Anyone get in without any volunteering?

[vmc303]

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I'm finishing up my pre-reqs this semester as a post-bac student. I'm also working part time and studying for the April MCAT, which doesn't leave a whole lot of time for volunteer work before I apply this summer. Does anyone ever get in with *zero* volunteer work whatsoever? I imagine it might be somewhat common among people who are out of college, since work tends to eat up a lot of the free time people usually have as undergrads.

 

[emack]

I got in without volunteering. I had pretty good numbers, though. And good LORs.

Depends on the school-- they all say volunteering is important, but it's not always a hard & fast requirement. If you make up for a lack of volunteer experience with stellar qualifications in other areas, and have some good answers when/if they ask about it at interviews, you might do fine.

At the interview for the school where I matriculated, they asked about my lack of volunteer experience. I pointed out that my schedule had been pretty full with school & work, that I valued my personal free time very highly, and that if they didn't let me in this year, I'd definitely go out & do as much volunteer as they wanted me to do to prove I was serious... But (I pointed out) isn't that kind of volunteer work for the wrong reasons?

I still consider it kind of a fluke that I made it in, though. Clearly slipped through the cracks... 😉

 

[vmc303]

I got in without volunteering. I had pretty good numbers, though. And good LORs.

Depends on the school-- they all say volunteering is important, but it's not always a hard & fast requirement. If you make up for a lack of volunteer experience with stellar qualifications in other areas, and have some good answers when/if they ask about it at interviews, you might do fine.

At the interview for the school where I matriculated, they asked about my lack of volunteer experience. I pointed out that my schedule had been pretty full with school & work, that I valued my personal free time very highly, and that if they didn't let me in this year, I'd definitely go out & do as much volunteer as they wanted me to do to prove I was serious... But (I pointed out) isn't that kind of volunteer work for the wrong reasons?

I still consider it kind of a fluke that I made it in, though. Clearly slipped through the cracks... 😉

Great answer. I feel like interviewers who appreciate that kind of honesty would be few and far between though. "I could've volunteered, but that would mean cutting my sleep down to 4 hours per night instead of 6 and killing what little semblance of a life I had left" probably isn't what they want to hear.

Still, good to know that accumulating 2,000 hours of volunteer work isn't absolutely essential to becoming a physician these days.

 

[riceman04]

I got in without volunteering. I had pretty good numbers, though. And good LORs.

Depends on the school-- they all say volunteering is important, but it's not always a hard & fast requirement. If you make up for a lack of volunteer experience with stellar qualifications in other areas, and have some good answers when/if they ask about it at interviews, you might do fine.

At the interview for the school where I matriculated, they asked about my lack of volunteer experience. I pointed out that my schedule had been pretty full with school & work, that I valued my personal free time very highly, and that if they didn't let me in this year, I'd definitely go out & do as much volunteer as they wanted me to do to prove I was serious... But (I pointed out) isn't that kind of volunteer work for the wrong reasons?

I still consider it kind of a fluke that I made it in, though. Clearly slipped through the cracks... 😉

I have to agree with vmc...that is a great honest answer...congrats 😀

 

[Rafa]

I got in without volunteering. I had pretty good numbers, though. And good LORs.

Depends on the school-- they all say volunteering is important, but it's not always a hard & fast requirement. If you make up for a lack of volunteer experience with stellar qualifications in other areas, and have some good answers when/if they ask about it at interviews, you might do fine.

At the interview for the school where I matriculated, they asked about my lack of volunteer experience. I pointed out that my schedule had been pretty full with school & work, that I valued my personal free time very highly, and that if they didn't let me in this year, I'd definitely go out & do as much volunteer as they wanted me to do to prove I was serious... But (I pointed out) isn't that kind of volunteer work for the wrong reasons?

I still consider it kind of a fluke that I made it in, though. Clearly slipped through the cracks... 😉

I'm totally going to try this.

