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Are DO schools "easier" to get into?
- Thread starter UniBoy5
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hahahahahahahahaha this thread is funny because you're asking a question that has no answer. If I had a 40 and 3.9 would I apply D.O. or M.D. or Both??? or if I had a 3.3 and 24 would I apply blah blah blah.... it's all about what they (adcom) think. not you. sorry to burst all of your bubbles. 😱
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And we can see exactly what they think by looking at the average stats. As with any statistic, the correlation becomes weaker as the population size gets smaller.
That's why anecdotes are silly for this issue. But on the whole, it's not really debatable.
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I just went back and read through all the posts. It seems we are all in agreement that generally the stats are (slightly) lower for DO schools than MD schools. I am confused what everyone is arguing about now.
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i think the much more important point is the DOs have all the same rights and privileges as MDs, at least on paper.
that being said, I don't think I've ever met a DO.
that being said, I don't think I've ever met a DO.
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i think the much more important point is the DOs have all the same rights and privileges as MDs, at least on paper.
that being said, I don't think I've ever met a DO.
You probably have and didn't know because they are identical to MDs in practice. I saw a DO for my PCP for 20 years and only found out in college he was a DO.
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i think the much more important point is the DOs have all the same rights and privileges as MDs, at least on paper.
that being said, I don't think I've ever met a DO.
That's because the DO/MD civil war really only exists in pre-med land.
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why is it inconceivable he has never met a DO? i certainly never have, at least in a clinical setting, and i know this for sure.
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It isnt depending on where they grew up. In support of Jagger's post however, I too saw a pediatrician my entire life until I left for college. I contacted him to see about shadowing my senior year of undergrad and it came up that he was a DO. I was shocked. Neither of my parents knew either...and my dad is an MD. I think plenty of DOs get around the "feared" (according to SDN) question "what is a DO," by posting Dr.X rather than Dr. X DO
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It's not inconceivable, it's just possible that he could have met one and never known (then gave my example). So you are sure that in the ER, FP office, Peds, family doctors, etc, you never ran into a DO? Did you ever see a doctor that just had 'Dr X,' on their coat instead of 'X, M.D. ?' Because that could have been the elusive DO. I ran into numerous ones volunteering in hospitals, etc. I guess if your clinical setting was academic, it's more conceivable.
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I live in an 'unfriendly DO' area and still saw one for 20 years, one of the docs that saved my grandfather's life was a DO, the head of the ER department where I volunteered for 2 years was a DO, etc.
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where in general are you located? i don't think DOs are particularly common in my area, at least that i've seen. i always check the person's ID, which is why i know.
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Ahh, here we go, this could have been a problem. A lot of hospitals categorize all physicians as 'MD.' When they print ID badges, it says MD no matter what. This phenomenon happens all over the country (from the stories I've heard). At the hospital I was at in So Cal, there were DO residents with DO on their coats, but MD on their ID tag, and I've heard multiple people on this site say their hospital does it the same way. It could have been part of the issue, who knows though.
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good point. i guess i will never know then. i know at least podiatrists get the correct DPM behind their names at the hospital i go to, but obviously this is a slightly different situation.
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Yeah, I wouldn't try to even make it a point except that I have personally seen it happen and heard various people on the site say it's a common thing.
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I used to get so bent out of shape by these dumb wars...but couldnt care less. I am going to PCOM and cannot wait to start already. I could have gone to NYMC as well...but didnt...who really cares. It is so silly....I really just dont get it. I cant even begin to imagine how many posters were in their interviews "omg omg i just want to help people blah blah blah," then get on SDN that night spewing hate about DOs. If you get into an MD program great! If you get into a DO program great! We are all lucky to have acceptances to whatever schools we will be going to. We are going to be able to fulfill a dream that very few are able to. It should REALLY be about patient care. Not about MD vs DO arguements on SDN. Really pathetic.
MD = DO in practice
You are judged by your level of skill as a doc..not by your degree.
DO schools are easier to get into generally. Some DO schools are harder to get into that some MD schools.
If you are gunning for ROADS go MD. If you are like most other med students you will not have a problem matching.
The education at the more established DO schools (PCOM, DMU, CCOM, MSUCOM,KCOM, UMDNJ,etc) is going to be just as good as the education at many MD schools.
It is easier by stats alone to get into DO.
DO schools DEFINITELY look at the whole applicant more. I can personally attest to this.
I feel like every MD vs DO war could be resolves with the above tenets about DO schools.
MD = DO in practice
You are judged by your level of skill as a doc..not by your degree.
DO schools are easier to get into generally. Some DO schools are harder to get into that some MD schools.
If you are gunning for ROADS go MD. If you are like most other med students you will not have a problem matching.
The education at the more established DO schools (PCOM, DMU, CCOM, MSUCOM,KCOM, UMDNJ,etc) is going to be just as good as the education at many MD schools.
