Are all chances ruined for Columbia?

[MindyProject20x]

I am a sophomore. I got an F in orgo. My school does grade replacement, so if I redo the class the new grade will replace the F for my gpa, but you will still see on my transcript the F.
My gpa is like a 2.6 with the F. I got a C in calc, too, and B's in my other science courses. But ny sociology courses I get A's in.
Just seeing if I should give up all hope or what.

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[Lannister]

You don't have much of a chance of getting into any medical school at all, let alone a school like Columbia.
Figure out why you're doing so poorly, and make a change.
MD schools average grades, even if your school does grade replacement, so the F will still affect your GPA.

 

[Lost in Translation]

Hard truth here, getting in at Columbia shouldn't even be a concern; getting in at any med school is doubtful at this point.

Better raise those grades quick.

 

[MyNameWasUsed]

A moment of silence for the fallen brother...

 

[MindyProject20x]

Even if I retake orgo and get all A's from here on out? Are they really so unforgiving? And what about MCAT/CV? That won't matter at all? @Lost in Translation @Lannister

 

[Pagan FutureDoc]

a 2.6 is very low. If you got 5 semesters worth of 4.0s (which seems unlikely given your previous classes) you'd only have around a 3.47.
With that upward trend and a great MCAT and ECs you'd have a good shot at schools that reward reinvention.
Columbia is a pipe dream...any MD school might be out of your reach.

Work on why you are doing poorly, retake all C,D,F courses and look at DO school.

 

[MindyProject20x]

Like I'm thinking about just taking only my major requirements at my school and my science courses over breaks at other colleges.

 

[Lannister]

Even if I retake orgo and get all A's from here on out? Are they really so unforgiving? And what about MCAT/CV? That won't matter at all? @Lost in Translation @Lannister

With your current GPA, it's likely that you'll be immediately screened out at most if not all schools, and your application will never be seen by a human being.

Also, taking all your science courses at other institutions will likely appear very suspicious.

 

[MindyProject20x]

a 2.6 is very low. If you got 5 semesters worth of 4.0s (which seems unlikely given your previous classes) you'd only have around a 3.47.
With that upward trend and a great MCAT and ECs you'd have a good shot at schools that reward reinvention.
Columbia is a pipe dream...any MD school might be out of your reach.

Work on why you are doing poorly, retake all C,D,F courses and look at DO school.

So not even a post bac or amazing EC's and MCAT will do anything?

 

[Lannister]

So not even a post bac or amazing EC's and MCAT will do anything?

Why would you think that you can achieve an amazing MCAT score when you can't even pass the pre-reqs?

 

[MyNameWasUsed]

Cause he'll work super duper hard from now on duh

 

[efle]

If you want honesty, yes. Their 10th percentile for GPA is a 3.57 and you can't get there even with perfect 4.0s for the rest of undergrad. At your current rate you'll be struggling to get into DO, so you need to forget all about famous MD names.

 

[MindyProject20x]

Why would you think that you can achieve an amazing MCAT score when you can't even pass the pre-reqs?

Well I only failed one prerequisite...and I'm better at standardized tests, especially with prep. And I can explain my grades, 2015 was just bad for me in general.

 

[MindyProject20x]

Cause he'll work super duper hard from now on duh

You don't have to be an dingus. I wanted constructive advice, and if you don't want to provide it you can find a different thread to be negative on. And she*

 

[whatever5]

Definitely not a contender for Columbia.

Not much of a contender for any school at this point. Don't worry though, once you realize that being doctor is nothing like the show you've named yourself after, you won't want to go to med school anyway.

 

[Pagan FutureDoc]

So not even a post bac or amazing EC's and MCAT will do anything?

Sure a post bacc can help, after one year of a post bacc you could have a GPA nearly up to the average for MD matriculants. This is giving that you take as many course each semester as you did your first three semsters and get a 4.0 in every single one.
Frankly that doesn't seem doable for you right now. You've got to address the reasons for your performance.

Also, as lannister said, if you take all your prereqs at another institution it's gonna look fishy to adcoms. It will look like you couldn't handle it at your home school and took them elsewhere to get a better grade. That doesn't bode well for excelling in medical school.

