Are you "in it" for missions?

[iceman132]

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In all the other situations that don't involve human sacrifice, how then do you justify pushing your beliefs on other people?

Is that seriously necessary? You don't know anything about me nor my potential.

How about Hitler's society.

However,You're taking yourself out of the hypothetical. Don't weasel out now.


Sure it is and I'm about 99.9% sure people who changed others beliefs have done far more good than you ever will. I hope you prove me wrong though. (But with your mentality so far I don't think you will)

 

[iceman132]

"Hitler had promoted a 'positive Christianity' purged of Judaism and instilled with Nazi philosophy." [link]

I think it's better that we don't view our own beliefs superior to others. Let's accept the beliefs of others as they are and intervene only when necessary.

If you want to further discuss this, please PM me. This thread is not the place.

Calling it "Positive Christianity" doesn't make it so. You can twist around "Christianity" but I doubt you'll find a single christian group over a million members that will approve of Hitler's message. (Either way this quote has nothing to do with my argument.)

If a country wants to promote child molestation or racial slavery let's just accept it. 🙄

I don't need to discuss it. I know I'm right already. What your suggesting is asinine ultra tolerance. If you want to become right also than feel free to pm me.

 

[STxHorn]

So, who started this? Ridiculous.

I am who I am, and my beliefs, more than any other part of me, motivate me toward the service of my fellow man, in love and in brotherhood. And someone wants to attack that? Here. Sorry, but it's ridiculous to spin what I and so many others posted previously into some petty argument. Go start your own thread.


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[iceman132]

So, who started this? Ridiculous.

I am who I am, and my beliefs, more than any other part of me, motivate me toward the service of my fellow man, in love and in brotherhood. And someone wants to attack that? Here. Sorry, but it's ridiculous to spin what I and so many others posted previously into some petty argument. Go start your own thread.


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This is not a petty argument. It's a serious problem with ultra tolerant individuals in our society who think its cool these days to spit in the face of religion.

A few people here think that what missionaries are doing is cramming religion down people's throats (i.e. Pushing your beliefs) which is complete and utter disrespect toward the missionaries who leave a much more comfortable lifestyle to try and help their fellow man.

 

[STxHorn]

People think it's cool these days to spit in the face of religion.

The people here think that what missionaries are doing is cramming religion down people's throats (i.e. Pushing your beliefs) which is complete and utter disrespect toward the missionaries who leave a much more comfortable lifestyle to try and help their fellow man.

I have a keyboard to type on just like they do.


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[iceman132]

I have a keyboard to type on just like they do.


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I'm.... a bit confused what you're getting at.

Either way I respect the fact that you may consider going on missions. I hope to do this eventually as well.

 

[STxHorn]

I'm.... a bit confused what you're getting at.

Either way I respect the fact that you may consider going on missions. I hope to do this eventually as well.

My point was that if they want to attack my beliefs, I'm prepared to defend myself. I'll not stand by and let arrogant or ignorant statements go unchecked.


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[SDN9876]

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[zwitterion34]

You must construct additional pylons.

/thread 😎

 

[iceman132]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum

I like how you choose 2 extreme types of brutal peoples to prove your point.

Has spreading any religion reduced violence?

Your reply (as I expect to be) will be to say that civilizing the world was done with by the British and West Europe. So if we civilize does that make us more "good"?

Let's count the # of deaths inflicted by "civilized" societies (i.e. let's choose iraq because it's fairly recent and not a outdated example like 1940s nazi germany or wayyy back to aztec days, where in iraq over 500k people (very very conservative number i'm picking to give you benefit of doubt) have been killed). I thought the USA was "civilized" and civilization promotes good and pro-life. I guess not.

Now let's look at noncivilized people and their "skirmishes", where 1000s or 100,000s die at best...and to give you benefit of doubt, let's choose Rwanda, where semi-civilized people killed 500k (another estimate) people, using the weapons provided by civilized nations.

So I guess civilizing the world doesn't necessarily make it better.

The world is violent, either with a spear, gun, or button on a joystick while sitting in a air conditioned war room.

Religion has no affect on people's goodness and should never be confused to.

