Are most podiatry graduates finding jobs?

[daffyduckdodger]

only a 14% growth rate. I heard its because podiatrists only practice in groups and there are not that many podiatrists, so there is a lack of residency options

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[bobtheweazel]

Since there's a cap on enrollment and graduating class sizes used to be larger, any growth rate in potential jobs is probably good news.

A lot of doctors practice in groups, that's the way all of medicine is going. But no, not all podiatrists practice in groups.

If you look at it as a specialty, there are about as many podiatrists as there are dermatologists. So it may not be the largest specialty, but it's not the smallest either.

I don't understand the lack of residency options thing. There is only one option and everyone knows that from the beginning, a 3 year residency in podiatric medicine and surgery.

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[daffyduckdodger]

So you would say pod school still pays off?

 

[bobtheweazel]

So you would say pod school still pays off?

Depends on what you mean by pay off. It's not like pharmacy (way oversaturated) or dentistry (getting saturated), you'll get a job. On average pods are making in the mid 200,000s but you may not necessarily make that starting out (although it does happen). There's also the fact that podiatry residency is only 3 years. If you go to MD school, most residencies would be 4 years and surgical residencies would be 5+ years. So with podiatry you can get out and start making money a little sooner. Last thing, hourly, podiatrist pay is comparable to any other doctor. Podiatrist average work week though is right at 40 hours. A lot of other specialties put in a lot more hours which usually translates to more money.

Whether it's worth it is up to the individual.

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[daffyduckdodger]

Depends on what you mean by pay off. It's not like pharmacy (way oversaturated) or dentistry (getting saturated), you'll get a job. On average pods are making in the mid 200,000s but you may not necessarily make that starting out (although it does happen). There's also the fact that podiatry residency is only 3 years. If you go to MD school, most residencies would be 4 years and surgical residencies would be 5+ years. So with podiatry you can get out and start making money a little sooner. Last thing, hourly, podiatrist pay is comparable to any other doctor. Podiatrist average work week though is right at 40 hours. A lot of other specialties put in a lot more hours which usually translates to more money.

Whether it's worth it is up to the individual.

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Okay.Its just thats seeing a lot of information on "residency shortage" on sdn sort of made me think that it was way oversaturated you know.

 

[bobtheweazel]

Okay.Its just thats seeing a lot of information on "residency shortage" on sdn sort of made me think that it was way oversaturated you know.

There is no residency shortage (although there used to be). In the last match, almost 98% of new DPM grads were placed in a residency. That's higher than the MD residency placement rate.

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[bobtheweazel]

So if you're that worried about a residency, don't go to MD school, lol. And DO placement is even lower than MD.

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[Weirdy]

Okay.Its just thats seeing a lot of information on "residency shortage" on sdn sort of made me think that it was way oversaturated you know.

Shortage was 3-4 years ago.
Fixed now with surplus for residents who didn't match previous year.

 

[mrjbb]

So if you're that worried about a residency, don't go to MD school, lol. And DO placement is even lower than MD.

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There isn't a lack of MD residencies for US grads. 27k PGY-1 spots and 18.8k US grads in 2016. There were over 30k positions applied to by 42k applicants. Manny of the applicants that didn't match were FMG's or IMG's.

As for US grads that didn't match, their reasons were far from a lack of residency spots, but mainly because of low USMLE scores, lack of guidance in choosing which programs to apply to, not being competitive enough (USMLE wise) for their choice of specialty, lack of interviewing skills and a failed STEP 1 or STEP 2 at least once, just to name a few.

US grads are increasing, eventually leading to less US grads being able to match into their first choice of specialty as less residency spots will open up until congress calls for an increase in the GME budget. Plus those that didn't match this year, a majority will match next year.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Depends on what you mean by pay off. It's not like pharmacy (way oversaturated) or dentistry (getting saturated), you'll get a job. On average pods are making in the mid 200,000s but you may not necessarily make that starting out (although it does happen). There's also the fact that podiatry residency is only 3 years. If you go to MD school, most residencies would be 4 years and surgical residencies would be 5+ years. So with podiatry you can get out and start making money a little sooner. Last thing, hourly, podiatrist pay is comparable to any other doctor. Podiatrist average work week though is right at 40 hours. A lot of other specialties put in a lot more hours which usually translates to more money.

