Applying as US Permanent Resident Hurts?

[lakerfan38]

Hi guys, I was born in China, came to US when I was 6, got my green card 5 years ago, and am just now applying for citizenship.


Does having permanent residency status hurt you in admission chances, as opposed to being a citizen

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[windcolour]

citizen is better

Hi guys, I was born in China, came to US when I was 6, got my green card 5 years ago, and am just now applying for citizenship.


Does having permanent residency status hurt you in admission chances, as opposed to being a citizen

 

[MCP1]

Has no effect. For situations like these, they are essentially the same thing.

 

[hewmanoid]

At least from my understanding, yes to some extent. Although legal U.S. residents are "eligible" to apply, the vast majority of U.S. med school matriculants are indeed U.S. citizens. Maybe med schools think physicians who are U.S citizens are more likely to stay and practice in the States? This makes sense though because you don't want to spend years training them here and lose them to some other countries later. I don't know..

 

[FSAP]

I am PR, 36 and 3.99. I am on two WLs and no acceptances. Take it for what it's worth.

 

[briton]

I don't think it makes a difference. I was a PR when I submitted my application but became a citizen mid-cycle. I was offered interviews as a PR.

 

[lakerfan38]

not the most comforting. anyone else have experiences as a PR living in the US?

 

[mvenus929]

At least from my understanding, yes to some extent. Although legal U.S. residents are "eligible" to apply, the vast majority of U.S. med school matriculants are indeed U.S. citizens.

That probably has more to do with the fact that more US citizens than PRs apply to medical school than it does with favoring citizens in the application process.

 

[alibai3ah]

That probably has more to do with the fact that more US citizens than PRs apply to medical school than it does with favoring citizens in the application process.

It does, but citizens are still favored over PR. When it is so compeititve and the vast majority of applicants are citizens, why risk it with a PR?

But to the OP, if you are a strong candidate, they will definetely give you attention....

 

[lakerfan38]

Reslly I'm a first generation and I am applying for citizenship. This sucks then since I have no control over this. Can LizzyM chime in?

It does, but citizens are still favored over PR. When it is so compeititve and the vast majority of applicants are citizens, why risk it with a PR?

But to the OP, if you are a strong candidate, they will definetely give you attention....

 

[NiCad089]

It makes no difference. It will not hurt you.

 

[longhorn09]

At least from my understanding, yes to some extent. Although legal U.S. residents are "eligible" to apply, the vast majority of U.S. med school matriculants are indeed U.S. citizens. QUOTE]
It is becuase the vast majority of the applciants are US citizens. That's simple.

 

[longhorn09]

I am PR, 36 and 3.99. I am on two WLs and no acceptances. Take it for what it's worth.

There can be many things causing these.

 

[longhorn09]

It does, but citizens are still favored over PR. When it is so compeititve and the vast majority of applicants are citizens, why risk it with a PR?

But to the OP, if you are a strong candidate, they will definetely give you attention....

But isn't it true that we apply to be PR because we want to be citizen later? There's no risk here...

 

[Jolie South]

I am PR, 36 and 3.99. I am on two WLs and no acceptances. Take it for what it's worth.

Numbers don't guarantee an acceptance. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that your residency status is the only thing behind your waitlists.

 

[mcgyver]

my understanding is that PRs and citizens are the same for admissions purposes. i applied as a PR and got accepted to 2 NY state schools.

if you're unsure... call the admissions office and ask them.

 

[kami333]

That is my understanding as well, that PR and citizen is basically the same. And has been my experience applying for jobs and looking at different professional/grad programs. From my understanding the only time it comes into play is if you commit a felony or are applying for security clearances (or in some limited cases grants, such as a Fulbright).

 

[FSAP]

Numbers don't guarantee an acceptance. I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that your residency status is the only thing behind your waitlists.

Agree 100%. That's why I said to take it for what it's worth.

