Anyone ever had an attending push them?

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That seems very... weird.
Yes, everything starts seeming weird once attorneys are involved.

I may get busted by the mods on this one for going off topic or behaving indignantly, but then again I'm pretty much sitting in an empty apartment terrified about buying furniture or a car or anything besides food.
 
Yes, everything starts seeming weird once attorneys are involved.

I may get busted by the mods on this one for going off topic or behaving indignantly, but then again I'm pretty much sitting in an empty apartment terrified about buying furniture or a car or anything besides food.

I don't see the mods censoring you for talking about this... It seems very ON topic to me. I hope things get resolved quickly and fairly.
 
That seems very... weird.
eh, not really...credentialing gets delayed for so many reasons and then poof! everything is ok.

I had a place where i went through the credentialing process that started in April and done by end of June...pretty normal...worked there from july to Sept...then a year later, they needed me again for July...we (the hospital, my locums, and the hospitalist group) though no problem, i'm already credentialed...right? wrong (or so they told me) since I stopped working Sept of the year before, then taken me off medical staff and needed to be recredentialed even though it had been less than year...so went through the process again....then you know what i got THIS april?? a notice to say it was time for me to recredential!! HUH?? Called the office to say...uh i was just credentialed again just a few months ago...come to find out they found out that my credentials from 2015 were still valid...and that they really didn't need to do the credentialing paperwork in 2016, but they well, didn't want to tell me that (last year...and frankly i understand why they were a bit scared to tell me...it was not news i took that well first time...🙂 ...i would pay extra money for hospitals to just take the word of the last place that credentialed me...why is there not reciprocity for this crap?
 
...i would pay extra money for hospitals to just take the word of the last place that credentialed me...why is there not reciprocity for this crap?
OMFG...for realz.

I have privileges at 5 hospitals all in the same hospital system. Guess how many credentialing committees I have to go through every 2 years? 2 of the hospitals have the same committee (which I am on) but require 2 separate credentialing packets anyway. Completely ludicrous.
 
eh, not really...credentialing gets delayed for so many reasons and then poof! everything is ok.

I had a place where i went through the credentialing process that started in April and done by end of June...pretty normal...worked there from july to Sept...then a year later, they needed me again for July...we (the hospital, my locums, and the hospitalist group) though no problem, i'm already credentialed...right? wrong (or so they told me) since I stopped working Sept of the year before, then taken me off medical staff and needed to be recredentialed even though it had been less than year...so went through the process again....then you know what i got THIS april?? a notice to say it was time for me to recredential!! HUH?? Called the office to say...uh i was just credentialed again just a few months ago...come to find out they found out that my credentials from 2015 were still valid...and that they really didn't need to do the credentialing paperwork in 2016, but they well, didn't want to tell me that (last year...and frankly i understand why they were a bit scared to tell me...it was not news i took that well first time...🙂 ...i would pay extra money for hospitals to just take the word of the last place that credentialed me...why is there not reciprocity for this crap?

Liability. And it keeps the credentialing people employed.

If I have a license, I clearly graduated medical school. So why verify where I went to medical school?

Similarly, if I have a board certificate, I clearly graduated residency. They still want to confirm I went to residency. I suppose I can sort of understand the need to confirm how many of XYZ procedures I did (if I want credentialing for those procedures) and confirming I didn't have any major defects, but still.

Peer evaluations also baffle me. I had to supply the name of 3 of my colleagues last time I got credentialed somewhere. Not supervisors, colleagues. I just picked 3 of my coresidents who were my friends. The only way I can think of anyone ever failing this step is if they literally had no friends.
 
Peer evaluations also baffle me. I had to supply the name of 3 of my colleagues last time I got credentialed somewhere. Not supervisors, colleagues. I just picked 3 of my coresidents who were my friends. The only way I can think of anyone ever failing this step is if they literally had no friends.
My group's credentialing person just randomly picks 3 people from the group and sends the form pre-filled for us to sign. Obviously we can edit it if we want, but I've never needed/wanted to.
 
I started working towards credentialing for one of my positions (I officially have 3, with one having privileges at multiple hospitals) back in March/April, and still haven't gotten put in front of the credentialing committee. I'm fairly certain the guy who does that paperwork is incompetent, since I didn't seem to have any problems with my other two positions (which were done through a different credentialing person who prefilled most of the paperwork out and was competent enough to realize I was still a resident when doing the bulk of the paperwork, and thus was not yet board certified...).
 