It is easier by stats alone to get into DO.
DO schools DEFINITELY look at the whole applicant more. I can personally attest to this.
I feel like every MD vs DO war could be resolves with the above tenets about DO schools.
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Exactly. You go to Joe Shmoe down in security and say hey I need a badge I am a physician....you get an MD badge. LIkewise for the EMR. Generally you will be in the system as MD as well.
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I used to get so bent out of shape by these dumb wars...but couldnt care less. I am going to PCOM and cannot wait to start already. I could have gone to NYMC as well...but didnt...who really cares. It is so silly....I really just dont get it. I cant even begin to imagine how many posters were in their interviews "omg omg i just want to help people blah blah blah," then get on SDN that night spewing hate about DOs. If you get into an MD program great! If you get into a DO program great! We are all lucky to have acceptances to whatever schools we will be going to. We are going to be able to fulfill a dream that very few are able to. It should REALLY be about patient care. Not about MD vs DO arguements on SDN. Really pathetic.
MD = DO in practice
You are judged by your level of skill as a doc..not by your degree.
DO schools are easier to get into generally. Some DO schools are harder to get into that some MD schools.
If you are gunning for ROADS go MD. If you are like most other med students you will not have a problem matching.
The education at the more established DO schools (PCOM, DMU, CCOM, MSUCOM,KCOM, UMDNJ,etc) is going to be just as good as the education at many MD schools.
It is easier by stats alone to get into DO.
DO schools DEFINITELY look at the whole applicant more. I can personally attest to this.
I feel like every MD vs DO war could be resolves with the above tenets about DO schools.
MD = DO in practice
You are judged by your level of skill as a doc..not by your degree.
DO schools are easier to get into generally. Some DO schools are harder to get into that some MD schools.
If you are gunning for ROADS go MD. If you are like most other med students you will not have a problem matching.
The education at the more established DO schools (PCOM, DMU, CCOM, MSUCOM,KCOM, UMDNJ,etc) is going to be just as good as the education at many MD schools.
It is easier by stats alone to get into DO.
DO schools DEFINITELY look at the whole applicant more. I can personally attest to this.
I feel like every MD vs DO war could be resolves with the above tenets about DO schools.
this.
its funny how virtually every other response in this thread failed to address the OPs question.
Pre meds just like to argue. Or hear themselves speak (post). Probably both.
Hey now, I said this earlier. Where is my thumbs up? 😛
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I don't think it's an excuse or a cop out ... I was just giving an explanation of why people may think they have NEVER seen a DO in a hospital. I know for a fact at the hospital I worked at for two years, all DO residents and attendings had 'MD' on their badge. I saw MD badges over DO coats and even talked to a resident from the closest DO school there who said they just gave it to him that way and he really didn't care (the impression I got was that he didn't have time to care). I also heard bth7 (a DO poster you will know) talking about how his residency/hospital gave him a stamp and nametag that said bth7, MD. I've heard this many, many times.
Also, god ... I am seriously sick of arguing these stupid, inane points. Seriously, I think it was Hoody that said all we pre-meds do is argue with each other with zero percent chance of either side changing their mind 1%. It's something in our stupid, competitive nature or something. And here's the kicker ... were on the same team. We are going to be learning the same crap, competing for a lot of the same residencies, and practicing side by side together in the adult world. It's nuts, and I'm just as guilty of this immature, pointless banter as anyone else. Jesus. So fine, yes, I'm sure people can go their whole lives never seeing a DO, ever with no other explanation than they've just never seen one. If that is really the point that I am arguing against here ... I simply cannot. I don't give a ****.
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This endless debate is so silly.
The PERSON determines the worth, not the letters.
The MAN makes the doctor, not the letters.
The SPIRIT determines the contribution, not the letters.
Who do I want to be my physician? The competent one.
Who do I want to befriend? The person, not the letters.
The PERSON determines the worth, not the letters.
The MAN makes the doctor, not the letters.
The SPIRIT determines the contribution, not the letters.
Who do I want to be my physician? The competent one.
Who do I want to befriend? The person, not the letters.
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in my opinion DO schools are much easier to get into than MD schools
I have only applied to MD schools, because I felt my stats were too high to even apply for DO schools... and I have been accepted to MD schools.... And the reality is that I would rather have an MD after my name than a DO
I am not trying to say DO schools are not competitive... they are competitive... but my personal opinion is that they are no where near as competitive as MD schools... this is just based on averages I have seen of DO schools... I maybe totally wrong though as I haven't applied for DO schools....
