Any thoughts on competitiveness this year?

[darkmansaad]

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I know this has been beaten to death but I figure every year has new trends which could possibly be also signs of a general direction in the field. My AMG friends reported a good amount of interviews from decent programs however the American IMG's i rotate with/speak to said that indeed interviews are down even for the 99/99 applicant who from my non scientific survey had only between 3-5 IV's. Now maybe thats normal maybe its not, im not too sure so i figured id pose the question as I am applying next year and would like to know if the field is becoming more unfriendly to the American IMG applicant even with a good CV. Any thoughts especially from attendings or anyone involved in the process would be great to hear.

 

[fakin' the funk]

Every program I've asked at this season has said "We've NEVER had this many applications! We're swamped!" Of course we won't know until the NRMP statistics come out whether it's more applicants, better applicants, more applications per applicant, etc etc. But, applications are up, no doubt about it - which could lead to, or be the cause of, American or non-American IMG invites being down.

 

[frank51]

Also very few seem to be canceling their interviews as wait lists aren't really moving, one program coordinator said that this was really unusual.

 

[UTKB]

I think fakin's explanation is right. Last year, from reading the data, it seemed american grads were doing better at matching percentage wise, while american img's and foreign img's were doing worse. Probably has to do with more applications last year.

 

[Nuriko]

Also very few seem to be canceling their interviews as wait lists aren't really moving, one program coordinator said that this was really unusual.

Yeah, Ive noticed this too. Almost everywhere Ive called said that there hasnt been any waitlist movement. Thankfully, I have enough interviews to make a comfortable rank list, but it looks like I wont get that 1-2 more to seal the deal.

 

[lord_jeebus]

If you look at the NRMP data, from 2006 to 2008 there was a 40% increase in number of applicants a program had to rank to fill a spot. I think this indicates an increase in applications per applicant more than anything else, and would not be surprised if this trend is continuing this year. In other words, the applicant pool is not that much more competitive, but more cautious/paranoid and applying more widely.

 

[JonnyG]

If you look at the NRMP data, from 2006 to 2008 there was a 40% increase in number of applicants a program had to rank to fill a spot. I think this indicates an increase in applications per applicant more than anything else, and would not be surprised if this trend is continuing this year. In other words, the applicant pool is not that much more competitive, but more cautious/paranoid and applying more widely.

That would be my take too. I run into more and more stellar applicants doing 15 interviews just to be safe and very few people turning down interviews. THis hurts the borderline candidates most since they will not pick up the extra spots. Plus every PD i talked ot said they are not interviewing more candidates then last year they just have more applicants.

 

[amyl]

apps at my program are about the same as last year i think.... over 1000 applications for 20 spots. lots of good qualified applicants are probably being turned away 'cause there are only so many interview spots.
seems like more people are applying to more programs... i myself was guilty last year of applying to too many, but then hindsight is always 20/20. good luck guys!

 

[Colba55o]

I agree with what has already been said. People (myself included) are paranoid and going on way more interviews than they need to,

Ask any senior resident or young attending or even CA1 how many interviews they went on, would bet its much lower than most of us applying this year.

If it makes anyone feel better the number of people going into anes in my class is actually lower than last year with a slightly larger class overall.

 

[B79N31A28]

A chair from one of the top tier programs in California, said that they had over 700 applicants, they interviewed 150 of which 75 were AOA and the avg. step 1 score was 244.... blew my mind.

 

[titanjones]

anesthesia is getting more popular and thus more competitive each year. with that said many spots at the mid and low tier programs are filled with img's, so if ur a MD applicant u still have a good chance to match, if u broaden ur applications

 

[darkmansaad]

hey just had an abstract accepted for ATS 2009...its not "published" per se but does that mean I get to put it in my eras application? And is it worth putting in? Sorry for the many questions, im a carib img and really want to match in a competitive spot so trying to put myself in a good position for that........thanks for all your replies so far btw

 

[centig]

hey just had an abstract accepted for ATS 2009...its not "published" per se but does that mean I get to put it in my eras application? And is it worth putting in? Sorry for the many questions, im a carib img and really want to match in a competitive spot so trying to put myself in a good position for that........thanks for all your replies so far btw

Pretty sure you can't change that part of the ERAS application after you submit it. If you can, I'd like to know.

 

[RxBoy]

Pretty sure you can't change that part of the ERAS application after you submit it. If you can, I'd like to know.

