md-2020

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I hated Calc 1 and 2 and it hurt my GPAs, but my UG insinuated that it was necessary to be successful for MD admissions. Looking back at course requirements it seems most med schools don't even need it...am I missing something, or did I just jump into my coursework underinformed?

I saw somewhere that only 1/3 of MD schools have any math requirement, and of those only 1/2 want any amount of calc (the rest will settle for some combination of stat/quant reason). Not that it matters for me personally at this point, but if someone could verify this that'd probably be helpful for future pre-meds that aren't mathematically inclined (like me).

Thoughts?


Full disclosure: I suffered my lowest grades in the calc sequence :p It also prevented me from snagging summa cum laude
 
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I saw the same thing. I always thought calc was needed for med school, but it wasnt. Either way, I had no choice but to take it because it was required for my major. I feel your pain on the GPA hit though, had it not been for those 2 classes, my GPA would have been almost perfect. Such is life.
 

blackroses

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There are very few schools that require calculus any more (12 total, I believe). Most of them are in California. You were misinformed. Many schools are now requiring some version of statistics.
 

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Everyone should be fine with a semester of calculus + a semester of stats.

(No calc necessary if you choose your schools well.)
 

blackroses

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Everyone should be fine with a semester of calculus + a semester of stats.
Many poorly informed pre-med advisers insist on telling their advisees that they need to take calculus.
 
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Gandyy

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I hated Calc 1 and 2 and it hurt my GPAs, but my UG insinuated that it was necessary to be successful for MD admissions. Looking back at course requirements it seems most med schools don't even need it...am I missing something, or did I just jump into my coursework underinformed?

I saw somewhere that only 1/3 of MD schools have any math requirement, and of those only 1/2 want any amount of calc (the rest will settle for some combination of stat/quant reason). Not that it matters for me personally at this point, but if someone could verify this that'd probably be helpful for future pre-meds that aren't mathematically inclined (like me).

Thoughts?


Full disclosure: I suffered my lowest grades in the calc sequence :p It also prevented me from snagging summa cum laude
Arent you and Efle supposed to be good at every academic discipline?

I am disappointed :(
 
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md-2020

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Arent you and Efle supposed to be good at every academic discipline?
I don't think my 3.5 sGPA suggests that :D


If you analyze my transcript you would also notice that junior year (my graduating year) significant sGPA padding occurred :p I am far from the strongest in the sciences.
 
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Good riddance. Physics was already terribly ruined to cater to math-hating premeds, so getting rid of calculus is long overdue and much desired.
 
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Gandyy

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Good riddance. Physics was already terribly ruined to cater to math-hating premeds, so getting rid of calculus is long overdue and much desired.
You know I thought I was the only that hated physics.
 

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You know I thought I was the only that hated physics.
I'm basically the rare advocate of calculus-based physics, but college administrations took advantage of AAMC (and medical school) leniency of the physics requirement to create a very terrible, watered down version called algebra-based physics. I hated that and i realized the only way this plague can be eradicated is for schools to phase out physics (and calculus) altogether.

It's a shame really, but i support the recent shift in emphasizing competency-based evaluation for prereqs.
 

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I'm basically the rare advocate of calculus-based physics, but college administrations took advantage of AAMC (and medical school) leniency of the physics requirement to create a very terrible, watered down version called algebra-based physics. I hated that and i realized the only way this plague can be eradicated is for schools to phase out physics (and calculus) altogether.

It's a shame really, but i support the recent shift in emphasizing competency-based evaluation for prereqs.
Well, I just hate physics.

Sorry, I dont have anything else intelligent to say right now.
 
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Well, I just hate physics.

Sorry, I dont have anything else intelligent to say right now.
I don't blame you lol. It's just a mini rant of mine and i'll be happy if AAMC and schools got rid of physics and calculus. Maybe even organic chemistry.
 

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Sure but it might hurt you grade wise if you're numerically challenged.
Come on, calc 1 isn't exactly rocket science. :p

It's exactly like physics - practice a lot and it becomes a breeze.

(Calc 2 might demand more numerical smarts, tho.)
 

