Apply to DO or go caribbean?

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pyruvate090205

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Hey guys, first time posting on these forums. I applied to and got interviews to SGU, ROSS, and AUC but after reading everyone's opinion on the Caribbean, i am rethinking what to do. In theory I could add to my resume and increase my MCAT and apply DO but I would like to know if that is a good option with what I have at the moment. Any opinion is greatly appreciated.

My science GPA is 3.23, my cGPA is 3.29. My sophomore year was absolutely terrible (first semester as a bio major); I was only able to pull of a 2.36 GPA in science classes. My junior and senior years were much better, at 3.48 and 3.39 respectively.

My MCAT score was a 23 (8/7/8 iirc) but this was all self study. I know it doesnt give me a pass but I feel as though if I were to take a class, I should be able to raise it a good amount (>30), right? I was too stubborn to go to one of those the first time around

I have some research experience and a good amount of clinical volunteering. My advisor also told me that my letters of rec are strong.

All that being said, part of me wants to just go to the Caribbean and get it over with instead of reapplying and being in the same boat next year. What does everyone think my best option going forward is?

Again, thank you very much for the replies. I greatly appreciate it
 
If you can't get into a US MD/DO program, you'd be better off doing something else. Our generation is burdened with enough student debt, waiting a year (and making some money, taking a class, getting other life experience) would be more beneficial to you than you realize.
 
DetectiveAlonzo said:
You pretty much know what we will say.

Study for retake and apply DO next cycle.

Not to be a penis either, but come on man. Use the search function.
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I just feel like everyone's situation would be different. I guess what I was trying to ask is, how good are my chances at getting into a DO if I were to raise my MCAT. More so, how much would I need to aim for to give me a GOOD shot. Also, all I really see is people saying no to the Caribbean but I wasnt sure if that included the better schools there or all of them altogether. And dont even worry about being a penis, lol. All help is truly helpful. thanks
 
samac said:
You couldn't pay me to go to school at one of the those schools.
A low tier DO school over any Caribbean school.
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why is that? i mean, its not like your completely doomed if you go there (...right?)
 
pyruvate090205 said:
I just feel like everyone's situation would be different. I guess what I was trying to ask is, how good are my chances at getting into a DO if I were to raise my MCAT. More so, how much would I need to aim for to give me a GOOD shot. Also, all I really see is people saying no to the Caribbean but I wasnt sure if that included the better schools there or all of them altogether. And dont even worry about being a penis, lol. All help is truly helpful. thanks
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You should aim for minimum 28+ on MCAT to be borderline competitive for most DO schools, especially since your GPAs are low.
 
pyruvate090205 said:
I just feel like everyone's situation would be different. I guess what I was trying to ask is, how good are my chances at getting into a DO if I were to raise my MCAT. More so, how much would I need to aim for to give me a GOOD shot. Also, all I really see is people saying no to the Caribbean but I wasnt sure if that included the better schools there or all of them altogether. And dont even worry about being a penis, lol. All help is truly helpful. thanks
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If you raise your MCAT to a 30, you are pretty much solid for every school. That is much easier said than done, however.

I think to have a good shot... you want to raise both GPAs to atleast a 3.4ish and atleast hit a 27 or higher on the new MCAT.
 
pyruvate090205 said:
why is that? i mean, its not like your completely doomed if you go there (...right?)
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They have awful retention rates, and if you do make it and rock your boards, it can be harder to get good rotations, you're going to have a harder time getting a residency than any other MD or DO. But once (if) you do get a residency than it's all an equal playing field.
 
Pretty much, the higher your GPA... the slightly better leeway you will have when it comes to the MCAT. That and your ECs and PS and secondaries and when you apply all are factors to consider.
 
pyruvate090205 said:
I just feel like everyone's situation would be different. I guess what I was trying to ask is, how good are my chances at getting into a DO if I were to raise my MCAT. More so, how much would I need to aim for to give me a GOOD shot. Also, all I really see is people saying no to the Caribbean but I wasnt sure if that included the better schools there or all of them altogether. And dont even worry about being a penis, lol. All help is truly helpful. thanks
Click to expand...