 

[alibai3ah]

Let me preface this by saying I am an immigrant to this country, but I lucked out on the citizenship issue. People here say it doesn't matter and it doesn't as compared to the multitude of other factors involved in this process. But I still think there might be a slight bias. I'm not saying not to apply, by all means you should apply. But from an adcomms perspective, if all else is the same, they would take the citizen over the permanent resident.....

I know it is out of your control, but do the best you can with all your applications and it will work out. Don't dwell over things you can't control.....

 

[NiCad089]

Let me preface this by saying I am an immigrant to this country, but I lucked out on the citizenship issue. People here say it doesn't matter and it doesn't as compared to the multitude of other factors involved in this process. But I still think there might be a slight bias. I'm not saying not to apply, by all means you should apply. But from an adcomms perspective, if all else is the same, they would take the citizen over the permanent resident.....

I don't think so. Typically, you have to be a PR to become a citizen, so why would adcoms have a bias against PRs? If you are not eligible to apply for citizenship, you can't. Why would anyone hold that against you?

 

[MCP1]

Let me preface this by saying I am an immigrant to this country, but I lucked out on the citizenship issue. People here say it doesn't matter and it doesn't as compared to the multitude of other factors involved in this process. But I still think there might be a slight bias. I'm not saying not to apply, by all means you should apply. But from an adcomms perspective, if all else is the same, they would take the citizen over the permanent resident.....

I know it is out of your control, but do the best you can with all your applications and it will work out. Don't dwell over things you can't control.....

Not true at all. They are exactly the same for college/grad school applications. It is why most apps phrase the question as: are you a citizen of permanent resident (check box one) or international (check box two).

Many people stay permanent residents because although they plan on living in the States forever, they want to keep their citizenship of their home country for sentimental/travel reasons. Plus, it is a bit of a hassle to become a citizen (as it should be!), documenting every time you have left the country to the day etc. and can be quite expensive without any major advantages. A permanent resident cannot vote or be called to jury duty, and I think, but am not sure, that their estate can be taxed at a higher rate upon death.

 

[alibai3ah]

For the post above I agree with what you guys are both saying, but at the same time if someone wants to maintain their residency in their native country, don't you think some schools might consider this person a risk? He or she can easily leave at any time in their life, but a US citizenship makes that much less likely, b/c of the hassles involved with becoming a US citizen in the first place.

Again I am just assuming this, no one can know for sure. But I still can't help but think their is a slight bias against non-US citizens.

 

[mcgyver]

He or she can easily leave at any time in their life, but a US citizenship makes that much less likely, b/c of the hassles involved with becoming a US citizen in the first place.

Again I am just assuming this, no one can know for sure. But I still can't help but think their is a slight bias against non-US citizens.

actually getting and maintaining PR status is the hard part. after that US citizenship is (usually) easily obtained within 5 years.

 

[chocolaterie]

Legally, this would not make sense to me. I am a PR as well and I have been told that PR's and US citizens have the same status. The only difference is that PR's can't vote. Most med schools ask that you be a citizen/permanent resident. If you're a non-resident alien.. that's another story. You would have the same access to loans, and acquiring PR status isn't usually a cakewalk. You pay taxes and you live here "permanently". If a school (other than say the military med school) denied you based soley on PR status, I could see that opening huge lawsuits.

 

[kami333]

For the post above I agree with what you guys are both saying, but at the same time if someone wants to maintain their residency in their native country, don't you think some schools might consider this person a risk? He or she can easily leave at any time in their life, but a US citizenship makes that much less likely, b/c of the hassles involved with becoming a US citizen in the first place.

Again I am just assuming this, no one can know for sure. But I still can't help but think their is a slight bias against non-US citizens.

Who says you'd be giving up the previous citizenship? I'm definitely keeping mine, makes life and travel lot easier that way (I'd be happier if it was EU citizenship but that's a different story...). Very few countries recognize other countries renunciation clauses so you have to go through specific procedures, most people just stick their old passport in a drawer and forget about it if they don't plan on using it anymore.

