Anyone been on a GMT (Global Medical Training) Trip?

[patekpremed]

I am looking into going on a GMT trip this summer and wanted to get anyone's opinions/suggestions if they have gone through this organization before. Thanks.

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[docisin]

I heard about this trip recently from a friend who is a PA-S (Physician Assistant Student). She was telling me it was very rewarding. I am curious as well if anyone has gone and would like to read their thoughts or if they know any other place(s) like this?

I hope I am not to late in asking, but did you ever go patekpremed and if so did you enjoy yourself and what did you learn and get out of it?

 

[uclaussr]

Yes! I actually loved my first time so much that i ended up going on another one this year.
You get unbelievable hands on experience, much more than is allowed to pre-meds here in America. You basically play the role of a resident in a teaching hospital, work in groups of 3, with a translator, listen to the patient, diagnose, prescribe a treatment, then call over one of the real doctors, "attendings", to verify the diagnosis/treatment plan. You become an expert in tropical diseases, and problems seen in the States as well. You also learn a bunch aobut the culture of the people in whichever country you go to. Very eye-opening. Also, there is a good amount of fun-time involved .
Worth every penny.

 

[Perrotfish]

Does this sound like an ethics problem to anyone else? I mean if you're not qualified to do something hands on here you don't suddenly become qualified when you step off a plane...

 

[uclaussr]

Does this sound like an ethics problem to anyone else? I mean if you're not qualified to do something hands on here you don't suddenly become qualified when you step off a plane...

Perrotfish you needa stop being such a pansy. You don't physically cut anyone or perform surgery on the trip. They teach you enough knowledge at the training the 1st day to be able to diagnose the basic things. doctors show you how to palpate the body for enlarged spleen, etc. Believe it or not this is what medicine was like before MRI's, CT's, etc. Stop being so ignorant in your world views and calling an ethics debate, when this is perfectly acceptible. You don't need to be an expert to be able to put together the symptoms of ringworm, tapeworm, amoeba, etc..especially knowing the water sources these people obtain their water from.

Open your eyes. the rest of the world does not have MRIs.

 

[Perrotfish]

Perrotfish you needa stop being such a pansy. You don't physically cut anyone or perform surgery on the trip. They teach you enough knowledge at the training the 1st day to be able to diagnose the basic things. doctors show you how to palpate the body for enlarged spleen, etc. Believe it or not this is what medicine was like before MRI's, CT's, etc. Stop being so ignorant in your world views and calling an ethics debate, when this is perfectly acceptible. You don't need to be an expert to be able to put together the symptoms of ringworm, tapeworm, amoeba, etc..especially knowing the water sources these people obtain their water from.

Open your eyes. the rest of the world does not have MRIs.

Before MRIs docs still trained for close to a decade to be able to diagnose people. Having 3rd world equipment means you need more training, not less, and I honestly have no idea what 'basic things' they could teach you in a single day of classes. I worry that one of the locals will see your boundless premedical self confidence, combine that with the observation that you're an American in a white coat, and make the terrible mistake of taking your advice seriously rather than seeking out qualified medical help. I mean, hopefully the actual doctors are watching you but unless it's a 1-1 doc:student ratio it seems like there's a good chance you might diagnose someone when no one has the opportunity to correct you.

 

[SweetRain]

Perrotfish you needa stop being such a pansy. You don't physically cut anyone or perform surgery on the trip. They teach you enough knowledge at the training the 1st day to be able to diagnose the basic things. doctors show you how to palpate the body for enlarged spleen, etc. Believe it or not this is what medicine was like before MRI's, CT's, etc. Stop being so ignorant in your world views and calling an ethics debate, when this is perfectly acceptible. You don't need to be an expert to be able to put together the symptoms of ringworm, tapeworm, amoeba, etc..especially knowing the water sources these people obtain their water from.

Open your eyes. the rest of the world does not have MRIs.

