Anyone else not really have any significant EC's?

[MercyKillerDoc]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Really I am lazy and dont care about doing EC's because they are so boring. I have a few minor ones but nothing big really. My academics will probably be significantly above average though because this is something that I actually enjoy and am interested in (biology). Yes.... I think I may do research sometime but I dont know. How much will this screw me over?

 

[MercyKillerDoc]

Also regarding research... I would be doing it next summer... The summer that I would apply. So can I still list it on AMCAS even though I would just be starting or about to start?

 

[jeffsleepy]

Pretty screwed I would think. They need to be convinced that you know what you're getting into. Also, you need some letters from your extracurriculars. You can list the research, but I don't know how much it would help you. Make yourself do it. It's just another hurdle. Lots of people have the nice numbers.

 

[DrBowtie]

What types of awards are people listing?

 

[MercyKillerDoc]

Pretty screwed I would think. They need to be convinced that you know what you're getting into. Also, you need some letters from your extracurriculars. You can list the research, but I don't know how much it would help you. Make yourself do it. It's just another hurdle. Lots of people have the nice numbers.

I dont understand. Volunteer work shows that I know what I am getting in to? No volunteer work is anything like being a doctor.

 

[HessExpress]

From what i've derived you don't need those b.s. ec's that are a waste of time 😴 like the academic honor socities or whatever where you spend an hour a month "helping the community", but some sort of clinical experience is basically a must have. Anything - volunteering at a hospital, shadowing a doc, emt, etc., etc., and if you can do something consistently it'll help.

And someone mentioned "letters from ec's"?...No, you don't need those, if you are applying allopathic all you need is letters from professors, and, usually, one of those composite letters undergrad schools fashion together.

 

[HessExpress]

Pretty screwed I would think. They need to be convinced that you know what you're getting into. Also, you need some letters from your extracurriculars. You can list the research, but I don't know how much it would help you. Make yourself do it. It's just another hurdle. Lots of people have the nice numbers.

Yes, lots of people have the nice numbers, but lots of people also have nice ec's with not so nice numbers. Your pick. Rock the MCAT or rock the ec's. GPA/MCAT will still matter more than any cookie cutter ec.

 

[secretasianman]

Yes, lots of people have the nice numbers, but lots of people also have nice ec's with not so nice numbers. Your pick. Rock the MCAT or rock the ec's. GPA/MCAT will still matter more than any cookie cutter ec.

stand out with unique EC's that pique curiosity, or by taking on a huge amount of long term EC's(that aren't bs) and still doing well in academics. it's not pretty, but it's how the system is. just work it. i think you may need to reflect on your first sentence and think about how much you can "unlazy" yourself, because otherwise this may not be the right profession for u ;p.

 

[MercyKillerDoc]

Anyone else have anything to contribute? Seem like the question has not been answered yet.

 

[registered user]

It seems to me like the question was answered pretty well. Either rock the mcrap and have a great gpa or do some worthwhile ec's. My two cents would be to definitely do something you enjoy that is interesting to adcom's. You can find something. I have heard of people with good grades and scores but nothing else not getting in. You don't want to be one of those people.

 

[wetlightning]

Yes.... I think I may do research sometime but I dont know. How much will this screw me over?

this question has been answered....it seems the consensus is that no significant EC's WILL screw you over, unfortunately.

sounds to me like you're not applying this year?? (or am i wrong). if so, you still have plenty of time to rectify this. if research/biology/hard science is your real interest, rather than medical or clinical work, you might want to rethink why you want to enter medicine. it's cool that you are interested in hard science work, but medicine has many other components , and EC's are the way that you show your proficiency in these areas to adcoms (as well as to yourself).

short answer: no real EC's will not be good for your application. pick something that you are really interested in, and pursue it. you don't have to have multitudinous EC's like some of the candidates you see on mdapplicants, but having none at all, except for some research, will most likely be detrimental to your application.

best of luck to you!

 

[2009doc]

i thought like you, MercyKillerDoc, when i began the application process almost a year ago (!), and i have definitely learned that ECs are a big deal. my grades and mcat scores are above the averages for every med school in the us- and they didn't take me nearly as far as i thought they would. this application process is extremely humbling- there are alot of really bright people out there- and smarts only gets you past the initial cutoff for most schools. they want invoved, interested, passionate people with personal initiative. like its been suggested- find something that interests you, and throw yourself into it (because they really can see through resume stuffing and the real deal). it will not only help you with med school, but will also enrich your life much more than you could every have expected. 🙂

however i have to admit, if you don't care where you go- sky high stats may get you in to some safety school (but still, not nearly as easily as you think...).

basically- don't underestimate the power of your fellow applicants with 3.3 gpa, 32 mcat and years of hospital experience, study abroad experience, and crew captain, and president of some on campus human rights club to beat out the minimalist brainiac when it comes to admissions!!

