Anyone else interested in Complementary Alternative Medicine?

[Here2healyou]

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Hey Everyone!

I just finished my first year. I'm really interested in complementary healing modalities (complementary alternative medicine or CAM)and was wondering if other people with similar interests on SDN might want to chat about it. 🙂 Some questions I have are:
- Did you start a CAM club at your school?
- How do you educate yourself about CAM?
- Do you know anything about CAM residency programs?
- Did your school offer any electives about CAM?
- How are you thinking about integrating CAM in your future practice?
- Are you personally practicing things like meditation or yoga, whole-foods nutrition, detoxification, chelation therapy, hyperbarics, etc...?
- What books did you read about it?
- Did you ever shadow an MD or DO that practices CAM or integrative medicine? What were your experiences like?

I would love to build a circle of friends interested in these subjects! 🙂 Hope to hear from you soon!

Hugs!
- Lily

 

[Trismegistus4]

- How do you educate yourself about CAM?

http://www.quackwatch.org/

 

[njbmd]

Hey Everyone!

I just finished my first year. I'm really interested in complementary healing modalities (complementary alternative medicine or CAM)and was wondering if other people with similar interests on SDN might want to chat about it. 🙂 Some questions I have are:
- Did you start a CAM club at your school?
- How do you educate yourself about CAM?
- Do you know anything about CAM residency programs?
- Did your school offer any electives about CAM?
- How are you thinking about integrating CAM in your future practice?
- Are you personally practicing things like meditation or yoga, whole-foods nutrition, detoxification, chelation therapy, hyperbarics, etc...?
- What books did you read about it?
- Did you ever shadow an MD or DO that practices CAM or integrative medicine? What were your experiences like?

I would love to build a circle of friends interested in these subjects! 🙂 Hope to hear from you soon!

Hugs!
- Lily

My first starting point would be this website NIH's National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine. This Division of the National Institute of Health offers information about Research, Clinical Trials and Training in Complementary and Alternative Medicine. It also offers information about the multitude of disciplines that make up Complementary and Alternative Medicine.

Many medical schools now offer electives and coursework in Complementary and Alternative Medicine and thus, your medical school may have many resources. Check with your dean for some of these courses. Good luck!

 

[lord_jeebus]

I had a preceptor who completed an integrative medicine fellowship after IM.

Most of her patients were just getting conventional care but she had some patients on all kinds of regimens. Red yeast extract for hyperlipidemia and such. It wasn't something she pushed on her patients but she knew what she was doing when patients wanted a yoga referral or asked about safe dosing of CoQ10.

I also worked briefly with an attending that was an acupuncturist prior to med school and incorporated that into his practice.

 

[tulane06]

 

[Here2healyou]

Hey Everyone!

THanks so much for your feedback! Keep it coming!

HuGs,
* Lily *

 

[babycapybara]

I'm a massage therapist and I've also studied a bit about Chinese medicine. I hope to be able to integrate CAM into my practice or at least to give my patients good advice and referrals. There is definitely a place for CAM in Western medicine, especially for chronic conditions and preventative medicine. Even if you don't agree or believe in any of it, it's best to be respectful to all traditions especially if you plan on working with a diverse population or in international medicine. There are alot of things out there that I'm suspicious of, especially as there is little regulation. But good naturopathic and Chinese doctors have studied for 4 years (after undergrad).

 

[ChocolateCrazy]

