Are physicians actually smart or just hardworking?

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Lawgiver

Lawgiver

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Because if doctors were as smart as the public thinks they are, why do people that go to med school dont instead build their own multimillion/billion dollar business, say like the people that founded twitter or facebook or anyone of the smaller sites that still generate millions for their founders? So to me it seems physicians are just smart enough to realize they are not actually smart enough to become millionaires using their own creativity, so they settle for medicine. I mean many internet and other self made millionaires make in a week what most doctors make in a year.

Some truth in all this?
 
Somewhere out there there is a study that says that doctors on average have an IQ about 120-130 which is pretty intelligent (about 2 standard deviations above the mean).

Building a multimillion dollar buisiness is harder than you think and there is a lot more risk than going through school. For every multi-million dollar business, there are hundreds of thousands that aren't even close.

Being a physician is one of the most stable, well paying and well respected professions out there. Yes it has a ceiling to what you can make but the risks are lower than starting a business.
 
They are usually both. I'm not really sure what to make of your bizarre claim that intelligence is directly reflected in ones ability or desire to build a big business. Is Joe Francis smarter than your average neurosurgeon because he made a bunch of money by founding Girls Gone Wild?
 
Instatewaiter said:
Somewhere out there there is a study that says that doctors on average have an IQ about 120-130 which is pretty intelligent (about 2 standard deviations above the mean).

Building a multimillion dollar buisiness is harder than you think and there is a lot more risk than going through school. For every multi-million dollar business, there are hundreds of thousands that aren't even close.

Being a physician is one of the most stable, well paying and well respected professions out there. Yes it has a ceiling to what you can make but the risks are lower than starting a business.
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I was surprised by that 130 IQ, which I think is too high. 1 standard deviation is where I think most physicians are, but 2 stdv is extremely high...
 
mcloaf said:
They are usually both. I'm not really sure what to make of your bizarre claim that intelligence is directly reflected in ones ability or desire to build a big business. Is Joe Francis smarter than your average neurosurgeon because he made a bunch of money by founding Girls Gone Wild?
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That Joe Francis seems very smart to me. Does not have to go thru med school to have all the pretty girls surounding him, whom actually make money for him instead. FYI, even IQ tests are skewed since they are written by a group of ppl (who life and academic experience really much similar to pre-med students)
 
mcloaf said:
They are usually both. I'm not really sure what to make of your bizarre claim that intelligence is directly reflected in ones ability or desire to build a big business. Is Joe Francis smarter than your average neurosurgeon because he made a bunch of money by founding Girls Gone Wild?
Click to expand...
That involves a lot of luck, but there is not so much luck in becoming a physician...
 
I don't know how smart doctors are, but you don't need to be that smart to be a doctor. You don't even really think that much as a doctor. It's mostly just algorithms. I think having a good memory is more important than anything else.
 
Just to propagate this discussion into the abyss of darkness, because I'm just that bored, how are we defining 'smarter'?
 
What about doctors who found their own multimillion dollar practices/groups?
 
Success in business has just as much to do with luck as anything else. Don't forget the near requirement for exploitation.

Zuckerberg was not the first one to come up with a social media site. He didn't even come up with the best one. HE created something and got lucky that it took off. He also may or may not have taken advantage of a few very wealthy partners.

The same story goes for most companies.
 
cliquesh said:
I don't know how smart doctors are, but you don't need to be that smart to be a doctor. You don't even really think that much as a doctor. It's mostly just algorithms. I think having a good memory is more important than anything else.
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No duh~~ Look at you.

I'm just kidding. Of course dotors don't have to be smart. Just look at me in 4 year.s
 
W19 said:
I was surprised by that 130 IQ, which I think is too high. 1 standard deviation is where I think most physicians are, but 2 stdv is extremely high...
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Per wikipedia and some linked data from 1987, MDs/DOs, JDs and PhDs have average IQs around 125+, a little less than 2 SDs above the median/mean whereas right at 1 SD are most college grads with IQs around 115.
 
I know some doctors that are super smart who said they didn't have to work that hard in med school, and I know some that are just slightly above average but work their rears off.

So, in the end, probably a little of both.
 
J Senpai said:
Per wikipedia and some linked data from 1987, MDs/DOs, JDs and PhDs have average IQs around 125+, a little less than 2 SDs above the median/mean whereas right at 1 SD are most college grads with IQs around 115.
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I just think it's kind of too high... I don't know how reliable is that study.
 
J Senpai said:
Per wikipedia and some linked data from 1987, MDs/DOs, JDs and PhDs have average IQs around 125+, a little less than 2 SDs above the median/mean whereas right at 1 SD are most college grads with IQs around 115.
Click to expand...

I am smarted?

Edit: I probably went to the wrong college. I definitely met some students that weren't the sharpest lightbulbs in the toolshed.

Their blood EtOH on the other hand...
 
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cliquesh said:
I don't know how smart doctors are, but you don't need to be that smart to be a doctor. You don't even really think that much as a doctor. It's mostly just algorithms. I think having a good memory is more important than anything else.
Click to expand...
Algorithms? How about Heuristics.
 
cliquesh said:
I don't know how smart doctors are, but you don't need to be that smart to be a doctor. You don't even really think that much as a doctor. It's mostly just algorithms. I think having a good memory is more important than anything else.
Click to expand...

Do you think you have an exceptional memory?

I'm guessing people who get 245+ tend to have a great memory they can utilize w/ hard work.
 
Lawgiver said:
Because if doctors were as smart as the public thinks they are, why do people that go to med school dont instead build their own multimillion/billion dollar business, say like the people that founded twitter or facebook or anyone of the smaller sites that still generate millions for their founders? So to me it seems physicians are just smart enough to realize they are not actually smart enough to become millionaires using their own creativity, so they settle for medicine. I mean many internet and other self made millionaires make in a week what most doctors make in a year.

