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Are there a lot of bullies in medical school?

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Matthew9Thirtyfive

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    You tell them their jocular intimidation tactics won't work because you're an adult, not a 5 year old. Then they'll posture and probably try to humiliate you or something, and you laugh and walk away/ignore them.

    If that doesn't work, fart on their pillow.
     
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    Lannister

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      Really? What happened? Was this a trad or non-trad?

      Trad, but I won't go into specifics since he uses SDN. It was nothing crazy, and he's a pretty weird dude in general so it honestly might be less out of malice and more out of not knowing how to communicate appropriately with others.
       
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      Lannister

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        Bullies?

        Like how would an adult bully someone?

        Adults bully people all the time. Workplace bullying is extremely common.

        A few years ago there was a story about a grown man who was caught mocking a small child with cerebral palsy by imitating his gait. And in front of the dude's own child, too.
         
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        Prometheus123

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          In the real world "bullies" are just dinguses and you deal with them. They will always be present.

          ^This. Was there anything in particular that prompted your question? Personally, I like to deal with dinguses by somehow mocking them for how ridiculously bad their behavior is. Remember, being an a**hole is always far more embarrassing than being different in whatever way you may be different.
           
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            Adults bully people all the time. Workplace bullying is extremely common.

            A few years ago there was a story about a grown man who was caught mocking a small child with cerebral palsy by imitating his gait. And in front of the dude's own child, too.
            Define bullying.....you seem to think it means anyone who does something mean or rude
             
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            Tchotchke

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              idk as far as the traditional definition of bullying. But, rude behavior including ignoring someone/treating them like the don't exist with the intention of making you aware of their sentiments is bullying IMO. You'll def see some anal sphincters in school though. They could just be gunners whose path you got in the way of, or someone taking advantage, or just being fake. A fake kid i know offered help to someone (who theyre normally mean to or ignore) while the prof was around but ignored them and never followed up. Adults can be bullied too. Any kind of behavior that purposely belittles someone with the intention to harm esteem is bullying
               
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              deleted480308

                idk as far as the traditional definition of bullying. But, rude behavior including ignoring someone/treating them like the don't exist with the intention of making you aware of their sentiments is bullying IMO. You'll def see some anal sphincters in school though. They could just be gunners whose path you got in the way of, or someone taking advantage, or just being fake. A fake kid i know offered help to someone (who theyre normally mean to or ignore) while the prof was around but ignored them and never followed up. Adults can be bullied too. Any kind of behavior that purposely belittles someone with the intention to harm esteem is bullying
                Then the generations have softened up. Public offers to help that didn't pan out is bullying?

                I'd offer an eyeroll emoji but I don't want to be seen as bullying the youngins
                 
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                Tchotchke

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                  Then the generations have softened up. Public offers to help that didn't pan out is bullying?

                  I'd offer an eyeroll emoji but I don't want to be seen as bullying the youngins
                  That student didnt offer to help. It was an empty promise infront of the professor. I would agree with you about snowflake epidemic but if the HR departments of schools bother to make a presentation about it, it must be a real issue.
                   
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                  deleted480308

                    That student didnt offer to help. It was an empty promise infront of the professor. I would agree with you about snowflake epidemic but if the HR departments of schools bother to make a presentation about it, it must be a real issue.
                    I fully understood it was a fake promise. Not bullying

                    And schools making presentations about things is by no means a reliable metric for it being an actual problem for selfsufficient adults
                     
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                    Tchotchke

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                      I fully understood it was a fake promise. Not bullying

                      And schools making presentations about things is by no means a reliable metric for it being an actual problem for selfsufficient adults
                      I disagree with you. Schools make presentations on relationship abuse as well. Many people don't realize they are in an abusive relationship while they are in the "eye of the storm. " The fire department gives detailed instructions on what to do in a fire. But, maybe we shouldn't bother with that if we're self-sufficient adults.
                       
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                      deleted480308

                        I disagree with you. Schools make presentations on relationship abuse as well. Many people don't realize they are in an abusive relationship while they are in the "eye of the storm. " The fire department gives detailed instructions on what to do in a fire. But, maybe we shouldn't bother with that if we're self-sufficient adults.
                        You aren't following. They also gave presentations on the need to support the AOA, on not being fall down drunk in your social media, and about how amazing the ACA was and how all the doctors loved it.

                        I'll repeat, a presentation given does not make something legitimate and true.

                        You are welcome to disagree because we are adults and I'm not bullying you
                         
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                        Dr. Stalker

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                          I study at the med student library occasionally and I've never witnessed physical bullying action taking place, but its heartbreaking, but I've seen verbal bullying a lot.

                          One encounter I saw was two med students (they're well known dbags at the med school) mocking another medical student that supposedly choked completing a neuro exam and they were just laughing saying how he had it totally backwards, spoke too nervously, and was anxious, meanwhile those two (the bullies) nailed the exam perfectly. The victim got visibly upset and wasn't laughing/playing along with their cruel verbal slights and slammed his books shut and got up and left, and the other two jerks were cackling at their accomplishment...

                          EDIT: Typed the wrong word and had to correct it in order for the anecdote to make sense
                           
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                          Lannister

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                            Define bullying.....you seem to think it means anyone who does something mean or rude

                            No, I do not. But I do think ganging up on a co-worker to make them feel unwelcome/excluded, purposely embarrassing someone in public, etc. counts as bullying. I don't think I've ever really been bullied, but I won't pretend it doesn't happen, even among adults.
                             