I had a problem with credentialing paperwork from an old navy hospital when I took my current job. I emailed and called the woman in charge of that stuff many times. She was an incompetent civilian contractor, even more than I thought when I was working there. Eventually she "couldn't find" some proof of peer review stuff they required and just gave up.
I called the officer in charge of that division and laid it out.-
I completed peer review and I'm quite certain it was filed correctly as I WAS IN CHARGE OF PEER REVIEW AT THE TIME! She had months to get her act together and at least 3 phone calls, 6 messages and 10 emails, and they sent the request several times by email and fax. Her delays were about to cost me a month of lost income as the credentialing committee only meets once a month. That's not some chump change and extra vacation, it's a 3 series BMW! Not to mention all the goodwill generated by not being able to start for another month.
I was clear that if that went down, I would make a colossal headache for everyone involved up to and including contacting my congressmen and the Dept of Veterans Affairs.
Nobody wants their incompetence and that of their people brought out into the light for all to see. And causing a congressional inquiry doesn't look good on your fitness report at promotion time.
Needless to say, it was returned within 48 hours.
I had my replacement write a letter that said, "All members of the department participate in quarterly peer review that consists of ...
No issues were identified during Dr. Destriero's time here at ...".
$20 says she's still there in her windowless office misfiling another generation of officer's paperwork and not responding to official email.


--
Il Destriero
 
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I don't see the mods censoring you for talking about this... It seems very ON topic to me. I hope things get resolved quickly and fairly.
From the credentialing coordinator: "We received some concerns regarding your training specifically, interpersonal relationships and communication skills, and professional attitude/ethics." Although I never had any bad evals in this area.
 
From the credentialing coordinator: "We received some concerns regarding your training specifically, interpersonal relationships and communication skills, and professional attitude/ethics." Although I never had any bad evals in this area.

Perhaps this might be a good situation for a lawyer. This is ridiculous.
 
From the credentialing coordinator: "We received some concerns regarding your training specifically, interpersonal relationships and communication skills, and professional attitude/ethics." Although I never had any bad evals in this area.
tell her the truth...and show her the police report (all "off the record" of course).
 
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That person is a cog. You need to meet with the committee chair.

This. (Speaking as a cog.) When reading your account initially, I was ambivalent about making the police report--now I'm very glad you have it. If you continue to have trouble with credentialing, I wonder if perhaps a call to the Risk Management office could help. They don't want the hospital to get sued for any reason, and they might be able to arrange for some sort of mediation. Also, as a residency program graduate, you should have received a final letter confirming that you are competent for independent practice. If the issues being raised for credentialing aren't raised in the letter, an argument could be made that they shouldn't affect your appointment. Final thought, you should have been receiving Milestones assessments twice a year since July 2015. If you have access to those you would have documentation that no professionalism issues had been raised and the current action is retribution.
 
This. (Speaking as a cog.) When reading your account initially, I was ambivalent about making the police report--now I'm very glad you have it. If you continue to have trouble with credentialing, I wonder if perhaps a call to the Risk Management office could help. They don't want the hospital to get sued for any reason, and they might be able to arrange for some sort of mediation. Also, as a residency program graduate, you should have received a final letter confirming that you are competent for independent practice. If the issues being raised for credentialing aren't raised in the letter, an argument could be made that they shouldn't affect your appointment. Final thought, you should have been receiving Milestones assessments twice a year since July 2015. If you have access to those you would have documentation that no professionalism issues had been raised and the current action is retribution.
Thanks for the response and your efforts. There seems to be a very sophisticated level of passive-aggression at play.
 
A familiar sdn tale: I've been on a rotation for the last few months with an attending who yells, verbally berates me, is quick to point out my mistakes, gives me more than the usual resident's share of work assignments, and is generally miserable to work with. Thirty or more emails per day, even when she is not the attending (although she is service chief) needing status updates on cases. It seems most other people at work have at least peripherally experienced her anger outbursts. She is sometimes overheard at work yelling at her husband or other family members on the phone. I'm not training in psychiatry, but mental illness such as personality disorder is definitely in my differential diagnosis as an explanation for her behavior. Maybe she has some complex personal/family issues going on, who knows. I figured I'd just suck it up for the short term and do my best to react professionally to whatever insults she would throw my way, and at least appear to be taking her feedback into consideration.

