Anyone ever get to asist a surgeon while shadowing?

[ponybreeder4]

I will be shadowing a surgeon tomorow...and im wondering what to expet. Will he let me scrub in, hold the scalpel, etc?
Anyone of you shadow a surgeon? What did you get to do? Maybe cut the string as he sutures?

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[akinetopsia]

You will most likely be observing from a gallery or scrubbed in and out of his way. I wouldn't count on actively participating in any surgery.

 

[Compass]

You are an observer. You might get lucky, but you probably won't be touching the patient. The nurse in the surgeries I was in had me stay far away from the instruments out of fear that I might pass out.

I did not. I might have fallen asleep since it was a 3 hour procedure and I was watching it on a laparoscopy TV, but pass out I did not.

 

[c5212]

Touch the patient... not a snowball's chance- You won't be touching anything but soap and the insides of latex gloves. sorry

 

[TexasPhysician]

Don't expect it, but.......as a pre-med I was first assist on numerous surgeries (behind the resident) while my faculty just kind of watched on. I got hands-on anatomy lessons, cut suture, retracted, whatever.......

 

[rockaction]

Thank goodness you won't be touching anything. As wonderful as it would be for you to drone on to an interviewer about how you helped a surgeon out, you have to remember that these are serious procedures with real people, not your playground. They have surgical techs for a reason.

 

[teenmachinery1]

You'll probably scrub in and watch from somewhere out of the way of the surgeon.

I scrubbed in, (took pictures of myself scrubbed in, walked around the hospital pretending to be a doctor, etc.) and just watched.

I walked around the perimeter for better angles, watched the monitors, got a tour of the surgery ward (it was both neurosurgery and cardiac surgery), and chilled out!

At the end, I had the sweet sweet sexy pleasure of grabbing a warm blanket from a incubator to hand to the anesthetized patient after the operation.

 

[Dr McSexy]

I've gotten to watch two surgeries.

The first was a bypass surgery to relieve chest pain. I came in around halfway through the surgery. They gave me a step stool and put it where the anesthesiologist usually sits. From there I got to see right into the chest and talk to the surgeon as he performed.

The second was some kind of spinal reconstruction surgery performed by a neurosurgeon. I came in early got to talk to the surgeon before it started. I watched to patient get prepped for surgery. And then I sat back and didn't really get to see much as far as the surgery and inside the body. I just sat around and talked to a few people and watched what went on in the operating room. I was there for 7-8 hours before I got really hungry and decided to leave for the day. Before I left, the surgeon let me stand on his stool and look inside at the spinal cord and the rods and the structures that he was inserting.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

The first was a bypass surgery to relieve chest pain.

Wow, that's a pretty aggressive treatment...

 

[partinerns]

I got to (go into the OR) on a few surgeries, but I always had to stay away (far away) from the sterile field, instruments, etc. Basically I tried to stay out of the way as much as possible. But one time...

I was watching a hip replacement, and when the surgeon cut off the head of the femur, it slipped away onto the floor and rolled over to me. I didn't know what to do, and there was an awkward moment. Then the scrub nurse told me to pick it up and throw it away in a bio hazard bag.

I don't want to do surgery, and of course this even was the smallest of nothings, but it was AWESOME! WOO!

 

[Depakote]

For clarification...

Wearing scrubs and observing surgery from the periphery =/= "scrubbing in"

Doing a full scrub (washing your hands as the surgeons do), then gowning and gloving in a sterile manner then restricting your actions to the sterile field while making sure not to contaminate yourself is "scrubbing in".

 

[ProtonatedAlchy]

my surgeon broke the rules and let me press a button once!

it was awesome

 

[el aye]

my surgeon broke the rules and let me press a button once!

it was awesome

Doc: "Hey you, see that red button?"

Proto (nervous look): "Who, me?"

Doc: "Yeah, push it."

Proto (shaking, Butters voice from South Park): "Uhh, oookay."

<Alarms activate and the OR doors get shut with metal bars>

Doc: "Oh GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?!"

Proto (still in Butters voice): "I wanna go home now." <Cries>

 

[BlueElmo]

My surgeon did actually let me help him. He told me to go buy him $5.00 worth of chicken wings and a Diet Coke from the hospital cafeteria.
Ain't much, but I felt like I helped him.

 

[MarieMarie]

Don't expect it, but.......as a pre-med I was first assist on numerous surgeries (behind the resident) while my faculty just kind of watched on. I got hands-on anatomy lessons, cut suture, retracted, whatever.......

This seems unethical.

 

[teenmachinery1]

Don't expect it, but.......as a pre-med I was first assist on numerous surgeries (behind the resident) while my faculty just kind of watched on. I got hands-on anatomy lessons, cut suture, retracted, whatever.......

holy spoons.

 

[teenmachinery1]

For clarification...