I have been working as a Research Associate at Treatment and Research Center for the past two years. It is really amazing all that I have learned here in the past two years. It was founded by Dr. Walsh on the principles laid down by Dr. Carl Pfeiffer MD PhD. Pfeiffer worked and researched to cure behavioral disorders with nutrients and minerals by correcting the patients biochemistry instead of dosing them on drugs.
Try to understand it .... it totally makes sense. The biochemical pathways have various vitamins and minerals playing a central role. Tryptophan gives rise to serotonin with the help of iron and and Vit B6. So a person deficient in Vit B6 will have less of serotonin and may end up having depression. This is one of the simplest examples.
The reason why nutrients fail to impress the mainstream medicine is due to pharmaceutical companies that might lose business. Tryptophan was removed from the markets, saying that it caused death in people. But if you go ahead and research that carefully you may find that one batch of samples was contaminated due to some accident; and tryptophan is surely safe. Why aren't drugs that have cause suicide in so many patients removed from the markets? (So we advise patients to eat some turkey 😉 good source of tryptophan!! )
Another example - GABA synthesis , where Zinc and Vitamin B6 play major roles. GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmittor. Why cannot psychiatrists prescribe patients GABA for anxiety, etc.
Additionally, have you ever heard of nutrients causing side effects the way allmost all drugs do?
Drugs are surely important for an instant relief of symptoms. But in the long term correct diet and exercise are more effective.

 

[njaqua]

And I'm sure "they" don't want you to know about this!!!

 

[Here2healyou]

Amen to that ChocolateCrazy! Tell me more...

🙂

 

[njaqua]

I have been working as a Research Associate at Treatment and Research Center for the past two years. It is really amazing all that I have learned here in the past two years. It was founded by Dr. Walsh on the principles laid down by Dr. Carl Pfeiffer MD PhD. Pfeiffer worked and researched to cure behavioral disorders with nutrients and minerals by correcting the patients biochemistry instead of dosing them on drugs.
Try to understand it .... it totally makes sense. The biochemical pathways have various vitamins and minerals playing a central role. Tryptophan gives rise to serotonin with the help of iron and and Vit B6. So a person deficient in Vit B6 will have less of serotonin and may end up having depression. This is one of the simplest examples.
The reason why nutrients fail to impress the mainstream medicine is due to pharmaceutical companies that might lose business. Tryptophan was removed from the markets, saying that it caused death in people. But if you go ahead and research that carefully you may find that one batch of samples was contaminated due to some accident; and tryptophan is surely safe. Why aren't drugs that have cause suicide in so many patients removed from the markets? (So we advise patients to eat some turkey 😉 good source of tryptophan!! )
Another example - GABA synthesis , where Zinc and Vitamin B6 play major roles. GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmittor. Why cannot psychiatrists prescribe patients GABA for anxiety, etc.
Additionally, have you ever heard of nutrients causing side effects the way allmost all drugs do?
Drugs are surely important for an instant relief of symptoms. But in the long term correct diet and exercise are more effective.

I didn't realize it was that simple! Thanks for enlightening us. So eating a lot of turkey and having sufficient B6 can cure depression...interesting.

 

[ChocolateCrazy]

I didn't realize it was that simple! Thanks for enlightening us. So eating a lot of turkey and having sufficient B6 can cure depression...interesting.

No... please do not get me wrong... just B6 and tryptophan cannot cure depression.... it is a lot more complicated.... because we all very different biochemically... it is not about "one theory/drug fits all" .....
it is more about finding out what exactly went wrong to result into depression... is it the serotonin pathway or the dopamine pathway.... is it that u r deficient or overloaded in some minerals or some amino acid.... or is it the methylation pathway!! or is it a combination??!!

Have you heard or read about the methylation pathway / SAMe cycle ??? Research scientists spend their life studying about it!!! that simple four step pathway is controlled by major B vitamins, folic acid, zinc, and what not! yet that simple pathway controls many(almost all major) neurotransmitters!!!

A simple thought to ponder about ---- why do some people do great on antidepressants and the others commit suicide?? can it be because people are biochemically different ?? Why can't we study the differences in populations and decide what treatment works best on whom??!!

 

[SomeDoc]

And I'm sure "they" don't want you to know about this!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Trudeau#Criminal_history_and_legal_problems
I just...couldn't...resist... 🙂

 

[ChocolateCrazy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Trudeau#Criminal_history_and_legal_problems

Just because of all the crap in history, we cannot completely ignore complementary/orthomolecular medicine!!! here is a link to an abstract published in the american psychiatric association this month.... there are many more research articles published recently!!!