But, she recently confronted me in the hallway to ask about a case (it turned out to be another resident's case), which escalated to ranting and posturing about... well frankly after about two minutes into her monologue with her face centimeters from mine, I can hardly recall anything she actually said. I must have tuned her out. Realizing this was getting nowhere and we both needed to cool off, I stepped back from her, at which point she pushed me pretty hard for trying to get away. I told her that I thought pushing me was inappropriate. She then seemed to get even more angry, brought me into a room and shut the door, when she continued to berate me, and after nodding my head at her for a few minutes, I attempted to leave at which point she blocked me from the door, holding the door shut, insisting she finish her point. She pushed me away from the door. When she wasn't as close to the door, I eventually walked out, and she followed me down the hallway and continued yelling at me at my desk. This is all witnessed by various people at various times during the argument. Oh and by the way this was in academic offices in the main hospital but not anywhere near patients.

So far I haven't found any threads on sdn describing anything like this, but I'm sure there are some of you that have heard stories about hospital employees being physically aggressive, and I'm not talking about the circumstance of a surgeon hitting the hand of a resident surgeon who is fumbling up in the surgical field. This had nothing to do with a patient emergency. What was the outcome, did the person who reported the aggression have any negative consequences? I'm sure a lot of this stuff goes unreported.

I know the OP is already a few months old by now, but in case anyone else faces this situation, I thought I should weigh in.

When this went beyond verbally abusive and reached the point of physical contact, you absolutely had (and still have) every to involve law enforcement. If you have at least one or more witnesses, your case would be incredibly strong for battery. (A resulting injury is not needed to establish battery). If there are security cameras in that hospital hallway (and there's a good chance there are) then your case just got even stronger.

I put up with a tremendous amount of crap from superiors while in training, as did most of us. And often people in that position (anyone bullied or abused, verbally or physically) fear even greater retribution if they speak out. But it my case, it never reached the physical. Only you can decide what action to take, but if I was a resident, and this happened to me today and I had a witness (especially if security cameras), I would strongly consider making that phone call to have an officer come see me, and file a report. Then, and only then, once the report is made, would I contact my residency director and hospital officials. But it's up to you. You certainly have the right to remain quiet also, if you choose.
 
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I have been in this situation before. You will have to report it. There have been a long line of people before you this woman did this to, and there will be a long line of people after you. If you don't it will escalate and lead to physical assault and abuse.

I have been violently assaulted and attacked in a hospital, and now I have serious neurological trauma to this day because I didn't stop it at the time.
 
After reading all this stuff, all I can say is I am so glad I did residency in Lubbock, TX (shameless plug) .

Small town, nothing to do but great attendings, awesome support staff and the only pushing is done on the yearly team building retreat when 35 of us had to get on an uneven board and balance it out..... fun times
 
After reading all this stuff, all I can say is I am so glad I did residency in Lubbock, TX (shameless plug) .

Small town, nothing to do but great attendings, awesome support staff and the only pushing is done on the yearly team building retreat when 35 of us had to get on an uneven board and balance it out..... fun times

community training is frequently underappreciated
 
This thread has my blood boiling.

It's been quite an interesting drama to read, unfortunately at your expense OP. If you can, keep us updated on the credentialling situation. I also agree that a lawyer might potentially be helpful in this situation, which sucks, seems like it could be expensive.
 
All good points. To recap the events until now... I got pushed by an attending, told my PD/chair immediately and requested to change services, filed a police report, met with PD/chair again to be told I could not have time off and could not be transferred, returned to her service for a few days and told another resident on the service, then was dismissed home (first for a few days, now a week) because my PD heard that I was talking about it. I contacted HR only once I was sure that this was being entirely mishandled by my PD and chair and that I would potentially be disciplined. Because as someone mentioned, it is ridiculous that an attending can be physically aggressive with a resident and not be suspended, while the resident gets suspended for talking about it.

Amongst the other things I am preparing for in my return meeting are that they will force me to sign something like a confidentiality agreement, or some other disciplinary document that retrospectively constructs a pattern of unprofessional behavior prior to the incident that would justify disciplinary action such as probation. If you haven't heard of something called a "peer review" and possible abuse of this legal process in hospital settings, I suggest you look it up.