Some truth in all this?
Click to expand...

Running a business is really ****ing hard. Running a successful business is even harder. And even if you do everything right, you're still at considerable risk of failing. If making millions/billions running a business were that easy plenty of us would be doing it right now.
 
MedWonk said:
Running a business is really ******* hard. Running a successful business is even harder. And even if you do everything right, you're still at considerable risk of failing. If making millions/billions running a business were that easy plenty of us would be doing it right now.
Click to expand...

It's usually the non-trads who tend to understand this.
 
IQ isn't the best indicator of success in life. A study done at Stanford called the "marshmallow experiment" was shown to be the best indicator. The long term (40 years) study followed preschool kids into adulthood and those who were found to delay their gratification early on (one marshmallow now or wait 15 minutes and get two) were more sucessful. Just like most medical students who could have made a living working at a job out of college making 40k-60k a year, can endure 4 years of medical school and then 3-9 years of low residency pay. But once residency is done, you can expect most if not all attending physician to be successful.

Source: http://www.webcitation.org/62C0yfhcJ
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment
 
excellent replies. im sure my post was not super clear but i typed it up on a whim but i think the meat of it got across.
 
mcloaf said:
They are usually both. I'm not really sure what to make of your bizarre claim that intelligence is directly reflected in ones ability or desire to build a big business. Is Joe Francis smarter than your average neurosurgeon because he made a bunch of money by founding Girls Gone Wild?
Click to expand...

if were saying acquiring wealth is the end goal, than id say yeah he is.
 
W19 said:
I just think it's kind of too high... I don't know how reliable is that study.
Click to expand...

I forget where, but I saw somewhere the following about a 130 IQ... That it's two SD above the mean and 98th percentile, which sounds impressive. But then on the other hand, that only means you're the smartest in a group of 50 random people, right? Which is not that impressive considering how many dumb people there are.
 
sisko said:
I forget where, but I saw somewhere the following about a 130 IQ... That it's two SD above the mean and 98th percentile, which sounds impressive. But then on the other hand, that only means you're the smartest in a group of 50 random people, right? Which is not that impressive considering how many dumb people there are.
Click to expand...

Mark-Wahlberg-Confused-In-The-Happening.gif
 
Ivy: smart & hardworking.

Everyone-else is one of:
-super smart
-or super hardworking
-or semi-smart & semi-hardworking.
 
sisko said:
I forget where, but I saw somewhere the following about a 130 IQ... That it's two SD above the mean and 98th percentile, which sounds impressive. But then on the other hand, that only means you're the smartest in a group of 50 random people, right? Which is not that impressive considering how many dumb people there are.
Click to expand...
#representativesample #externalvalidity
 
Let me propose this:
I think that one can sometimes compensate for the other (at least as far as the academic side is concerned) but you got to have both.
 
chizledfrmstone said:
Do you think you have an exceptional memory?

I'm guessing people who get 245+ tend to have a great memory they can utilize w/ hard work.
Click to expand...

Memory is something that can actually be improved on. Critical thinking on the other hand....
 
chizledfrmstone said:
Do you think you have an exceptional memory?

I'm guessing people who get 245+ tend to have a great memory they can utilize w/ hard work.
Click to expand...

It's probably better than average. It's become worse in recent years, though. I don't know if it's just because of aging, sleep deprivation or stress. I've also been drinking more than ever, too, so maybe that's it.
 
Oh innocent youth...

OP, if building a business was that easy, people would. Heck, if they could be self-employed and make 60 or 70 K a year, they would. Building a successful multiwhatever company is more akin to winning the lottery than surviving medical school, and if you want to keep Steve Jobs and Zukerberg as your only role models you'll lead a disappointing life.
Both my father and father in law are small business owners and have been for 25+ years. Never made it "big time", but make a living. That's the 99%, bro.
It's easier (read: smarter) to go through alllllll the pains of med school and be a doc making 250K than it is to let your untested mind convince you that just about anyone can be the next Zukerberg.
 
The idea that physicians would start a business if it is easy is BS. Most physicians don't consider business because they want to be physicians. Physicians not only are usually intelligent, but also incredibly dedicated, hardworking, and personable. All very important skills to developing a business.

Would ALL physicians be successful business owners? No...but there is no question in my mind that they would have a higher success rate than most going into business.
 
Smart is a pretty broad term that doesn't exactly mean "get lots of money".
 
MrChance2 said:
Smart is a pretty broad term that doesn't exactly mean "get lots of money".
Click to expand...
Aye, I know a verified genius level individual with 3 master's degrees who makes like $15k/yr.



He's one of those highly intelligent people with very little common sense.
 
Lawgiver said:
Because if doctors were as smart as the public thinks they are, why do people that go to med school dont instead build their own multimillion/billion dollar business, say like the people that founded twitter or facebook or anyone of the smaller sites that still generate millions for their founders? So to me it seems physicians are just smart enough to realize they are not actually smart enough to become millionaires using their own creativity, so they settle for medicine. I mean many internet and other self made millionaires make in a week what most doctors make in a year.

Some truth in all this?
Click to expand...
smh premeds. this is why I hate hanging out with so many of them.

and yet here i am.

Your problem is that you are trying to paint everyone with the same brush. How can you say physicianS? Do you not get that every person is different and as a result, their motivations and reasoning is unique from the other?

and for your information, I know physicians who have built research centers and hospitals that now amount to multimillion dollar businesses. I know physicians who've started their own companies on the side, developed apps, gone into real estate, and invested in emergency clinics to the point where they could stop practicing medicine and let the money from their investments come in.
 
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