any point to having hope?

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swtcatastrophe

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hi all,

after 2 months of silence, i received my first rejection today from NYU, my top choice. i am obviously dejected and disappointed by this fact, considering that i thought i had a reasonable chance at both NYU and UMDNJ. i'm still pending review or under review at my 3 remaining schools. i'm not optimistic about stony brook as an out of stater or about columbia with my average stats.

should i keep hoping for an interview or is it better to start looking forward to the next application cycle? if i applied to a masters' program, should i delay reapplying to DS for a cycle? alternatively, should i just retake the DAT and reapply for Fall 2009 entry and find a job for a year? i'm looking for all sorts of advice, so i'd appreciate any feedback.

(see my predents' profile for my stats.)
 
swtcatastrophe said:
hi all,

after 2 months of silence, i received my first rejection today from NYU, my top choice. i am obviously dejected and disappointed by this fact, considering that i thought i had a reasonable chance at both NYU and UMDNJ. i'm still pending review or under review at my 3 remaining schools. i'm not optimistic about stony brook as an out of stater or about columbia with my average stats.

should i keep hoping for an interview or is it better to start looking forward to the next application cycle? if i applied to a masters' program, should i reapply for entry to DS in fall of 2010 instead of 2009 so that my application will potentially have improved? alternatively, should i just retake the DAT and reapply for Fall 2009 entry? i'm looking for all sorts of advice, so i'd appreciate any feedback.

(see my predents' profile for my stats.)
Click to expand...

You actually from Massachusetts Institute of Technology? 🙄
 
swtcatastrophe said:
hi all,

should i keep hoping for an interview or is it better to start looking forward to the next application cycle? if i applied to a masters' program, should i reapply for entry to DS in fall of 2010 instead of 2009 so that my application will potentially have improved? alternatively, should i just retake the DAT and reapply for Fall 2009 entry? i'm looking for all sorts of advice, so i'd appreciate any feedback.
(see my predents' profile for my stats.)
Click to expand...

1. get an M.S.
2. retake your DAT
3. reassess you chances
4. re apply
 
I am not saying that you wont get interviews, but just to be safe you should probably start prepping for next cycle.

There are many options. You can either choose to do a Master, formal/informal posbac and they will all help your chances. If you choose to do postbac, you should be able to pull up your GPA to around a 3.3-3.4 range given that you average an A- in all your postbac classes. I am saying its possible because though this is my first time applying, my GPA was actually lower than yours last year at this time and I was able to pull it to what it is right now.

If you choose to do a master, you will have the advantage of having a completely new grad GPA. So what you choose is up to you.

You should probably also retake the DAT as well. Try to have an insane DAT score so it would be able to offset your GPA. I would say aim for a 21+ just to be safe.

Good luck!
 
I don't see the point in getting a M.S. if you can just do really well on your DAT. Personally I think your lower GPA is offset by the fact that you go to MIT. If you have time now, just study your a** off and retake it in early Jan. or retake and reapply for next year. If so, get a job doing dental stuff...it looks great on your application and for interviews!
 
Jo07 said:
I don't see the point in getting a M.S. if you can just do really well on your DAT. Personally I think your lower GPA is offset by the fact that you go to MIT. If you have time now, just study your a** off and retake it in early Jan. or retake and reapply for next year. If so, get a job doing dental stuff...it looks great on your application and for interviews!
Click to expand...

Getting a degree from MIT and then doing dental stuff... that should impress adcoms.
 
doc toothache said:
Getting a degree from MIT and then doing dental stuff... that should impress adcoms.
Click to expand...

i feel like i've done a lot of different things to express interest in dentistry.
-200+ hours of shadowing and working in a dental office (summer 2005, summer 06)
-11 weeks of dental research at NYU
-Gateway to Dentistry at UMDNJ

what else should i do? full time job in a dental office? would i be able to be a dental assistant without a degree in that? should i just do more of what i have done? should i try to get a full time doing research or is that unrealistic without an MS?
 
swtcatastrophe said:
i feel like i've done a lot of different things to express interest in dentistry. full time job in a dental office? would i be able to be a dental assistant without a degree in that? should i just do more of what i have done? should i try to get a full time doing research or is that unrealistic without an MS?

-200+ hours of shadowing and working in a dental office (summer 2005, summer 06)
-11 weeks of dental research at NYU
-Gateway to Dentistry at UMDNJ
Click to expand...