 

[Elastase]

I'm finishing up my pre-reqs this semester as a post-bac student. I'm also working part time and studying for the April MCAT, which doesn't leave a whole lot of time for volunteer work before I apply this summer. Does anyone ever get in with *zero* volunteer work whatsoever? I imagine it might be somewhat common among people who are out of college, since work tends to eat up a lot of the free time people usually have as undergrads.

IMHO there is ALWAYS time to volunteer. Either tutoring, clinical, etc. You have to take breaks sometimes from work and studying. You still have around 6 months till you apply, try to find something that interests you.

If you look at the MSAR, most schools have very high % of accepted ppl that have volunteered/community-service. Why would you put your application at any kind of disadvantage? I would highly suggest volunteering, it might even give you a different perspective for when you write you personal statement, and gives you something else to talk about during your interview. Good luck!

 

[Wednesday]

If you're a non-trad post-bacc the not volunteering thing might hurt you. The problem with being a non-trad is that you have to really, really convince them that you made an informed decision when you decided to pursue medicine because this is what they tend to doubt. Now, if you have other health care related activities (like work experiences) it shouldn't matter. I think it's less about the spirit of volunteering and more about proving you know what you're getting into (which, frankly is impossible until you're actually into it, but that's beside the point).

 

[Bernito]

I had no clinical volunteering on my applications. I have gotten interviews, b/c I have good stats, (biomedical) research, pubs and non-clinical volunteering. But even with these different things all my interviews have been focused on why I didn't have clinical experience, the question being how could I be sure I wanted to go into medicine. For some reason clinical volunteering is the end all for confirming this desire. (Part of it is I think they want you to know that you're going to have to do some nasty stuff like clean up ****).

Well anyway I got smart after a couple interviews and started some clinical volunteering. Now I can answer the question the way they want me to and I've finally had a chance to talk about other things. So you probably can do it but overall it wouldn't be wise. If I were you I would start volunteering at a hospital right after the MCAT, then you would still have time to get ~2 months reported on your application + more by the time you interview.

 

[psipsina]

I got in without any volunteer work after highschool. Between my research and my workstudy and my schoolwork, the only time I had to give to volunteer work was the little bit of time my husband and I had together during college. When I was asked about why I hadn't volunteered I explained that I had decided to prioritize my time with my husband to keep our connection and relationship strong. I did however, have a ton of clinical experience as I worked as a clinical research coordinator in an abdominal transplant unit where the majority of my job was patient contact and doctor shadowing, I just got paid for it. So its clear that I really understand what I am getting into and have really thought it thru, especially when after almost every clinic on of the doctors I worked for would turn to me and say "So you're sure you want to do this?/?"

 

[roboyce]

I did not have any of the typical volunteer/community services activities on my application, although one could make a strong argument that some of my previous employment would qualify as "community service." At one of my interviews, I was asked to outline my volunteer experiences since high school. I told the interviewer that I was not significantly involved in any service group or program and that this area was a real weakness of my application. He asked if I thought these activities were important to becoming a physician. I told him that in my mind, it was not so much the activities themselves, but rather the values (selflessness, compassion, professionalism) that were essential. I then discussed how I had demonstrated these qualities in the other parts of my application. Granted, I had some unique experiences that put me in a postion to make such a statement, but I still stand by it. If you can show (1) your clear commitment to medicine and (2) your "human" values through other activites in which you demonstrate a true passion, then I think you can get by without the X hours of volunteering in the hospital. Just my opinion...and yes, I got into that school.

 

[87138]

Would being an unpaid TA for a class (actually, two classes) count as "volunteering?"

 

[Rafa]

Would being an unpaid TA for a class (actually, two classes) count as "volunteering?"