But from what I have heard
You can prob get into DO school with a 26-27 MCAT if your GPA is good.... for MD school, even if your GPA is good, I doubt you can get in with a 26-27... actually, I feel that if your MCAT is less than a 30, than the chances significantly reduce... 31 or higher is the magic number I feel like assuming GPA is ok
but in terms of requirements for admission, I feel like DO schools want more upper level science courses more than simply what is required... just something I have a feeling about and have no factual data whatsoever to support this... and no one has told me this either.. just a general impression I have
allopathic schools really dont care if you haven't done upper level science courses if you have done well in general bio, chem, orgo, and physics
I have only applied to MD schools, because I felt my stats were too high to even apply for DO schools... and I have been accepted to MD schools.... And the reality is that I would rather have an MD after my name than a DO
I am not trying to say DO schools are not competitive... they are competitive... but my personal opinion is that they are no where near as competitive as MD schools... this is just based on averages I have seen of DO schools... I maybe totally wrong though as I haven't applied for DO schools....
But from what I have heard
You can prob get into DO school with a 26-27 MCAT if your GPA is good.... for MD school, even if your GPA is good, I doubt you can get in with a 26-27... actually, I feel that if your MCAT is less than a 30, than the chances significantly reduce... 31 or higher is the magic number I feel like assuming GPA is ok
but in terms of requirements for admission, I feel like DO schools want more upper level science courses more than simply what is required... just something I have a feeling about and have no factual data whatsoever to support this... and no one has told me this either.. just a general impression I have
allopathic schools really dont care if you haven't done upper level science courses if you have done well in general bio, chem, orgo, and physics
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Admittedly, I am one of those DO proponents. But everyone agrees on this thread that overall the stats for accepted DO students are lower than MD students. I personally say 'slightly' because I don't see a huge difference between a 27-28 MCAT vs. a 30-31 MCAT, or a 3.4 GPA vs 3.7GPA; I'm saying others may feel differently, this is just me.
So yes, when people ask 'what are my chances' I would respond with 'apply broadly', to me, broadly implies DO schools as well, solely based off of stats. The part I don't understand is why so many people hate on DO schools. The goal is to be a doctor right?
Additionally, most people state to add DO schools because a particular pre-med may not be aware that the option even exists.
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i am not trying to say anything about DO vs MD with this particular post, but you have to admit that the proportion of students with the higher scores/grades you just listed is significantly (in the statistical sense) smaller than the lower ones.
ie the percentiles for the MD averages are significantly higher than the percentiles for the DO averages.
i don't personally think such numbers are a good predictor of success as a physician, but the world we live in loves to rank people. c'est la vie.
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I think that's spot on, especially the bolded part. These threads always turn into a train wreck b/c when anyone does the DO/MD thing people start to go into their kung fu stances and it always morphs into the strength of the degree.
The OP specifically asked is it was easier to get into DO schools not if one degree was superior to the other.
The fact that posters keep trying to pull it in that direction (on every single thread like this) reflects their own neurosis IMO.
I am in a DO heavy region of the country. No one really cares about the letters behind the name around here.
That's the way it should be too. DOs go into primary care at a much higher rate than MDs and primary care physicians are badly needed at this point.
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It's pertinent. The information we're providing helps answer the OP's question of: So is that a lower percentage of applicants get into DO schools because many more apply and many of them have weak credentials? YES.
No. Never.
Obviously.
See answer 1.
Yes, it's about acceptance rates. And he wants to know why they have lower acceptance rates. It's because so many people apply with sub-standard stats, and because there are fewer schools.
I don't lack common sense, i'm not the one avoiding the painfully obvious. When responding to another posters I remark I said (whether it pertains to this argument or not):
I believe a 28/3.6 could get into numerous DO schools, while being very lucky to get into even one MD school. There is a significant gap between MD and DO standards and that's why we've all heard on this board (at least 1 billion times) "just apply DO because you have no real chance at an allopathic school" when somebody with less than stellar stats asks.
Now that is absolutely true. We do know. Hundreds, probably thousands of SDNers, have been through the application process and seen where certain stat combinations typically land you and when you're basically eliminated from competing at MD schools. It's not an opinion thing, it's simple fact. But you responded by basically saying we're all brainwashed, we just regurgitate. Brilliant, try knocking out a 24 MCAT with a 3.3 GPA and applying to MD programs. You'll be trying for quite a while. How do you not know these things? Living up to your pre-meds just like to argue remark nicely.
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Yeah, that chick is PISSED.
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I think we all had a run-in with her on this thread. Angry person.
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Take a look at her MDapps. Probobly because she has a fck ton more clinical exposure than most posters on here. And like me realizes that this $hit doesnt take place in 99 percent of real world medicine and is tired of reading a bunch of BS.
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👍 Words of wisdom.
I'm 3.67/27. I didn't apply Osteo (although looking back I probably should have done so...I just didn't know enough about it to apply). I got 6 MD interviews, 2 acceptances ( one private, one out of state public), and the rest are WL. I'm not saying that I'm the rule. However, I don't think its as easy as the numbers when you're talking about ALL medical schools.