 

[Lannister]

Well I only failed one prerequisite...and I'm better at standardized tests, especially with prep. And I can explain my grades, 2015 was just bad for me in general.

And what is your explanation? Unless you had some horrible disease and were in the hospital for months on end, there's really no good explanation for two years of sub 3.0 grades.
Even if you did do amazing on the MCAT, you still likely wouldn't have a chance. Nothing can make up for a s****y GPA.

 

[MindyProject20x]

And what is your explanation? Unless you had some horrible disease and were in the hospital for months on end, there's really no good explanation for two years of sub 3.0 grades.
Even if you did do amazing on the MCAT, you still likely wouldn't have a chance. Nothing can make up for a s****y GPA.

Depression because of medical issues, and my father recently got 3 malignant tumors, one of which is a brain tumor

 

[MindyProject20x]

And what is your explanation? Unless you had some horrible disease and were in the hospital for months on end, there's really no good explanation for two years of sub 3.0 grades.
Even if you did do amazing on the MCAT, you still likely wouldn't have a chance. Nothing can make up for a s****y GPA.

In all honesty, I lost a baby. And it's really ****ed me up. I don't think I'd even write about that regardless.

 

[Lannister]

Depression because of medical issues, and my father recently got 3 malignant tumors, one of which is a brain tumor

In all honesty, I lost a baby. And it's really ****ed me up. I don't think I'd even write about that regardless.

That certainly does sound like a tough year, I'm sorry.
Columbia is still probably not in the cards, though. Get straight As for the next 5 semesters and rock the MCAT, and maybe you'll have a chance at some lower tier MD schools. As someone already mentioned, DO schools do grade replacement, so if you can retake the courses you got a C or lower in and get As, you should be alright for DO.

 

[lalex]

If your school does grade replacement just stay an extra year an retake anything less than a B.

 

[Psai]

If your school does grade replacement just stay an extra year an retake anything less than a B.

You still have to report all classes taken and grades

 

[lalex]

You still have to report all classes taken and grades

But do people actually do that? Does that mean people at Hopkins that fail a class on purpose so it gets erased have to report it?

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

But do people actually do that? Does that mean people at Hopkins that fail a class on purpose so it gets erased have to report it?

Some schools will allow you to retake a class and have only the second attempt grade show up on your transcript. I'm guessing from your comment that Hopkins might be one of those schools? In that case, you would only have to report that you retook the class, which probably wouldn't affect your overall GPA but I imagine it would still look pretty bad to med schools if you had several retakes - since it only really makes sense to retake a C or below. So if you had, like, 4 retakes a med school could reasonably assume you got a C or less in 4 of your classes. You'd definitely have some explaining to do.

But it sounds like OP's school will still show the original F in addition to the retake. OP, I strongly suggest that you ask for help. If mental health issues have been interfering with your grades, you might see a therapist. It might also be helpful to reach out to your school's study center. They can help you stay motivated and develop a solid study plan from here on out. It's not impossible for you to turn things around but you've gotten off to a pretty bad start so it'll take extra hard work. Good luck!

 

[lalex]

Some schools will allow you to retake a class and have only the second attempt grade show up on your transcript. I'm guessing from your comment that Hopkins might be one of those schools? In that case, you would only have to report that you retook the class, which probably wouldn't affect your overall GPA but I imagine it would still look pretty bad to med schools if you had several retakes - since it only really makes sense to retake a C or below. So if you had, like, 4 retakes a med school could reasonably assume you got a C or less in 4 of your classes. You'd definitely have some explaining to do.

But it sounds like OP's school will still show the original F in addition to the retake. OP, I strongly suggest that you ask for help. If mental health issues have been interfering with your grades, you might see a therapist. It might also be helpful to reach out to your school's study center. They can help you stay motivated and develop a solid study plan from here on out. It's not impossible for you to turn things around but you've gotten off to a pretty bad start so it'll take extra hard work. Good luck!

Yes that's what I meant! I see. I had assumed it would be wiped off his record, but I just read hs post wrong.

 

[Mwooster]

But do people actually do that? Does that mean people at Hopkins that fail a class on purpose so it gets erased have to report it?