Yeah. Pretty much anything you do for people other than yourself and your friends that doesn't involve money (entering your hands or bank account) is volunteer work. Obviously, running drugs for your professors wouldn't be the kind of volunteer work you'd mention on an app, but...you get the idea. 👍

 

[drmota]

i did a bunch of volunteer work in high school. none in college.
-mota

 

[gary5]

You should quit your part-time job immediately and start volunteering at least 4 hr/week. I know a guy who had exceptional scores and didn't get interviews because he didn't volunteer. Here's how they see it: If you're not interested in working with patients, then you shouldn't be a doctor, no matter how good your scores are.

 

[2010MD]

I'm finishing up my pre-reqs this semester as a post-bac student. I'm also working part time and studying for the April MCAT, which doesn't leave a whole lot of time for volunteer work before I apply this summer. Does anyone ever get in with *zero* volunteer work whatsoever? I imagine it might be somewhat common among people who are out of college, since work tends to eat up a lot of the free time people usually have as undergrads.

This is exactly the position I was in last year. I think the key is having clinical exposure and/or community service experience that involves working directly with people, regardless of whether it's paid or unpaid. I didn't have any volunteer experience in the strict sense of the term, but I my college summer experiences all involved community/public service and my job allows me to gain additional (paid) clinical exposure. If your job allows you to have direct contact with patients or any kind of community in need (e.g. tutoring inner-city kids, working with the homeless) I wouldn't worry about whether it qualifies as volunteer experience or not.

If your job doesn't allow you this kind of experience, I think you can probably wait until after the MCAT to start volunteering -- though I would suggest taking on as many hours as you reasonably can at that point. I started volunteering in the ER after I had submitted my AMCAS, so it didn't appear on my primary application. I received several interviews (and 4 acceptances so far!) and for the schools that were really interested in clinical volunteer experience, I was able to talk about it by the time I got to the interview stage... or if you're worried that a lack of volunteer experience will prevent you from getting interviews, you can always just send an update with your secondaries.

You should quit your part-time job immediately and start volunteering at least 4 hr/week. I know a guy who had exceptional scores and didn't get interviews because he didn't volunteer. Here's how they see it: If you're not interested in working with patients, then you shouldn't be a doctor, no matter how good your scores are.

This is ridiculous. If you're supporting yourself in addition to paying for a post-bac program, it's not necessarily a matter of not being interested in working with patients. Some us actually have to work, and don't have the luxury of allocating all our non-studying hours to unpaid ECs. Schools I've interviewed with have been pretty understanding of this as well -- simply saying "I really needed a job" has satisfied many an interviewer asking why I've made the choices I have.

 

[Shredder]

hey i got accepted at ohio state without any volunteering. i did shadowing for a summer though. no other shadowing or volunteering aside from that. interviewed at penn and columbia which were my top 2, will find out in march and let you know then. prolly wont get in though, best to stay pessimistic

i think the idea is to interact with patients and see everything up close and personal. so you know what youre getting into and all. that seems fair enough. you wouldnt want ppl changing their minds and quitting med school halfway through. as for strictly volunteering though i think its silly. it has no relation to medicine. medicines a career not social work.

 

[dr_ray]

It all really depends on your understanding of volunteering and how doctors-in-training can help people and what you get out of the experience.

I never did any "volunteering" in the traditional sense-- candy-striping, free tutoring, soup kitchens. Even so, I still had medically relevant and service activites to discuss at my interviews.

For example, I donated my time to run a few organizations at my school. Otherwise, I've tutored for pay, shadowed physicians, and studied different medical modalities. I didn't volunteer because my applications to do so didn't get processed until 6 months to a year later, by which time, I was already working 3 part-time jobs. And I wasn't about to quit the jobs becuase I needed the money, you know? 🙂

Even though none of this work was "altruistic" like in traditional options to volunteer, some schools still invited me to interview and were happy to hear about my experiences.

I think even if an applicant did any old thing -- tutor, technician, waiter (my 3 jobs)-- which has little to do with medicine or volunteering, the important thing is to get in touch with the service aspect of the activity. Doctors, like everyone else, have a specific body of knowledge that they use to perform a service. So while I didn't rake in the volunteering hours, I did gain a good understanding of what it means to serve my community. And that will be useful to me as a physician and a person.

