Anyone ever consider being a dentist?

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jdpharmd?

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Not me. Dentists have a very high suicide rate. Someone told me that it's because looking in a mirror all day somehow changes your brain patterns and makes you go crazy eventually. I don't know how valid that is, or where she heard that (she's a vet student at Cornell).

A small percentage of people take really good care of their teeth. I think it woud be depressing or annoying when patients don't listen to your advice, and come back six months later for a check-up with lots of problems. And it also says "yuck" to me to jd.
 
...I am looking for healthcare profession that allows me to work with patients more at the clinical level. Pharmacy is all about standing behind a counter...


Hmmm 🙄
 
Originally posted by karmapatroL
Not me. Dentists have a very high suicide rate. Someone told me that it's because looking in a mirror all day somehow changes your brain patterns and makes you go crazy eventually. I don't know how valid that is, or where she heard that (she's a vet student at Cornell).


Dentists do have a high suicide rate, but pharmacists are not far behind. Your friend is nuts with the mirror stuff, but last I remember it was dentists, pharmacists, and psychiatrists (or was it psychologists?). I'll see if I can dig up any info on that. LV: exactly.
 
I could never understand why in undergrad so many students wanted to be dentists. It seems that there were more pre-dents than pre-meds.

I would never ever want to be a dentist. The last time I went to the dentist I looked at one of the cosmetic dentistry books while I was in the waiting room...and I really got sick. I can handle seeing blood and guts in surgeries, but there's something about a rotting stinking mouth that doesn't do it for me.

I guess the only up side of being a dentist is that you would hardly ever see a really bad case since those people don't go to the dentist in the first place.
 
The upside is that you get to FIX those problems, and get paid for it. People are usually pretty happy when a dentist fixes their toothache, etc. Why would you do it? Two good reasons: hours and money. I knew a few dentists at UofM who were doing it so they could work 3 days a week and still see some great money. They were actually pretty fun people. I guess it just comes naturally for some people. Not for me, but for some people...
 
I never considered being a dentist. I have a very weak stomach and could never stand the sight of decaying teeth.
 
No way!! Dentists are creepies! I have a Dent school friend and he has this thing where he looks at me all creepy and says "Can I see your teeth?" 😱

me: Your [dent school] building smells like the evil place!
him: You know what that smell is? It's FEAR... *cackle*
 
I do not want to become a dentist because of all the noises from the metal instrument and machines.
 
My sister is a dentist and yes, the $$ is pretty sweet. The only problem is that starting out a private practice is tough and competitive and the overhead costs are really really high.

Anyway, I've never ever considered dentistry. If I wanted to play around with peoples' infectious body fluids, I would have gone into medicine. Here's an interesting fact that I've heard: Peoples' mouths are actually more dirty and infectious than their other ends.
 
Originally posted by jdpharmd?
Dentists do have a high suicide rate, but pharmacists are not far behind. Your friend is nuts with the mirror stuff, but last I remember it was dentists, pharmacists, and psychiatrists (or was it psychologists?). I'll see if I can dig up any info on that. LV: exactly.

you know, i always thought med students had the highest suicide rate but i guess not??? and i never realized that pharmacists had a relatively high suicide rate...why's that?
i thought of being a denist at one point but i couldn't do all that shapes stuff on the DAT if my life depended on it. plus i'm not very dextrous at all--in fact i'm a total clutz. 😀
 
Originally posted by chunkyb
....Peoples' mouths are actually more dirty and infectious than their other ends.

Anyone ever consider being a proctologist? 😉
 
i never realized that pharmacists had a relatively high suicide rate...why's that?


I think I can answer that.

Modern retail chain pharmacy is an extremely stressful environment. Not individual tasks, just the sheer volume and the lack of competent help. No time to piss, let alone eat for 8-10-12 hours a day for the rest of your life with no hope of parole could be DEPRESSING. An environment where you crank 400-500 scripts per day is a grind, but management isn't happy with that. There are stores doing eight hundred to twelve hundred on a busy Monday. Have a pharmacist on vacation and one out sick with two technicians that can't find their butt with both hands and you have an environment where an error can slip by even super pharmacist. Don't think for a moment that management would bat an eye at asking one pharmacist to fill a thousand scripts a day by himself if they thought they could get away with it.

