[BerkReviewTeach]

Huh... I just realized Corpus Callosum only has 20 posts. First 3 were starting threads complaining about the MCAT.

I think I fell for a troll...

So ashamed now.

*goes in a corner to cry*

No need to be ashamed... a good troll is always entertaining. And I think we all fell to some extent. I got a little suspicious based on the following quotes from aforementioned troller:

• 
  "I understand what you are saying, but I have verified with many sources that medical admission committees wieght more than 60% on the MCAT" (Post #8)
  “There is a very well known study that was done lately I think at harvard and NY Times had an article about it, that concluded the mcat does not predict how students do in medical school any better than 2%, the results were just devestating to the mcat people to an extent that they were trying to keep the research results from surfacing, now here is literature and true findings speaking, I thought we were science people and believed in numbers or not?” (Post #24)
  “… but MCAT keeps you out, 70% of the admission process.” (Post #81)

I always love when someone throws out stats with absolutely no reference and then changes them. Quite entertaining! I am surprised no one took him to task on the fact that the MCAT is between 30% and 50% at best, depending on the school.

Only one person took him to task on the article that doesn't exist. A simple archive search of the NY Times shows no such an article. But you have to love throwing out the conspiracy theory, because that would have lead to a great bunch of replies.

But even with the numbers being such a great trap, I have to vote the following two quotes as being the best as drawing people in:

• 
  “… what patient is going to benefit from geology and rocks, I am just not seeing any connection there, totally pointless.” (Post #16)
  
  “organic chemistry is useless and have "no practicality in medical schools and clinical applications" (Post #66)

Those are just wonderful prompts to suck people in. ANyone care to vote on which of the troll's posts was most compelling?

 

[artaxerxes]

What bothers me is that who do well, not only are they so proud, but they also try to reduce the wieght of this test, legitamice it and claim that it is easy, adding that the MCAT does not test lots of material, execuse me????
what test tests more material,. The amount of material on the MCAT is super overwhelming, there are subjects that cover 6 to seven classes in college if not more. I just realized that opinions about this tests are pretty biased, what sickens me more, is that I have encountered people on those threads, without naming names, that the MCAT have prevented them from going to MED schools, so they enrolled in other graduate programs, and guess what, they still speak favorably of this test, I think that is just to give us the impression of being smart...not be pal, although I have not taken this test before, but will never surrender to its efficacy and objective, if there is any

unfortuantely thats how I sometimes feel. Maybe I got an easy exam, but I felt jepped by how easy the BS and PS were, all that studying for this?! followed shorty by the fear, what if everyone got everything right?!!?!?!?!
those people that you mention realize the importance and significance of the test, and find the flaw of not getting acceptance within themselves rather than blaming the system, the kind of proactive people med schools want.

 

[NRAI2001]

No need to be ashamed... a good troll is always entertaining. And I think we all fell to some extent. I got a little suspicious based on the following quotes from aforementioned troller:

• 
  "I understand what you are saying, but I have verified with many sources that medical admission committees wieght more than 60% on the MCAT" (Post #8)
  “There is a very well known study that was done lately I think at harvard and NY Times had an article about it, that concluded the mcat does not predict how students do in medical school any better than 2%, the results were just devestating to the mcat people to an extent that they were trying to keep the research results from surfacing, now here is literature and true findings speaking, I thought we were science people and believed in numbers or not?” (Post #24)
  “… but MCAT keeps you out, 70% of the admission process.” (Post #81)

I always love when someone throws out stats with absolutely no reference and then changes them. Quite entertaining! I am surprised no one took him to task on the fact that the MCAT is between 30% and 50% at best, depending on the school.

Only one person took him to task on the article that doesn't exist. A simple archive search of the NY Times shows no such an article. But you have to love throwing out the conspiracy theory, because that would have lead to a great bunch of replies.

But even with the numbers being such a great trap, I have to vote the following two quotes as being the best as drawing people in:

• 
  “… what patient is going to benefit from geology and rocks, I am just not seeing any connection there, totally pointless.” (Post #16)
  
  “organic chemistry is useless and have "no practicality in medical schools and clinical applications" (Post #66)

Those are just wonderful prompts to suck people in. ANyone care to vote on which of the troll's posts was most compelling?

I dont think hes a troll....hes repeating a lot of the same whinny self-entitled stuff you hear a lot from pre meds.

 

[BerkReviewTeach]

I dont think hes a troll....hes repeating a lot of the same whinny self-entitled stuff you hear a lot from pre meds.