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Calc 1 and 2 makes sense to me

Physics 1 and 2 were a different story.

Regardless, calc and stats combo is a safe bet for almost all schools.
 
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Come on, calc 1 isn't exactly rocket science. :p
(Calc 2 might demand more numerical smarts, tho.)
I'll admit I was mainly referring to Calc 2. That class steamrolled me.

Calc 1, even at top schools, can carry a killer (in the bad sense) curve b/c of the shallow material though. Econ kids rocked a 94 average on tests my freshman year, so a mid-80's grade got you a C. Most people (including myself) had AP's in place, but figured it'd be an "easy A." Lol we got learnt.

I remember this vividly b/c I got a 92 on my first test and was rewarded with a B+ (that's a 3.3....)

Not trying to sound bitter about my math experiences, but if a thread like this had existed in 2011 I would def have skipped the calc sequence.
 

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I think both calc and physics have very little to teach pre-meds, and I was an engineering major.
 
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It's just a mini rant of mine and i'll be happy if AAMC and schools got rid of physics and calculus. Maybe even organic chemistry.
Can't say I'd be okay with that, even though o-chem was brutal as well. Would you really be comfortable throwing med students into pre-clinicals having never experienced orgo?

Phys wasn't bad, especially since most schools (including mine) have that god-forsakenly easy pre-med version :p
 

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There were a few schools notorious for requiring calc 2 a while back(JHU, Harvard and I think Washington also). Many have abandoned that and simply allow stat and calc 1 to suffice. While I think it's best to be safe and take Calc-1(or if a med school accepts the AP Credit use your AB Calc credit) there is literally no purpose in taking Calc-2 for med school admission purposes. There maybe legitimately 1 or 2 schools left in the country that require Calc-2. And they might even accept AP Credit for it.

Moral of the Story: Your pre-med adviser telling you this sucks. And 95% of the people who go to him/her don't even realize it.

I do agree this insistence on watered down, basic, overly simplistic algebra based physics on the part of med schools and the AAMC in designing the MCAT is a bit silly(and this is from someone who had the easiest time out of all the pre-reqs with physics). How little of physics you can truly teach and provide a true conceptual understanding about without referencing calculus really takes so much value out of studying the subject. But at the same time the physical sciences part of the MCAT is also IMO definitely the most "learnable" section which is easiest to see significant improvement from studying for so it does benefit pre-meds to an extent.
 

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Can't say I'd be okay with that, even though o-chem was brutal as well. Would you really be comfortable throwing med students into pre-clinicals having never experienced orgo?

Phys wasn't bad, especially since most schools (including mine) have that god-forsakenly easy pre-med version :p
Yep. I think biochemistry covers it pretty nicely.

So I was searching a recent thread regarding which field of medicine is more mathematical, and honestly, I was a bit surprised since I was expecting even basic math to be used ordinarily in medicine.

None of them in practice, except Radiation Oncology and it's not really math in the usual sense.
I don't think any particular specialty that really uses mathematics in the same way that someone in Mathematics would use the term. A lot of specialties use (or should use) arithmetic, but nobody really uses calculus, differential equations, linear algebra, etc. I mean, certainly all of those things, flowing blood, eeg/ekg are based on physics and mathematics, but it isn't like you use it day to day.

That having been said, I have to read an interpret vascular lab studies several times a day. There are a lot of numbers and waveforms. A lot of people memorize the cut-offs and that is about it, but if you understand more, you can appreciate more about the physiology of an individual and change your treatment.
there is little to no mathematics in the practice of medicine.
Simply put, if math isn't even used ordinarily in medicine, then what is the point of requiring premeds to complete the calculus sequence? Why take a math course at all? Sure, statistics helps in analyzing research papers, so having a recommended course is useful. But calculus? No. Physics? The closest thing involving applications of physics in medicine is diagnostic imaging and physiology, and both are fairly visual and described qualitatively using relations that a layperson can easily understand.

