AOA selection process

[peehdee]

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ok.. i'm sure this has been asked before and if so can someone give me a link?

the questions are these:

1) is it pretty much an academic honor? if you don't get honors in most of you classes you're not going to make it?

2) what about doing extracurricular stuff? like being president of your class or school? or is it pretty much still about the grades?

3) how about publications? do they count? or again is it based on grades? i.e. yes if you have 'other' stuff it helps but bottom line is getting honors. is that right? just like they say about getting into med school, yeah 'other' stuff helps, but most of it comes down to grades and mcat score.

4) how does YOUR school do it (give the name)

 

[Jim Picotte]

ok.. i'm sure this has been asked before and if so can someone give me a link?

the questions are these:

1) is it pretty much an academic honor? if you don't get honors in most of you classes you're not going to make it?

2) what about doing extracurricular stuff? like being president of your class or school? or is it pretty much still about the grades?

3) how about publications? do they count? or again is it based on grades? i.e. yes if you have 'other' stuff it helps but bottom line is getting honors. is that right? just like they say about getting into med school, yeah 'other' stuff helps, but most of it comes down to grades and mcat score.

4) how does YOUR school do it (give the name)

Every school is different...so the answer is it depends. 3 years ago at my school Michigan State CHM it was a combination of grades as well as Step scores with heavy weight on third year clinical blocks, research and community involvement. You did have to have a minimum number of honors however, but there were people who's grades were great without any research of community involvement that didn't get it.

 

[12R34Y]

my school it is the top 15% of class by grade rank are eligible for junior AOA (third year) and the top 20% are eligible to apply for senior AOA. your rank makes you eligible, but that doesn't mean you'll be accepted.

every school is different.

later

 

[carrigallen]

Every school is different - I believe that the only society rule they must follow is that the upper 1/3 of the class is eligible. A number of well known schools do not have AoA.

I have been told by a student at my school, 25% of the class is eligible both after 3rd yr and again after 4th yr (<60 ppl). In total, 1/6th of the class may be selected (<40 ppl), with 1/4 of that number elected during 3rd yr (<10 ppl). Application includes personal statement (15%), class vote (20%), faculty recs from all attendings of 3rd yr (30%), and CV (35%).


I think that there are even a few AoA who do not match. Moreover, it is held by less than 50% of residents for any field - derm, plastics, you name it. The programs that rank or interview 'AoA applicants only' are few and far between, although they may exist.

In my view, the significance of AoA is often misunderstood by students. My rough impression is that AoA is nice to put on a CV, especially if you wish to distinguish yourself academically. However, it is not something to go bananas about if you don't have it.

 

[RustNeverSleeps]

Thanks for the info, Carrigallen. I always wondered about the people/common knowledge that say you have to be AOA to get a good residency. I don't know how it is at other schools, but at mine it seems like less than 10-15% of students get AOA. It's pretty depressing to think that these would be the only people eligible for "good" residencies.

 

[12R34Y]

I have to disagree with the above poster.

Every MD knows what AOA means. they don't confuse it with osteopaths. it's a huge honor.

later

 

[ice_23]

I have to disagree with the above poster.

Every MD knows what AOA means. they don't confuse it with osteopaths. it's a huge honor.

later

Yea, and if confusion was a problem, why wouldn't you just put "Alpha Omega Alpha Honor Society" or whatever down with AOA in parentheses on your resume?

-Ice

 

[Samoa]

It's always pretty clear from context what AOA stands for. I could be talking out of my ass here, but I'm pretty sure the AOA honor society is strictly an allopathic deal.

 

[peehdee]

to get back to my original question.
so pretty much it comes down to grades. mostly honors or forget it ?

It's always pretty clear from context what AOA stands for. I could be talking out of my ass here, but I'm pretty sure the AOA honor society is strictly an allopathic deal.

 

[macdown]

It is more about class rank. The definition of "honors" is not standardized from school to school so it is not a useful gague of how you are doing nationally. Plus you can still have a high class rank without honoring every class.

 

[carrigallen]

I changed my post above, with ostensibly a more accurate explanation of aoa at our school. I also deleted the american osteopathic association part, since this was just a rumor. AOA (of osteopathic schools) is comparable to the AMA, and there is occasionally confusion with the other AOA, Alpha Omega Alpha. However, I doubt many allopathic residency directors have confused them.

 

[Amxcvbcv]

Still got questions?

Read their constitution.

www.alphaomegaalpha.org

 

[phoenixsupra]

to get back to my original question.
so pretty much it comes down to grades. mostly honors or forget it ?

There are freak/token inductees that are voted in regardless of grades. Like, people who champion a popular but contraversial cause in the school or stuff like that. Very political. Quite a few with perfect grades don't get in. At least that's the way it is here. Top 20 grades AND popular with the power set will get you in for sure.

