Any opinions on the competitiveness of anesthesia after the new charting outcomes has been released?

[Step2myLou]

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In terms of percent matching, Anesthesia has a lower unmatched rate than FM. Would love to hear any thoughts about why this may be?

 

[AdmiralChz]

Before someone chimes in with “ANESTHESIOLOGY IS DYING AND BLOWZ” or something ridiculous... “Unmatched rate” is a very poor measure of how competitive a specialty is. For US medical students, if they aren’t getting any interviews / have a weak application they are steered towards a backup specialty which lowers the “unmatched” numbers. The same is true of DOs and IMGs.

A better measure is looking at Step 1 and Step 2 scores - which don’t appear to have changed substantially in several years (the same is true for most specialties, except Radiology which at last glance had a significant downward trend).

I have always thought that Anesthesiology has a bi-modal trend for applicants and programs - brand name academic places (“University of X”) tend to have higher cutoffs and have significant competition to get into. There are a growing number of community-based programs who are accepting applicants with lower stats and more marginal application. We will never see the exact numbers, but it would be interesting to see true charting outcomes for individual anesthesiology programs.

 

[Man o War]

Before someone chimes in with “ANESTHESIOLOGY IS DYING AND BLOWZ” or something ridiculous... “Unmatched rate” is a very poor measure of how competitive a specialty is. For US medical students, if they aren’t getting any interviews / have a weak application they are steered towards a backup specialty which lowers the “unmatched” numbers. The same is true of DOs and IMGs.

A better measure is looking at Step 1 and Step 2 scores - which don’t appear to have changed substantially in several years (the same is true for most specialties, except Radiology which at last glance had a significant downward trend).

I have always thought that Anesthesiology has a bi-modal trend for applicants and programs - brand name academic places (“University of X”) tend to have higher cutoffs and have significant competition to get into. There are a growing number of community-based programs who are accepting applicants with lower stats and more marginal application. We will never see the exact numbers, but it would be interesting to see true charting outcomes for individual anesthesiology programs.

I know some strong applicants who didn’t match this round. Research, high steps, good med schools. I agree with your thoughts here.

 

[Psai]

Before someone chimes in with “ANESTHESIOLOGY IS DYING AND BLOWZ” or something ridiculous... “Unmatched rate” is a very poor measure of how competitive a specialty is. For US medical students, if they aren’t getting any interviews / have a weak application they are steered towards a backup specialty which lowers the “unmatched” numbers. The same is true of DOs and IMGs.

A better measure is looking at Step 1 and Step 2 scores - which don’t appear to have changed substantially in several years (the same is true for most specialties, except Radiology which at last glance had a significant downward trend).

I have always thought that Anesthesiology has a bi-modal trend for applicants and programs - brand name academic places (“University of X”) tend to have higher cutoffs and have significant competition to get into. There are a growing number of community-based programs who are accepting applicants with lower stats and more marginal application. We will never see the exact numbers, but it would be interesting to see true charting outcomes for individual anesthesiology programs.

Agree. The people I interviewed with at the top programs were universally top notch. Brand name schools, research, 250s, interesting life story etc. Then there are programs that just want a warm body.

 

[dannyboy1]

I know some strong applicants who didn’t match this round. Research, high steps, good med schools. I agree with your thoughts here.

Did they only apply to top tier places?Anesthesiology as a whole is not competitive at all (i.e. you will match somewhere)
Last I checked an average USMD student with no research and average to slightly below average step scores had around a 92 percent chance of matching. And everyone from my class who wanted anesthesia matched easily.

 

[el_duderino]

We had a lot of people go anesthesia, and pretty much everyone matched at their #1, mostly at fairly competitive name brand programs. I came from what's considered a lower tier US MD school. I matched at my #1 despite being a pretty average student, though my #1 was a regional name that I ranked above several big national names.

 

[Man o War]

Did they only apply to top tier places?Anesthesiology as a whole is not competitive at all (i.e. you will match somewhere)
Last I checked an average USMD student with no research and average to slightly below average step scores had around a 92 percent chance of matching. And everyone from my class who wanted anesthesia matched easily.

Probably had a dumb match strategy, yes.

 

[flightnurse2MD]

Considering over 4K medical students didn’t match this year, I thank God and my allopathic credentials that I matched where I wanted to be....

 

[anbuitachi]

Considering over 4K medical students didn’t match this year, I thank God and my allopathic credentials that I matched where I wanted to be....

I wonder how many countries are like ours where they allow foreign grads to apply for residency spots...

 

[luCZky]

I wonder how many countries are like ours where they allow foreign grads to apply for residency spots...

the answer is something like... an every single one...

 

[BLADEMDA]

There will always be those students who are unrealistic, almost arrogant, about their match list. Instead of a realistic list, they only want a top 20 program. Everyone, and I mean everyone, needs 2-3 "safe" programs where a warm body will suffice. In the end, a Board Certified Anesthesiologist from a bottom tier program is a better place to end up vs manager of the local Burger King.