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/164/6/861

it talks about homocysteine, which is formed in the methylation pathway..... controlled by vitamins and minerals.... Homocysteine is converted to methioneine with the help of folic acid and Vitamin B12 (nutrients)... homocysteine is also converted to taurine and glutathione (essential antioxidants) with the help of Vitamin B6 and zinc....
too much of homocysteine is related to many medical problems (cardiac, neurological,etc. .. google it!! )... so imagine a person not eating a healthy diet rich in vitamins and essential minerals will surely develop these problems!!!
here is a link to methylation pathway --- http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/181_06_200904/han10269_fm-1.gif

 

[ForbiddenComma]

I decided to interview with a naturopath just for ****s and giggles during my M2 year. There are obviously a lot of people who believe in this stuff, and I wanted to see for myself what all the fuss was about.

Here's what I do know:

- Naturopaths are incredibly jealous of MDs and very defensive about their own "schooling," such as it is. They generally crave the respect of a physician but were unable to earn it for themselves.
- They do not use science or evidence-based medicine. Instead, they rely on patient anecdotes when marketing their services.
- They exploit medicine's relative inability to deal with cancer to gain a foothold for their ideas. Much of their marketing material has the idea of, "Chemo makes you sick... we'll make you better." Too bad homeopathy and magnets do not slow the mitosis of neoplastic cells.
- Cancer patients can be desperate... which is understandable when you are dying. Hell, I would be too. This is what naturopaths feed off of.
- Basically, naturopaths rely on the placebo effect: selling their clients sugar pills and telling them it's a panacea. There is something to be said for the placebo effect... the psychological state of a patient has a lot to do with the progression of a chronic disease... but that doesn't change the fact that it's still just a sugar pill.

 

[ChocolateCrazy]

I decided to interview with a naturopath just for ****s and giggles during my M2 year. There are obviously a lot of people who believe in this stuff, and I wanted to see for myself what all the fuss was about.

Here's what I do know:

- Naturopaths are incredibly jealous of MDs and very defensive about their own "schooling," such as it is. They generally crave the respect of a physician but were unable to earn it for themselves.
- They do not use science or evidence-based medicine. Instead, they rely on patient anecdotes when marketing their services.
- They exploit medicine's relative inability to deal with cancer to gain a foothold for their ideas. Much of their marketing material has the idea of, "Chemo makes you sick... we'll make you better." Too bad homeopathy and magnets do not slow the mitosis of neoplastic cells.
- Cancer patients can be desperate... which is understandable when you are dying. Hell, I would be too. This is what naturopaths feed off of.
- Basically, naturopaths rely on the placebo effect: selling their clients sugar pills and telling them it's a panacea. There is something to be said for the placebo effect... the psychological state of a patient has a lot to do with the progression of a chronic disease... but that doesn't change the fact that it's still just a sugar pill.

yeah i agree... there are a lot of those funky-wannabe-docs out there!!!!

 

[dilated]

GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmittor. Why cannot psychiatrists prescribe patients GABA for anxiety, etc.

*whispers* Because GABA does not cross the blood brain barrier and thus would have no effec--hey, wait a second... I just found the newest homeopathic remedy! Get your GABA while it's hot! 100% guaranteed to be just as effective as alternative medicine!

 

[lord_jeebus]

*whispers* Because GABA does not cross the blood brain barrier and thus would have no effec--hey, wait a second... I just found the newest homeopathic remedy! Get your GABA while it's hot! 100% guaranteed to be just as effective as alternative medicine!