Whether it's worth it is up to the individual.

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Agree with what you are saying.

I have family in podiatry, but she is salaried working at the local hospital. She grosses around 120K (so, more like 80-70K take home). One trend she points out to me is like all the other professions in medicine, more and more new graduates are getting sucked up by the hospital systems because new docs are desperate to pay off their student loans via public service forgiveness. I have a feeling this is delaying the startup of pod clinics and small business.

Also, the salary for pods fluctuate. You can make as little as 70K/year to millions of dollars depending on your specific practice. One aspect I really like about podiatry is that you have somewhat of a more relaxed surgery schedule (not that breaking hammertoes and reconstructing ankles isn't stressful!) than other surgeons. My cousin rarely has any midnight calls, and she gets to leave most of her work at work when she clocks out around 6 or 7.

Im a little puzzled why Pod training is a total of 7 years however. I would think with 4 years of pod school you could do most procedures, similar to how dentists are out practicing after 4 years. 7 years seems like a long time.

 

[bobtheweazel]

There isn't a lack of MD residencies for US grads. 27k PGY-1 spots and 18.8k US grads in 2016. There were over 30k positions applied to by 42k applicants. Manny of the applicants that didn't match were FMG's or IMG's.

As for US grads that didn't match, their reasons were far from a lack of residency spots, but mainly because of low USMLE scores, lack of guidance in choosing which programs to apply to, not being competitive enough (USMLE wise) for their choice of specialty, lack of interviewing skills and a failed STEP 1 or STEP 2 at least once, just to name a few.

US grads are increasing, eventually leading to less US grads being able to match into their first choice of specialty as less residency spots will open up until congress calls for an increase in the GME budget. Plus those that didn't match this year, a majority will match next year.

I should've been more clear, I was joking in part. The MD residency placement last cycle after scramble/SOAP for new grads was about 96% and the DPM residency placement last cycle after scramble/MPII was about 98%.

I didn't mean that there is a shortage of MD residency spots, only that the DPM placement rate is technically higher and so if that was OPs only reason for not choosing a profession, then they should technically not choose MD/DO when DPM has a higher residency match rate. Partially joking, partially serious.

And yes, once you count foreign graduates, MDs who hadn't matched in previous years, and DOs that compete for PGY1 spots, there are about two applicants per position. It's not like that for podiatry.

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[bobtheweazel]

Im a little puzzled why Pod training is a total of 7 years however. I would think with 4 years of pod school you could do most procedures, similar to how dentists are out practicing after 4 years. 7 years seems like a long time.

The reality of the situation is that we are in an MD dominated healthcare system, so to an extent we must abide by the rules and standards set by/for the MDs. When podiatrists of yore began trying to get jobs in hospitals or get the scope to work on the ankle and leg they could only achieve it through mimicking the MD education and training. The closer to MD education and training we got the more privileges we got. MDs, legislators, and the public expect a modern physician and surgeon to have extensive knowledge of the human body and medicine outside of their specialty. MDs, legislators, and the public expect a physician to have completed at least a 3 year residency. The shortest MD residencies are 3 years and so that has kinda just been accepted as the minimum requirement. Podiatrists with no residency or 1 year of residency would be lucky to be privileged in forefoot surgery, that's just the way it is. A modern podiatrist, with three years of medical and surgical residency experience, are allowed to work on the foot, ankle, distal leg, in some states even up to the hip (soft tissue only). They have full prescription rights. They can independently do H&Ps and admit patients. All things that were only gained by increasing education and training to a level where everyone (MDs, legislators, public) could clearly see that our education and training is comparable to the MDs.