 

[wetlightning]

and president of some on campus human rights club to beat out the minimalist brainiac when it comes to admissions!!

LOL...that is freakin hilarious, cause i'm definitely president of my "campus human rights club"

 

[SpyPuts]

Also regarding research... I would be doing it next summer... The summer that I would apply. So can I still list it on AMCAS even though I would just be starting or about to start?

I think we need some more specifics to answer your question. What do you predict your MCAT and GPA to be at time of application, and what schools are you looking to get into? That one research experience probably will not help very much, unless you're just looking to get in to a US MD school. Most successful applicants at highly ranked schools have significant research and/or volunteer activities beginning as early as freshman year.

If you don't start researching until you're in the middle of filling out AMCAS, I can't imagine you would have a whole lot to say about it. Same goes for volunteer and work experiences.

 

[45408]

Yes, lots of people have the nice numbers, but lots of people also have nice ec's with not so nice numbers. Your pick. Rock the MCAT or rock the ec's. GPA/MCAT will still matter more than any cookie cutter ec.

The problem is, with so many people applying, there's a very good chance that at any school this guy applies, there will be someone with equally good numbers and much better ECs. Rocking the MCAT is not at the expense of having good ECs either.

Like another poster mentioned, if you only start doing research the summer before your final year, you're not going to have a whole lot to say about it in an interview.

Nobody is suggesting that you run out and sign up for the National Dean's List, volunteer 10 hours for Habitat for Humanity, and spend a weekend volunteering in an ER, but believe it or not, you can do something meaningful. And the people who did do that will be in better shape than you.

 

[MercyKillerDoc]

I think we need some more specifics to answer your question. What do you predict your MCAT and GPA to be at time of application, and what schools are you looking to get into? That one research experience probably will not help very much, unless you're just looking to get in to a US MD school. Most successful applicants at highly ranked schools have significant research and/or volunteer activities beginning as early as freshman year.

If you don't start researching until you're in the middle of filling out AMCAS, I can't imagine you would have a whole lot to say about it. Same goes for volunteer and work experiences.

Probably a gpa of around 3.8, MCAT somewhere in the 30's (based off practice tests), some hospital volunteer, general bull**** honor society crap, and the research which I plan on doing next summer.

I dont care a great deal where I go as far as ranking, but there are a few crap ones like howard which I would not bother applying to.

 

[wetlightning]

Probably a gpa of around 3.8, MCAT somewhere in the 30's (based off practice tests), some hospital volunteer, general bull**** honor society crap, and the research which I plan on doing next summer.

I dont care a great deal where I go as far as ranking, but there are a few crap ones like howard which I would not bother applying to.

umm, since you started this thread and (i assume) that means you are concerned about your application status, i would definitely still recommend EC's...3.8 gpa's and MCAT's above 30 are easy to come by-- there are many highly qualified candidates who have both plus meaningful community service/volunteering activities. don't just rely on your numbers...you HAVE to make yourself stand out.

also, i would be wary of calling any med school "crap" -- you're going to get out with an MD degree and a good education (in my opinion) if you go to med school in the states, and even elsewhere. so basically, straighten out your attitude, just some friendly advice 🙄

good luck with all your plans

 

[tank you]

i recommend doing tutoring, it shows leadership. also, you have to volunteer in a hospital for some clinical experience.

 

[LizzyM]

Medicine is, ultimately, as profession that serves others. ECs that show that you have the initiative to be unselfish and give of your time to help others is a plus.

The physician is the leader of a team of health care professional. ECs that show you have experience as a leader and an organizer of others is a plus.

Medicine involves taking care of the sick. There are many aspects to dealing with the sick that are unpleasant. ECs that show that you have been exposed to the unpleasantness that goes along with close proximity to the sick (what I call, in my shorthand, "Have you smelled patients?") are a plus.

Medicine is, more and more, being practiced based on evidence from the scientific literature. ECs that give you experience with scientific research of any kind are a plus.

Medicine in some locations involves the care of patients from different cultures, religions, languages, etc. Having an understanding of more than one culture/language (obtained through family experience, living with people of a different culture for an extended period, or travel) is a plus.

There are far more applicants with high numbers than there are interview slots. The interview slots go to the people who have numbers high enough to get by at that particular school and who have some (or all) of those pluses.

You could have a 4.0 and a 40 and get rejected if the "experience" box on the AMCAS says nothing but "Phi Beta Kappa" and "Dean's List".

 

[indo]

volunteering is pretty much a requirement. You probably have a better chance of getting in without general biology than you do without community service type crap.