I once toured the outpatient facility at Carswell Airforce Base before it closed. That pharmacy was doing 2,000 NEW prescriptions a day - there was a separate facility for refills - with ONE, repeat, ONE pharmacist on duty and an army of technicians.
The clinics would empty out and you would get 300 precriptions in 15-20 minutes. STRESSFUL?

No physician ever had to do surgery with a phone in his ear and three technicians tugging at his elbow
while verifying that the work on his bench was legally correct and patient safe. In this regard, Pharmacy is unique.
 
Ok, I found some info that I thought was interesting.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/jan01/suicide.html

Baggywrinkle, welcome. I can remember not peeing for over 12 hours while working retail through my pre-pharm. I don't plan on doing retail when I graduate, but you never know...
 
Originally posted by crying moo
No way!! Dentists are creepies! I have a Dent school friend and he has this thing where he looks at me all creepy and says "Can I see your teeth?" 😱

me: Your [dent school] building smells like the evil place!
him: You know what that smell is? It's FEAR... *cackle*

LOL!!!
 
>Baggywrinkle, welcome. I can remember not peeing for over 12 >hours while working retail through my pre-pharm. I don't plan >on doing retail when I graduate, but you never know...

Neither did I plan on doing retail. I was a hospital pharmacist exclusively for nine years. Then I took a retail position to live in paradise working for a Mom&Pop. It actually was a very nice position till they went under.

Remember that hospitals can be meat grinders also. You get behind and the nurses will nail you to the wall. Trust me on that.
I left Halifax Hospital in Daytona Beach for Walgreens because the retail environment was the better position. Both are pressure cookers but Halifax was dangerous and highly political.

Watch the classifieds over time and you will notice that the same hospitals advertise constantly. There is usually a reason. Too remote, poor pay, poor working conditions, director is a butthead.
Think I am kidding? There was a director who was legendary when I worked in Dallas. His department was black listed by experienced pharmacists so he depended on new grads. He eventually lost that job but the black listing followed him around the city as he moved from hospital to hospital.

One thing you will learn. It is a small tight community even in a city of six million. Everyone knows everyone else and black listing cuts both ways. That's life in the real world.
 
Obviously, asking Pharmacy students about considering dentistry will get you no where. Wait until you learn the 1st rule of Pharmacy, customer is always right!

They also use that rule in McDonals!
 
"Obviously, asking Pharmacy students about considering dentistry will get you no where."

Implying what?

I respect what dentists do and the profession certainly offers a nice lifestyle, but there is no way I could dig in people's mouths all day -- just not my kind of thing.
 
>I respect what dentists do and the profession certainly offers a >nice lifestyle, but there is no way I could dig in people's mouths >all day -- just not my kind of thing. [/B][/QUOTE]

Two people I have known went on from Pharmacy to become dentists. The two disciplines dovetail nicely, first as a means to feed your self while you are in school, and also as a secondary income and change of pace once you have set up your practice.

One of the nice features of pharmacy is the ability to ALWAYS pick up per diem work somewhere in the schedule you want. Believe me, you tell them I can only give you Thursday and Saturday, they will usually juggle things to get your warm licensed body in the door. The other side of that blade is they will pressure you for more. If you are willing to work there is plenty of it out there for you.
 
".... I respect what dentists do and the profession certainly offers a nice lifestyle, but there is no way I could dig in people's mouths all day -- just not my kind of thing."

1st of all I was addressing to the person who started this thread, who happens to be talking about a thread I started in the pre-dental section.

Secondly, it's NOT about digging people's mouth. Everyone has his/her gateway for them to help others. Most people in here plan to do that through Pharmacy. When I got into Pharmacy school, I wasn't sure if the field was realy for me. On the other hand, I considered Medical school, but I just didn't like the idea of residency and the hours involved. I am now applying to Dental schools and see if I have a shot, in the meantime, am still persuing PharmD, and have nothing to lose whether I get into a Dental School or not.

The way i see it, individuals need to become more than just a competent member of society and to become an asset. This is the greatest thing that can be asked for and it is the greatest thing that can be done.
 
I'm not bashing dentistry at all. Don't take what I said the wrong way. I just wasn't sure what you meant by the statement I quoted.
 