Medical school prerequisites should be reduced to only biology (biochemistry, genetics, cell and molecular biology, and physiology) and general chemistry. Get rid of physics, math and organic chemistry (which can be readily explained by biochemistry). Maybe recommend Spanish, psychology and sociology classes, since they are important in caring for the diverse patient population.

But that's it. A simplified system is receptive to anyone and the informal "requirement" of being a biology major is busted. Nontrads and career changers wouldn't have to face a daunting postbacc, and much of the free time spared by shorter requirements can be devoted to taking classes of interest or spending more time on activities.
 
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Yep. I think biochemistry covers it pretty nicely.

So I was searching a recent thread regarding which field of medicine is more mathematical, and honestly, I was a bit surprised since I was expecting even basic math to be used ordinarily in medicine.





Simply put, if math isn't even used ordinarily in medicine, then what is the point of requiring premeds to complete the calculus sequence? Why take a math course at all? Sure, statistics helps in analyzing research papers, so having a recommended course is useful. But calculus? No. Physics? The closest thing involving applications of physics in medicine is diagnostic imaging and physiology, and both are fairly visual and described qualitatively using relations that a layperson can easily understand.

Medical school prerequisites should be reduced to only biology (biochemistry, genetics, cell and molecular biology, and physiology) and general chemistry. Get rid of physics, math and organic chemistry (which can be readily explained by biochemistry). Maybe recommend Spanish, psychology and sociology classes, since they are important in caring for the diverse patient population.

But that's it. A simplified system is receptive to anyone and the informal "requirement" of being a biology major is busted. Nontrads and career changers wouldn't have to face a daunting postbacc, and much of the free time spared by shorter requirements can be devoted to taking classes of interest or spending more time on activities.
I really don't like this type of thinking, it sounds like an advanced version of a middle schooler complaining "hurr why do we have to learn the quadratic formula, I'm never going to use it in real life." College curricula is meant to expose you to various types of material and modes of thinking, regardless of what path you choose to pursue. Why have any prerequisites in the first place? Why not just go straight to medical school? If you scored well on the MCAT to be considered for acceptance, doesn't that mean you have a good grasp on the foundation material that medicine is based on? It's not about requiring relevant material, it's about intellectual pursuit and developing a curiosity for learning in areas beyond just medicine. The value in learning something is not always dependent on whether you're going to be using it frequently in your profession.

It hurts to see these naive comments about math. You shouldn't take math to become a good med student/doctor, you should take it so you're not dumb. Same goes for physics and whatever other courses are not directly connected with what you will study in medical school. So, no, I hope schools don't get rid of those courses because people suck at them.
 

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I really don't like this type of thinking, it sounds like an advanced version of a middle schooler complaining "hurr why do we have to learn the quadratic formula, I'm never going to use it in real life." College curricula is meant to expose you to various types of material and modes of thinking, regardless of what path you choose to pursue. Why have any prerequisites in the first place? Why not just go straight to medical school? If you scored well on the MCAT to be considered for acceptance, doesn't that mean you have a good grasp on the foundation material that medicine is based on? It's not about requiring relevant material, it's about intellectual pursuit and developing a curiosity for learning in areas beyond just medicine. The value in learning something is not always dependent on whether you're going to be using it frequently in your profession.

It hurts to see these naive comments about math. You shouldn't take math to become a good med student/doctor, you should take it so you're not dumb. Same goes for physics and whatever other courses are not directly connected with what you will study in medical school. So, no, I hope schools don't get rid of those courses because people suck at them.
College students should make their own decisions of taking math and physics classes. The math and physics requirements mandated by AAMC and medical schools do far too much damage that they are counterproductive.

The issue isn't that students suck at these courses but that these courses are inherently worthless. Calculus doesn't help anyone who isn't a physics/engineering/economics/finance major. Physics is only useful if it is calculus-based, and even then it is only helpful for aforementioned majors. Why waste faculty time teaching courses to people outside these majors who aren't even interested?

Medical school requirements are only there to ensure the applicant is well rounded and has the necessary background. Physics and math don't even address this.
 