Good people are good, regardless of religious beliefs, or lack thereof. Bad people are good, religious or not.

These things are mutually exclusive, not inclusive.

Violence isn't inherently evil. The way Hitler and the Aztecs went about it is the problem

You have absolutely no idea what being "moral" or a "good person" means. It's very obvious when you say some arrogant nonsense like religion has no affect on people. I really can't go anywhere with a person with no foundation. So keep living in that fantasy world.

Good try though

 

[STxHorn]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum

I like how you choose 2 extreme types of brutal peoples to prove your point.

Has spreading any religion reduced violence?

Your reply (as I expect to be) will be to say that civilizing the world was done with by the British and West Europe. So if we civilize does that make us more "good"?

Let's count the # of deaths inflicted by "civilized" societies (i.e. let's choose iraq because it's fairly recent and not a outdated example like 1940s nazi germany or wayyy back to aztec days, where in iraq over 500k people (very very conservative number i'm picking to give you benefit of doubt) have been killed). I thought the USA was "civilized" and civilization promotes good and pro-life. I guess not.

Now let's look at noncivilized people and their "skirmishes", where 1000s or 100,000s die at best...and to give you benefit of doubt, let's choose Rwanda, where semi-civilized people killed 500k (another estimate) people, using the weapons provided by civilized nations.

So I guess civilizing the world doesn't necessarily make it better.

The world is violent, either with a spear, gun, or button on a joystick while sitting in a air conditioned war room.

Religion has no affect on people's goodness and should never be confused to.

Good people are good, regardless of religious beliefs, or lack thereof. Bad people are bad, religious or not.

These things are mutually exclusive, not inclusive.

I could reply directly, but I'm going to attempt to keep this thread here for its original purpose.

Here's an idea. Go start a "How worthless is religion and medical missions?" thread. Stop hijacking this one. Go see what happens when you start your own thread like a big boy. Ready. Set. Go.


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[SDN9876]

.

 

[iceman132]

I could reply directly, but I'm going to attempt to keep this thread here for its original purpose.

Here's an idea. Go start a "How worthless is religion and medical missions?" thread. Stop hijacking this one. Go see what happens when you start your own thread like a big boy. Ready. Set. Go.


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I agree, I should stop responding to such nonsense.

 

[SDN9876]

.

 

[iceman132]

I must have missed this gem.

Before I warn you go make your own thread.

I am a bit surprised a doctor spits on religion this blatantly (But I guess it goes to show how evil this society is getting)

 

[SDN9876]

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[iceman132]

So how are some of you planning on doing missions?

I really can't imagine doing anything until after I am retired. I would imagine it would be insanely difficult to do something with a regular physicians job.

 

[STxHorn]

So how are some of you planning on doing missions?

I really can't imagine doing anything until after I am retired. I would imagine it would be insanely difficult to do something with a regular physicians job.

Well clearly I'm just starting out on this journey but I know where there is a will there is a way. Firstly, I believe very strongly that there is great value in doing something diligently and excellently which can be a fulfillment of missions in itself, especially in the field of medicine. Beyond that, I've always attempted to combine my life away from work with both my family and what I believe is ministry in missions. It may end up being easier said than done, but I look forward to blending what will eventually become my vocation into bettering the world around me in tangible ways.


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[dwdrums2112]

There are some programs that will pay for your medical school if you commit to a year-for-year mission commitment, when finished. The other option would be to work until you pay off school, then start the mission work. I'm a non-traditional, married with children, so we have a lot of equity and hope to not have too many loans for payoff.

All specialties are needed! There are hospitals and organizations that are set up through non-profits who are desperately seeking physicians willing to serve long-term commitments. I know Cure really needs an orthopedic surgeon in the UAE right now.

It drives me nuts that there is a need that I would LOVE to fill but I'm just not qualified yet!

I see your reasoning. Good to know there are still people that love to help others. It would be great doing this, aside from paying for loans and other financial needs.