Dentists do NOT have the highest suicide when classified by job professions.

That is nothing more than a rumor that has turned itself into a bit of urban myth. Here are some REAL facts with REAL data (I've added bolding to emphasize certain portions):

20-Apr-2001


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Dear Cecil:

I've always heard that dentists have the highest suicide level of any of the medical professions, but I've never believed it. Is there any truth to it? --Terey Allen, Trenton, Michigan

Cecil replies:

This is one of those dodgy things that "everybody knows." And not just the uninformed public, either--dentists themselves believe it. Since the 1960s dental journals have been carrying articles with headlines like "The Suicidal Professions." Dozens of studies have looked at suicide not only among dentists but among health-care workers in general. With few exceptions, research over the past 40 years has found that dentists (and doctors) take their own lives at a higher-than-average rate. But how much higher? To hear some tell it, you'd better not leave these guys in a room alone.

Dentists' odds of suicide "are 6.64 times greater than the rest of the working age population," writes researcher Steven Stack. "Dentists suffer from relatively low status within the medical profession and have strained relationships with their clients--few people enjoy going to the dentist." One study of Oregon dentists found that they had the highest suicide rate of any group investigated. A California study found that dentists were surpassed only by chemists and pharmacists. Of 22 occupations examined in Washington state, dentists had a suicide rate second only to that of sheepherders and wool workers.

But the sheer diversity of results has to make you suspicious. I mean, which is it--dentists, chemists and pharmacists, or sheepherders and wool workers? (What, the bleating gets to them?) And what about psychiatrists? One school of popular belief holds that they have the highest suicide rate.

Read the studies and you begin to see the problem. Suicide research is inherently a little flaky, in part because suicides are often concealed. Equally important from a statistical standpoint is the problem of small numbers: dentists represent only a small fraction of the total population, only a small fraction of them die in a given year, and only a small fraction of those that die are suicides. So you've got people drawing grand conclusions based on tiny samples. For example, I see where the Swedes think their male dentists have an elevated suicide rate. Number of male-dentist suicides on which this finding is based: 18.

But you aren't reading this column to hear me whine about the crummy data. You want the facts. Coming right up. All we need to do, for any occupation of interest, is (a) find a large, reasonably accurate source of mortality statistics, (b) compute suicides as a percentage of total deaths for said group, and (c) compare that percentage with some benchmark, like so:

PERCENTAGE OF DEATHS DUE TO SUICIDE
U.S. white male population 25 and older (1970): 1.5
U.S. white male dentists (1968-72): 2.0 (85 of 4,190)
U.S. white male medical doctors (1967-72): 3.0 (544 of 17,979)
U.S. white male population 25 and older (1990): 2.0
U.S. white male medical doctors (1984-95): 2.7 (379 of 13,790)

(Sources: Vital Statistics of the United States--1970, National Center for Health Statistics, Table 1-26, "Deaths from 281 Selected Causes, by Age, Race, and Sex: United States, 1970"; death certificates from 31 states, reported in "Mortality of Dentists, 1968 to 1972," Bureau of Economic Research and Statistics, Journal of the American Dental Association, January 1975, pp. 195ff; death reports collected by the American Medical Association, reported in "Suicide by Psychiatrists: A Study of Medical Specialists Among 18,730 Physician Deaths During a Five-Year Period, 1967-72," Rich et al., Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, August 1980, pp. 261ff.; Vital Statistics of the United States--1990, National Center for Health Statistics, Table 1-27, "Deaths from 282 Selected Causes, by 5-Year Age Groups, Race, and Sex: United States--1990"; National Occupational Mortality Surveillance database, reported in "Mortality Rates and Causes Among U.S. Physicians," Frank et al., American Journal of Preventive Medicine, Vol. 19, No. 3, 2000.

I know what you're thinking. Percentages! They're so primitive! What about the Poisson distribution, the chi-square test, the multivariate regression analysis? Not to mention the fact that I don't express suicides relative to 100,000 living population; that I haven't corrected for age distribution, socioeconomic status, etc; and that I couldn't find any current data for dentist mortality in the readily available literature. Sue me. We've got enough here to draw some basic conclusions.