You are in the range of having a shot, you need to get the MCAT up more. To have a borderline chance you need to get a score equivalent to a 24, to have a competitive shot I would say a score equivalent to a 27. Just make sure the app is in earlier (apply to one school and let it process). When you get your MCAT score back, then apply to the schools you have a shot in.
 
pyruvate090205 said:
I just feel like everyone's situation would be different. I guess what I was trying to ask is, how good are my chances at getting into a DO if I were to raise my MCAT. More so, how much would I need to aim for to give me a GOOD shot. Also, all I really see is people saying no to the Caribbean but I wasnt sure if that included the better schools there or all of them altogether. And dont even worry about being a penis, lol. All help is truly helpful. thanks
Click to expand...
So far, you might have a shot at some DO programs with lower MCAT scores, but key word is MIGHT (With the increase in competition every year, it will continue to get harder). I am not completely sure on that, but from what I have read, and especially with this merger, your time to land a residency should be MUCH easier by going to a US medical school over Caribbean. It's highly suggested that you do a retake, and try to score above a 28. Every year, the application cycle gets more and more competitive, and you will just have to beef up your resume more and more. Like you said, if you take a class and attempt to get a 30+, you would be in an ideal situation, but that's a LOT easier said than done. I have no idea how this new MCAT will be, but as a future DO student, I highly suggest re-applying, placing your primary application in on the first day, take the MCAT whenever you are ready (Idea would be to study for 4 months and take it) and creating a comprehensive school list once you get your MCAT score
 
samac said:
They have awful retention rates, and if you do make it and rock your boards, it can be harder to get good rotations, you're going to have a harder time getting a residency than any other MD or DO. But once (if) you do get a residency than it's all an equal playing field.
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No it's not. To get into a competitive fellowship like cardiology, gasteroenterology, or heme/onc it is far easier to match from a competitive internal medicine or pediatrics program. Matching from the caribbean may get you into a program, but not a desirable one that will make you competitive for a fellowship.
 
DetectiveAlonzo said:
Pretty much, the higher your GPA... the slightly better leeway you will have when it comes to the MCAT. That and your ECs and PS and secondaries and when you apply all are factors to consider.
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I did really well in my physics and ochem classes. my gen bio and gen chem, on the other hand, were terrible. I cant blame anyone other than myself for that, I really didnt buckle down and take it seriously until after seeing my grades sophomore year (kicking myself every day for it). Should I try to retake the classes that I got a C in? Do DO schools factor in grade replacement?
 
pyruvate090205 said:
I did really well in my physics and ochem classes. my gen bio and gen chem, on the other hand, were terrible. I cant blame anyone other than myself for that, I really didnt buckle down and take it seriously until after seeing my grades sophomore year (kicking myself every day for it). Should I try to retake the classes that I got a C in? Do DO schools factor in grade replacement?
Click to expand...

Yes and Yes.
 
pyruvate090205 said:
I did really well in my physics and ochem classes. my gen bio and gen chem, on the other hand, were terrible. I cant blame anyone other than myself for that, I really didnt buckle down and take it seriously until after seeing my grades sophomore year (kicking myself every day for it). Should I try to retake the classes that I got a C in? Do DO schools factor in grade replacement?
Click to expand...

Yep. It is all apart of the AACOMAS application. The awesome part of applying DO.
 
IslandStyle808 said:
No it's not. To get into a competitive fellowship like cardiology, gasteroenterology, or heme/onc it is far easier to match from a competitive internal medicine or pediatrics program. Matching from the caribbean may get you into a program, but not a desirable one that will make you competitive for a fellowship.
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Touché. I was just thinking the FM route, wasn't even considering fellowships.
 
Okay guys, i dont want to quote everyone who has replied so im just going to give a BIG THANK YOU to everyone. felt it is much easier this way

I didnt know AACOMAS does grade replacement, I will factor in what my GPA could potentially be if i retook the classes I got a C in and get back to everyone. It's only gonna help strengthen the argument to not go to the caribbean.

I very much appreciate everyone's response. Ill post a bit later with the updated grades if I could get an A in the classes I got a C in.