So now the results... despite sub-par stats, I did manage to snag 6 interviews and 4 acceptances. Who woulda thunk it 😕 I'm just very grateful to the powers that be.

Hope that helps. Good luck to you!

 

[arkroyal]

i only volunteered at a major hospital during my high school yrs which i did mention in my personal statement. but i am an emt which greatly makes up for my lack of volunteering.

 

[Mr.Bip]

You should quit your part-time job immediately and start volunteering at least 4 hr/week. I know a guy who had exceptional scores and didn't get interviews because he didn't volunteer. Here's how they see it: If you're not interested in working with patients, then you shouldn't be a doctor, no matter how good your scores are.

The above post is a very black and white view that the OP shouldn't become too obsessed with. Any detailed search of the applicants to get into top 10 schools on mdapplicants.com will show you that there's a *big* diversity of students that get into good schools. Everyone has their own portfolio. Volunteer experience is something which can add an attractive facet to your file, but it isn't the only way to appeal to an admissions committee.

I haven't done very much volunteer work at all - some in high school, little in college. I have been a very dedicated musician throughout college though, and only recently really decided to go to medical school. I worked very hard to write convincing essays and make a strong case for myself at interviews, and I think it's worked out all right, though who knows where I willl eventually get in. I have gotten into one school already, so rest assured that volunteer experience isn't the only way to get your foot in the door.

One of my pet peeves is super-ambitious pre-meds volunteering all over the place because they want to get into a good school, not because the activity means a lot to them. I know this isn't always the case, but I know quite a few people who get their names on the rosters of groups, and then work hard to do as little as necessary to stay a member. Please don't do this! If you volunteer for something, make sure it *means* something to you - that is the most significant kind of activity, something that you can talk about passionately to other people and convince them of the importance of your interests.

 

[p00psicleSTICK]

I've only had 1 volunteer work and interviewers didn't ask why I only had 1 volunteer activity, rather they wanted to know about the experience in depth. They seemed pleased when I told them about it in detail w/ my honest thoughts and what I learned from it.

I think the most important thing in the process is to have solid numbers and just enough attractive ECs to get yourself an interview whether you've got volunteering or not...

 

[adcomm]

this year I have seen multiple applicants with otherwise great credentials take a HUGE hit for having no shadowing or volunteer experience. pair it with an even remotely wishywashy "why I want to be a doctor" and it's devestating, plain and simple.

 

[jackbauer]

i understand if you have to work to support yourself along with studying etc. that it can seem hard to volunteer... but there are free clinics, schools, hospitals etc. everywhere looking for kind-hearted pre-meds to give a little time and help out with things. even just an hour a week helps you feel good, improves your application, improves society if you want to think philosophically... and let's be honest, who doesn't have an hour a week? that's a pretty minimal time committment. the more the better

 

[gujuDoc]

Hey in regards to shadowing.....

I just wanted to say that if you are at a university strongly affiliated with a medical school, it is my sincere advice that you go to department pages for various medical school faculty and email them politely asking if they'd allow students to shadow them and that you were interested in doing such. I have done this for my student organization (AED) and the faculty here are more then welcoming to premeds spending some time observing them. They'll answer any questions you have for them and what not.

Medical mission trips are another good way to get medical exposure as so are programs like Reach Out and Read (national program to read to children in waiting rooms).

Other ways to volunteer besides clinical volunteering include teaching in some capacity such as tutoring inner city kids or at a local elementary school being in peer outreach groups or so forth. Peer outreach groups may be clinical or nonclinical.

Also, other volunteer opportunities can come from volunteering with a local crisis center near you.

Just some ideas.

 

[yanky5]

Definitely volunteer. I also heard of people who didn't get in because they did not volunteer (even though they had excellent credentials). EVERYONE who you are going to be interviewed with will have volunteered so you will stick out like a sore thumb in a bad way.