Suicide among white male American dentists is higher than average but not as high as among white male American doctors. (Sorry to limit this to white men, but that's all the data I had to work with.) Don't fret, though. Dentists' death rates from other causes are lower, and on average they live several years longer than the general population. Ditto for doctors.

What's the most suicidal occupation? I won't venture an opinion for the world of work overall, but among health-care types it may well be shrinks. In a study of 18,730 physician deaths from 1967 to 1972 (men and women), psychiatrists accounted for 7 percent of the total but 12 percent of the 593 suicides (source: Rich et al., cited above).

Even more alarming is the rate of suicide among female doctors. A recent study found that 3.6 percent of white female doctors' deaths were suicides--higher than the rate for male doctors and many times the average for U.S. women (0.5 percent for 1990; source: Frank et al., cited above; Vital Statistics of the United States--1990). Women have entered medicine in huge numbers in recent decades, but progress has come at a price.

--CECIL ADAMS

SOURCES

Vital Statistics of the United States--1990, National Center for Health Statistics, Table 1-27, "Deaths from 282 Selected Causes, by 5-Year Age Groups, Race, and Sex: United States--1990."
 
Originally posted by AmandaRxs
I could never understand why in undergrad so many students wanted to be dentists. It seems that there were more pre-dents than pre-meds.

I would never ever want to be a dentist. The last time I went to the dentist I looked at one of the cosmetic dentistry books while I was in the waiting room...and I really got sick. I can handle seeing blood and guts in surgeries, but there's something about a rotting stinking mouth that doesn't do it for me.

I'll try to displace some of your ignorance.

We don't look at rotting/stinking mouths--that's what the hygienists do. When you go to the dentist you've probably noticed that the hygienist does the prophy (cleaning) and then the dentist steps in for 3 minutes to review your radiographs with you and advise a treatment plan.

Many undergrads are at the point where there are, or shortly will be, more predents than premeds. As one person already posted this is due to the $$, work hours, and other job benefits.

Standard hours for a dentist 4-5 years out of school is ~25 hours (3 days a week) with an income of ~$150,000. Those working 5 days a week will bring home ~$200,000.

Of course, specialists will bring home more. It was just four years ago that the salary of general dentists eclipsed the salary of general physicians, and this has drawn more people into the profession.

It's somewhat sad to say that money dictates what is popular, but that seems to have always been the case.

Dentistry is the last staple of healthcare where HMOs/PPOs don't run rampant. And lastly, the oral cavity is the one body space that is not accounted for my MDs/DOs. Podiatrists and optometrists have extensive overlap with their MD/DO counterparts, but dentists have no such thing.

These are the general reasons that people find dentistry appealing. Dirty mouths just aren't typically part of the picture, depending on the desires of the practice.
 
Dentistry certainly isn't for me (like many, i detested going to the dentist more than i would bathe in hot lava, but that was probably more my fault than the dentist's) I do know many that find that route highly appealing. I have a good friend in her 3rd year of Internal med residency, and in her first year she told me quite seriously that if she could do it all again she would've gone dentistry. For many the lifestyle it enables is pretty cool.

Moreover, communication bw pharmacists and dentists/hygienists is becoming more important bc of the # of dental questions pharmacists are having to field these days.
 
Originally posted by ItsGavinC
We don't look at rotting/stinking mouths--that's what the hygienists do.
Yes, but I've never had a hygenist pull my teeth or drill my cavities. I don't care how much you dentists make, there is no way in hell I'd do THAT for a living!
 
Originally posted by Mo007
1st of all I was addressing to the person who started this thread, who happens to be talking about a thread I started in the pre-dental section...


Why are you addressing me? What did I say to offend you? Here are my posts, verbatim, on this thread thus far:

#1 "My mother always told me to be a dentist (because I hate going). I never, never wanted to be, and found pharmacy to be a great choice. I just stumbled across this thread that might be of some interest. Something about having my hands in people's mouths all day long just says "yuck" to me.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/sho...;threadid=80167 "

#2 "Dentists do have a high suicide rate, but pharmacists are not far behind. Your friend is nuts with the mirror stuff, but last I remember it was dentists, pharmacists, and psychiatrists (or was it psychologists?). I'll see if I can dig up any info on that. LV: exactly."