 

[Shredder]

forget about all of this. start your own small business or do internships with companies. standard ECs are crap, and i am on your side concerning them. if you can get a bio paper out of some lab that should be sufficient. tell adcoms you were too absorbed in making super discoveries to worry about ECs. i think many years ago you wouldve been just fine with good grades and mcat, but i dont think it works like that anymore unfortunately.

 

[LadyJubilee8_18]

i recommend doing tutoring, it shows leadership. also, you have to volunteer in a hospital for some clinical experience.

I volunteered at a home for the elderly and I worked with Alzheimer's patients. Does that count? Am I screwed if I've never volunteered at an actual hospital?

I was also a lab tech for a little while and I'm going to get a project next fall, I'm doing SMEP this summer, I am in CCC (collegiate cancer counsel), and I'm an Honors Advocate at my school. A few other things, but nothing major. I feel really low on the clinicals but I have to apply this year.

 

[LizzyM]

If you volunteered at a home for the elderly and worked with Alzheimer patients you certainly have met the criteria of having "smelled patients". 🙄

 

[LadyJubilee8_18]

If you volunteered at a home for the elderly and worked with Alzheimer patients you certainly have met the criteria of having "smelled patients". 🙄

...I just needed some damn advice, not everyone on her has planned to be a doctor since first grade. I never indicated that I thought I had significant clinical experience no need to be rude.

 

[QofQuimica]

...I just needed some damn advice, not everyone on her has planned to be a doctor since first grade. I never indicated that I thought I had significant clinical experience no need to be rude.

I don't think Lizzie meant to be rude, Lady. I interpreted what she said to mean the opposite, that you have more than have sufficient medical experience, and she thinks you're silly for worrying that you don't.

 

[LadyJubilee8_18]

I don't think Lizzie meant to be rude, Lady. I interpreted what she said to mean the opposite, that you have more than have sufficient medical experience, and she thinks you're silly for worrying that you don't.

Oh, sorry I must have misread. I apologize to Lizzie. I did not understand what you were trying to say.

 

[domukin]

I agree with shredder - I have my own (very small) business and it came up in every interview -

I'd say any work experience should be listed, as well as some clinical exposure- yea its not anything like being a doctor, but at least you get a glimpse of it, and it shows you are humble and interested in the field.

By the way, it is VERY difficult to get something published, and even then it’s more difficult to get that undergrad assistant dude's name on the paper- I wouldn't bank on anything like that. Do research if you like it, its not a *required* EC, but I'd say clinical is.

 

[Shredder]

I agree with shredder - I have my own (very small) business and it came up in every interview -

I'd say any work experience should be listed, as well as some clinical exposure- yea its not anything like being a doctor, but at least you get a glimpse of it, and it shows you are humble and interested in the field.

By the way, it is VERY difficult to get something published, and even then it’s more difficult to get that undergrad assistant dude's name on the paper- I wouldn't bank on anything like that. Do research if you like it, its not a *required* EC, but I'd say clinical is.

domukin thats good news, im involved in my doc brothers startup website (www.medicaltourism.com) and im highly considering putting it at the forefront of my apps. wow i wasnt expecting anyone to side with me, im the maverick around here usually. could you elaborate on your situation?

publishing--hmm around mdapplicants and sdn it seems like nothing at all. i guess thats the perception one gets from hanging around places like these all the time.

 

[LizzyM]

Having your name on a publication is very impressive to an adcom. Generally it happens only if you've been working in a lab p/t for several years or have taken some time off to work f/t. It certainly isn't essential but it a very big plus.

 

[45408]

Probably a gpa of around 3.8, MCAT somewhere in the 30's (based off practice tests), some hospital volunteer, general bull**** honor society crap, and the research which I plan on doing next summer.

I dont care a great deal where I go as far as ranking, but there are a few crap ones like howard which I would not bother applying to.

🙄 Wait until someone who graduated from Howard is pimping you in the wards, and you realize you've got nothing.

Anyways, you're probably fine if you're applying for your state school (not in CA though), but other than that, you're fighting an uphill battle without having much more than a few numbers to your name.

 

[KitEKatEli]

i think you may need to reflect on your first sentence and think about how much you can "unlazy" yourself, because otherwise this may not be the right profession for u ;p.

Ha ha..."unlazy" yourself...I agree.

On a side note, what the heck is up with all the acronyms: ECs, adcoms, etc.? I know people throw them around a lot on this board, but it's just godawful when they've become pawns in your effort to work the system. As if all activities and admissions committees were the same!

Yes, I agree that to some extent, med school admissions is a game that you have to know how to play. But I would hope that your ECs are a real reflection of who you are: someone who enjoys helping people, trying new things, or doing whatever.

I think Shakespeare & Oscar Wilde say it best:

"This above all: to thine own self be true. And it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man."

and

"The cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing."

 

[bodi]

I have a question about EC's as well!