 

[deleted393595]

Well clearly I'm just starting out on this journey but I know where there is a will there is a way. Firstly, I believe very strongly that there is great value in doing something diligently and excellently which can be a fulfillment of missions in itself, especially in the field of medicine. Beyond that, I've always attempted to combine my life away from work with both my family and what I believe is ministry in missions. It may end up being easier said than done, but I look forward to blending what will eventually become my vocation into bettering the world around me in tangible ways.


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STxHorn, how you plan on paying off your med school debt?

 

[STxHorn]

STxHorn, how you plan on paying off your med school debt?

I'm from an area of Texas that is almost entirely underserved. As every med student should, I know that I may change my mind on specialty, but I am strongly leaning toward ending up double boarded in either FP/IM or FP/Pediatrics and coming back home to practice. If there are programs that will aid me with my loans by doing that, it's just icing on the cake since that has been my plan all along.

Cost of living and some costs of running a practice are also lower in rural areas. All in all, I think it will work out financially so that I'm not in a bad spot with loans. The missions will be an outgrowth of where I practice and opportunities through my church. Later on, who knows. My wife is a nurse. We'd love to practice and serve together in a place, here or abroad, where we know we're supposed to be. That will come. Right now, I'm focused on starting MS1.


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[Camy99]

Has anyone considered that practicing in a heavily underserved population might be possible without leaving your own city/state? Amartya Sen often quotes the fact that there are parts of Bangladesh with comparable/higher mortality rates than Harlem, NYC.

When I say missionary I've always meant to start right here in the US. This place is not as perfect as people wish it were.


I kinda hate SDN for nearly ruining this thread too with BS arguments because people don't agree on their views. You guys CANNOT be serious <_<
Anyways, glad we're back on track....

 

[iceman132]

When I say missionary I've always meant to start right here in the US. This place is not as perfect as people wish it were.

This is a good point. A mega church in our community did free dental work on one weekend. It was astounding how many people showed up at one time.

The biggest problem is following up with these patients. They don't have the resources to get major operations done.... So when their done with a short checkup there is nothing else you can really do for them (Same problem with short term medical missions)

I have a lot of respect for a doctor that can keep up with a patient with no resources. I don't know how you can help a large group of these people without running out of funds. The only way I can see an operation like this continuing is to receive money from the government or a grant.

 

[Dan1804]

i'd like to work for doctors without borders

+1

 

[blackey]

The first time this thread went completely off-track, I quit checking on it. I was surprised to see it was "re-vamped" when I logged on today and extremely disappointed in the turn it took. I'm actually horrified by many comments on here. I hope they're based out of immaturity and that living life a few more years will help you all grow into more respectful and less self-centered individuals.

Thank you to all of you who got the original intent of my thread. Even though your posts have been shot down, it is incredibly encouraging knowing there are others out there who have the same call.

If you would like to maintain some source of encouragement or resources in the mission field, PM me. If we are going to pursue our calling, we need to get used to this sort of "heckling". It's guaranteed.

"These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." John 16:33

"The world would love you as one of its own if you belonged to it, but you are no longer part of the world. I chose you to come out of the world, so it hates you." John 15:19

Amen and Amen....so we shall press on!!! 😍

 

[BurntFlower]

I'm very interested in International Medicine since I have lived most of my life abroad and I know the great need for doctors in developing countries. However, I'm worried about how I'll pay back my loans.

 

[cmwhite11]

Camels, needles, and all that... 🙄

😉

That certainly seems to be the case, especially at my school where we have "medical mission" trips. However, how is a pre-med student in any shape or form able to assess, diagnose, treat and monitor patients? I understand that there are some who have EMT and med tech certification, but that's useful only up to a certain point. They still would lack the knowledge and ability to successfully take care of the patient.

I've been to Central America on "medical missions" and was in no way responsible for diagnosing or treating patients. We brought doctors and nurses along, and students helped with interpreting and recording basic info and vitals. I understand there are problems with these trips (i.e. sustainability, not fixing the underlying problems, the cost of going abroad vs. working in an underserved area at home for free), but at least in my experience, the trips aren't nearly as unethical and useless as people think.

Are there actually organizations that let college students "play doctor" in another country?

 

[SpecterGT260]

I didn't read the thread but I think i know what's up. It's my mission to own a Porsche 🙂.