Does the SDN-famous @lalex go to Johns Hopkins?!

To anyone thinking about this, please don't try this. Regardless whether a school wipes out the old grade after a retake or not, AMCAS still finds out.

Just FYI, Hopkins, just like OP's home institution, shows the old grade on the 1st attempt on the transcript as well.

 

[candbgirl]

Although your school may not count the F in your GPA, AMCAS WILL. You must submit all transcripts for every course ever take during college( and high school if you took college classes and received college credit). If you don't you will be setting yourself up for trouble. AMCAS will find out through the College Clearinghouse and ..

 

[lalex]

Does the SDN-famous @lalex go to Johns Hopkins?!

To anyone thinking about this, please don't try this. Regardless whether a school wipes out the old grade after a retake or not, AMCAS still finds out.

Just FYI, Hopkins, just like OP's home institution, shows the old grade on the 1st attempt on the transcript as well.

Haha no. Did you not sense the bitterness in my post?

Wait, they show the first attempt? Then, what's the point of it? Seems pointless if it just isn't factored into GPA but can be seen by future employers and grad schools.

 

[md-2020]

Wait, they show the first attempt? Then, what's the point of it? Seems pointless if it just isn't factored into GPA but can be seen by future employers and grad schools.

That's because it's an internet myth. No gunner pre-meds at JHU actually do that.

 

[IslandStyle808]

1) See school learning specialists/counselor (will teach you how to learn/study/test taking strategies)
2) See school psychologist (will help with balance of family, depression, and academics)

Take this one step at a time, otherwise you will be even worse off than you are now.

 

[TBV]

Even if I retake orgo and get all A's from here on out? Are they really so unforgiving? And what about MCAT/CV? That won't matter at all? @Lost in Translation @Lannister

I don't know of any allo school that will take a grade replacement. They'll see you retook it but your GPA will still have an F

 

[ImmunoLove]

Some schools will allow you to retake a class and have only the second attempt grade show up on your transcript. I'm guessing from your comment that Hopkins might be one of those schools? In that case, you would only have to report that you retook the class, which probably wouldn't affect your overall GPA but I imagine it would still look pretty bad to med schools if you had several retakes - since it only really makes sense to retake a C or below. So if you had, like, 4 retakes a med school could reasonably assume you got a C or less in 4 of your classes. You'd definitely have some explaining to do.

But it sounds like OP's school will still show the original F in addition to the retake. OP, I strongly suggest that you ask for help. If mental health issues have been interfering with your grades, you might see a therapist. It might also be helpful to reach out to your school's study center. They can help you stay motivated and develop a solid study plan from here on out. It's not impossible for you to turn things around but you've gotten off to a pretty bad start so it'll take extra hard work. Good luck!

You would have to report ALL attempts and the grade for each attempt to AMCAS, and the grade for each attempt is factored in you AMCAS GPA (though certainly it may not be factored in at the undergrad institution). It doesn't matter that the transcript doesn't reflect the original grade--it still must be included.

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

You would have to report ALL attempts and the grade for each attempt to AMCAS, and the grade for each attempt is factored in you AMCAS GPA (though certainly it may not be factored in at the undergrad institution). It doesn't matter that the transcript doesn't reflect the original grade--it still must be included.

You're right. Thank you for correcting me. So even if someone was lucky to go to a school that removed retakes from their transcript, they would still need to submit all grades to AMCAS.

 

[lalex]

You're right. Thank you for correcting me. So even if someone was lucky to go to a school that removed retakes from their transcript, they would still need to submit all grades to AMCAS.

What if someone wanted to be dishonest? What stops them?

 

[ImmunoLove]

What if someone wanted to be dishonest? What stops them?

Seriously? Hopefully those who strive to be physicians would aim a little higher on the integrity scale, but often they don't. If they find out-most transcripts mark retakes and grade replacement (and AMCAS knows what schools do and do not show original grades on transcripts), you're toast. Forever. And good riddance, too.

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

What if someone wanted to be dishonest? What stops them?

Well, let's say you take Orgo one time and fail then take it again and get an A. I think most schools would list BOTH attempts AND both grades on your transcript, which has to be submitted to AMCAS. AMCAS obviously uses these to cross-check any grades you list in your primary. But even if they don't record the first attempt grade and simply write "retake," if it appears on your transcript, it'll raise red flags in AMCAS, if you fail to list it.