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Simply put, if math isn't even used ordinarily in medicine, then what is the point of requiring premeds to complete the calculus sequence?
Medical Schools don't care what you learn in college. They're using it as an expensive filter. If they wanted they could probably recruit out of high school and shove everything you really need to know into one summer semester.
 
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Medical Schools don't care what you learn in college. They're using it as an expensive filter. If they wanted they could probably recruit out of high school and shove everything you really need to know into one summer semester.
There are BS-MD programs, though they usually take 7 years.
 

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There are BS-MD programs, though they usually take 7 years.
yea but those BS MD programs often teach mostly upper divsion bios that just make it easier to transition into the 4 years of actual med school.

Most undergrads dont take those level and specific of courses. Sometimes those courses are specific to the school too, and are non-transferable. Thats why if you drop out of a BS/MD you are hurting in so many aspects.
 

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I made it through it Calc 2, 3, Diff Eq, and numerical methods. It was character building :D
 
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I don't blame you lol. It's just a mini rant of mine and i'll be happy if AAMC and schools got rid of physics and calculus. Maybe even organic chemistry.
I'm supporting your organic chem removal :horns:. I think at one point this summer, there was talk of removing physics but never executed. If they remove it now, I am going to be frustrated cause I had to lose my income making room for it.
 

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Medical Schools don't care what you learn in college. They're using it as an expensive filter. If they wanted they could probably recruit out of high school and shove everything you really need to know into one summer semester.
Much of the value of going to college is just in the content you get; it also simply learning to be a student and have the ability to process, synthesize and integrate large amounts of material that you will see in medical school.
 
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Don't a lot of the prereq classes for the MCAT have at least calc I as a prereq? At my school, we have to at least get to calc I and take a semester of stats.
 

gonnif

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Don't a lot of the prereq classes for the MCAT have at least calc I as a prereq? At my school, we have to at least get to calc I and take a semester of stats.
None actually. MCAT has no calc. Algebra Physics is acceptable. Had a a recent long-time MD and professor from Keck who said he used Calculus once in entire medical career and I dont recall what it was for.

Calculus is essentially a holdover from the 1910 Flexnor report that redefined premedical and medical education in this country. The new Core Competencies include the below on math

Quantitative Reasoning: Applies quantitative reasoning and appropriate mathematics to describe or explain phenomena in the natural world.

https://www.aamc.org/initiatives/admissionsinitiative/competencies/

It is interesting to note that of the 15 Core Competencies, Science knowledge was intentionally listed last
 
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I think that despite having Calculus phased out of pre-requisite, it really doesn't matter because most schools still expect you to take Calculus for your general education and it is a required class for most science majors
 

gonnif

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Well I'm glad it took the medical establishment only 100 years to re-assess its arbitrary requirements. :thumbup:
Having a solid and difficult undergraduate curriculum to produce student who can deal with difficult subject matter in medical school wasnt arbitrary. Prior to Flexnor, medical education in this country would make today's worst off shore school look like a center of academic excellence. Flexnor wasnt a physician but an education specialist who realize the capacity and skills to learn and master copious material and techniques was the key to making good medical students who in turn to become good doctors. That requirement is now being shifted directly via competencies rather than the indirect metric of BCPM. But changing an entrenched and expected approach, like changing corporate culture in merged businesses, is very difficult.
 

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should have taken calc bc ap test
AP Calc, even with credits assigned on college transcripts, doesnt mean the medical school will accept the class as fulfilling a prerequisite. This needs to be checked on a school by school basis.

BTW, I am noticing some schools now making some interesting notes on Calculus and Stats

http://www.upstate.edu/com/admissions/faqs.php
We require the following prerequisite courses:
...
Statistics*** (3hrs)
...
*** Calculus will not meet the statistics prerequisite.
 

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AP Calc, even with credits assigned on college transcripts, doesnt mean the medical school will accept the class as fulfilling a prerequisite. This needs to be checked on a school by school basis.