So if I fall off the radar at some point, you can assume that confidentiality agreement has been signed but at least I have kept my job...

You should not sign anything in the meeting if possible. If they ask you to sign something, you should request 48 hours to review it. Even if it looks benign, request 24-48 hours to review it. You should not sign away your right to grieve whatever decision they are making, speak to anyone, etc. If they threaten you -- i.e. "if you don't sign this, you're fired", you'll need to decide what to do. I'd still push for 24 hours to review it. It they threaten you like that, they are probably in the wrong and trying to make you make a bad decision. But if they follow through with their threat, although you'd be "right", you'll have a long legal battle ahead of you.

I quoted these for a reason. What was said here about meetings and signing documents, doesn't come up enough in these situations.

To summarize, based on what I have read in this thread:
1) Contact police immediately.
2) Obtain attorney.
3) Gather evidence.
4) Don't talk to ANYONE working at the hospital about ANY troubles. I would say not to talk about anything beyond pleasantries at work as a general rule.
5) You can talk to HR, PD, APDs, and Chiefs, but they're sort of like the police. You would think they'd be on your side, until they're not.
6) Carefully consider what you sign. Keep track of all meetings, notes, etc.
7) Never fight the man.

With only months to graduation, the program actually has little incentive to keep you, as it would be less disruptive to the program to let you go and to only have to pull on the schedule a few months. You don't become more invincible the closer to graduation you are. If I had been assaulted, I would have done steps 1-4, because you can do that very *quietly*, and as a form of ass covering you have to do, in case the batterer does similar ass covering for their wrongdoing. I likely would have made it to 5), but it would depend on so many factors. I would make it clear that I thought the program should be aware of it for their own sake. That besides a duty to report, I was only interested in moving forward with my training, smiley face intact! In some sense, I would have reported it to cover my ass, not make waves. How to do one vs the other, well, residency isn't really about winning.

NDA signed under distress can't be seen as valid.

Pretty much all NDAs are signed while under distress. Duress OTOH, that's a legal thing. By the time there's an NDA involved, at least one party has a lawyer, and the thing is probably going to stick. Assume all NDAs will be valid, no matter how much distress you're feeling. Hence why I quoted aPD's advice about really thinking twice about what you sign. And my own advice that you shouldn't sign something like that without having a lawyer of your own read it first.

I don't see how the OP would be violating this NDA we're all presuming exists if she doesn't reveal any identifying information about the program.

Ask a lawyer how much they think you should say about your NDA after you get one. Less than you think.

For folks not in the know, "NDA" is "nondisclosure agreement". When you hear that a "confidential settlement" was achieved, an NDA was signed. That means, break it, and the settlement is void (and you have to give the money back). Totally unrelated, but, near the end of the movie "Spy Game", there is a scene about signing the NDA.

Worse than just giving money back, is that it opens you up to all sorts of legal action being taken against you. You could be sued, for sure. Plus a lot of NDAs are bidirectional, which is why they're not just something you sign under distress, but to make some distress go away. Without the NDA the other party can continue slandering you.

What irks me is that the OP is, presumably, new to these new, miserable experiences. As such, s/he is being bullied - as if his/her program is being SO magnanimous, that they would "let" him/her go with the NDA, when the OP is 100% in the right. In reality, they KNOW they are wrong, but they are, in fact, bullying the OP into accepting it. However, since the OP is "green" at this, s/he doesn't know how strong is his/her position. It is unfortunate that the OP didn't have a strong orator in his/her corner, such as an attorney, or, to be honest, someone like me, who would have leveled the playing field. It's confusing to be told you're wrong, when YOU are the one wronged.

This long screed is just my opinion. However, if the OP can just "get the hell out of Dodge", I'll count that as a "win".

I get it's your opinion. Sadly, the OP was never in a strong position, because they are a resident. "They can always hurt you more." An attorney in your corner is like getting some lubricant to go with the total ass-****ing. It's not for nothing, clearly.

Unless you're sleeping with your patients or doing drugs/alcohol at work, losing your license is almost impossible. Gross negligence can lead to limitations on your license, but even that is really unusual in most states.

A board report is stressful, but mostly it costs you time and money to respond to and nothing comes of it.