 

[iceman132]

I didn't read the thread but I think i know what's up. It's my mission to own a Porsche 🙂.

Nothing wrong with that being a mission in life.... However, if it's your ONLY mission then that's a bit sad.

 

[TraumaGirl]

I am so happy I found this thread!! I absolutely plan to do missions medicine. So many of you posted awesome info; books to read, CURE Hospital, and tuition stuff...excellent! Praise GOD you all are here. Made my night!

 

[SpecterGT260]

Nothing wrong with that being a mission in life.... However, if it's your ONLY mission then that's a bit sad.

Says the dude that was banned 🙂

 

[Moosepig]

I am going into medicine with a 100% intent of medical missions. It is exciting to see some others here as well!

As a Christian, and as doctor (if I become one), I want to be a conduit of healing and a voice of the gospel to wherever needs it most. Whether that's in Ethiopia or rural-town America, I don't know, but I know that I have one life, and any piece of comfort I choose for myself over comfort I can provide to those who will not receive it otherwise is a waste of my time here.

If any of y'all considering missions would like to pm me I'd love to talk about it. It is nice to have dialogue with someone considering the same path as you and get the wisdom/perspective they have on it you haven't been exposed to.

 

[00011]

I too would love to go into medical missions full-time or at the least as a short term missionary (2 years away and 1 year or so back in the states). I talked to a medical student in finishing his 3rd year, who shared a similar passion. Unfortunately, he told me that when he mentioned his desire to serve overseas to certain ADCOMS, they came down hard on him for it. In their opinion, why wouldn't he stay in the states and commit to serving underserved populations here?

The ADCOMS do have a valid point, especially since the states are about to face a growing shortage of physicians in the next 10 years or so.

Have any of you who are thinking about going into missions heard similar things?
Would any of you wanting to go overseas consider staying in the states?


On another note,
I spent two months in Galmi, Niger on a medical missions compound through the organization Serving in Mission. Look it up if you're interested 🙂 It was an excellent time and a great picture of a well-run medical mission. The staff and people there were amazing.
Two disclaimers: You have to raise you're own support, about 6000 for two months, 3000 paid for the plane ticket 😱. Also don't expect to show up and just shadow doctors, you are there to work first and in your spare time, shadow physicians (I got in about 80 hours between a oncologist/general surgeon, pediatrician, and Occupational Therapist).

Blessings

 

[mehc012]

I would definitely be interested in medical missions, not as a career by themselves but as a supplement. I would consider doing them longer-term if there were a way to offset the loans, but there don't seem to be any non-religiously-affiliated programs for that sort of thing. There are barely any non-religious opportunities at all (thank you DWB)!

 

[threnodyk]

Why not provide medical care to rural populations in the US? Remote Area Medical, is an awesome organization for that. They started out as a group which airdropped physicians into Guyana, and have since started providing free care in the US too. It's incredible (/incredibly depressing) how useful 3rd world medical care techniques are in the US.

At any rate, while I admire physicians who dedicate their lives to underserved populations, I think people should be wary of religious-based international medical groups. They can do wonderful things, but religious groups' aversion to family planning and condoms specifically have directly contributed to the continuation of poverty and the spread of HIV in many parts of the world.

 

[bigDee]

Really, so if you waltzed in on the Aztecs feeding the hearts of young men to Huitzilopochtli then you wouldn't want to change their beliefs?

Changing belief systems are a way to help people. Don't spit on the works of people who went far further than you EVER will to help spread good will by acting like changing beliefs isn't helping people.

That's an extreme example that does not equate to reality in most situations. You cannot change someone's religious beliefs. It can be done in exceptional cases but for the most part it's not going to work just because the very definition of faith does not allow their beliefs to be changed no matter what sort of reasoning you give them. It's not only a religion thing but a cultural thing that people hold on to. You cannot go to another country and change someone's culture by peaceful means. The only way to do it is to kill them so only the children are left to be molded by the new culture.

Anyway about the OP, yeah I would definitely be interested in doing medical work in other countries for the underserved. I'd figure it'd be hard to do with a family already settled though because that means you would have to take your kids out of school for a while and try and find a good school that teaches in english in this underserved area. I'm sure I'll spend a year or two out of the country before I have kids or while my kids are very young.