 

[DocDrakeRamoray]

I think it's about money. Permanent residents can take educational loans like U.S. citizens, IMO this is all med schools care about in terms of your immigration status.

 

[Jolie South]

For the post above I agree with what you guys are both saying, but at the same time if someone wants to maintain their residency in their native country, don't you think some schools might consider this person a risk? He or she can easily leave at any time in their life, but a US citizenship makes that much less likely, b/c of the hassles involved with becoming a US citizen in the first place.

Again I am just assuming this, no one can know for sure. But I still can't help but think their is a slight bias against non-US citizens.

Spoken like someone who has never dealt with the Dept of Homeland security. . . It is a huge time and money commitment to apply for PR status. There are interviews, several application stages, collection of biometric information, fees galore. It is anything but cheap and easy. If someone makes the commitment, he/she is not going anywhere.

Furthermore, in some countries it is very easy to become a resident, so US citizens can up and leave indefinitely. Your argument that US citizens are "stable" does not really hold up.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

u will be treated equally, the only additional thing is u may be asked to provide a copy of your greencard to the office.

 

[vickpick]

i think its completely fair and just to take a citizen over a permanent resident.

I am a permanent resident and will probably stay that way since I already have a dual citizenship with India and Germany - I dont think they will allow a triple citizenship... but I once I get into MD school, I'll probably let the German citizenship go and grab my US one..

 

[AlbaMD]

i think its completely fair and just to take a citizen over a permanent resident.

Now why is that? Don't see a good reason for this.

I am a permanent US resident, and for financial reasons am not planning to apply for citizenship until I am a practicing physician (those $800 are needed for living expenses, and I can sure make my peace with not being able to vote). FYI, when I applied, I received 7 interviews (out of 12 schools I applied to) and 4 outright acceptances. In my med school class right now there are 5 permanent residents. Out of all schools I applied to, only one (UCSF) cared whether my plans for the future included returning to my home country. For everyone else, PR appeared to be exactly equivalent to US citizenship for admission purposes.

 

[witness23]

Now why is that? Don't see a good reason for this.

I am a permanent US resident, and for financial reasons am not planning to apply for citizenship until I am a practicing physician (those $800 are needed for living expenses, and I can sure make my peace with not being able to vote). FYI, when I applied, I received 7 interviews (out of 12 schools I applied to) and 4 outright acceptances. In my med school class right now there are 5 permanent residents. Out of all schools I applied to, only one (UCSF) cared whether my plans for the future included returning to my home country. For everyone else, PR appeared to be exactly equivalent to US citizenship for admission purposes.

with no disrespect, don't be ******ed my dude. I've seen many ppl say this same exact dumb **** and as soon as they step outside of the country for whatever reason they dont stop complaining about how unfair it is for non US citizens


as someone who has been in this situation before
US Passport>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[CD4helpCD8]

Spoken like someone who has never dealt with the Dept of Homeland security. . . It is a huge time and money commitment to apply for PR status. There are interviews, several application stages, collection of biometric information, fees galore. It is anything but cheap and easy. If someone makes the commitment, he/she is not going anywhere.

Furthermore, in some countries it is very easy to become a resident, so US citizens can up and leave indefinitely. Your argument that US citizens are "stable" does not really hold up.

Completely agreed. I guess most SDNers who became PR through "family-based" category (most likely, the parents). Yes, it is a loooong wait and expensive process, but in general the PR status will be granted at the end - it is a matter of time. In my case, I had to go through the harder way: "employment-based (EB)" category. I came to U.S. 12 years ago to start my M.S. study, and got into a PhD program two years later. I got my PhD almost three years ago, and I have been working as a postdoc since then. Now, the problem is that postdoc is NOT considered a permanent job, so the university do not (and cannot) sponsor me for the PR. My only option is to claim National Interest Waiver (NIW) and sponsor for myself. NIW has very stringent standards, and I have to prove that I am "better" than most of the other guys in my field - a daunting task for a start-up researcher (competing and being compared with established scientists/faculty). Thank God I finally got it last year.