Depends on what type of license you currently hold and what state you're in. Granted, you're not wrong that it's difficult to lose your full license. But you do overlook that anything mental health related can lead to onerous consequences for keeping your license, and that isn't very unusual at all.

If a program or hospital really is malignant and looking to slander you, tying whatever papertrail they've invented about your "professionalism" and "teamplayer-ness" or similar garbage to what I read OP was dealing with, to claims about your mental health, well, that could dovetail well for them. People think because of the ADA it would be difficult to use your health to fire you, and it's not. Or that it would be difficult for a board to sanction you or make it almost impossible to keep your license, but it's not. That sort of mental-health fueled board stuff can follow you to every state you go to. Or not. It depends where.

More than one doc on this board has said to beware if your program wants to send you to a psychiatrist or occ med for that kind of thing.

Maybe all the rest of the board trouble that comes from what Raryn has mentioned ain't no thing like all of the above. I could believe that. OTOH, if it's anything at all like the witch hunt that mental health allegations can ensue, it can be more than a hoop jump formality.
 
Lastly, I am very sad to see that the OP had troubles with credentialing.

Oddly enough, sometimes when you get a lawyer involved, it doesn't always end up antagonizing the hospital. At least not in any way that affects you moving forward. Timed correctly, and you might find that any paperwork or boxchecking regarding you happens in a timely fashion.
 
Lastly, I am very sad to see that the OP had troubles with credentialing.

Oddly enough, sometimes when you get a lawyer involved, it doesn't always end up antagonizing the hospital. At least not in any way that affects you moving forward. Timed correctly, and you might find that any paperwork or boxchecking regarding you happens in a timely fashion.

If you are involving an attorney in a thoughtful way, this means that the hospital legal department takes interest. While the boxchecking administrative drones might be tempted to hassle you or foot-drag to inflict their petty revenge because they have nothing better to do, counsel usually has an acute sense of their time being wasted by nonsense and would prefer to get back to doing something else. The office morlocks can ignore you all day, they can't ignore Ms. P. O'd., Esquire from the top floor when she tells them to knock it off and do their jobs.
 
Just got my notice from the last hospital that my unrestricted credentials are approved... finally it is over! Not before I was bombarded with email requests from them for my version of the story.

There is a lot of wisdom (and misguidance) embedded in this thread, but I would only like to add that the most important factor in my successful transition was the support and understanding of my current employers. I'm very grateful.

Also, thanks to the SDN community for your comments. I appreciated reading them and understanding their relevance to my situation as well as others who are enduring similarly oppressive environments.
 
Just got my notice from the last hospital that my unrestricted credentials are approved... finally it is over! Not before I was bombarded with email requests from them for my version of the story.

There is a lot of wisdom (and misguidance) embedded in this thread, but I would only like to add that the most important factor in my successful transition was the support and understanding of my current employers. I'm very grateful.

Also, thanks to the SDN community for your comments. I appreciated reading them and understanding their relevance to my situation as well as others who are enduring similarly oppressive environments.
Awesome news!

Also, now that you have a job with unrestricted privileges this shouldn't ever happen again.
 
Congrats. If you're willing at some point, you might share what advice you found useful.

If I could share one more piece of unsolicited advice, you need to stay in this job for a few years. Build a new track record.
That's definitely in the game plan.

Most important advice: Immediate police report, lawyer-up earlier than you might otherwise be inclined to despite your financial restrictions as a resident (worth every penny), keep quiet in the short term (find an outlet), keep your eye on the prize (escape to a better life), maintain hope.
 
That's definitely in the game plan.

Most important advice: Immediate police report, lawyer-up earlier than you might otherwise be inclined to despite your financial restrictions as a resident (worth every penny), keep quiet in the short term (find an outlet), keep your eye on the prize (escape to a better life), maintain hope.

That is awsome news! Congratulations!
 
Hello friends...

I've been thinking of you all recently. It was obviously a harrowing experience for me, an entertaining experience for others, but thank goodness I was able to communicate with you all... it was a privilege.

My life is perfectly boring these days.
 
Hello friends...

I've been thinking of you all recently. It was obviously a harrowing experience for me, an entertaining experience for others, but thank goodness I was able to communicate with you all... it was a privilege.

My life is perfectly boring these days.
Great to hear ur doing well now
 
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