BTW, I am noticing some schools now making some interesting notes on Calculus and Stats

http://www.upstate.edu/com/admissions/faqs.php
We require the following prerequisite courses:
...
Statistics*** (3hrs)
...
*** Calculus will not meet the statistics prerequisite.
Luckily all of mine accepted! Yea also took stats in case
 

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I really don't like this type of thinking, it sounds like an advanced version of a middle schooler complaining "hurr why do we have to learn the quadratic formula, I'm never going to use it in real life." College curricula is meant to expose you to various types of material and modes of thinking, regardless of what path you choose to pursue. Why have any prerequisites in the first place? Why not just go straight to medical school? If you scored well on the MCAT to be considered for acceptance, doesn't that mean you have a good grasp on the foundation material that medicine is based on? It's not about requiring relevant material, it's about intellectual pursuit and developing a curiosity for learning in areas beyond just medicine. The value in learning something is not always dependent on whether you're going to be using it frequently in your profession.

It hurts to see these naive comments about math. You shouldn't take math to become a good med student/doctor, you should take it so you're not dumb. Same goes for physics and whatever other courses are not directly connected with what you will study in medical school. So, no, I hope schools don't get rid of those courses because people suck at them.
Said like someone who loves math. Your argument of "you should take it so you're not dumb" can be applied to literally anything.

You should live on the street for a year so you're not dumb. You should work in retail for a year so you're not dumb. You should take at least 10 religious studies classes so you're not dumb. You should get a Ph.D. so you're not dumb. You should learn at least 3 programming languages so you're not dumb.

Thank goodness medical schools don't prescribe to your idea of taking unrelated subjects so you aren't dumb, or no one would ever successfully complete the list of prerequisites.
 

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I think that despite having Calculus phased out of pre-requisite, it really doesn't matter because most schools still expect you to take Calculus for your general education and it is a required class for most science majors
Most don't.
Stats is useful, though.
 
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Spirit of the Student Doc

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There are still a number of MD schools that require one semester of Calc OR a statistics course.


I've never understood the reasoning behind this. These aren't exactly similar.

Edit: Also, one DO school requires 8 credit hours of Physics or a 3 credit Stats course. :thinking: How many people are choosing the physics option?

I'm probably going to apply to this school and a few people I know..... no one has chosen Physics that I know of. Those that do.... did so for other reasons and happened to apply to this school.
 
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Spirit of the Student Doc

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I guess they just want math

Yeah, it's interesting reading some of the requirements for various schools though.

Edit: My memory from a year ago may be suspect or I can't find the link for the school I had posted about earlier. If you read it before I edited this post please disregard.
 
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Calc class in 4 hours and I made heaps of coffee to live through an afternoon lecture of math.

My advisor as well insisted on it. Had I know would have def chosen wiser -_-

Been putting this class off for some time now, and now finally got to deal with it.

I pray by the end my GPA doesn’t suffer. I like learning new things, but when confronted with some of this material, I hit multiple brick walls.
 

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Yeah, it's interesting reading some of the requirements for various schools though. South of me, One DO school requires a full year of each Calc AND Physics (along w/ other courses). The funny part, in the region they're more stringent than all the MD schools (5) and all the other DO schools(6ish? maybe more)).

I'd probably rate them as the weakest school in regards to how their students match as well. Definitely not applying there.
Is this a specific state
 

Spirit of the Student Doc

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Calc class in 4 hours and I made heaps of coffee to live through an afternoon lecture of math.

My advisor as well insisted on it. Had I know would have def chosen wiser -_-

Been putting this class off for some time now, and now finally got to deal with it.

I pray by the end my GPA doesn’t suffer. I like learning new things, but when confronted with some of this material, I hit multiple brick walls.
I feel you.

I'm taking Pre-Calc cause I wanted to fill in the hours and I though it'd be an easy A. The "unique" teaching style has left me extremely confused. I'm done risking my GPA w/ Math. I'm done after this course and in No way has Pre-Calc made me feel prepared for Calc. My hardest courses have been College Algebra and Stats (I didn't fail 'em or anything like that.... but the 2-3 HW assignments a week and the nearly biweekly tests are maddening for someone who is constantly short on time as I am.... On a side note I've found the professor in both those courses to be very nice people.)

Is this a specific state
I sent you a message w/ a link.
 