As is true of all bad ideas, the Japanese have already done this, in candy and soft drink form.

http://www.mikesblender.com/indexblog91.htm (on the left)

http://www.jt-gaba.com/

 

[ChocolateCrazy]

*whispers* Because GABA does not cross the blood brain barrier and thus would have no effec--hey, wait a second... I just found the newest homeopathic remedy! Get your GABA while it's hot! 100% guaranteed to be just as effective as alternative medicine!

hey ... yeah u r right... with such a high molecular weight GABA surely cannot cross the BBB...
but can vitamins cross the BBB easily as they generally weigh below 500 daltons i guess?! some of the recent research articles suggest that some of the brain disorders could be just nutrient defeciencies ?!?! so cant they be not corrected by balancing biochemistry?!?!
I learned the following from a psychiatrist --- >some drugs work by blocking receptors in the brain.... as a result the brain responds by increasing those receptors... thus the doctor now has to increase the dosage of the prescribed drug .... it is like a never ending vicious cycle...
so if it is a biochemical problem like some nutrient deficiency ... don't you think there is hope of correcting it in some other way besides drugs??i dunno i seem to really like the biochem aspect of human body?!?!

 

[lord_jeebus]

so if it is a biochemical problem like some nutrient deficiency ... don't you think there is hope of correcting it in some other way besides drugs??i dunno i seem to really like the biochem aspect of human body?!?!

If this was a significant cause of any kind of pathology, you'd see lower incidence of disease in people who take multivitamins. But you don't.

The medical community has done an excellent job of identifying the significance of nutrient deficiencies when they are important (eg. folate in pregnancy) and I don't see how something like nutrient deficiencies leading to behavioral disorders would be missed.

Is your employer doing double-blind, randomized, prospective trials of nutrient supplementation for mental illness? If not, why?

 

[njaqua]

A simple thought to ponder about --- why do some people do great on antidepressants and the others commit suicide?? can it be because people are biochemically different ?? Why can't we study the differences in populations and decide what treatment works best on whom??!!

Absolutely. It is because our models of depression and antidepressants are incomplete and simplistic. Too little serotonin, overactive negative feedback receptors, etc.
Hopefully we can begin to tailor drugs towards individuals with certain genetic markers, etc., leading to more individualized medicine/treatment.

 

[njaqua]

Just because of all the crap in history, we cannot completely ignore complementary/orthomolecular medicine!!! here is a link to an abstract published in the american psychiatric association this month.... there are many more research articles published recently!!!

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/164/6/861

it talks about homocysteine, which is formed in the methylation pathway..... controlled by vitamins and minerals.... Homocysteine is converted to methioneine with the help of folic acid and Vitamin B12 (nutrients)... homocysteine is also converted to taurine and glutathione (essential antioxidants) with the help of Vitamin B6 and zinc....
too much of homocysteine is related to many medical problems (cardiac, neurological,etc. .. google it!! )... so imagine a person not eating a healthy diet rich in vitamins and essential minerals will surely develop these problems!!!
here is a link to methylation pathway --- http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/181_06_200904/han10269_fm-1.gif

Yeah, it's implicated in certain diseases but it could be only part of a much larger equation. It's simplistic to say "well people with theses disease have low homocysteine so it must be due to that". Granted I haven't read the original articles, not that interested, but I'm guessing it hasn't been proven causitive yet. I do recall work with homocysteine and B6 related to CV disease that has cast some doubt on its exact role. Is it causing the problems or merely a symptom? part of a larger process. A "ghost" in the machine. My primary point is, it's just not that simple. Thanks for the patronizing link. I had no idea what the methylation pathway was, being a medical student.

 

[njaqua]

In the case of Korsakoff's Psychosis with the extremem thiamine deficiency you see psychiatric symptoms, just before anyone else says it. I just wouldn't spend my life trying to find the vitamin link to every psychiatric/behavioral problem out there. Good point on the MVN in the earlier post. I suspect you'd also see a greater prevalence in developing nations.

anyway, peace out.

 

[RockShox]

I would like to just point out to the class that in the 21st century the use of the term CAM is bogus at its face. We live in an evidence based world and as such anything that is worth its muster is medically available. For example, digoxin (a naturally occuring material I might add) has several, proven uses. If some brazilian root somewhere is also shown to be as or more effective then it will be included. Anything that falls outside of this realm is not alternative it is simply illigitimate. I personally feel that the only "CAM" that should be taught is either things that have proven effectiveness or usefulness ( and I am not talking about studies done by "Hippies Against Tylenol") or things that are proven to be toxic.