One other question before I go, my advisor is seriously pushing for the Caribbean. I guess thats why I was initially leaning that way. Can someone explain why? Im sure she would know the current situation of IMG but she still thinks its a better option
 
samac said:
Touché. I was just thinking the FM route, wasn't even considering fellowships.
Click to expand...

Yep. If it is from the standpoint of just completing a residency or even aiming for a non-competitive fellowship, then yeah it doesn't matter much where you are after matching.

Main thing is to get into a school in the US, this give you a fair shot at most specialties. Tiers of medical schools don't matter as much as the tiers of residency programs. The only the only exception is if one is applying to a extremely competitive specialty for a extremely competitive program, then where you went to schools matters.
 
pyruvate090205 said:
Okay guys, i dont want to quote everyone who has replied so im just going to give a BIG THANK YOU to everyone. felt it is much easier this way

I didnt know AACOMAS does grade replacement, I will factor in what my GPA could potentially be if i retook the classes I got a C in and get back to everyone. It's only gonna help strengthen the argument to not go to the caribbean.

I very much appreciate everyone's response. Ill post a bit later with the updated grades if I could get an A in the classes I got a C in.

One other question before I go, my advisor is seriously pushing for the Caribbean. I guess thats why I was initially leaning that way. Can someone explain why? Im sure she would know the current situation of IMG but she still thinks its a better option
Click to expand...
I'm assuming this is the advisor at your school? If so, please don't listen to them. Go with what people are saying on these forums. I can't even start to give you a number of how many times I have gotten screwed over following my "advisors" advice.
 
SynapticDoctah said:
I'm assuming this is the advisor at your school? If so, please don't listen to them. Go with what people are saying on these forums. I can't even start to give you a number of how many times I have gotten screwed over following my "advisors" advice.
Click to expand...
yes my pre-health advisor at my university. the one who deals w students applying to graduate schools in medicine and dentistry etc
 
pyruvate090205 said:
One other question before I go, my advisor is seriously pushing for the Caribbean. I guess thats why I was initially leaning that way. Can someone explain why? Im sure she would know the current situation of IMG but she still thinks its a better option
Click to expand...

You would be surprise at what they don't know. If she did not tell you about DO or grade replacement, then there are things she may not know about applying to the caribbean. These forums will help you a lot more because you will be getting so many different view points that will help you make a more informed decision. There are so many underdogs(myself included) that have been helped thanks to the people on here .
 
SynapticDoctah said:
I'm assuming this is the advisor at your school? If so, please don't listen to them. Go with what people are saying on these forums. I can't even start to give you a number of how many times I have gotten screwed over following my "advisors" advice.
Click to expand...
INCREDIBLY important, I went to a big named state university, and I have gotten screwed by my advisors advice SO many times. Only after I started working at NIH, and spoke with that advisor was I able to really understand the application cycle. The first advice the NIH advisor gave me was, "Wow, you are definitely not getting into the medical schools you applied to, I guess you like throwing money away"...the school list I devised was from my university medical committee. When I didn't get in last cycle, my university advising committee told me, "What? You didn't get in??!?! I am so surprised!"
 
Nesmall2 said:
INCREDIBLY important, I went to a big named state university, and I have gotten screwed by my advisors advice SO many times. Only after I started working at NIH, and spoke with that advisor was I able to really understand the application cycle. The first advice the NIH advisor gave me was, "Wow, you are definitely not getting into the medical schools you applied to, I guess you like throwing money away"...the school list I devised was from my university medical committee. When I didn't get in last cycle, my university advising committee told me, "What? You didn't get in??!?! I am so surprised!"
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thats just terrible. you'd figure they would be the ones who know best and can give the best advice. womp
 
so i just
IslandStyle808 said:
You would be surprise at what they don't know. If she did not tell you about DO or grade replacement, then there are things she may not know about applying to the caribbean. These forums will help you a lot more because you will be getting so many different view points that will help you make a more informed decision. There are so many underdogs(myself included) that have been helped thanks to the people on here .
Click to expand...
she did tell me about DO but didnt make it seem like I had any chance at them (granted, with a low GPA and MCAT, i currently dont. but she didnt even give me the option of fixing/improving them). she definitely didnt mention grade replacement which would be super helpful to help salvage that awful semester
 
1. DO

2. Retake the MCAT
2a. No, self-study is not an excuse for a 23. I self studied, and most of my peers self studied and scored 30+. Most of us only a few weeks, compared to the 2-3 month crowds.