Your DAT is what is keeping you back, most likely. If you need to reapply, make sure you score 20's and maybe do something dental related in your year off (maybe once a week on Saturdays if you want to work in a regular full time job.. you will probably be able to land a good job with your MIT degree). I would ask NYU why they decided to reject you and work from there, as well. You can also call the other schools now and ask them if there is anything you can do in the immediate future to make you more competitive. Good luck!
 
Get a 21 and apply to Pacific. You would be money. A 3.2 at MIT is like a 4.0 anywhere else. And at Pacific, they really dont mind relatively low GPA's.
 
If you really are from MIT, there's no reason you shouldn't make at least a 23-24 on the DAT. Go all out on it for a month. I guarantee.
 
yeah... i also think your DATs are also the issue...

an admissions director told me that they kind of use the DATs to gage things... like an A at one school could mean a lot and at another mean nothing because of grade inflation...

so if a person with a 4.0 and can't get 19s across the board what does that mean? maybe they didnt really earn those grades? maybe their school is just easier? or maybe... they had an off day... and should take it again.

So i mean... you GPA is respectable, and at a hard school, so if you pulled off a better DAT that can showcase your GPA... like show how much you did learn in your classes and stuff...
 
I think you could have gotten in if you'd applied to more schools. I mean A LOT more (perhaps 10-15 more). 4 schools is pretty risky with your stats. If I were you and you could only do one or the other (improve GPA or DAT), I'd opt for the DAT. Primarilly though, you need to apply to more schools.
 
SanOnofre2002 said:
I think you could have gotten in if you'd applied to more schools. I mean A LOT more (perhaps 10-15 more). 4 schools is pretty risky with your stats. If I were you and you could only do one or the other (improve GPA or DAT), I'd opt for the DAT. Primarilly though, you need to apply to more schools.
Click to expand...

Also, applying to Stony as an out of stater is like throwing away money...

Dont they take like 10 OOS per year?
 
jmick101 said:
Get a 21 and apply to Pacific. You would be money. A 3.2 at MIT is like a 4.0 anywhere else. And at Pacific, they really dont mind relatively low GPA's.
Click to expand...


swtcatastrophe said:
what else should i do? full time job in a dental office? would i be able to be a dental assistant without a degree in that? should i just do more of what i have done? should i try to get a full time doing research or is that unrealistic without an MS?
Click to expand...

Whether or not a "3.2 at MIT is like 4.0 anywhere else" may be debatable. What is not debatable is that DAT bio scores of 17 certainly did not complement either the quality of bio education you received at MIT nor the bio major. It does appear that too much hope was placed on the MIT education carrying you forward. Based on the results you have received it seems that the adcoms were equally unimpressed. With 3 points below the mean of 22.16 for Columbia and 2000+ applicants chances appear to be pretty slim. As it has been suggested, without additional post graduate courses to boost your gpa your only recourse is to score high on the DAT. Getting a full time job in a dental office would be somewhat of a waste. If you are in a large metropolitan area with a large university, ds, medical or allied health program and if a graduate degree is out of the question, then look for a position commensurate with your degree.
 
swtcatastrophe said:
hi all,

after 2 months of silence, i received my first rejection today from NYU, my top choice. i am obviously dejected and disappointed by this fact, considering that i thought i had a reasonable chance at both NYU and UMDNJ. i'm still pending review or under review at my 3 remaining schools. i'm not optimistic about stony brook as an out of stater or about columbia with my average stats.

should i keep hoping for an interview or is it better to start looking forward to the next application cycle? if i applied to a masters' program, should i delay reapplying to DS for a cycle? alternatively, should i just retake the DAT and reapply for Fall 2009 entry and find a job for a year? i'm looking for all sorts of advice, so i'd appreciate any feedback.

(see my predents' profile for my stats.)
Click to expand...

If--and I am saying if, here, because you don't know what will happen--you do not get any acceptances this cycle I would advise call up the admissions office and see what they are having problems with. My feeling is that if you talk to all of them, you will very likely get a consensus idea of where your application is weak at. With that knowledge, then work towards remedying that area and apply next year. I do agree with most of the posters above that your DAT score is the main culprit.
 
Swtcatastrophe,
I think with your stats you may have a chance but you seriously shortchanged yourself with only 4 or 5 schools. Nowadays 10 to 15 schools is the norm. It is not a sign of desperation to apply to that many. Your GPA is fine but could be better if you don't get in this cycle try to take more upper level science courses to boost your undergrad GPA. A lot of schools have average GPA around 3.5 for enrollees. Masters program at this point may be a drastic step. Next year if you don't hear anything for this cycle apply to more schools. Also retake the DAT. My advice more science courses to boost GPA and retake the DAT.