A little background: I'm just graduating (BS), took the MCAT last month, and starting the application process now. Good GPA (3.75), decent MCAT (probably a 30), but not so good EC's.

For the last four years I have been working full-time to support myself while attending college. Between working full-time and school full-time I just have not had time to do much volunteer work, or shadowing. I plan on shadowing quite a bit after I graduate (after August), and maybe volunteering (how anyone gets realistic patient exposure volunteering is beyond me--every hospital I talk to basically want you to run the gift shop or something else equally boring).

Will medical schools take into account the fact that I worked full-time my entire undergraduate career? I don't think they will. I think they will say "tough **** you have no clinical experience". Any ideas?

Thanks,
bodi

 

[MercyKillerDoc]

🙄 Wait until someone who graduated from Howard is pimping you in the wards, and you realize you've got nothing.

Anyways, you're probably fine if you're applying for your state school (not in CA though), but other than that, you're fighting an uphill battle without having much more than a few numbers to your name.

Great. Howard has a few smart people. So does EVERY institution. Even community colleges. This does not mean that the student body on average is good and that it is a desirable place to be. Thanks though for your advice. Just wanted to explain why what I said shouldnt be taken as an arrogant comment.

 

[LizzyM]

Employment of any kind certainly belongs in the "Experience" section of the AMCAS and it will be taken into account by the adcoms. If working is related to the financial hardship you and your family faced as you were growing up (did you work in HS? did your wages help to cover family living expenses? what % of your tuition/fees in college was covered by your earnings?) the you might want to check the "hardship" box as well and fill out that section of the AMCAS. That too, will be taken into consideration.

That said, it is possible to volunteer in a health care setting that will provide you with the opportunity to be face-to-face with sick people. Rather than a hospital, look into the possibility of volunteering at a nursing home or rehab facility. There may be volunteer opportunities in your community in outpatient clinics that serve the poor & uninsured. Hospice programs that provide friendly visitors/respite for caregivers are another option.

Go to experience what it is to "serve", go for the experience of getting to learn about the experience of the sick/dying. Once you've got your foot in the door you will have an opportunity to meet physicians and some of them may give you the opportunity to gain shadowing experiences that will expand your access to the inner workings of the facility. (e.g. while I was using the recreational facilities available to doctors & staff, I chatted with a doctor who gave me the opportunity to round with him in the ICU. That led me to be introduced to a surgeon who let me watch him perform a minor procedure in the OR.) The volunteer work might be repetitious & boring but it gets you in the door and gives you access to people who you might not otherwise meet.

 

[bodi]

LizzyM: Thanks for the reply.

Unfortunately my parents make too much money, but at the same time not enough to help me out any. Everything I've gotten out of life I've had to work for.

The volunteering ideas you gave were good--thanks. I had not thought of volunteering at a nursing home. I will just have to list volunteering and shadowing on the AMCAS and mention they are works in progress. It should be ok... as long as I can get away from work long enough to do something useful! Sometimes I wish I worked as an EMT....

Thanks,
bodi

 

[Surg Path]

Really I am lazy and dont care about doing EC's because they are so boring. I have a few minor ones but nothing big really. My academics will probably be significantly above average though because this is something that I actually enjoy and am interested in (biology). Yes.... I think I may do research sometime but I dont know. How much will this screw me over?

Well I'm in the opposite boat. I have some ECs- first author publication in high impact journal (Cancer Research), several other publications, 1/2 dozen first author abstracts- I've even given talks at some large research conferences.

BUT- my numbers are poor 27 MCAT and 3.5 GPA. So, there are those (like me I spose) who don't have the highest numbers and just hope someone will look at the ECs.

Any idea how much adcoms would way these kind of ECs anyway?
Thanks

 

[TheMightyAngus]

Stellar activities trump GPA/MCAT every time. Medical school may be all about studying for the first two years, but after that it's all practical. Med schools are training people to be working physicians, not test-takers. If you dont have anything to show apart from your stats, you have no chance.

 

[Surg Path]

Stellar activities trump GPA/MCAT every time. Medical school may be all about studying for the first two years, but after that it's all practical. Med schools are training people to be working physicians, not test-takers. If you dont have anything to show apart from your stats, you have no chance.

Thanks. With a COMPOSITE MCAT of 27 (aug '04 8 8 8, april 6ps 8vr 11bs) would people advise submitting AMCAS and retaking in August? I think I can break 30 if I actually hit the physics. What do you think?
Thanks

 

[45408]

Surg Path - at most schools, a 6 in anything will sink your application without much more than a glance, to be honest. It's your call, but you might be throwing your money away by applying this year unless you are completely sure than you can boost all of your MCAT sections to a 9 or higher. If you can get 9+ in each section this August, then you could apply this time around.