As for whether PR are treated differently from citizens for admission purpose, the answer is no - at least, not those schools I applied to. As DocDrakeRamoray said, the key issue is money - unless the student is coming from a very wealthy family and can afford the cost of attending medical school, he/she likely needs student loan, and everyone knows how difficult it is to get a loan if you are not a PR.

 

[CD4helpCD8]

with no disrespect, don't be ******ed my dude. I've seen many ppl say this same exact dumb **** and as soon as they step outside of the country for whatever reason they dont stop complaining about how unfair it is for non US citizens


as someone who has been in this situation before
US Passport>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Well, that US passport does have some effects. I was sent to Holland for a business trip as soon as the university knew I got green card. Guess what? I had to shell out ~$150 to apply for the visitor visa to EU (the university paid it, BTW), whereas no visa is required if you have a US passport. 🙄

 

[witness23]

Well, that US passport does have some effects. I was sent to Holland for a business trip as soon as the university knew I got green card. Guess what? I had to shell out ~$150 to apply for the visitor visa to EU (the university paid it, BTW), whereas no visa is required if you have a US passport. 🙄

if you have ever been to a 3rd world country and you flash that US passport, you are treated like a King. 😳

 

[FSAP]

.

 

[vickpick]

if you have ever been to a 3rd world country and you flash that US passport, you are treated like a King. its important for us non-white folks to be not confused with the "slumdogs" 😳

i actually find tht term offensive, especially in the manner it is used..

i usually never talk to a person abt the movie, even if the other person mentions the movie, i ignore it.. I think the word was used in the movie by Anil kapoor as an insult, and that word they used in the title.. what a wussy move... I hate England.

 

[witness23]

i thought it was a great movie and realistic, except for when freida pinto just got into a car and drove. the choice of words were great, especially "slumdog" and "gun master g" or whatever salim said.

but i edited it just for you

 

[Pinkertinkle]

if you have ever been to a 3rd world country and you flash that US passport, you are treated like a King. 😳

In some countries it'll get your head cut off

 

[strummin]

if you have ever been to a 3rd world country and you flash that US passport, you are treated like a King. 😳

Hah. Have you even been outside the US? I'll just say this: post-Clinton and pre-Obama, Americans weren't very popular in many parts of the world.

In fact, from my very OWN experience, many African countries have very corrupt airport customs officials and usually harass Americans more because they think they might be able to convince Americans to bribe them with a lot of money - and, many times, they are successful.

 

[Jolie South]

Hah. Have you even been outside the US? I'll just say this: post-Clinton and pre-Obama, Americans weren't very popular in many parts of the world.

In fact, from my very OWN experience, many African countries have very corrupt airport customs officials and usually harass Americans more because they think they might be able to convince Americans to bribe them with a lot of money - and, many times, they are successful.

This has been my experience as well.

 

[AlbaMD]

with no disrespect, don't be ******ed my dude. I've seen many ppl say this same exact dumb **** and as soon as they step outside of the country for whatever reason they dont stop complaining about how unfair it is for non US citizens


as someone who has been in this situation before
US Passport>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

First of all, there is absolutely no reason to be rude. I'm not sure what exactly in my post qualified as "dumb ****", but I don't want to be sucked into a pointless exchange of rude comments.

Secondly, there is no doubt that US passport does give people tremendous advantages when they travel outside the US. However, for the purpose of admissions into most US medical schools (maybe there are a few exceptions, but not many), having permanent resident status is just as good as being a US citizen, and it is equivalent from financial aid standpoint.

 

[anon3]

double post

 

[anon3]

Expect questions about where you were born or when you immigrated.