 

[edmadison]

At my school the top 25% were eligible and the school was allowed to take 16% of the total. The final selection out of that 25% was based on all sorts of intangibles (thank god my brown nosing paid off). As for its value, many residencies will use it as a surrogate for class rank.

Ed

 

[10minutes]

Top 5% at the end of second year by grade, and another 5% at the end of third year by vote (classmates vote). AOA could be a huge advantage for most people, and I know a few classmates aiming for it. Unfortunately most of them won't make it.

 

[Shinken]

Poor allopathic students...you have to bust your rears to even be considered by the AOA.

As an osteopathic student, I'm automatically a member of the AOA!! 😀

(I'm joking folks, just joking...)

 

[phoenixsupra]

Top 5% at the end of second year by grade, and another 5% at the end of third year by vote (classmates vote). AOA could be a huge advantage for most people, and I know a few classmates aiming for it. Unfortunately most of them won't make it.

Yes, but not everywhere. Here the top five are gaurenteed nothing. They've got to do some grovelling too if they want the prize. 😉

 

[wonderkid]

wtf, what if no one likes you in class cause you are smarter than everyone or they just dont like you??????????

 

[Gimlet]

wtf, what if no one likes you in class cause you are smarter than everyone or they just dont like you??????????

If everybody in someone's class doesn't like one person, I guarantee that it is for a reason, and not just because he or she is smarter than everyone. If one can't make friends with anyone in their class, that person probably doesn't represent the AOA's "encouragement of a high standard of character and conduct among medical students" (From AOA's constitution.)

 

[phoenixsupra]

wtf, what if no one likes you in class cause you are smarter than everyone or they just dont like you??????????

Then you don't get in.

 

[100904]

at my school:
purely objective criteria--points earned on pre-clinical exams + step 1 score + clinical clerkship GPA.

They don't care if you are a bookworm who knows everything and has no life outside of studying or if you are class president but got poorer grades. It's the books smarts that gets you Junior AOA and books and clinical smarts for Senior. 5% elected Junior; 10% elected Senior

Some competitive residency spots and fields will only interview you if you are Junior AOA.

 

[lattimer13]

at my school:


Some competitive residency spots and fields will only interview you if you are Junior AOA.

exactly what field only interviews junior AOA applicants?

 

[bigfrank]

exactly what field only interviews junior AOA applicants?

There is NO field that interviews only junior AOA applicants. I don't think there is even a program in any field that interviews only junior AOA's. Some programs may only interview AOA but they are few and far between.

FYI, I know for a fact that Wash U's radiology program (MIR), widely considered to be the best training program for radiology, doesn't even interview "only AOA." This is coming from my school's PD, who knows their PD very well.

 

[14022]

wtf, what if no one likes you in class cause you are smarter than everyone or they just dont like you??????????

wtf, it's not voting for prom queen. your classmates don't vote for you. faculty and aoa members from the class above you vote based on your grades and activities.

 

[medstudent123]

wtf, what if no one likes you in class cause you are smarter than everyone or they just dont like you??????????

i agree with some of the previous posts, that if people don't vote for you, it's probably for the reason that you are not a well-liked person. for example, you are at the top of your class, but you got there by stepping on everyone else's toes.

Although I have to say, there is some element of jealousy and competition in med school. So the smartest person, even if he or she is a nice person, may get less votes.

 

[lattimer13]

There is NO field that interviews only junior AOA applicants. I don't think there is even a program in any field that interviews only junior AOA's. Some programs may only interview AOA but they are few and far between.

it was a rhetorical question.
thanks for the heads up, though. 😉

 

[mayostand]

wtf, it's not voting for prom queen. your classmates don't vote for you. faculty and aoa members from the class above you vote based on your grades and activities.

here at uva they do...i know several extremely smart classmates who wouldn't get voted because no one knows them, just because they're quiet and mostly keep to themselves. i think in a way it might be indicative of future tendencies...braniac doc with no people skills. that being said, i think the students here are discerning enough not to vote in "mr./ms. popular" solely on their social prowess if their performance is lacking.

 

[bigfrank]

it was a rhetorical question.
thanks for the heads up, though. 😉

How was I to know?
What am I to do?
Does anyone listen to me on the forum?

 

[skidmark]

strictly decided by class rank (determined by gpa) at my school. Top 5 or so junior AOA. Next 10 or so senior AOA. Class size 100.

 

[14022]

here at uva they do...i know several extremely smart classmates who wouldn't get voted because no one knows them, just because they're quiet and mostly keep to themselves. i think in a way it might be indicative of future tendencies...braniac doc with no people skills. that being said, i think the students here are discerning enough not to vote in "mr./ms. popular" solely on their social prowess if their performance is lacking.

your classmates vote for aoa? wouldnt everyone just vote for themselves? or are they given a list of 15-20 people or so? does it have anything to do with grades at all then? if so, then i am guessing that your classmates would have to be told about your grades and board scores and stuff? seems like a lot of info to divulge. at my school, no one really talks about their grades or board scores or anything.