As far as I'm concerned, at the end of the day DO=MD in intelligence, regardless of what the school accepts. We all know and realize that high stats don't necessarily make good doctors.
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A contributing factor that no one mentioned:
Students apply DO and MD, then withdraw their DO applications after an MD acceptance.
P.S. Mine is bigger.
Students apply DO and MD, then withdraw their DO applications after an MD acceptance.
P.S. Mine is bigger.
Yes I agree most people apply to both and even if they paid the outrageous DO payment they will loose it and go MDif they are accepted. When you look at percentiles there is a big difference between a 27 and 30 MCAT score in everyday math 27 is rounded to a 30. Another thing when you do the DO application bad grades are replaced by better grades the MD application does not do that so your GPA is lower and if you do not meet a schools cut off you are not looked at.
So yes it is easier to get in a DO school.
But they (DO) have more opportunities for residencies because they can do MD and DO residencies, but we can only do MD residencies
So yes it is easier to get in a DO school.
But they (DO) have more opportunities for residencies because they can do MD and DO residencies, but we can only do MD residencies
And because of that, maybe then the DOs should only be restricted to DO residencies. At that point, we might see how many really believe in the philosophy.
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It's only been about twenty years since MD residencies were opened to DO graduates. Without question before that, and to many since then, osteopathy has a quack cachet similar to chiropractics. Few people seek out osteopathic treatment in preference to mainstream medical care.
MD vs DO - the degrees are not equivalent to the general public, nor (as pointed out, and all else being equal) to those seeking med school admission, who rarely express a preference for DO schools.
MD vs DO - the degrees are not equivalent to the general public, nor (as pointed out, and all else being equal) to those seeking med school admission, who rarely express a preference for DO schools.
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I'd argue that they are equivalent to the 90 percent of the general pubic that does not know the difference between the degrees.
👍 Happened at the hospital (ER) I worked at... I worked only with 5 DOs for over a year... The director of the ER was a DO...but all the paperwork had "MD" where they signed and their badges just said Dr. X. So even though there were only DOs working in the ER at that time...everything said MD.
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Its been over 50 years. Few people consider DO's to be quacks. There is a huge difference between osteopathy and chiropractics. OMT is an adjunct to mainstream allopathic care. Chiropractics is the primary and only treatment method used. Oh yea the 4 years of medical school + residency makes a big difference between osteopathic medicine and chiropractics. I agree that chiropractics is quackish but to compare modern DO's to chiropracters is just uneducated.
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Meh...the far majority of DOs don't use OMM.
Second why is there more of a distinction between DO vs. MD than Drexel vs. Wash U. I believe the second case has a greater number disparity and yet I don't see people say gezz I will not go to this doctor he has only educated at Drexel (substitute any lower tier MD school).
Obviously there are differences but my point is with the tough entrances requirements, all US DO and MD pre-students are overly qualified for med school.
Second why is there more of a distinction between DO vs. MD than Drexel vs. Wash U. I believe the second case has a greater number disparity and yet I don't see people say gezz I will not go to this doctor he has only educated at Drexel (substitute any lower tier MD school).
Obviously there are differences but my point is with the tough entrances requirements, all US DO and MD pre-students are overly qualified for med school.
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Not likely to happen until there are enough US MD grads to fill all the ACGME residency slots.
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The average patient doesn't know anything about med school or medicine. They don't know that Wash U has higher admissions numbers than Harvard, yet they will assume the Harvard grad is a better doctor b/c of the Harvard name. The same people that refuse to see a DO will be more than willing to go to a Carrib grad b/c they see the MD after his name, even though the DO may have better numbers (GPA, MCAT, USMLE etc).
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I found something that said it was 1985, but maybe that's wrong?
Really? Have the techniques and principles been scientifically proven and subjected to ongoing scientific research, as with mainstream allopathic medicine?
To pretend that osteopathic medicine is mainstream and widely viewed as such is naive.
I recognize that DO schools have provided an entry path for thousands of deserving and well-intended people to become medical care providers. Ultimately, the care most provide is allopathic medicine. I believe many in the patient world still find the DO/osteopathic label to be off-putting.
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I believe that MOST in the patient world have no idea which degree their practitioner holds or even that a DO degree exists. There is virtually no difference between osteopathic and allopathic medicine in today's world. End of story. The fact that you continue to express your distaste with DOs based on degree alone shows YOUR naivete. Certain DO OMM modalities have been proven, some have not (CST). Certain commonly prescribed meds arent proven effective by science yet many allopathic and osteopathic physicians prescribe them. Look at the new studies on SSRIs for example. Most DOs arent using OMM to treat everything under the sun. Besides, if your patient is getting relief from your treatments than your goal as a physician is being fulfilled. Stop being insulting already. This thread just degrades more and more every time i read it.