#3 "The upside is that you get to FIX those problems, and get paid for it. People are usually pretty happy when a dentist fixes their toothache, etc. Why would you do it? Two good reasons: hours and money. I knew a few dentists at UofM who were doing it so they could work 3 days a week and still see some great money. They were actually pretty fun people. I guess it just comes naturally for some people. Not for me, but for some people..."

#4 "Ok, I found some info that I thought was interesting.

http://www.apa.org/monitor/jan01/suicide.html

Baggywrinkle, welcome. I can remember not peeing for over 12 hours while working retail through my pre-pharm. I don't plan on doing retail when I graduate, but you never know..."


That apa.org article is just about the same thing that ItsGavinC posted, I didn't post the full text, just the link.

Have I offended anyone? (Didn't think so)
 
No you didn't offend me. We just misunderstood each other.

+pissed+
 
Originally posted by ItsGavinC
I'll try to displace some of your ignorance.

We don't look at rotting/stinking mouths--that's what the hygienists do. When you go to the dentist you've probably noticed that the hygienist does the prophy (cleaning) and then the dentist steps in for 3 minutes to review your radiographs with you and advise a treatment plan.

Standard hours for a dentist 4-5 years out of school is ~25 hours (3 days a week) with an income of ~$150,000. Those working 5 days a week will bring home ~$200,000.

Well thank you very much for displacing my "ignorance". Hmm...but I would have called my post more curious than ignorant.

As for dentists not dealing with rotting teeth, I don't know of any hygienist that can pull teeth, fill cavities, do root canals, and fix gum disease...but maybe I just don't know enough hygienists.

But I'm happy for you that your practice has only patients with perfect teeth that you need to only spend 3 min with and get paid $200 grand! Good job on choosing an excellent career field!😉 🙄
 
Was in dentistry quite a few years ago. Currently entering first year pharmacy. I went into Dentistry for security, independence and of course the money but just could not see myself doing that type of work once I started the program. Quit during first year. I felt the work would be too stressful. The main advantage of dentistry over pharmacy is the relative idependence you have vs pharmacists (unless you own your own pharmacy-rarer today). The main disadvantage of Dentistry for me was the work-too stressful.
 
So, Pharmacy is less stressful?

A lot of people wouldnt agree, but hey wait until you become a pharmacist and 7 old ladies show up for their prescriptions.... you got under 2 mins for each one.

Homer Simpson "Operator, give me the number for nine-one-one!"
 
Originally posted by Mo007
So, Pharmacy is less stressful?

A lot of people wouldnt agree, but hey wait until you become a pharmacist and 7 old ladies show up for their prescriptions.... you got under 2 mins for each one.


Wow, life or death! 🙄 Give me a break. If that's your idea of what a pharmacist is, then maybe you should pursue other career options. You said that you're finished with your first year of pharmacy school, and yet you still have that mentality? ANY healthcare-related profession is very stressful, good luck trying to run from it.
 
just curious. why would you only have two minutes for each patient? that sounds scary because we are taking about life saving drugs.
 
Originally posted by Mo007
...wait until you become a pharmacist and 7 old ladies show up for their prescriptions.... you got under 2 mins for each one.

Now now...after one year of pharm school you really don't believe that working behind the counter at a busy chain retail pharmacy is the predestined future for all of us pharm students, right? 😉

Many of us have our eyes on working at:
  • independent community pharmacy, compounding pharmacy, pharmaceutical care practices...
  • hospital pharmacy, clinical specialists, nuclear pharmacy, consultant pharmacy
  • industrial pharmacy, medical science liasons, drug sales representatives, drug information specialists
  • working for pharmacy benefits managers or the government
  • pharmaceutical economics and policy, and the list goes on and on....
    ...and yes, the plurality of us would probably end up in some kind of retail practice because it is the quickest, easiest route to a lot of $$...but having done a rotation at a Target pharmacy, I can tell you that retail need not be overly stressful.
 