I'm not sure what would happen if a school erased the first attempt from your transcript entirely. Not sure if schools would even do that. Maybe you wouldn't get caught but I'm not sure it'd be worth trying. Lying on your application is PROBABLY frowned upon.

 

[Gandyy]

Depression because of medical issues, and my father recently got 3 malignant tumors, one of which is a brain tumor

In all honesty, I lost a baby. And it's really ****ed me up. I don't think I'd even write about that regardless.

You have received good advice in the thread. I just wanted to say that you have my condolences.

 

[Lucca]

You need to do better in your science courses. Use your schools learning center, think really hard about what you can do to actually improve. Seek medical help for your personal issues if you have not already. I'm sorry that you are having a hard time but the others are right: if you don't fix your problems now there is a very small chance you will find yourself at any medical school in the future.

The good news is that you are a sophomore. There is still time to fix everything and come out on top.

 

[MerYangBey]

Definitely not a contender for Columbia.

Not much of a contender for any school at this point. Don't worry though, once you realize that being doctor is nothing like the show you've named yourself after, you won't want to go to med school anyway.

Really? why would you even say that? You don't know OP and her motivations. Implying that she doesn't know anything about medicine because she watches a funny show is really inappropriate. Glad you added your expert advice.

 

[johnnytest]

Any reasons why you singled out Columbia? As others have stated it's still difficult to get into any medical school with a ~3.5 GPA as this is the 10th percentile for most schools. I'm sorry to hear that you had a rough year but if medicine is your passion then I'd say to keep working hard and maybe seek some counseling for your depression. You definitely need an upward trend from here on. Going down will pretty much tank your chances. There's also the option of DO (osteopathic medicine) which does not have as high of a GPA/MCAT "bar" but you still need to know why you want to pursue medicine. Best of Luck!

 

[Goro]

Many med schools reward rising trends. Columbia is a school that rewards reinvention.

Very sorry to hear of your woes.

You have a lot of deficits to fix, so start out by visiting your school's learning or education center, as mentioned above. And therapy for your depression issues.

Even if I retake orgo and get all A's from here on out? Are they really so unforgiving? And what about MCAT/CV? That won't matter at all? @Lost in Translation @Lannister

 

[avgn]

That's because it's an internet myth. No gunner pre-meds at JHU actually do that.

No Hopkins gunner fails classes, period

 

[deleted738762]

If you want honesty, yes. Their 10th percentile for GPA is a 3.57 and you can't get there even with perfect 4.0s for the rest of undergrad. At your current rate you'll be struggling to get into DO, so you need to forget all about famous MD names.

Hi,
Are you referring to Columbia 10th percentile? Also where did you find that information.
Thanks

 

[Lucca]

Hi,
Are you referring to Columbia 10th percentile? Also where did you find that information.
Thanks

All GPA / MCAT info for schools can be found on the AAMC's MSAR which can be purchased online. It's recommended that everyone purchase it the year they plan to apply so they can intelligently come up with a school list. It also has a load of other helpful information, including secondary fees, cost of attendance, mission statement, what percentage of matriculants had research / clinical volunteering / nonclinical volunteering / military experience, class size, etc.

 

[WedgeDawg]

I'm sorry that you've had to go through several rough patches in your life recently. I think your first order of business is getting those things figured out and then focusing on schoolwork. As people have suggesting, talking to a counselor or another professional might benefit you. Obviously these are traumatic experiences, but failing to confront them and instead trying to focus on other things (like grades) might be counterproductive, which is why I recommend sorting out those issues before even beginning to tackle things like academics. Take a medical leave from school if you think it's necessary.

Once you have that figured out, understand that as a sophomore who is presumably only 3 semesters into school, you do have some time to repair your GPA. A strong upward trend combined with perhaps a year of upper level postbac work and a stellar MCAT can redeem your chances at MD schools. I wouldn't try to single out a specific school at this point (or really at any point) in your premed career because your (or anyone's) chances of getting into that specific school are extremely low. Particularly a school as selective as Columbia (with an acceptance rate of around 3.5%) Ask anyone who has been through the process and they'll tell you it's a recipe for disappointment.