While some of his/her comments are on par with a small, but outspoken portion of premeds, (s)he stands out in some ways that just make him/her seem like a troll.

• 
  1. He gave us a list of degrees in a first post, which is not typical.
  
  2. He gave a mailing address of a school where he is supposedly a flight instructor and then talks about research and talking to medical students at a school at a place about two hours away (in good weather).
  
  3. He quotes numbers that just are even close to realistic.
  
  4. He gives his credentials (degrees, GPAs, who he works for, etc...) a little more than the average ranting poster.
  
  5. He talks about an example of working a place for five years and having a manager ask him to take a test. Would a premed think of a manager at a five-year job as the first example of a comparison to taking the MCAT?"

You might be right that he's just venting, but this just smells of trollness to me. Then again, look at how much time I wasted reading through it, so count me as being had.

 

[artaxerxes]

While some of his/her comments are on par with a small, but outspoken portion of premeds, (s)he stands out in some ways that just make him/her seem like a troll.

• 1. He gave us a list of degrees in a first post, which is not typical.
  
  2. He gave a mailing address of a school where he is supposedly a flight instructor and then talks about research and talking to medical students at a school at a place about two hours away (in good weather).
  
  3. He quotes numbers that just are even close to realistic.
  
  4. He gives his credentials (degrees, GPAs, who he works for, etc...) a little more than the average ranting poster.
  
  5. He talks about an example of working a place for five years and having a manager ask him to take a test. Would a premed think of a manager at a five-year job as the first example of a comparison to taking the MCAT?"

You might be right that he's just venting, but this just smells of trollness to me. Then again, look at how much time I wasted reading through it, so count me as being had.

most trolls don't put some many words down in their sig and he looks the captain of something, which makes me think less troll

 

[Jman35]

Being smart at Podunk U is not anywhere the same as being smart at MIT, and you really have to have experienced both to be able to understand just the immense difference of the level of competition.

I've taken 29 credits of classes at a 4 year university near my house (4.0 there). Yes, there are tons of smart students there, but there were few enough that anyone who is remotely intelligent and tries very hard gets an A in the class, buoyant by the hundreds of others who just don't try hard enough. Compare that to a competitive college where the students have an average SAT score of 1500 and all study very hard, and you'll soon realize that the 3.5 from a top school deserves enormous respect.

I'm so glad you said this. And it's true, you really don't know until you experience it. I went to a very tough, top-10 level school. I also came in with 1500 SAT, 5s on like 9 different AP tests and thought I owned the world (stupid me). I took classes at community college during high school and classes at my state universities (csu). The level of competition is just...well...different. Thats not to say someone with a 4.0 from an "easier" school isnt smart. He or she is probably very smart, BUT, they were playing in a different field. And it's a shame that people from harder schools arent given any special treatment for their lower gpa. When for example my school graduates an average of ~3.2 (or lower im not really sure) from my major (mostly premeds)...but the average mcat score is well into the 30s....there is definitely a discrepancy. Personally, out of 10 people that I knew their scores were between 36 and 43....but their gpa was not similarly impressive...thats life i guess. Things just arent fair and we must all suck it up and do what we have to in order to get what we want.

 

[BerkReviewTeach]

most trolls don't put some many words down in their sig and he looks the captain of something, which makes me think less troll

Joined August 2007 yet knows that some of the people posting in this thread applied and did not get in. That's an awful lot of knowledge for a newbie.

 

[artaxerxes]

I'm so glad you said this. And it's true, you really don't know until you experience it. I went to a very tough, top-10 level school. I also came in with 1500 SAT, 5s on like 9 different AP tests and thought I owned the world (stupid me). I took classes at community college during high school and classes at my state universities (csu). The level of competition is just...well...different. Thats not to say someone with a 4.0 from an "easier" school isnt smart. He or she is probably very smart, BUT, they were playing in a different field. And it's a shame that people from harder schools arent given any special treatment for their lower gpa. When for example my school graduates an average of ~3.2 (or lower im not really sure) from my major (mostly premeds)...but the average mcat score is well into the 30s....there is definitely a discrepancy. Personally, out of 10 people that I knew their scores were between 36 and 43....but their gpa was not similarly impressive...thats life i guess. Things just arent fair and we must all suck it up and do what we have to in order to get what we want.

I really think the source of the GPA should be taken more into account as you've said. With that said, not all non-top tier schools are easy, which kinda makes for a pitfall with that scheme. I know BU for example practice some degree of grade deflation, and my school practice a bit of inflation (at least thats what I think). Taking all of this together, the MCAT should have even more weight than the GPA, whereas it currently does not. With two dozen or so tests a year, MCAT has become a better indicator of aptitude than ever....got sick this time? well take it again in a few months rather than wait until next year.