Wearing scrubs and observing surgery from the periphery =/= "scrubbing in"

Doing a full scrub (washing your hands as the surgeons do), then gowning and gloving in a sterile manner then restricting your actions to the sterile field while making sure not to contaminate yourself is "scrubbing in".

could some pre-meds pretend? Is this OK ANYMORE!!

 

[echidna]

This seems unethical.

Yeah, I've heard not to mention this kind of stuff in interviews. It can be construed as unethical and irresponsible, even if the surgeon allowed it.

I did get to scrub into a number of surgeries and did some assisting that in retrospect was way beyond anything I should have been allowed to do. On my first day. This was in a foreign country, though, and when I worked in a hospital in the US they wouldn't let me even watch a minor procedure. So don't get your hopes up OP, most surgeries are pretty boring.

 

[searun]

I've gotten to watch two surgeries.

The first was a bypass surgery to relieve chest pain. I came in around halfway through the surgery. They gave me a step stool and put it where the anesthesiologist usually sits. From there I got to see right into the chest and talk to the surgeon as he performed.

The second was some kind of spinal reconstruction surgery performed by a neurosurgeon. I came in early got to talk to the surgeon before it started. I watched to patient get prepped for surgery. And then I sat back and didn't really get to see much as far as the surgery and inside the body. I just sat around and talked to a few people and watched what went on in the operating room. I was there for 7-8 hours before I got really hungry and decided to leave for the day. Before I left, the surgeon let me stand on his stool and look inside at the spinal cord and the rods and the structures that he was inserting.

You actually stood on the surgeon's stool? Was it hard or soft?

 

[nlax30]

For clarification...

Wearing scrubs and observing surgery from the periphery =/= "scrubbing in"

Doing a full scrub (washing your hands as the surgeons do), then gowning and gloving in a sterile manner then restricting your actions to the sterile field while making sure not to contaminate yourself is "scrubbing in".

You just beat me to this.

Hell, as a med student on my OB/GYN rotation I didn't even scrub in on most of our surgeries. Half the time it was all I could do to get a decet vantage point peering over an attending, couple residents, and an intern. I was lucky if they let me throw some sutures, mostly holding retractor or cutting sutures....

For the OP: When I was in high school and then as a pre-med I saw numerous surgeries but did not scrub in on any of them. Still, I got to see a lot and they were all pretty fascinating.

 

[loveoforganic]

You actually stood on the surgeon's stool? Was it hard or soft?

Soft and rather corny - kind of like both of our puns.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

...I got to hold several patients' ankles while transferring them off the table after surgery. I must be pretty special

 

[Exalya]

When I observed a surgery, I stood next to the anesthesiologist. The surgeon was nice enough to let me shadow him, but didn't have much to say. I certainly didn't come anywhere NEAR the instruments. The anesthesiologist talked about the admissions process, residency, what he thinks of his job, etc. The surgery was not nearly as cool as Dr. Winters.

... seriously, his name was Dr. Winters, and he was very cool.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

When I observed a surgery, I stood next to the anesthesiologist. The surgeon was nice enough to let me shadow him, but didn't have much to say. I certainly didn't come anywhere NEAR the instruments. The anesthesiologist talked about the admissions process, residency, what he thinks of his job, etc. The surgery was not nearly as cool as Dr. Winters.

... seriously, his name was Dr. Winters, and he was very cool.

Was he dressed like:

 

[Omni]

A friend of mine got to hold the intestine of a patient who got wheeled in from an MVA.
Regardless of whether you're getting to participate or not, being inside an operation theater and getting to actively observe the surgey is a treat in itself.

 

[Exalya]

Was he dressed like:

Hells yes >.>

 

[Beta Cell]

My surgeon did actually let me help him. He told me to go buy him $5.00 worth of chicken wings and a Diet Coke from the hospital cafeteria.
Ain't much, but I felt like I helped him.

That surgeon must be awesome. He got you to go get him food and feel good about doing it.

 

[BlueElmo]

That surgeon must be awesome. He got you to go get him food and feel good about doing it.

Oh, that's cuz I freeloaded some wings off from the plate.

 

[Substance P]

my surgeon broke the rules and let me press a button once!

it was awesome

Ha ha. Me too. He had me turn on the CO2 pump for a laproscopic surgery.

 

[Dr McSexy]

Wow, that's a pretty aggressive treatment...

Yeah. The surgeon said it was becoming more common in patients in the late 40s - 50s age. He used the internal mammary artery for the graft. As he was doing it, he told me to get a close look at that artery, since it would be unlikely that I'd see anytime soon again.