Grade replacement, no matter what your school tells you, will result in the GPAs for the two (or more) courses being averaged for your AMCAS GPA calculation (which is what ultimately matters). Going forward, it might be a better idea to withdraw from classes if you're in danger of failing rather than trying to make a D or a C. Academically, your biggest concern is your (I'm assuming here) low science GPA, which is one of the most important factors for admission to any medical school. The first thing is obviously to figure out what is going wrong and how you can fix it. The second step is deciding how you want to try to improve your GPA. Some options include taking more science courses during undergrad, doing a postbac, doing an SMP, or doing grade replacement and applying to DO schools. I am not the most knowledgable person about most of these options so I'll leave that to other posters to recommend specific approaches.

 

[mrusmc1223]

I am a sophomore. I got an F in orgo. My school does grade replacement, so if I redo the class the new grade will replace the F for my gpa, but you will still see on my transcript the F.
My gpa is like a 2.6 with the F. I got a C in calc, too, and B's in my other science courses. But ny sociology courses I get A's in.
Just seeing if I should give up all hope or what.

Are you asking in re to applying to the postbac premedical program at Columbia? If so, the program prefers that a student have little to no science courses completed as an undergrad when applying. That being said, if you can get a regrade the F on the transcipt should hold no bearing as long as your overall GPA is at least a 3.0. Now when you retake orgo again at Columbia, they might average all the grades that you have received in Orgo, but if you can keep it above a C than you it shouldn't hinder you from getting accepted. Just make sure you mention an extenuating circumstance to why you received the F initially. I hope that helps.

 

[mwsapphire]

Reading threads like this makes me wonder if anybody has ever heard of Withdrawing from a class when a C is out of reach. You need to see why you're doing so poorly, OP, and you may need some post bacc work just to allow MD schools to be in the picture. What was your gpa before this year? Was this just one bad semester? If you can reinvent yourself and do really well from now and then you still have a chance at MD schools, but I wouldn't hope for Columbia.

 

[Futuredoctor1234]

Hey OP, I know it's been a while since you posted so you may not be looking for advice anymore, but if you are looking for a supportive group that believes in your ability to go to medical school, PM me and I'll get you connected. I know it seems like everybody on here has a 3.7+ GPA, but that's not really the case. First it's all anonymous so people can and do lie, but also people with lower stats aren't just going to brag and post their GPA on here. I think you have found out that a 2.6 won't cut it, but with changed study habits you could definitely pull off a 3.4+. I had somewhere between a 2.9 and a 3.0 at the end of my sophomore fall, but I changed my study habits and did a 180 and got nearly a 4.0 for the rest of college and got into medical school. It is doable. Please please please don't feel down about yourself, you are doing the best you can and people are much braver behind a computer screen. Columbia might be too far of a stretch, but an M.D. is an M.D. (Or replace MD with DO) And with enough effort you'll earn it one day. I believe in you!

 

[CLB_MD]

Focus on bringing those grades up by proactively studying: attend all lectures, OH, review sessions, find online resources, and study everyday. Prep early for the MCAT, and take at least one gap year. In the gap year, you can focus on crafting a great AMCAS application, pursuing research, taking post-bacc courses or programs, and getting more clinical volunteering. Hope everything is ok with you and your family. Good luck.

BTW, not sure if this is relevant, but I attended Columbia undergrad. Know WHY you want to go there; if it's just for reputation (like me), you might end up being sorely disappointed. I was all over the place, majoring in neuroscience, starting clubs, dealing with my dad's heart attack, and holding a part time job. I'm a current MD applicant, and even after one year of post-bacc coursework and clinical volunteering, I still haven't gotten any interview invites and I might need to be a reapplicant. OP, focus on your grades and MCAT and hopefully you'll have an easier time getting in than I am.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

With your current GPA, it's likely that you'll be immediately screened out at most if not all schools, and your application will never be seen by a human being.

Also, taking all your science courses at other institutions will likely appear very suspicious.

Many schools do not employ computer screening, including Columbia. The rest of your points are valid