Sounds like you need to take a chill pill

 

[qwerty89]

You diagnose the patient and then the local physician checks to make sure it is correct.

So no I don't believe there is any ethical issue.

 

[ThaliaNox]

I've always felt that trips where completely untrained (1 day is not training) students are allowed to diagnose ANYTHING are unethical. It wouldn't happen here in the US. You mention that you think you're working on the level of a resident. That's up to seven or more additional years of school after undergrad that you do not have. The OP also mentions becoming an "expert" in tropical diseases. No. My parasitology professor in medical school is an expert in tropical diseases.

Folks who think adcoms should be impressed when students get in way over their heads and risk the health of others are seriously deluded. You have no ability to tell the common cold from pneumonia, or one parasite from another if they aren't presented EXACTLY textbook.

 

[NickNaylor]

Sounds like you need to take a chill pill

You're right. We shouldn't worry about the outcomes of those third world people - there are so many of them.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

Perrotfish you needa stop being such a pansy. You don't physically cut anyone or perform surgery on the trip. They teach you enough knowledge at the training the 1st day to be able to diagnose the basic things. doctors show you how to palpate the body for enlarged spleen, etc. Believe it or not this is what medicine was like before MRI's, CT's, etc. Stop being so ignorant in your world views and calling an ethics debate, when this is perfectly acceptible. You don't need to be an expert to be able to put together the symptoms of ringworm, tapeworm, amoeba, etc..especially knowing the water sources these people obtain their water from.

Open your eyes. the rest of the world does not have MRIs.

It's not a matter of being a pansy or not. You can do a search to find some good threads regarding the ethics of overseas medical trips.

The problem is, you don't need just "basic" medical knowledge to recognize basic problems, you need the advanced knowledge to know that it's not something more advanced.

The point of pre-meds/undergrads being on these trips is for them to experience "personal growth," or pad their resumes, or what-not. They don't actually provide an essential service. I mean, if everything you need to know can be taught to you in a day, then the physicians could just teach villagers to assist.

 

[NickNaylor]

It's not a matter of being a pansy or not. You can do a search to find some good threads regarding the ethics of overseas medical trips.

The problem is, you don't need just "basic" medical knowledge to recognize basic problems, you need the advanced knowledge to know that it's not something more advanced.

The point of pre-meds/undergrads being on these trips is for them to experience "personal growth," or pad their resumes, or what-not. They don't actually provide an essential service. I mean, if everything you need to know can be taught to you in a day, then the physicians could just teach villagers to assist.

 

[kami333]

I don't think the trips are completely worthless to the "locals" since they can also serve as fund raising for the clinic/organization, the fees are usually around $100~200/day on top of airfare. It's like fund raising galas, though they might have to spend some time/money to provide the entertainment, they raise more since people are more willing to give if they have a good time.

 

[LizzyM]

I don't think the trips are completely worthless to the "locals" since they can also serve as fund raising for the clinic/organization, the fees are usually around $100~200/day on top of airfare. It's like fund raising galas, though they might have to spend some time/money to provide the entertainment, they raise more since people are more willing to give if they have a good time.

You are delusional if you think that the money goes to help the locals. More likely, a large proportion is going to pay the salaries of organizers here in the US. Are you suggesting that the locals provide the "entertainment" (their illnesses) and the rich American folks give more money??

I find it amusing that the pre-meds find little wrong with "diagnosing" after a one -day crash course in tropical diseases but will have a cow at the thought of anyone but a physician having that role in the US (e.g. nurse practioner, physician's assistant).

 

[Perrotfish]

I don't think the trips are completely worthless to the "locals" since they can also serve as fund raising for the clinic/organization, the fees are usually around $100~200/day on top of airfare. It's like fund raising galas, though they might have to spend some time/money to provide the entertainment, they raise more since people are more willing to give if they have a good time.