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I feel you.

I'm taking Pre-Calc cause I wanted to fill in the hours and I though it'd be an easy A. The "unique" teaching style has left me extremely confused. I'm done risking my GPA w/ Math. I'm done after this course and in No way has Pre-Calc made me feel prepared for Calc. My hardest courses have been College Algebra and Stats (I didn't fail 'em or anything like that.... but the 2-3 HW assignments a week and the nearly biweekly tests are maddening for someone who is constantly short on time as I am.... On a side note I've found the professor in both those courses to be very nice people.)



I sent you a message w/ a link.
The only good thing I lucked out on is the professor, who out of the 7 options, was the best out of all of them. But we have surprise quizzes and moves fast. This is one class where the instructor is of huge importance.

I thought about doing the precalc thing. Especially after first week’s diagnostic quiz from precalc we all averaged a 65% on and he advised a lot of us to drop lol…

I just keep telling myself that after this semester – never in my life ever again.

The only good thing is I have Science Calculus. Its basically for pre-meds and the questions on the test end up looking more like physics than calc.
 

Spirit of the Student Doc

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The only good thing I lucked out on is the professor, who out of the 7 options, was the best out of all of them. But we have surprise quizzes and moves fast. This is one class where the instructor is of huge importance.

I thought about doing the precalc thing. Especially after first week’s diagnostic quiz from precalc we all averaged a 65% on and he advised a lot of us to drop lol…

I just keep telling myself that after this semester – never in my life ever again.

The only good thing is I have Science Calculus. Its basically for pre-meds and the questions on the test end up looking more like physics than calc.

Some of this becomes extremely useful in upper level Chem courses. So, if you haven't taken, or are taking more, you have that going for you.

Best of luck though (You're clearly in a tougher class than I am)
 
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Some of this becomes extremely useful in upper level Chem courses. So, if you haven't taken, or are taking more, you have that going for you.

Best of luck though (You're clearly in a tougher class than I am)
I hear - for physical chemistry especially.

Its all watered down comparison to Diff. Equations some premeds take :bag:

Best of luck in your class as well.
 
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College students should make their own decisions of taking math and physics classes. The math and physics requirements mandated by AAMC and medical schools do far too much damage that they are counterproductive.

The issue isn't that students suck at these courses but that these courses are inherently worthless. Calculus doesn't help anyone who isn't a physics/engineering/economics/finance major. Physics is only useful if it is calculus-based, and even then it is only helpful for aforementioned majors. Why waste faculty time teaching courses to people outside these majors who aren't even interested?

Medical school requirements are only there to ensure the applicant is well rounded and has the necessary background. Physics and math don't even address this.
What? What damage do they do? I don't understand. Learning something is damaging? Again, getting a bad grade or sucking at a subject is not a valid reason to exclude it. We are talking about general math and physics here - have you even taken an advanced course in math or physics? They make the requirements you're whining about seem like a joke. No, these courses aren't worthless, they make you a well-rounded applicant like you mentioned in your last sentence. Convince me that the prerequisites you think should be required REALLY make you a better applicant. Does all the stuff you learned about ecology in gen bio really contribute to anything in medical school? How about stoichiometry in gen chem? Like I said, you can learn all the foundation material by just studying something like a comprehensive MCAT guide, so why is this not the only prerequisite for preparation? I don't know what you're talking about when it comes to interest, I found my physical chemistry class really interesting, for example. I hate genetics. I hate anatomy.

Said like someone who loves math. Your argument of "you should take it so you're not dumb" can be applied to literally anything.

You should live on the street for a year so you're not dumb. You should work in retail for a year so you're not dumb. You should take at least 10 religious studies classes so you're not dumb. You should get a Ph.D. so you're not dumb. You should learn at least 3 programming languages so you're not dumb.