 

[MaryLennox]

yeah, if the surgeon actually wants you to do a lot, you should be careful because it can get you or them in trouble. when i was working in a hospital, in the OR, i was allowed to watch occasionally from a safe distance but knew we (the OR 'assistants') were not supposed to be participating in any way. one time in an emergency (?) another dude who had the same lowly job as me ended up holding retractors. he bragged about it to everyone and the whole department got in trouble over it.

when i started shadowing a surgeon where i go to school, the first time he DID have me scrub in for real- I was sterile so i was allowed to be right up on the edge of the patient. (i didn't do anything real, like cutting a suture or anything.) the nurses seemed unconvinced that i should be allowed to be scrubbed in, and even though the doc insisted it was fine, i never did it again- i was too nervous. after that i stuck to watching from behind the patient's head, behind the anesthesia sheet thingy. (this is actually a great spot to get a view although you might need to stand on a couple step stools.) anyway the point is, its not worth the risk of getting yourself or someone else in trouble, i don't think. you can get a pretty good view without being scrubbed in. and if you do get to do something substantial, you probably shouldn't talk about it in interviews because they will either think you're lying/exaggerating or broke the rules, neither of which looks good.

 

[njbmd]

I can't allow anyone in my OR who hasn't taken a scrub class and who doesn't understand the concept of a sterile field and how to handle yourself around a sterile field. With my types of surgery, any breach in sterile technique could be ultimately fatal to my patient. I can't assume the risk of graft infection and possible of death of my patient for a pre-med student to have a look in an incision.

Of course, you are welcome to observe from the operating dome where you can observe directly or by camera. You can get extreme close-ups of what's going on in the incision and how the procedures are done. As an observer, you can see more than if you were actually near the surgical field and I don't have to worry about you as a source of infection for my patient.

I don't mind student observers but they can't come into the OR until they are third year medical students who have completed our scrub course and know how to handle themselves. Even in that case, there can be problems but they are minimized.. There is no way I can defend having an untrained, unlicensed person potentially infect one of my patients. Keeping those folks in the dome helps with this. My patient comes first and your observations take a "back-seat" to patient care without exception.

If one of your relatives was on the OR table, you wouldn't want them exposed to an outsider who might be an unknown source of infection.

 

[Mystikal]

hmm.. I have been able to touch the patient in a few of my shadowing experiences, including having my hand inside of them. Guess it depends on how well you know the surgeon

 

[Van Chowder]

If you were on the table, would you want a premed assisting with anything?

I know for damned sure I wouldnt.

 

[BlueElmo]

If you were on the table, would you want a premed assisting with anything?

I know for damned sure I wouldnt.

heck, I wouldn't even want a medical student assisting either,

 

[smq123]

heck, I wouldn't even want a medical student assisting either,

Unlike pre-meds, med students are formally taught how to scrub in and how to stay sterile.

Also, unlike pre-meds, med students are covered under a school's malpractice insurance policy.

This is a mandatory part of a med student's education. This is an optional part of a pre-med's experience. I would be fine with a med student assisting, but not with a pre-med.

 

[dr zaius]

I was able to scrub in on a surgery last year. I was volunteering in the ER, and a guy came in after dropping a huge piece of metal he was trying to steal on his foot causing a large cut and multiple fractures. The ortho resident came down for the consult etc. I hovered around the bay looking like a lost puppy as I usually do when something interesting shows up. I grabbed supplies for the resident (basin, etc.) and we started talking. He said the guy was going to need surgery for pins/more extensive cleaning and asked if I wanted to watch. I assumed he meant stand in the back and observe, but when I went up to the OR with he and the attending, the attending told me I should scrub in to get a better look. Needless to say I was elated. They used this crazy vacuum thing that I can't remember the name of now to clean the wound, and they actually let me clean it some. I also cut the sutures for the resident as he was sewing up the foot...pretty mundane, I know, but it was awesome to me. It was very interesting and a lot of fun.

There were only 2 nurses, the attending, the resident, myself, and the anesthesiologist in the OR. They were all super nice and explained everything as they went along.

 

[BlueElmo]

Unlike pre-meds, med students are formally taught how to scrub in and how to stay sterile.

Also, unlike pre-meds, med students are covered under a school's malpractice insurance policy.

This is a mandatory part of a med student's education. This is an optional part of a pre-med's experience. I would be fine with a med student assisting, but not with a pre-med.

I know, but still, I wouldn't feel comfortable unless it's a resident or a full doctor.

 

[caniac]

hmm.. I have been able to touch the patient in a few of my shadowing experiences, including having my hand inside of them. Guess it depends on how well you know the surgeon

I'm actually kind of bothered by that. It seems unsafe.

 

[Substance P]

I know, but still, I wouldn't feel comfortable unless it's a resident or a full doctor.

There is always going to be a first, Blue, whether that's in med school or residency. If you ask me, it's better that med students are hand held through some of the procedures, that way they will most likely be more comfortable and competent as interns/residents when they finally have a chance to get in there.