 

[anbuitachi]

Though I do occasionally hear some people say they'd rather not match, and reapply, than to match to somewhere they dont want to go to so that could be 1 reason

 

[BLADEMDA]

Though I do occasionally hear some people say they'd rather not match, and reapply, than to match to somewhere they dont want to go to so that could be 1 reason

Mistake. I'd rather see that person spend the year doing Critical Care then Cardiac vs sitting on his/her ass at the local Doc in the Box or Burger King.

 

[TheLoneWolf]

There will always be those students who are unrealistic, almost arrogant, about their match list. Instead of a realistic list, they only want a top 20 program. Everyone, and I mean everyone, needs 2-3 "safe" programs where a warm body will suffice. In the end, a Board Certified Anesthesiologist from a bottom tier program is a better place to end up vs manager of the local Burger King.

As a loyal burger king customer, I am slightly offended lol. I'm sure we have all met a resident or two who couldn't be trusted to do the most mundane of talks in or out of the ORs; let alone manage a BK chain. Inventory, unruly workers and customers. Come to think of it, many similarities, always putting out small fires and dealing with pissants.

 

[Adrenaline Junky]

the answer is something like... an every single one...

Please correct me if I am wrong but I recall reading that the US was the only country that allows IMGs and FMGs

 

[LunchMD]

Seems like competitiveness is about average based on step1/2 scores. Interestingly, the average # of programs ranked was 14.6! One of the highest out of all the specialties.

 

[nimbus]

Please correct me if I am wrong but I recall reading that the US was the only country that allows IMGs and FMGs

One of my old partners moved to France and practiced there until he retired. But he completed all his training here. Another guy I know did peds anesthesia fellowship in England after completing residency here.

 

[IMGASMD]

Please correct me if I am wrong but I recall reading that the US was the only country that allows IMGs and FMGs

Can’t you practice in Australia too? Maybe a year of observership?

 

[deleted171991]

Please correct me if I am wrong but I recall reading that the US was the only country that allows IMGs and FMGs

You are wrong. Many developed countries allow FMGs to enter residency, or even practice independently, after jumping through various hoops of various difficulties. And I am not talking about stuff like the EU, where the graduates from one EU country have their medical studies automatically recognized in all the others.

 

[Adrenaline Junky]

Can’t you practice in Australia too? Maybe a year of observership?

One of my old partners moved to France and practiced there until he retired. But he completed all his training here. Another guy I know did peds anesthesia fellowship in England after completing residency here.

I was referring to matching for residency. I was under the impression that the US is the only country that gives residencys to FMGs and IMGs

 

[Adrenaline Junky]

You are wrong. Many developed countries allow FMGs to enter residency, or even practice independently, after jumping through various hoops of various difficulties. And I am not talking about stuff like the EU, where the graduates from one EU country have their medical studies automatically recognized in all the others.

Oh, my mistake. Thank you for correcting me I appreciate it.

 

[deleted171991]

Oh, my mistake. Thank you for correcting me I appreciate it.

Where you are on to something is that (outside of the EU), we probably have the highest percentage of FMGs in the system. Until Eastern Europe joined the EU, and their docs were allowed to practice in the West basically overnight, we had probably the highest in the world.

 

[Adrenaline Junky]

Where you are on to something is that (outside of the EU), we probably have the highest percentage of FMGs in the system.

That is most likely what I read.

 

[nimbus]

UK has a very high percentage of foreign doctors including 45% of their cardiac surgeons.

“Peter Starkings, the director of Global Future, said: “The truth is immigrants do not put the NHS under strain, they are keeping it going. This research shows, that without continued immigration into the UK, the NHS will not be able to function in its current form.”

NHS faces Brexit staffing crisis unless visa caps lifted – report

 

[vector2]

UK has a very high percentage of foreign doctors including 45% of their cardiac surgeons.

“Peter Starkings, the director of Global Future, said: “The truth is immigrants do not put the NHS under strain, they are keeping it going. This research shows, that without continued immigration into the UK, the NHS will not be able to function in its current form.”

NHS faces Brexit staffing crisis unless visa caps lifted – report

My guess is CT surgery residency in the UK is ultracompetitive, takes 15 years to finish, and pays abysmally as an attending. Fix that and they'll probably get more native CT surgeons.

 

[Chip N Sawbones]

I think every single specialty had significantly fewer unfilled spots in the match than last year. Even the ones like pathology, radiology and psychiatry that have traditionally had room for anyone who wanted a spot nearly filled completely this time. In anesthesiology, even the brand-new programs filled completely. If I remember right, Buffalo was the only program that had more than one or two spots left. Anesthesiology is definitely getting more competitive, and programs can be choosy enough that they don't need to take any warm body that comes along. If they were, I'd be running around as a scared new intern today instead of hanging new kitchen cabinets in the foreclosed house I picked up when medicine didn't work out.