I see what you're saying, but like Lizzy said, the challenege is confirming that much (or any) of the donated $ actually goes to the locals, and to make sure that the docs that the $ is supporting are actually providing adequate care. Let me give two scenarios:

Good scenario: A group of physicians, either locally baseded or taking part in a long term placement program like Doctors without Borders, allow a small group US medical students to shadow and maybe even interview patients in exchange for a fee. The fee goes towards medicine, local improvements, and maybe a nominal salary for the physican. The locals still have a normal appointment time with a qualified physician who oversees there care over several years, and since the locals have been seeing the physician as their primary provider for awhile and see the medical students only once their is no confusion about who their provider is. Everyone here gets what they want: the (pre)medical student gets resume fodder and inspiration and the physicians and locals get the money to continue providing basic services.

Bad scenario: A group of physicians goes on short (1-2 week) 'mission' trips, and they charge a large fee to allow premeds to accompany them. There is a very large group of premeds. The company is for profit, and the fees provide nothing for the locals except for the nominal medical care they recieve from the physician on the trip. Because the physician is both sheparding a large group of premeds and has no real history of the patients he provides most of his care despite having inadequate time to make a diagnosis. He gives perscriptions for medications that require long term supervison by a physician (TB and HIV) as well as many other drugs with potential side effects that need to be watched for, despite having no ability to provide follow up care. The physician misdiagnoses a number of patients due to inadequate exam time, and many more patients either have the physicians instructions garbled by the translator or take the advice of the premedical student as though that student was a second physician. When the diagnoses conflict with those provided by the local medical providers the locals favor the American 'experts', both causing a needless misdiagnosis and sowing distrust between the locals and their primary medical providers. There is much needless suffering, and the only people who profit from the experience are the Americans who are charging the premeds.

Now which one of these scenarios sounds like GMT?

 

[SweetRain]

I see what you're saying, but like Lizzy said, the challenege is confirming that much (or any) of the donated $ actually goes to the locals, and to make sure that the docs that the $ is supporting are actually providing adequate care. Let me give two scenarios:

Good scenario: A group of physicians, either locally baseded or taking part in a long term placement program like Doctors without Borders, allow a small group US medical students to shadow and maybe even interview patients in exchange for a fee. The fee goes towards medicine, local improvements, and maybe a nominal salary for the physican. The locals still have a normal appointment time with a qualified physician who oversees there care over several years, and since the locals have been seeing the physician as their primary provider for awhile and see the medical students only once their is no confusion about who their provider is. Everyone here gets what they want: the (pre)medical student gets resume fodder and inspiration and the physicians and locals get the money to continue providing basic services.

Bad scenario: A group of physicians goes on short (1-2 week) 'mission' trips, and they charge a large fee to allow premeds to accompany them. There is a very large group of premeds. The company is for profit, and the fees provide nothing for the locals except for the nominal medical care they recieve from the physician on the trip. Because the physician is both sheparding a large group of premeds and has no real history of the patients he provides most of his care despite having inadequate time to make a diagnosis. He gives perscriptions for medications that require long term supervison by a physician (TB and HIV) as well as many other drugs with potential side effects that need to be watched for, despite having no ability to provide follow up care. The physician misdiagnoses a number of patients due to inadequate exam time, and many more patients either have the physicians instructions garbled by the translator or take the advice of the premedical student as though that student was a second physician. When the diagnoses conflict with those provided by the local medical providers the locals favor the American 'experts', both causing a needless misdiagnosis and sowing distrust between the locals and their primary medical providers. There is much needless suffering, and the only people who profit from the experience are the Americans who are charging the premeds.

Now which one of these scenarios sounds like GMT?

It's no use, mate. Those who have been on GMT trips will fight to the death to defend medical mission trips because by agreeing with you, they're admitting that they just wasted thousands of dollars.

But hey, they got to visit some cool tourist sites and put on scrubs.

 

[murfettie]

i hate these things.
the american kids come in, and ruin my perfectly good life at a third world NGO and scare our clients..