Second, I am tired of people claiming that because something came out of a plant or a yak's ass that it is safe. Case in point; that BS Airborne anti-illness stuff being sold under the catch phrase of "made by a second-grade teacher" as a significant amount of Vit A in it. Someone taking that with multivitamins could cause themselves some serious harm.

Last, the herbal/natural stuff is not regulated. This doesn't just mean in efficacy but also in dosage. So you have no idea if the amount of ginseng you are getting is 1 gram or 0 grams, etc. Because that manufacturer is accountable to no one.

Since the 1800s organized medicine and the rule of law have tried to stamp out quackery that makes all kinds of promises but offers nothing. We will continue to do that into the next century. I do not know of any physician I have ever worked with that would hold back a treatment that is shown to work in a patients condition, no matter what continent it comes from. But I do know many that are smart enough not to get swept up in the latest, unproven fad.

 

[sgglaze]

It probably makes a lot of sense from a business perspective to include CAM into a practice.

Whether we like it or not, there is definitely a market for alternative treatments and insurance companies are facing more and more pressure from consumers to cover them.

It's total BS, and symptomatic of our nation's severe ignorance when it comes to science (~50% of American's don't believe in evolution), but PCPs who do not offer these services run the risk of losing patients to complete quacks.

Given the ignorance of the American public, I'd rather administer CAM safely under REAL medical supervision in addition to standard treatment, rather than risk the patient going to a Naturopath quack for hazardous care.

 

[8744]

It probably makes a lot of sense from a business perspective to include CAM into a practice.

Whether we like it or not, there is definitely a market for alternative treatments and insurance companies are facing more and more pressure from consumers to cover them.

It's total BS, and symptomatic of our nation's severe ignorance when it comes to science (~50% of American's don't believe in evolution), but PCPs who do not offer these services run the risk of losing patients to complete quacks.

Given the ignorance of the American public, I'd rather administer CAM safely under REAL medical supervision in addition to standard treatment, rather than risk the patient going to a Naturopath quack for hazardous care.

Look, I agree with your take on CAM completely. But you are not responsible for the bad decisions of your patients. That's the bit of medical school propaganda that we need to un-learn. My patients occasionally ask me about CAM and while I am polite and respectful, I give them my opinion on it in clear, unambiguous terms which is what they deserve and need even if sometimes they don't expect it or take it well.

I'm not going to sell 'em magnets or herbals just because I want to keep them from going somewhere else. They're adults, they can make up their own minds.

http://pandabearmd.com/blog/2007/05...t-two-complementary-and-alternative-medicine/

 

[cfdavid]

I would like to just point out to the class that in the 21st century the use of the term CAM is bogus at its face. We live in an evidence based world and as such anything that is worth its muster is medically available. For example, digoxin (a naturally occuring material I might add) has several, proven uses. If some brazilian root somewhere is also shown to be as or more effective then it will be included. Anything that falls outside of this realm is not alternative it is simply illigitimate. I personally feel that the only "CAM" that should be taught is either things that have proven effectiveness or usefulness ( and I am not talking about studies done by "Hippies Against Tylenol") or things that are proven to be toxic.

Second, I am tired of people claiming that because something came out of a plant or a yak's ass that it is safe. Case in point; that BS Airborne anti-illness stuff being sold under the catch phrase of "made by a second-grade teacher" as a significant amount of Vit A in it. Someone taking that with multivitamins could cause themselves some serious harm.

Last, the herbal/natural stuff is not regulated. This doesn't just mean in efficacy but also in dosage. So you have no idea if the amount of ginseng you are getting is 1 gram or 0 grams, etc. Because that manufacturer is accountable to no one.

Since the 1800s organized medicine and the rule of law have tried to stamp out quackery that makes all kinds of promises but offers nothing. We will continue to do that into the next century. I do not know of any physician I have ever worked with that would hold back a treatment that is shown to work in a patients condition, no matter what continent it comes from. But I do know many that are smart enough not to get swept up in the latest, unproven fad.