Thank goodness medical schools don't prescribe to your idea of taking unrelated subjects so you aren't dumb, or no one would ever successfully complete the list of prerequisites.
lol

I hate math, although I'll admit I consider myself to be pretty good at it. You missed the point. We're talking about college and why medical schools require you to do certain things in college curricula. Nobody said anything about life experiences, those are looked at via extracurricular activities, not a transcript. Like I said before, these are general prerequisites, nobody is requiring you to take advanced courses or get a Ph.D. They are requiring you, however, to have at least a general knowledge of things outside of medicine.

Oh and don't worry, the higher ups in charge of these things aren't as dense and narrow minded as you. These "unrelated" requirements aren't going away anytime soon.
 

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What? What damage do they do? I don't understand. Learning something is damaging? Again, getting a bad grade or sucking at a subject is not a valid reason to exclude it. We are talking about general math and physics here - have you even taken an advanced course in math or physics? They make the requirements you're whining about seem like a joke. No, these courses aren't worthless, they make you a well-rounded applicant like you mentioned in your last sentence. Convince me that the prerequisites you think should be required REALLY make you a better applicant. Does all the stuff you learned about ecology in gen bio really contribute to anything in medical school? How about stoichiometry in gen chem? Like I said, you can learn all the foundation material by just studying something like a comprehensive MCAT guide, so why is this not the only prerequisite for preparation? I don't know what you're talking about when it comes to interest, I found my physical chemistry class really interesting, for example. I hate genetics. I hate anatomy.
Medical schools and AAMC were initially stressing calculus and physics because they view medicine as a physical system. That's fine, and I partially agree with that. However, by requiring watered-down, garbage classes like algebra-based physics, they are defeating their objective. The simplest and most effective route is to require both calculus and calculus-based physics, but that didn't happen. Instead, medical schools are being flexible with premeds taking the easy way out, and that actually worsened the problem. They didn't learn many important concepts in physics, which engineers/physicists/chemists and even business majors have to learn, so they struggle. Such a system allows university administrators to foolishly authorize a separate algebra-based physics class (as well as watered down calculus classes), which enrage professors who are forced to teach them. Hence, such requirements and inconsistency prove to be utterly damaging.

Additionally, physics and math don't make premeds well-rounded. Rather, they waste the premeds' time when they aren't interested, they waste professors' time teaching watered down courses for no reason, they waste time for medical schools who don't even use these concepts in their curriculum etc. What makes premeds well rounded are the social sciences and humanities courses. Such courses show premeds about the society they are part of and their important duties to the population. Such knowledge and skills are very valuable in caring for the diverse population.

Courses like ecology actually play a very powerful role in understanding cancer biology, especially the tumor microenvironment. Even talking at a macroscopic scale, ecology is tied very closely to sociology and anthropology in understanding population dynamics in certain areas, which is very helpful for those interested in primary care and rural medicine.

Stoichiometry is important as well in measuring various chemical properties of drugs, but the key asset of general chemistry is understanding equilibrium reactions, which is absolutely critical for understanding physiology and homeostasis. Other general chemistry principles are useful in assessing pharmacology. Physical chemistry is an excellent class, and I am happy you enjoyed it. Of course, for me, it just generalizes whatever general chemistry says so superficially, it's redundant for an average premed/career-changer who just wants to go to medical school.

However, physics and calculus come no where close to being important in medicine. They don't make anyone well-rounded but waste time. AAMC can't be blamed here because the MCAT assesses necessary physical principles through passage analysis, and as mentioned previously, self-learning physics (or even through a prep course) is an easily learnable skill.

And yeah, I took advanced courses in physics and math, but such university tracks demand me to take challenging introductory classes (with a crap ton of calculus, linear algebra and differential equations). It was certainly meaningful of course, but the biology/premed-route take the easy way out. Some top universities saw through the crap and decided it was of best interest to mandate difficult (calculus-based) introductory physics classes for premeds/biology majors. These universities receive my utmost respect and admiration.
 
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Honestly, I hated calculus, and got straight B's in all 3 classes. It was pretty much a GPA anchor for the next 3 years. However, I think if I had taken it later, rather than my freshman year, I would have done much better and enjoyed it much more. I think I would have really found it interesting to study and learn the techniques and to understand them (as opposed to not studying at all which was my general modus operandi as a freshman).