 

[Ashley1989]

I am so glad I found this thread!!! :-0

Has anyone here considered Tropical Medicine? I know an ER doc who specialized and then also went to the tropical school of medicine in London and he does a LOT of work overseas.

Oh, and one of my dear friends was born and raised in Nigeria because her dad is a surgeon and her mom a pediatrician and they ran a clinic there. She had the best stories about buying baby bush monkeys from bush meat stands and she would keep them as a pet. She's also fluent in several of the languages. I would LOVE to give that opportunity to my kids.

 

[mzarrowsmith]

http://www.globalhealthservicecorps.org/

 

[diabeticgonewld]

It sounds cool.

But, I would imagine it could be very frustrating. You would have limited amounts of medical supplies and resources for treating people.

What if there is no electricity and no IV pumps where you are working at for a medical mission?

 

[FSU2013]

One of my good friends is in med school for this exact purpose. I don't plan on being a full time medical missionary, but I would like to do intermittent medical mission trips.

 

[noworkhistory]

I want to work for free.

I would actually be MORE motivated to pursue a career in medicine if it were true that everyone in the world worked for free.

 

[anap224]

Why not provide medical care to rural populations in the US? Remote Area Medical, is an awesome organization for that. They started out as a group which airdropped physicians into Guyana, and have since started providing free care in the US too. It's incredible (/incredibly depressing) how useful 3rd world medical care techniques are in the US.

At any rate, while I admire physicians who dedicate their lives to underserved populations, I think people should be wary of religious-based international medical groups. They can do wonderful things, but religious groups' aversion to family planning and condoms specifically have directly contributed to the continuation of poverty and the spread of HIV in many parts of the world.

^This

I am not trying to engage in a debate over theology, but what I will say is that I've always been taught that preventative medicine is the best medicine.

I am pursuing a career in medicine to strictly work in the rural setting, be it here or abroad, and I absolutely refuse to be a part of any nonsecular organizations for the very reason posted in bold above.

 

[Miss Alyssa]

^This

I am not trying to engage in a debate over theology, but what I will say is that I've always been taught that preventative medicine is the best medicine.

I am pursuing a career in medicine to strictly work in the rural setting, be it here or abroad, and I absolutely refuse to be a part of any nonsecular organizations for the very reason posted in bold above.

I'm going into ob/gyn and personally it would be against my morals NOT to provide contraception and family planning services. I've shied away from working with religious organization, even tho I'm religious, because I'm afraid that my views will be contrary to theirs. It would be helpful to actually contact the organizations and find out about their actual practices, but I haven't done that yet.

 

[HSUReddie]

I suppose I have to give my two cents here...

I used to be a more religious person who desired to do medical missions. There have been many a personal situation change my religious beliefs... not necessarily at their core, but how I approach others. I do not agree, at all, with attempting to convert someone who feels equally as strongly if not stronger about their religious beliefs than I do. There is a definite lack of sensitivity to culture in my opinion. But I suppose we aren't here for a theology argument.

The progression of change in my own beliefs, research into other organizations like Doctors Without Borders and Partners in Health, and time spent talking to physicians involved in public health, has really caused me to become leery of medical mission work, especially that affiliated with a religious organization.

The main question I'd like to bring up is that of sustainability. Unless you are over there for the long-haul, the work you are doing isn't always sustainable. And if you are over there for the long-haul, I think in some ways you are taking away from local solutions to local problems. Fact of the matter is, a lot of these countries have completely functioning medical schools. I've met many international medical school grads in my tropical medicine program at Tulane. They're intelligent, capable doctors. I just think in a way you're taking money away from the local economy. I think training and helping maybe a group of local doctors to come together to better serve their community is a fine and admirable goal. Helping to relieve healthcare related stress during a time of war or famine, in my opinion, is also acceptable. But there are many other things which leave me suspicious and with a bad taste in my mouth.

Also, pro-bono? Good luck with that. 🙄

I don't want to be offensive, but I think a lot of people are naive and overly romanticize this stuff. I used to be that person....