3. retake a few classes if necessary.

4. Prosper.
 
UBC2014 said:
1. DO

2. Retake the MCAT
2a. No, self-study is not an excuse for a 23. I self studied, and most of my peers self studied and scored 30+. Most of us only a few weeks, compared to the 2-3 month crowds.

3. retake a few classes if necessary.

4. Prosper.
Click to expand...
then you have to share your secrets with me! did you use textbooks or strictly MCAT study material?
 
updated: if i were to retake the classes that i got C's in, my cumulative GPA would be a 3.43 and my science GPA would be a 3.36. Obviously better than before and can be done in one semester easily. Does that give me a much better chance? (along w increasing my MCAT)

sorry if my questions seem redundant. i didnt even think i would be considering doing this and just want to make sure its worth it.
 
OP, check out ExamCrackers.
Those books + AAMC practice tests.
 
That's a very personal decision. I didn't have the extra $$ and I hadn't even looked into it when I was preparing, so I can't really offer meaningful advice on that.

If you're a diligent studier than I'm suggesting to try ExamCracker's. Their presentation is a little more focused on essential objectives, and easier/more efficient in my opinion (opposed to Kaplan's/Princeton's prep books)

If structuring the MCAT or getting yourself to study regularly is an issue, than the Kaplan courses can certainly help with that. Hopefully others can chime in on their specific experiences.
 
If you truly did read the posts, you would know that the answer unequivocally is never ever ever under any circumstances go Caribbean. It doesn't matter who you are, or what your MCAT is, or if you've read the warnings but you just know you're so smart and will work so hard and you'll still be able to get whatever residency you want blah blah blah. Caribbean will literally ruin your life.
 
OP:

Do not waste your money on ANY class for the MCAT. Buy the Berkeley Review books for G-chem and physics, Princeton Review for Biology and O-chem. Get the TPR Science workbook and do all the science passages in that book.

I used those books to study from and only got about 3/4 through the passages in them.
Plus, I only did about 1/4 of the passages in TPRH and still got a 31.
 
pyruvate090205 said:
updated: if i were to retake the classes that i got C's in, my cumulative GPA would be a 3.43 and my science GPA would be a 3.36. Obviously better than before and can be done in one semester easily. Does that give me a much better chance? (along w increasing my MCAT)

sorry if my questions seem redundant. i didnt even think i would be considering doing this and just want to make sure its worth it.
Click to expand...
Yes. You can get in with that. You have to be willing to apply broadly with a mix of mid tier and low tier schools, but you could do it with that and an MCAT bump.
 
pyruvate090205 said:
Hey guys, first time posting on these forums. I applied to and got interviews to SGU, ROSS, and AUC but after reading everyone's opinion on the Caribbean, i am rethinking what to do. In theory I could add to my resume and increase my MCAT and apply DO but I would like to know if that is a good option with what I have at the moment. Any opinion is greatly appreciated.

My science GPA is 3.23, my cGPA is 3.29. My sophomore year was absolutely terrible (first semester as a bio major); I was only able to pull of a 2.36 GPA in science classes. My junior and senior years were much better, at 3.48 and 3.39 respectively.

My MCAT score was a 23 (8/7/8 iirc) but this was all self study. I know it doesnt give me a pass but I feel as though if I were to take a class, I should be able to raise it a good amount (>30), right? I was too stubborn to go to one of those the first time around

I have some research experience and a good amount of clinical volunteering. My advisor also told me that my letters of rec are strong.

All that being said, part of me wants to just go to the Caribbean and get it over with instead of reapplying and being in the same boat next year. What does everyone think my best option going forward is?

Again, thank you very much for the replies. I greatly appreciate it
Click to expand...
Wow. The way SGU calculates GPA gave me both a science and cumulative above 3.6 My mcat was a 22, I didn't even get an interview. Looking back I guess it was a good thing, but your post makes me wonder why I got no love.