 

[badlydrawnvik]

i also volunteered in high school, but not college. however, i did shadow during summers of college.

 

[NonTradMed]

This is my personal experience: I volunteered throughout high and college and beyond. When I decided to attend med school, I got a position as a hospital tutor (as a volunteer). It was fantastic experience because I came into direct contact with patients. The interviewer I had at my top choice made a big point of asking about my experiences there and was very impressed. He mentioned that it sounded like I had a lot of responsibility for someone who was volunteering and I agreed since there were others who were paid for the job I was doing for free. At the end of interview, when I was asking him about the admissions process, he said interview at the school was important and he said mine was a good example of a great interview. I think the fact that I showed him some real clinical experience helped to to get me in despite having only middling numbers (as compared to everyone else they interviewed).

Now, not all my friends who got into med school volunteered as much as I did. One friend got into Harvard with almost no service work but she did have great stats (40+/4.0, tough major, top school, research). Another friend also had good stats (30+/3.5+) but very little in terms of volunteering OR clinical experience. She had a harder time getting in, in part because she applied to only top med schools, but after a year spent teaching kids and applying to lower tiered schools, she made it in.

Just from these and other friends' experiences, I have come to the conclusion, barring great stats for the school, getting clinical experience OR volunteering is a must. As in, if stats won't pull you in, then you have to make sure you have everything else they look for in a candidate, including having the clinical experience. Volunteering is not as important (in my mind) as getting some experience in a hospital setting. But doing clinical work would help adcoms to see that you didn't just pick medicine for superficial reasons (income, 'helping people', etc) but that you know the actual environment you would be working in. Volunteering allows you to show compassion, or at least experience it. Both help you to make better docs and/or get a better feel of what it's like to be a physician. Although not doing one or the other is not going to bar you from med school, it may put you at a 'slight' disadvantage. Since the OP said they were busy with work etc, adcoms may give some latitude for real life intruding. But I highly suggest that unless the OPs stats are very good, get some hospital volunteering under your belt if you don't already have clinical experience.

 

[MedicineNutt]

I got in without volunteering. I had pretty good numbers, though. And good LORs.

Depends on the school-- they all say volunteering is important, but it's not always a hard & fast requirement. If you make up for a lack of volunteer experience with stellar qualifications in other areas, and have some good answers when/if they ask about it at interviews, you might do fine.

At the interview for the school where I matriculated, they asked about my lack of volunteer experience. I pointed out that my schedule had been pretty full with school & work, that I valued my personal free time very highly, and that if they didn't let me in this year, I'd definitely go out & do as much volunteer as they wanted me to do to prove I was serious... But (I pointed out) isn't that kind of volunteer work for the wrong reasons?

I still consider it kind of a fluke that I made it in, though. Clearly slipped through the cracks... 😉

smart answer, but at the same time if i was an adcom member hearing this i would get the wrong impression to that answer. If you don't want to volunteer in your free time, why do you want to become a doctor? if someone dosent want to delegate their time to help out their community, then choosing to become a physician will be a totally wrong field for you! kinda sounds like those who choose medicine choose it for money nowadays...i understand it's a business, but it should also be a business for the people rather than because of the people...

thats how i see it...nothing wrong with that answer...that was a very clever answer btw!

 

[ND2005]

smart answer, but at the same time if i was an adcom member hearing this i would get the wrong impression to that answer. If you don't want to volunteer in your free time, why do you want to become a doctor? if someone dosent want to delegate their time to help out their community, then choosing to become a physician will be a totally wrong field for you! kinda sounds like those who choose medicine choose it for money nowadays...i understand it's a business, but it should also be a business for the people rather than because of the people...

thats how i see it...nothing wrong with that answer...that was a very clever answer btw!

I just think there are a lot of ways to use your free time; volunteering isn't the only "good" one. What about service to your school community (Clubs, activities, fundraisers)? What about service to your dorm/frat (freshman orientation, frat president, other leadership positions) What about academic "service" (TA'ing, tutoring, research assistant)?