This is very true. But what I did was create a hardcopy of an updated CV and give it to the PDs during interviews. You have to bring it up in convo because they'll never ask for it. They throw that CV in you file and will look at it come selection commitee time. Some people will say it will change nothing, I say it couldn't hurt.

 

[panetrain]

I'm a chief resident at a regionally competitive state university program (hidden jewel with the word getting out). We have 8 spots, received over 400 applicants, interviewed 75 with average scores in the high 220's. We did not interview any IMG's this year. I think IMG's will have a really hard time getting in this year and in years to come. The competitiveness of anesthesia will continue to increase for 4 or 5 more years, it's hard to say. Over the course of my 4 year residency I have seen this field become saturated in most of the desirable cities in the US and starting salaries in these cities decline. Cash cow ambulatory surgery centers are struggling due to the economy with less and less elective surgeries due to layoffs, fear of being fired, lost or reduced benefits etc....This will only get dramatically worse over the next couple of years and in-turn reduce anesthesia salaries and encourage the use of midlevel anesthesia providers (AA,CRNA's). Layoffs are exchanging private insurance for medicaid or uninsured and destroying payer mixes in many areas. Candy plastic surgery center gigs are drying up due to declining demand for expensive cosmetic surgery. Fewer anesthesiologists are retiring because the recently lost their entire nest egg when the market crashed. The word will spread of deteriorating salaries and job saturation to the medical schools in a few years and application numbers will fall. If your a pre-med or MS 1, I think you will have an easier time getting in but may change your mind for a better job outlook in some other field. For those of you who are doing it for the pure love of anesthesia, none of this should matter.

anesthesia is getting more popular and thus more competitive each year. with that said many spots at the mid and low tier programs are filled with img's, so if ur a MD applicant u still have a good chance to match, if u broaden ur applications

 

[RxBoy]

I'm a chief resident at a regionally competitive state university program (hidden jewel with the word getting out). We have 8 spots, received over 400 applicants, interviewed 75 with average scores in the high 220's. We did not interview any IMG's this year. I think IMG's will have a really hard time getting in this year and in years to come. The competitiveness of anesthesia will continue to increase for 4 or 5 more years, it's hard to say. Over the course of my 4 year residency I have seen this field become saturated in most of the desirable cities in the US and starting salaries in these cities decline. Cash cow ambulatory surgery centers are struggling due to the economy with less and less elective surgeries due to layoffs, fear of being fired, lost or reduced benefits etc....This will only get dramatically worse over the next couple of years and in-turn reduce anesthesia salaries and encourage the use of midlevel anesthesia providers (AA,CRNA's). Layoffs are exchanging private insurance for medicaid or uninsured and destroying payer mixes in many areas. Candy plastic surgery center gigs are drying up due to declining demand for expensive cosmetic surgery. Fewer anesthesiologists are retiring because the recently lost their entire nest egg when the market crashed. The word will spread of deteriorating salaries and job saturation to the medical schools in a few years and application numbers will fall. If your a pre-med or MS 1, I think you will have an easier time getting in but may change your mind for a better job outlook in some other field. For those of you who are doing it for the pure love of anesthesia, none of this should matter.

I have heard the same sediment from my Pain Attending. Cold dose of reality... But my question is.... What practice of Medicine will not be going downhill?

Plastics hit, Surgery hit, Specialty surgeries all taking hits (except maybe ortho), Derm (cosmetics) hit, Neuro's always been struggling, Radiology hit (lower salary with increasing workload), and don't even get me started on primary care.

On a relative basis, Anesthesia is still a very strong field.

 

[deleted126335]

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[Gern Blansten]

A chair from one of the top tier programs in California, said that they had over 700 applicants, they interviewed 150 of which 75 were AOA and the avg. step 1 score was 244.... blew my mind.

Programs have to keep in mind that all of those AOA candidates are also interviewing at many other places and will, mostlikely, be at the top of everyone's list. That is why, I think, some really strong programs end up getting a surprise scramble on match day. They are only ranking people that everyone else is also ranking. If you lose enough of those recruiting battles, you move down your program's rank list pretty fast. Especially if you are interviewing people from all over the country who may not have regional ties to help persuade them to come to your program. If you have a large program (say 15-20) and you are jumping 5 to 6 spots for each match, you will end up down the list fast. From the program director's view, you can never trust what an applicant tells you. From an applicant's view, you can never trust what a program tells you.🙂
Obviously, I am giving the perspective from the other side (the program's).