Anyway, sorry about that. I would say you at least have to give the US a try for 2 cycles. GME spots may be in very short supply when you finish.
 
pyruvate090205 said:
that over taking a class?
Click to expand...
The EK book for verbal reasoning is stellar. Verbal was my worst score on my MCAT and then when I started working for EK I had to read their verbal method to teach it and my score went up to 14. Really regret not using them when I took my actual MCAT. That being said, you can just read the book and not take the class. Just make sure you take lots of practice tests.
 
Heh just realized I spelled it correctly incorrect. Ahem,* Examkrackers*
There we go, must always learn from your mistakes..
 
Word of caution OP. You will have to ACE your retakes. You CANNOT settle for a B... you cannot withdraw the course.. you must ACE the,. I've kept this in mind during my DIY post-bacc and have a 4.0 so far for 22 units. However, you could benefit from retaking the MCAT and bumping your score up to 27+.
 
re-take MCAT and apply DO. You will go from a ~50% chance of matching to 90%+

Also, advisors these days aren't the best place to go for information pertaining to medical school. You can find virtually anything on SDN though use of the search engine
 
metoo said:
Wow. The way SGU calculates GPA gave me both a science and cumulative above 3.6 My mcat was a 22, I didn't even get an interview. Looking back I guess it was a good thing, but your post makes me wonder why I got no love.

Anyway, sorry about that. I would say you at least have to give the US a try for 2 cycles. GME spots may be in very short supply when you finish.
Click to expand...

SGU is probably the only caribbean school with some standards.
 
DetectiveAlonzo said:
Word of caution OP. You will have to ACE your retakes. You CANNOT settle for a B... you cannot withdraw the course.. you must ACE the,. I've kept this in mind during my DIY post-bacc and have a 4.0 so far for 22 units. However, you could benefit from retaking the MCAT and bumping your score up to 27+.
Click to expand...

i getcha. lucky for me, the classes were the basic ones, nothing overly complicated. I was looking over an exam that i did poorly on back in the day and all i could do is shake my head is disbelief. but that's really awesome that you were able to keep a 4.0 for 22u. very awesome, man

Bea5T said:
re-take MCAT and apply DO. You will go from a ~50% chance of matching to 90%+

Also, advisors these days aren't the best place to go for information pertaining to medical school. You can find virtually anything on SDN though use of the search engine
Click to expand...

is it really that bad? like say i choose to go to AUC or SGU and do pretty well on boards, ill only have a 50/50 shot to match?! or is that a bit of an exaggeration? I'm probably gonna get some backlash for even asking but is the hate on the Caribbean bc they limit your ceiling as a doctor and its not the most ideal situation or is it because its really an awful place to get an education and you will come out not knowing anything
 
pyruvate090205 said:
i getcha. lucky for me, the classes were the basic ones, nothing overly complicated. I was looking over an exam that i did poorly on back in the day and all i could do is shake my head is disbelief. but that's really awesome that you were able to keep a 4.0 for 22u. very awesome, man



is it really that bad? like say i choose to go to AUC or SGU and do pretty well on boards, ill only have a 50/50 shot to match?! or is that a bit of an exaggeration? I'm probably gonna get some backlash for even asking but is the hate on the Caribbean bc they limit your ceiling as a doctor and its not the most ideal situation or is it because its really an awful place to get an education and you will come out not knowing anything
Click to expand...

I am sure you learn plenty, but the residencies in the U.S. really dont like Carib students. Have you heard the story about the student who went to the Caribbean, racked up over 300k in debt, couldn't get residency position for two years, and is now making $15/hr as a pharmacy tech?
 
The classes are horrible but their Kaplan course prepares you well for Step 1. Not to mention some of the schools make you take a similar exam like the Step 1 before you can even take the REAL thing. I know some people there and this is their experience.
 
Not to mention that those who I have talked to and came back from the carib told me NOT to go there. That is saying something. One of them is a licensed Internal Med guy as well. One is currently applying to residency as well.
 
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