I totally agree. It's funny how some people advocate "natural" as if some molecule in an herb is not working at the chemical level anyway. I'd rather take 200 mg of Aspirin than chew a couple of handfulls of willow bark..... At least I know what I'm getting, in terms of dosage. And, all the other crap in such herbs or roots is extracted out.

 

[deleted77919]

I prefer to use the term "non-evidence based medicine" instead of CAM.

 

[psipsina]

I'm intrigued about CAM too. My school has an integrative medicine interest group with a great faculty mentor and we have CAM lectures integrated into our regular curriculum. I would love to see more well designed studies on different CAM modalities as I do believe that some of them have a use in modern medicine. I had a personal experience seeing a naturopath, I had RA type symptoms but no tests were positive except those showing inflammation, on a whim I went to see the ND who diagnosed me with food sensitivities using an IgG antibody test and when I cut the food out of my diet the symptoms went away, when I've gotten the foods by mistake my hands ache (often before I know I've eaten something by mistake). Its totally anecdotal but my experience piqued my interest. I want to at least be knowledgeable about these treatments so I can understand what my patients might be using.

 

[Husky85]

I totally agree. It's funny how some people advocate "natural" as if some molecule in an herb is not working at the chemical level anyway. I'd rather take 200 mg of Aspirin than chew a couple of handfulls of willow bark..... At least I know what I'm getting, in terms of dosage. And, all the other crap in such herbs or roots is extracted out.

Yea, you can never be sure that the snake oil you're being sold by CAM "practicioners" (and I use that term loosely) is safe. w/o quality testing, their ground asparagus root might have all kinds of environmental toxins (cyanide, mercury, etc.)

 

[cfdavid]

Yea, you can never be sure that the snake oil you're being sold by CAM "practicioners" (and I use that term loosely) is safe. w/o quality testing, their ground asparagus root might have all kinds of environmental toxins (cyanide, mercury, etc.)

I remember reading about a "natural" product for erectile dysfunction (NO, not for personal reasons...). I can't remember the product, but it was a plant based extract that was used in a lot of OTC ED pills. It was "natural", but contained toxins that were shown over time to destroy the liver.

Finally, they took it off the market. But, you have to wonder how many people experienced the negative effects first, given the lack of scrutiny in the nutraceutical industry.... All the time thinking that they were taking something "natural", and not "some drug"..... Wow.

I can send a link, but don't have the time to search for it right now...

 

[morffius]

Its funny every time I talk to someone who advocates CAM, it seems the only way it will work is if you "believe" it. That just screams of placebo effect. Now, could we educate the populous enough to "believe" in tested medication to get some super-efficacy from placebo + actual effect?

 

[TMP-SMX]

I think it is dangerous because it isn't regulated. However, where is the danger of having a neurologist that is also a certified accupuncturist? Seems to me like what they do is relieve pain without any drug interactions. You know what you are sticking in your patients and it reduces pain.

 

[Here2healyou]

So why aren't there more RCT's for CAM therapies?

Most likely because no one wants to fund them! Certainly not the filthy rich pharmaceutical industry, (could hurt their multi-billion dollar profit sales), but they will pay millions to sell their drugs to the American public in the mainstream media, and I'll go so far as to say, manipulate them into believing that they need them.

I'm glad I posted this topic because I now see how hostile some med students are towards alternative medicine. In my humble opinion, it might be good to get a little introspective and ask yourself what the source of your feelings might be. Why are some of your so defensive? where did that come from ? Why might it be advantagous for the next generation of doctors to have negative preconceived notions about CAM?

🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂
* Lily *

 

[Husky85]

Hi Lily,

I'm not aversed to CAM in principle. I think that there is a lot of potential in natural remedies and in traditional/cultural medical practices. BUT, I would be remiss if I did not also recognize the extreme lack of current data supporting most CAM therapies in clinical testing. Also, I feel that the most important factor (more important than efficacy) is safety. There have been many many instances where naturopathic, homeopathic, and other CAM remedies have been shown to carry toxins that over time can exert serious damage. (hopefully cfdavid will have more time later to share specific data with us)

I agree that CAM has a lot of potential, especially when integrated with modern biomedicine, but until its efficacy has been proven (beyond the placebo effect) and until the QA of the safety of the remedies have improved I would not feel safe endorsing CAM or supplying its treatments to patients.