I was a naturalized citizen. Every interviewer that saw my secondary beforehand mentioned I wasn't born in the United States during the interview.

From talking to other interviewees, I think that indicates it to be a weak point in my app. To get to the point you're being interviewed, you'll have alot of good points but only a few weak points, so every interview just ask random (or which ones they like) from your good points and the same weak points.

Every interviewer asked me when I came over to the U.S.. My friend got asked why he got a C in Chem his freshman year.

I don't think any administrator would admit to inherent bias for something you can't control though.

 

[CD4helpCD8]

Interesting...my interviewers never asked me that question (or anything related to my immigration status). Maybe that's because the interviews were "blind" and such info (immigration status) was not there for interviewers to see? Anyway, my interviewers probably figured that out from my accent (not too bad though) , but no one asked.

 

[vickpick]

I often tend to think I have an accent, but recently, people I meet and talk to often ask me if I have been in the US alll my life.. I think im getting to a point where my accent is acceptably "american".. lol..

 

[majestic red]

I'm a PR from China as well, and I was offered plenty of interviews and will be attending WashU in the fall. I do have very high stats, though... (but I would call my ECs mediocre).

 

[mvenus929]

I am PR, 36 and 3.99. I am on two WLs and no acceptances. Take it for what it's worth.

And I'm a citizen, had a 3.98 and 36R and got rejected from 6 schools, waitlisted until I withdrew from the last.

It does, but citizens are still favored over PR. When it is so compeititve and the vast majority of applicants are citizens, why risk it with a PR?

Because it doesn't make any difference on that front. And before you say 'all things equal, the adcoms will take the citizen'... nothing is ever equal. No two applicants are just alike, with everything the same except their citizenship status.

For the post above I agree with what you guys are both saying, but at the same time if someone wants to maintain their residency in their native country, don't you think some schools might consider this person a risk? He or she can easily leave at any time in their life, but a US citizenship makes that much less likely, b/c of the hassles involved with becoming a US citizen in the first place.

Again I am just assuming this, no one can know for sure. But I still can't help but think their is a slight bias against non-US citizens.

I was born a citizen, so I didn't face any of the hassles involved with becoming a US citizen. I could move to England and become a PR there just as easily as someone who is a PR can move back to their home country.

I just don't get why the majority of schools would need to discriminate against PRs because of their citizenship status. They pay taxes and are familiar with the culture of the US. Besides, Canadian citizens are, most of the time, considered much the same as US citizens, in terms of whether or not they can apply. Would it be easier for a Canadian citizen to gain admission vs. a permanent resident of the US?

 

[Scottish Chap]

citizen is better

Green card vs. U.S. citizenship has no bearing whatsoever in medical school admissions.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

For the post above I agree with what you guys are both saying, but at the same time if someone wants to maintain their residency in their native country, don't you think some schools might consider this person a risk? He or she can easily leave at any time in their life, but a US citizenship makes that much less likely, b/c of the hassles involved with becoming a US citizen in the first place.

Again I am just assuming this, no one can know for sure. But I still can't help but think their is a slight bias against non-US citizens.

ah yes. americans can NEVER leave america! USA! U-S-A!!

 

[drbuckingnicks]

Just out of curiosity and being a PR myself. If there is no difference, why do they ask the question if you are a US citizen or a 'legal resident-specify your visa status' versus US citizen/permanent resident versus 'legal resident-specify your visa status'. In addition, when you fill out in information about your residency for amcas, they also ask you the country of your ‘nationality’ or basically what passport do you have now. They’re not optional questions. Hence, I find it hard to believe they don’t factor in somewhere along the selection proves.

I've actually seen one or two schools on AMCAS that specifically state US citizens only may apply. Also isn't there is a cap put in place by the Fed government that allows allopathic schools a certain percentage of Non US citizens to matriculate. What I was told by a physician on the admissions committee for UIC was that its easier if you are a citizen to get in with lower stats.