Dentists are a bit of a different story since they haven't really had much of an opportunity to expand their scope of practice outside of the mouth. But those who have, like the dental specialty of oral and maxillofacial surgery, are required to do a 4 year residency after dental school. That allows them to operate on the head and neck.

So unless you want to just work nonsurgically on the foot and surgically on the forefoot, with probably no rearfoot, ankle or leg privileges, require supervision by an MD to perform certain procedures or admit a patient to the hospital, then you definitely want to do at least a 3 year residency. Technically, it's not like you have a choice anymore, you have to do a 3 year residency, but I think you get the point.

I hope none of that came off as rude, because I didn't mean it to. A lot of people say the same thing. People think that its a con of podiatry to have to spend three years in residency. I think its actually a pro though. The kind of training you can get in residency is priceless. It's an opportunity to learn from experienced physicians and surgeons in a wide range of specialties and its an opportunity to get exposure to the full spectrum of human diseases and injuries. That's like a life changing experience that you can't get anywhere but in a residency.

 

[GypsyHummus]

The reality of the situation is that we are in an MD dominated healthcare system, so to an extent we must abide by the rules and standards set by/for the MDs. When podiatrists of yore began trying to get jobs in hospitals or get the scope to work on the foot and leg they could only achieve it through mimicking the MD education and training. The closer to MD education and training we got the more privileges we got. MDs, legislators, and the public expect a modern physician and surgeon to have extensive knowledge of the human body and medicine outside of their specialty. MDs, legislators, and the public expect a physician to have completed at least a 3 year residency. The shortest MD residencies are 3 years and so that has kinda just been accepted as the minimum requirement. Podiatrists with no residency or 1 year of residency would be lucky to be privileged in forefoot surgery, that's just the way it is. A modern podiatrist, with three years of medical and surgical residency experience, are allowed to work on the foot, ankle, distal leg, in some states even up to the hip (soft tissue only). They have full prescription rights. They can independently do H&Ps and admit patients. All things that were only gained by increasing education and training to a level where everyone (MDs, legislators, public) could clearly see that our education and training is comparable to the MDs.

Dentists are a bit of a different story since they haven't really had much of an opportunity to expand their scope of practice outside of the mouth. But those who have, like the dental specialty of oral and maxillofacial surgery, are required to do a 4 year residency after dental school. That allows them to operate on the head and neck.

So unless you want to just work nonsurgically on the foot and surgically on the forefoot, with probably no rearfoot, ankle or leg privileges, require supervision by an MD to perform certain procedures or admit a patient to the hospital, then you definitely want to do at least a 3 year residency. Technically, it's not like you have a choice anymore, you have to do a 3 year residency, but I think you get the point.

I hope none of that came off as rude, because I didn't mean it to. A lot of people say the same thing. People think that its a con of podiatry to have to spend three years in residency. I think its actually a pro though. The kind of training you can get in residency is priceless. It's an opportunity to learn from experienced physicians and surgeons in a wide range of specialties and its an opportunity to get exposure to the full spectrum of human diseases and injuries. That's like a life changing experience that you can't get anywhere but in a residency.

Oh no worries, you did not come off as rude at all.

 

[mrjbb]

I should've been more clear, I was joking in part. The MD residency placement last cycle after scramble/SOAP for new grads was about 96% and the DPM residency placement last cycle after scramble/MPII was about 98%.

I didn't mean that there is a shortage of MD residency spots, only that the DPM placement rate is technically higher and so if that was OPs only reason for not choosing a profession, then they should technically not choose MD/DO when DPM has a higher residency match rate. Partially joking, partially serious.

And yes, once you count foreign graduates, MDs who hadn't matched in previous years, and DOs that compete for PGY1 spots, there are about two applicants per position. It's not like that for podiatry.

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Gotcha. No worries.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Agree with what you are saying.

Hey if you don't mind me asking, how long your Pod family member has been in the field? Thanks!