A question to rest of you, did you feel that your MCAT science sections were typically harder than your undergrad science tests?
I felt BS was somewhat easier than most of my bio tests, and the orgo on it was much much easier than my past orgo exams.
PS chemistry was a bit easier, and physics was much easier.

 

[Jman35]

I really think the source of the GPA should be taken more into account as you've said. With that said, not all non-top tier schools are easy, which kinda makes for a pitfall with that scheme. I know BU for example practice some degree of grade deflation, and my school practice a bit of inflation (at least thats what I think). Taking all of this together, the MCAT should have even more weight than the GPA, whereas it currently does not. With two dozen or so tests a year, MCAT has become a better indicator of aptitude than ever....got sick this time? well take it again in a few months rather than wait until next year.

A question to rest of you, did you feel that your MCAT science sections were typically harder than your undergrad science tests?
I felt BS was somewhat easier than most of my bio tests, and the orgo on it was much much easier than my past orgo exams.
PS chemistry was a bit easier, and physics was much easier.

Hell yes the mcat questions are easier than my tests (well not the Verbal since its not tested that way). Mcat is harder since it requires you to read and comprehend the material right away...which is an important skill. My high school ap bio, ap physics, and ap chem classes were actually VERY similar to the mcat style of questions.

I think they should figure out a way to normalize gpa across the board. One way would be to get the average ug gpa for a particular major at the school, then get the average mcat score and use a formula to normalize gpa according to the gpa. For example if your school averages 35 on the mcat, but the average gpa is 3.0....something is up, so the 3.0 is worth more. There are many problems with this however. What about nontrads, or those taking the mcat a different year, or what if you are the only premed in your major...who do you get compared to?...etc

 

[Corpus Callosum]

The mcat isnt a hard test..the material it tests is very little and it tests it at a very basic level. I think the test doesnt really reflect what will be learned in med school and what knowledge is vital to know before starting med school; basically it tests some random, slightly medically relevant material that med schools want you to learn and tests how well you can do this...but guess what that is what med school is about. There will be A LOT of material you will have to learn in med school that will seem like it has little clinical relevance, but u ll have to learn it anyway. So in that manner the MCAT is an exam that is reflective of med school.

A lot of the materials learned in physics(a lot surprisingly) , g chem (a lot of g chem comes up), bio (obviously), and o chem will have some relevance in med school.

Basically if you stop whinning and really just stop thinking about if the mcat is fair or not, you ll be less stressed out and it will seem easier.

P.S. Taking the MCAT Sept 11 (two weeks from now) and just started studying 3 days ago.

what 3 days ago!!!!! I have been studying for 5 straight months. I am in prison in my room, inmates have freedom more than I do. Hate my life now, and quess what is the most difficult part, studying what I do not like (organic chemistry, ver unr passages, and g chem)

 

[Corpus Callosum]

While some of his/her comments are on par with a small, but outspoken portion of premeds, (s)he stands out in some ways that just make him/her seem like a troll.

• 1. He gave us a list of degrees in a first post, which is not typical.
  
  2. He gave a mailing address of a school where he is supposedly a flight instructor and then talks about research and talking to medical students at a school at a place about two hours away (in good weather).
  
  3. He quotes numbers that just are even close to realistic.
  
  4. He gives his credentials (degrees, GPAs, who he works for, etc...) a little more than the average ranting poster.
  
  5. He talks about an example of working a place for five years and having a manager ask him to take a test. Would a premed think of a manager at a five-year job as the first example of a comparison to taking the MCAT?"

You might be right that he's just venting, but this just smells of trollness to me. Then again, look at how much time I wasted reading through it, so count me as being had.