I seriously don't mean this as any slight, I have spent some time studing Curanderismo as well as a handful of other methodologies and they do seem to have an effect, but until I am confident in the safety and efficacy of these treatments I would not feel safe promoting them. At this point in time, however I think it is most important that American doctors do learn about different CAM modalities anecdotally so that they can better understand their patients and relate on their level.

 

[centreMass]

Science magazine had a discussion of the NIH CAM program several months ago. The gist was that a large sum of money had been dumped into clinical trials with no treatments proving efficacious. The NCCAM director thought otherwise of course.
Maybe its time the naturaceutical companies started funding clinical trials instead of our government.

 

[Here2healyou]

Husky85,

I totally agree with you and appreciate your post. But you have yet to answer my question, why is it so difficult to find the funding to run CAM RCTs?

I do believe that there are RCTs that have been done on things like turmeric as an anti-inflammatory and certain vitamins, I'm in the process of compiling them and would be happy to share in time with all of you.

By the way, a little more on the FDA - genetically modified organisms have the theoretical ability to produce toxins and allergens through placement of promoter regions and foreign organism DNA into transgenic crop DNA -- there have been no long term human studies to validate safety because the FDA felt it wasn't necessary- why are human beings the guinea pigs? By the way, studies have shown that GMO crop DNA is not destroyed in the HCL of the stomach but infact persists into the colon where it is capable of entering ECOLI via transduction - effectively converting them into pesticide producing factories in our own bodies. Studies of the fecal contents of colostomy bags have shown this. not to mention the revolving door between the biotech companies (ie. Monsanto) and the FDA itself. What's that? Don't want to deal with the hassle of safety precautions? that's alright you can just become a member of the FDA and validate the safety of your own research! God bless the FDA.
If you don't believe me, go to www.seedsofdeception.com.

Lily 🙂 🙂 🙂

 

[Here2healyou]

Hi everyone,

My original intent in creating this thread was not to debate the efficacy of CAM therapies but to find a group of people interested in CAM so that we could share resources and support one another in friendship....

I just wanted to state my original intent and keep the door open for appropriate responses to my initial post. 🙂

Paz!
* Lily *

 

[bottles999]

That just screams of placebo effect. Now, could we educate the populous enough to "believe" in tested medication to get some super-efficacy from placebo + actual effect?

Just to shed some light on some of the latest data on the placebo effect, recently summarized in this radio program dedicated to "The Placebo Effect":

http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/episodes/2007/05/18

In short they are using fMRI to visualize areas in the brain that are activated when given a real drug vs. a placebo to relieve pain, using tradition and ridgid scientific methods. Both approaches will activate similar areas in the brain that are associated with pain relief. Your suggestion, not sure if you intended it serious, but is infact being researched - coupling real drugs and use of placebo. However, the real problem is that The Placebo Effect not 100% consistent with ppl. While this show, humorous at points as it is, does summarize the basics of whats understood to date about this subject.

Go figure

 

[morffius]

Excellent find, Bottles999.

Just to shed some light on some of the latest data on the placebo effect, recently summarized in this radio program dedicated to "The Placebo Effect":

http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/episodes/2007/05/18

In short they are using fMRI to visualize areas in the brain that are activated when given a real drug vs. a placebo to relieve pain, using tradition and ridgid scientific methods. Both approaches will activate similar areas in the brain that are associated with pain relief. Your suggestion, not sure if you intended it serious, but is infact being researched - coupling real drugs and use of placebo. However, the real problem is that The Placebo Effect not 100% consistent with ppl. While this show, humorous at points as it is, does summarize the basics of whats understood to date about this subject.

Go figure