Statistically your GPA or overall DAT score don't standout. A lot of people who have weaknesses in one or the other make it up with something else.Ex: Weak GPA with exceptional DAT or weak DAT with strong GPA.
 
Honestly, I dont think it's your DAT score so much as the schools you applied to with your DAT scores. I got in, and I only have an 18 AA. You need to apply to 12+ schools.
 
airsimon said:
Honestly, I dont think it's your DAT score so much as the schools you applied to with your DAT scores. I got in, and I only have an 18 AA. You need to apply to 12+ schools.
Click to expand...
where did you get in?
 
nevermind saw it on predents...oops too bad I have already been rejected from there 🙁 ...you gave me hope for couple of seconds though🙂
 
op, as others have said, i think you should have applied to more than 4 schools...with your stats, columbia and stony are a bit out of reach...do you think it would be too late to add a couple of schools this late in the game? you never know...
 
first off, i'd like to say thank you to everyone who's taken the time to respond. i called NYU today and they couldn't tell me anything specific but said that they were looking for 19-20 in both AA/TS and for at least a 3.2. i do intend on retaking the DATs and applying much earlier than i did this year. i am trying to remain optimistic about UMDNJ at the very least. hopefully i will hear from them soon.

litldime said:
op, as others have said, i think you should have applied to more than 4 schools...with your stats, columbia and stony are a bit out of reach...do you think it would be too late to add a couple of schools this late in the game? you never know...
Click to expand...

i think it's probably too late at this point. i've also said in other threads that i have a high preference to being in the nyc area, which is why i only applied to those four. as a reapplicant, i would have the same personal constraints.

--

to respond to the remarks about the bio major and my low score--

frankly i was surprised i scored so low also; i do agree that my bio score is weak as a bio major, but i don't believe that's a reflection of the strength of the biology department here. i'd also like to state that i have never received an A in my major but still consider myself a very strong biology student.

just two days before on a practice exam i had done better in that section (19), orgo (23), and QR (24). i don't know what happened on test day. i know part of it had to do with one question asking me about a protocol i'd never heard of--until this term when i took cell bio--and other equally surprising questions. i had only studied with kaplan and i didn't feel that i was asked questions about what i knew or was recommended i know. after reading SDN in the last month, i realize kaplan isn't sufficient. a lot of the DAT material is very reminiscent of AP Bio material--why people are always recommending schaum's, cliff's and campbell. i hadn't covered that type of material since junior year of high school, when i knew it quite well and received a 5 on the exam. the bio major here is challenging and really helps you learn how to think more analytically and in a problem solving fashion. it does however deal with the world on a much more molecular level, which isn't the macro picture that the DAT tests on. i'm sure a lot of other schools are like that as well.
 
My GPA is not much higher than yours and I got into places, so don't lose hope. I see you submitted on August 30th, that's a little late. My best advice would be to apply earlier next year--like, in June--and apply to more schools. Furthermore, take at least a month off to study and then retake the DAT (so you get 20's). You got the extracurricular side down, just make sure your personal statement and letters of rec are solid and you should be okay, even with NYU.
 
jigabodo said:
Also, applying to Stony as an out of stater is like throwing away money...

Dont they take like 10 OOS per year?
Click to expand...

who knows? dental schools continue to baffle me. i just got a call from patricia, so stony brook is officially my first interview!!!
 
wigglytooth said:
Your DAT is what is keeping you back, most likely. If you need to reapply, make sure you score 20's and maybe do something dental related in your year off (maybe once a week on Saturdays if you want to work in a regular full time job.. you will probably be able to land a good job with your MIT degree). I would ask NYU why they decided to reject you and work from there, as well. You can also call the other schools now and ask them if there is anything you can do in the immediate future to make you more competitive. Good luck![/quote]

will they really tell you though? if you call a school that you're under review for and say i didnt get an itnerview yet what can i do to make myself for compettive for the rest of the cycle? is the secretary that answers the phone really gonna tell me or is she gonna think i'm trying to sweet talk my way into something?
Click to expand...
 
swtcatastrophe said:
who knows? dental schools continue to baffle me. i just got a call from patricia, so stony brook is officially my first interview!!!
Click to expand...