 

[FluffyRabbit]

I know, but still, I wouldn't feel comfortable unless it's a resident or a full doctor.

There is always going to be a first, Blue, whether that's in med school or residency. If you ask me, it's better that med students are hand held through some of the procedures, that way they will most likely be more comfortable and competent as interns/residents when they finally have a chance to get in there.

1+

The reason why you would be comfortable with residents is because they've been learning as medical students. If you don't allow medical students the learning experience, then residents would be no better anyway. There is only so much you can learn by staring at people do things.

 

[LingoLaine]

I shadowed an ob/gyn and got to scrub in for two c-sections. In both cases I was able to stand right next to the surgeon with a fabulous view of absolutely everything. In the second case I got to hold the retractor.

 

[MossPoh]

If I found out that they let a premed actually scrub in (not just wear scrubs, mask, etc. and stand around), I'd probably never go to that hospital again. That holds especially true if they got to touch any instrument near the patient. It is colossally risky on every level and makes me wonder what other rules they'd casually ignore. I disagree with even letting someone in there without proper informed consent.

 

[Substance P]

I'm actually kind of bothered by that. It seems unsafe.

If I found out that they let a premed actually scrub in (not just wear scrubs, mask, etc. and stand around), I'd probably never go to that hospital again. That holds especially true if they got to touch any instrument near the patient. It is colossally risky on every level and makes me wonder what other rules they'd casually ignore. I disagree with even letting someone in there without proper informed consent.

I completely agree with both of you. A pre-med is by all practical purposes just some kid who says he wants to be a doctor. If I had a penny for every time one of my pre-med buddies dropped by the wayside, because they either couldn't handle the workload, weren't interested in medicine anymore, or just found something more interesting to them, I would be a rich man. I have serious issues with any of these not even medical school ready/qualified students doing anything to the patient in an OR. I have a sneaking suspicion said patients would also have major issues with this.

 

[dr zaius]

I completely agree with both of you. A pre-med is by all practical purposes just some kid who says he wants to be a doctor. If I had a penny for every time one of my pre-med buddies dropped by the wayside, because they either couldn't handle the workload, weren't interested in medicine anymore, or just found something more interesting to them, I would be a rich man. I have serious issues with any of these not even medical school ready/qualified students doing anything to the patient in an OR. I have a sneaking suspicion said patients would also have major issues with this.

I agree as well, though I am grateful for my experience.

 

[locus000]

I shadowed an orthopedic doctor. I saw a surgery but didnt do much, just stood back and observed. I got to take part in castings so that was my hands on experience

 

[locus000]

I completely agree with both of you. A pre-med is by all practical purposes just some kid who says he wants to be a doctor. If I had a penny for every time one of my pre-med buddies dropped by the wayside, because they either couldn't handle the workload, weren't interested in medicine anymore, or just found something more interesting to them, I would be a rich man. I have serious issues with any of these not even medical school ready/qualified students doing anything to the patient in an OR. I have a sneaking suspicion said patients would also have major issues with this.

, I agree. When I am a doctor, Im not letting premed do anything but observed

 

[Food]

I am 100% positive it is illegal to allow a shadowing pre-med anywhere within 1 foot of an active surgery. I shadow a Urologist on a weekly basis. While I do get to be in the OR itself, wearing mask and all, I do not do anything (except maybe help tape up pieces of foam to hand to the surgical team to put under the patient). Soooo yah. They barely let the 4th year med students do sutures at the end.

 

[Food]

I was able to scrub in on a surgery last year. I was volunteering in the ER, and a guy came in after dropping a huge piece of metal he was trying to steal on his foot causing a large cut and multiple fractures. The ortho resident came down for the consult etc. I hovered around the bay looking like a lost puppy as I usually do when something interesting shows up. I grabbed supplies for the resident (basin, etc.) and we started talking. He said the guy was going to need surgery for pins/more extensive cleaning and asked if I wanted to watch. I assumed he meant stand in the back and observe, but when I went up to the OR with he and the attending, the attending told me I should scrub in to get a better look. Needless to say I was elated. They used this crazy vacuum thing that I can't remember the name of now to clean the wound, and they actually let me clean it some. I also cut the sutures for the resident as he was sewing up the foot...pretty mundane, I know, but it was awesome to me. It was very interesting and a lot of fun.

There were only 2 nurses, the attending, the resident, myself, and the anesthesiologist in the OR. They were all super nice and explained everything as they went along.

Yeah...that can't possibly be allowed under hospital policy. Seriously. Unless you're a med student or something.

 

[Food]

heck, I wouldn't even want a medical student assisting either,

Yeah, 4th years should be allowed to assist. Many times they are doing their elective for the specialty they will go into, and it is perfectly acceptable for them to do basic things like hold retractors or do sutures at the end.