You are one suspecious person, but a reasonable scientific one does not start throwing accusations lacking support and evidence, needless to say totally ignorant of the circumstances surrounding those accusations. Let me respond to each point you mentioned and then prospective readers can decide between us who is a troll.
1. Not typical, maybe. But accusing me of lying as to what degrees I have is totally presumptuous, and illiterate, you don't know me and to make such assumptions points to either one of two things, annoyed from someones else's accomplishments since you lack it (maybe, jelousy)and trying to put them down by any means possible, or jobless, bored and having nothing better to do than sit and criticize people aimlessly. By the way, to add to your misery I did not even count all the degrees I have, there is more, but contrary to what you said, I do not brag, and I don't see an exception to that now.
2. I was a flight instructor at the school that I mentioned, not currently becasue I took time off to study. As for the school I spoke to students at, this is Kalamazoo Center for medical studies associated with michigan state university, and it is here in kalamazoo (not lansing), the same place where my school is:
web: http://www.kcms.msu.edu/.
This is where I am working on my thesis project, and KSMC is where med school graduates from MICHIGAN STATE are condunting their residencies. And if you had done your research appropriately and collectively as you always CLAIM, you would not have missed it, but I quess you were rushing to insult and judgement.
3. I have not thrown out numbers, I read the article and I reported exactly what I read, maybe you could not find it or maybe it is not there anymore, or MCAT people did not want people like you who have their mind fixated in a single direction, to see it. but according to you the only viable explanation is that I am making up numbers!!! Stop, too immature.
4. I have never bragged about my numbers and credentials except when I am trying to respond or support a claim put forth by others, I am proud of my accoplishments but do not BRAG, what I have is for me, if I were bragging all those years, I would not have been where I am now.
5. the example was meant to illustrate similar hard work for years and then being fully evaluated on your performance on a single day.
...........................
You may have wasted time going through my threads indeed, that I won't dispute, because you did not bother to weigh and evaluate all those concucted senarios before starting to accuse others of plagiarizing.
People like you , more often than not, I ignore, I don't let them PUT ME DOWN. However this will be my only and last response to you to clarify those allegded yet tenuous accusations for other readers.
Please stop wasting my time and find something more productive to do. Not sure whether you are a medical student or not, but it is scary for me to see someone who thinks immaturely and rushes to judgments, ever becoming a doctor.

 

[RoadRunner17]

I thought this guy made a post a few weeks ago saying that he gave up studying for the MCAT... and now he's back with his uniquely poor grammar and sentence structure. Why do you guys keep responding to him? Four things...

1) This guy likes to argue for the sake of arguing. You won't get anywhere with this guy and his "99% of statistics are made up on the spot" arguments.

2) His posts hurt my eyes. The blue text along with the lack of punctuation and run-on sentences also hurt my brain. So I refuse to read any more of his posts.

3) He's pretty defensive in response to BRT's post. That should tell you all you need to know.

4) The guy needs to STUDY for the MCAT instead of posting on SDN, do him a favor and don't spend the time to respond anymore than we already have.

 

[Corpus Callosum]

I thought this guy made a post a few weeks ago saying that he gave up studying for the MCAT... and now he's back with his uniquely poor grammar and sentence structure. Why do you guys keep responding to him? Four things...

1) This guy likes to argue for the sake of arguing. You won't get anywhere with this guy and his "99% of statistics are made up on the spot" arguments.

2) His posts hurt my eyes. The blue text along with the lack of punctuation and run-on sentences also hurt my brain. So I refuse to read any more of his posts.

3) He's pretty defensive in response to BRT's post. That should tell you all you need to know.

4) The guy needs to STUDY for the MCAT instead of posting on SDN, do him a favor and don't spend the time to respond anymore than we already have.

now that I will definitely not waste time responding to. Let me just say that I am stunned by the attitude of some of the pre-med students, MY ORGANIC CHEMISTRY PROFFESOR WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG (WORST ATTITUDE OF ALL, some not all)
Road runner, Don't read, will hurt your eyes,

 

[Corpus Callosum]

I think that the verbal is important because it takes pure reasoning ability. If you have less science background, but are very capable of critical analyzation and deductive reasoning, then you can really shine on the verbal. You have these abilities, even if your science knowledge is not deep enough for you to display this in the science section.

I am biased though. I score very well on the verbal, but I can't seem to break into a decent score on PS or BS. I recognize that this is my lack of knowledge on the subjects though, and I hope that with studying, studying, and more studying, I can improve.

Corpus---

I've heard countless people tell me keep at it! You CAN do well on this test. If you want it, it's doable. I'm not saying everybody can get a 45, but anybody with a reasonable background that really wants to go to medical school and is willng to put in the practice and studying time, can get competitive scores.

Good luck- don't give up. And don't let people get you down. There is a lot of negativity, but "not all pre-meds have 4.0/39 and opened an orphanage in somalia." to quote carolinagirl

now to the good guys
Swimfan,
Thanks for the advice, appreciate it, that is exactly what I am doing. My story is different, I am scoring very well on sciences but too poor on verbal, I really don't know whether I will ever get better on verbal,, been practicing for a long time. I agree with you, but even if I do well on the mcat, that will not change my oppinion about this test, and the flaws it and the whole process carries within.