Just because an activity doesn't fit into the rigid "clinical volunteering" box doesn't mean it's not worthwhile, and it's frustrating that adcoms seem to not acknowledge this.

I'd say I did a good amount of stuff in school -- I certainly didn't just sit on my ass and get drunk all the time -- but b/c I don't have the typical activities, I get busted and told I don't have a dedication to service and/or medicine.

 

[gujuDoc]

Emack brings up a good point. What is the point of volunteering if people will be doing it to meet some sort of requirement. It only really is meaningful if you learn something from it. For me, I enjoy working with kids and volunteering with clinics to read to kids is fun. I think tutoring would be fun if it was at an hour feasable with my class schedule. But other people show their dedication to medicine through working in clinical areas such as EMT or CNA type of work or other places.

 

[MedicineNutt]

I just think there are a lot of ways to use your free time; volunteering isn't the only "good" one. What about service to your school community (Clubs, activities, fundraisers)? What about service to your dorm/frat (freshman orientation, frat president, other leadership positions) What about academic "service" (TA'ing, tutoring, research assistant)?

Just because an activity doesn't fit into the rigid "clinical volunteering" box doesn't mean it's not worthwhile, and it's frustrating that adcoms seem to not acknowledge this.

I'd say I did a good amount of stuff in school -- I certainly didn't just sit on my ass and get drunk all the time -- but b/c I don't have the typical activities, I get busted and told I don't have a dedication to service and/or medicine.

it doesnt have to be actual volunteering w/o pay...it just has to be something you want to do and are interested !!! get out there, the world needs you...that is only if you want to be there !! just remember who you are serving and do everything from the heart...it doesnt have to be somethin routinely highly looked upon by the adcoms...do somethin unique--something ppl dont usually take part in--something that makes you who you are!! you can explain those kind of experiences a lot better than "I was able to witness clinical care in the ER" or "I tutored little people to read"

 

[gujuDoc]

it doesnt have to be actual volunteering w/o pay...it just has to be something you want to do and are interested !!! get out there, the world needs you...that is only if you want to be there !! just remember who you are serving and do everything from the heart...it doesnt have to be somethin routinely highly looked upon by the adcoms...do somethin unique--something ppl dont usually take part in--something that makes you who you are!! you can explain those kind of experiences a lot better than "I was able to witness clinical care in the ER" or "I tutored little people to read"

This is a good point that I agree with a lot.

 

[lilnoelle]

I got in with virtually no clinical experience but I think I'm a rarity. All I did was a little shadowing (a week with a surgeon, a week with a General practitioner, and a few days with an ophthalmologist) I'm a nontraditional student with two young children so on top of taking care of my kids and working full time, I just haven't had time. My interviewers all asked me about my lack of clinical experience and I explained but also said that I have a good deal of real life experience with medicine. My husband works with a group of ophthalmologists and so I spend some time at his work and with the doctor's he works with. Having two children also gave me an "inside" view of an obstetrician's work. I also have spent quite a few hours "observing" a pediatrician because my first child had frequent ear infections.
I don't think I would have gotten in because on top of all of this, my numbers aren't fantastic. I had great LOR's though. (28N MCAT, 3.85 GPA) However, I had a FANTASTIC interview at one of the schools I interviewed at. Everything clicked. I am a firm believer in the importance of the interview now. With my numbers, what are the chances of me getting rejected at my state school and getting accepted at my neighboring state's school.
Anyway, it is possible, but definitely far from the normal.

 

[zero2hero]

I think the point to get across is not specifically volunteering but obtaining some form of clinical experience whether it's shadowing a doctor, spending time in the ER or getting an internship. I personally didn't volunteer much during college, maybe 3 hours a week for 2 months or so but I spent a great deal of time at a private GI office as part of a campus internship program. I think adcoms just wanna see that you know what you're getting yourself into.