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                            Goro

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                              Note the red (my emphasis)
                              Define bullying.....you seem to think it means anyone who does something mean or rude
                              bul·ly1
                              ˈbo͝olē/
                              verb
                              gerund or present participle: bullying
                              1. use superior strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force him or her to do what one wants.
                                "a local man was bullied into helping them"
                                synonyms: persecute, oppress, tyrannize, browbeat, harass, torment, intimidate, strong-arm, dominate;
                                informal push around, bullyrag
                                "the others bully him"
                                coerce, pressure, pressurize, press, push;
                                force, compel;
                                badger, goad, prod, browbeat, intimidate, dragoon, strong-arm;
                                informalbulldoze, railroad, lean on
                                "she was bullied into helping"
                               
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                              Prometheus123

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                                Then the generations have softened up. Public offers to help that didn't pan out is bullying?

                                I'd offer an eyeroll emoji but I don't want to be seen as bullying the youngins
                                I just have to say how great it is that you're actually saying exactly what Ron Swanson would say in this situation. :happy:

                                EDIT: I also agree with you and support what you're saying.
                                 
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                                Matthew9Thirtyfive

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                                  I study at the med student library occasionally and I've never witnessed physical bullying action taking place, but its heartbreaking, but I've seen verbal bullying a lot.

                                  One encounter I saw was two med students (they're well known dbags at the med school) mocking another medical student that supposedly choked completing a neuro exam and they were just laughing saying how he had it totally backwards, spoke too nervously, and was anxious, meanwhile those two (the bullies) nailed the exam perfectly. The victim got visibly upset and wasn't laughing/playing along with their cruel verbal slights and slammed his books shut and got up and left, and the other two jerks were cackling at their accomplishment...

                                  EDIT: Typed the wrong word and had to correct it in order for the anecdote to make sense

                                  Not sure how you can let that happen to you as an adult. This isn't high school where speaking out might get you beaten up or lower your place in the pecking order if you stand up for yourself. You are paying a lot to be there and get a good education. There is absolutely no reason that as an adult you can't tell them that they are acting like children and should back off lest they find themselves the subject of a formal complaint.
                                   
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                                  Prometheus123

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                                    Not sure how you can let that happen to you as an adult. This isn't high school where speaking out might get you beaten up or lower your place in the pecking order if you stand up for yourself. You are paying a lot to be there and get a good education. There is absolutely no reason that as an adult you can't tell them that they are acting like children and should back off lest they find themselves the subject of a formal complaint.

                                    Yes, this is the advantage of living in a society and culture of laws and universal standards of human decency (which some high schools unfortunately are not, I guess).
                                     

                                    Matthew9Thirtyfive

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                                      Yes, this is the advantage of living in a society and culture of laws and universal standards of human decency (which some high schools unfortunately are not, I guess).

                                      Exactly. I mean if you're a Jew in Iraq or a gay med student in Iran, maybe don't stand up for yourself if you want to finish your studies as a doctor instead of a cadaver, but this is professional school in America. Actions have consequences.
                                       
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                                      Prometheus123

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                                        They can humiliate you in front of other people and threaten your career.

                                        My wife used to work in oncosurgery when she was a resident under an older male oncosurgeon. He would essentially verbally abuse his residents for the slightest imperfection (this was in India, so the cultural norms are different). While he did humiliate her in front of other people many times, he never threatened her career. In fact, he made her a better doctor.

                                        Am I saying that being mean to people is good? No. I'm just saying that pain is the greatest motivator and some teachers can wield that tool well, albeit perhaps not always without unintended consequences (i.e. chronic stress and all the problems it causes). And, I think that's different than bullying. The difference is that one comes from a place of malice and hunger for power over another, whereas the other comes from the unselfish love of someone who's passing something of value down to the next generation. We all grow from opposition.

                                        Whiplash is a great movie about this style of teaching taken to its extreme. Riveting movie.
                                         
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                                        Prometheus123

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                                          Pain can induces suffering and self-harm.

                                          There are more constructive ways to motivate people.

                                          I agree with that. I think there's a middle way. The moderators on SDN are a great example of that. I haven't encountered a single one who's a bully, but they're honest with you, which is a form of compassion. People need to be pushed, but respectfully, ideally.

                                          And yes I agree that you can use positive emotions like elevation, hope, faith, and love to lead as well. :)
                                           
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                                          Tenk

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                                            You will occasionally feel bullied and picked on throughout your career. Probably 99% of these are just temporary events that are just you overreacting or just an unfortunate situation. It is rare nowadays to have someone who continually harasses students and gets away with it. But I don't think a bully is someone who does something one time to someone (that's probably just an dingus). I think of a bully as someone who does something continually which in medicine is rare due to the risk of losing your job. If you start calling everything negative bullying then you take away from legitament bullying and everyone becomes thin skinned which also isn't good.
                                             
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                                            Matthew9Thirtyfive

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                                              It happens anywhere in any setting. For instance, post a thread on here about how you are going to a Caribbean school and you will be cyber bullied into oblivion.

                                              Being told you're likely making a life-ruining mistake is not bullying.
                                               
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                                              CUatthefinishline

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                                                Not sure how you can let that happen to you as an adult. This isn't high school where speaking out might get you beaten up or lower your place in the pecking order if you stand up for yourself. You are paying a lot to be there and get a good education. There is absolutely no reason that as an adult you can't tell them that they are acting like children and should back off lest they find themselves the subject of a formal complaint.

                                                I don't think it's about being an adult; you're not less of an adult because you become intimidated/afraid/whatever. You're self-esteem issues or trouble being assertive don't vanish because you suddenly turn 18. I think that you should be able to assert your rights as an adult (and someone entering a profession that requires a certain amount of leadership), but that is ideal and does not always happen. America is awesome but there are a lot of people that are not aware of all their rights and privileges as human beings or US citizens. Also, even as aduts speaking up to someone can have certain consequences depending on who it is. Adults can be bullied, even doctors. & bullying goes well past the point of being a butthole imo.

                                                Sorry if this got rambly.
                                                 
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