I don't know where you practiced, GKK, but dentistry is widely considered to be one of the least stressful healthcare careers in existence. I know *I'm* looking forward to the 36-hour average work week. 😀
 
aphistis,

I never practised dentistry. I quit during my first year after realizing it wasn't for me. I did mention the "for me" part in my post, so I wasn't claiming dentistry is necessarily stressful. But then again, a number of dentistry journals do acknowledge stress in dentistry which seems to argue against your point that "dentistry is widely considered to be one of the least stressful healthcare careers in existence":

http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/dynapage.taf?file=/bdj/journal/v178/n6/abs/4808717a.html
http://ortho.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/full/26/1/75

Moreover, what does a 36-week average work week (assuming this is accurate) have to do with stress. A job can be very stressful even if only done 10 hours/week. Different strokes for different folks.
 
Fellas, I am sure none of us has an idea what the real world is like yet, even though school may seem stressful, it could be less stressful being a Dentist.... or PHARMACIST!!!
 
Originally posted by AmandaRxs
Well thank you very much for displacing my "ignorance". Hmm...but I would have called my post more curious than ignorant.

You are partly correct. Sorry to have offended you, if I did. I'm a fan of everybody here on SDN. Although, you did "knock" the profession, which doesn't sound like curiosity to me. It sounds like knowing something about the profession while knowing nothing at all. That, of course, is ignorance.
 
Originally posted by GKK
But then again, a number of dentistry journals do acknowledge stress in dentistry which seems to argue against your point that "dentistry is widely considered to be one of the least stressful healthcare careers in existence":

http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/dynapage.taf?file=/bdj/journal/v178/n6/abs/4808717a.html
http://ortho.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/full/26/1/75

Way to post links to BRITISH journals. I'm assuming you are from Britain, which is fabulous.

Dental journals here in the US acknowledge no such thing, however, and dentistry IS recognized as being a laid-back profession.

Just a small clash of two different cultures 🙂
 
Originally posted by Modnar
Yes, but I've never had a hygenist pull my teeth or drill my cavities. I don't care how much you dentists make, there is no way in hell I'd do THAT for a living!

Which is probably why you are going to Pharm school and not a surgery-related field.

No qualms there.
 
Denistry is a profession that relatively depends on the economy since a lot of its income comes from cosmestic denistry. In addition, most dental students would not have the opportunity to specialize.
 
Sorry BMB, but both of those statements are not correct.

It could be said that a fair portion of income of general dentists comes from cosmetic type work, but even still, most general dentists only earn 10-30% of their revenue from cosmetics.

Secondly, there are plenty of opportunities to specialize. An even better thought is that in dentistry you can do ANYTHING you want, as long as your skills are up to par.

That means I can take CE (continuing education) and master the art of endodontics, if I choose. No need to specialize in endodontics. I can do general dentistry and endodontics to my heart's content.
 
ItsGavin,

I'm not British and the two articles I linked used as their sources americal journals as well. See references at end. There is a body of evidence that dentistry like most health professions does involve significant stess. This is also acknowledged in american dental journals (see below). Whether such stress leads to greater sucide rate among dentists is what is questionable. Have a look at this 2001 ADA article:

http://www.cda-adc.ca/jcda/vol-68/issue-4/ADAarticle.pdf

Do you still think that american journals do not acknowledge stress in dentistry? Here are a few more (there are others you can search on any medline):

From: J Am Dent Assoc. 1984 Jul;109(1):48-51.

"Almost 1,000 American dentists attending the 1982 Association annual meeting completed a self-administered questionnaire on sources of stress in dental practice. Most respondents identified dentistry as more stressful than other occupations."

From: J Am Coll Dent. 1997 Winter;64(4):39-43.

"Although over half of the dentists surveyed are satisfied with their career, they are dissatisfied with their level of stress, professional environment (threat of malpractice litigation), and amount of personal time."
 
Originally posted by ItsGavinC
Which is probably why you are going to Pharm school and not a surgery-related field.

No qualms there.
So in other words, we're not "ignorant" for thinking that dentists have to look at disgusting things in people's mouths. That's the point I was trying to make.

I understand now that you didn't mean anything by using that word, but Gavin, you shouldn't say things like "allow me to displace your ignorance" and then act surprised when people get upset with you. 🙄
 
This is f'in lame. We're wasting our time battling over which profession sucks or not. Society needs dentists. Society needs pharmacists. Fortunately, there are peeps that wanna do one or the other. Why sit around here alienating each other? Moreover, I thought it was the optometrists that were supposed to be fightin with the dentists.
 
You and your common sense! 😛
 
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