Congratulations!!!!! Just take what everybody says in this thread as a backup plan in case things don't work out. A state school is a huge bonus.👍
 
i'm not sure why i'm bumping this thread. either for reassurance that things may still turn out alright or for a push from you guys to start studying for an early June DAT retake and prepping for next cycle.

no word from stony--we've probably all read the thread that they are overbooked. silence from both umdnj and columbia--even though i was told i should be hearing something from UMNDJ in early january by an admissions officer.

someone recommended that i take more upper level bio courses. how do you do that with a b.s. in biology without doing a post bacc? could i just enroll in an immunology course, for ex, somewhere? would it be better to take the courses at a CC or at another 4 year institution, like nyu? i hope to be working at least part time in this potential year off, also. i will be in the nyc area as i've said before.

any advice would be much appreciated. i feel pretty hopeless about this year, probably rightfully so.
 
fireblast713 said:
Stony Brook is already overbooked, so they won't be handing out any more acceptances jfyi
Click to expand...

i know. that quote of mine is from the first post in this thread which was over a month ago. in my recent post from a few hours ago, i acknowledge that SB is overbooked, just to be clear.
 
I imagine you'll get in somewhere next cycle, you just didn't apply to enough schools (meaning you probably would have been accepted to some other schools). Probably too late now, though. I wouldn't retake the DAT, but maybe take a few classes to bump up your GPA. Honestly, though, I thought the MIT thing would have made GPA less of an issue.
 
i would probably just do a DAT retake and a few science post bacc courses as well, to show you have been busy in your time off between cycles. IMO it is def your DAT that is holding you back since you come from a great institution but have below average GPA.
 
The moral of the story here are the numbers. I don't think they are going to put that much weigh on school since they are getting flooded with applicants. They probably just look at the numbers (GPA and DAT).
 
Really sorry to hear. I guess prepare to apply for another year. I'd say don't do a masters, but rather, nail the friggin' DAT like get 23 across. Then this next time around, apply to 10+ schools. You should get in somewhere.
 
musl85 said:
i would probably just do a DAT retake and a few science post bacc courses as well, to show you have been busy in your time off between cycles. IMO it is def your DAT that is holding you back since you come from a great institution but have below average GPA.
Click to expand...

if i won't be able to take post bacc courses until next fall--no summer classes--will that be too late? for ex, this year's fall grades just got updated to AADSAS today. i think it would be too late to make a difference at all. again, does taking the post bacc classes at a 4 yr institution or a CC make a difference? this term i am taking 3 science classes--chem lab, principles of human disease, and a science writing class--and one non-science seminar that is offered as P/F. is this my last opportunity to raise my sci GPA for the 2009 cycle if i'm not taking summer courses?
 
How long did you study for the DAT?
 
heatwheat said:
How long did you study for the DAT?
Click to expand...

i took a kaplan DAT class last january but didn't really study once the semester started in february because of time limitations. then i studied for about a month once school got out, from memorial day to the end of june. i averaged 1-2 practice tests per week, all from kaplan. it was hard since i was also volunteering full time at NYUCD. i'm sure other people do it but in retrospect, that may be why some sections suffered in my case. this semester i'm going to treat it like it's my 4th class and make sure i study at least 2-3 hours a day for it the entire term. i bought topscore pro and achiever in november when i thought i might be retaking the DAT in january. i chose not to do that because i thought i was shortchanging myself on time again. i also acquired Campbell's and AP Cliff's from a friend, and will be reviewing my AP Bio notes from high school. any other advice? would SAT math practice tests be good enough for extra QR practice?
 
swtcatastrophe said:
if i won't be able to take post bacc courses until next fall--no summer classes--will that be too late? for ex, this year's fall grades just got updated to AADSAS today. i think it would be too late to make a difference at all. again, does taking the post bacc classes at a 4 yr institution or a CC make a difference? this term i am taking 3 science classes--chem lab, principles of human disease, and a science writing class--and one non-science seminar that is offered as P/F. is this my last opportunity to raise my sci GPA for the 2009 cycle if i'm not taking summer courses?
Click to expand...

i would def take them at a 4 yr college. If you take some in fall i think you should be fine as long as you get A's and apply early enough. I really think you should put a lot of effort to boost your DAT since that is easier than boosting your GPA. Besides a lot of people with worse or similar GPA got accepted.

if you cant take anything over the summer, then this term is the last one that the schools will recieve grades for, prior to academic update. But like i said, IMO focus on the DAT 🙂
 
OP.. My advice would be to apply every cycle even if your application hasn't changed much because many schools will automatically give you points just for reapplying.
 
I think your GPA is good enough.

You just need to keep hoping that something happens for you this cycle and if not prepare to take the DAT again.

If you put enough effort in, you can definitely raise your DAT score at least 3 points which I'm sure is enough to get you in next year.

You were smart enough to get into MIT so I'm sure you are smart enough to get a 22 on the DAT if you give it 100% of your time and effort.
 
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