Army National Guard's new Med student program details.

[EMH]

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Members do not see this ad.

All righty. Then I'll go back to "nothing to worry about until there's something to worry about." 🙂

Us med students are good at worrying.

 

[allen254]

I realize ASR is not an option, but just for my own information and incase it comes bakc: I'm confused on the service commitment. I keep reading/hearing both 8 years and 6 years. Is it 6 years of drilling and 8 years total, so 2 years of IRR, or 8 years of drilling?>

 

[J ROD]

I realize ASR is not an option, but just for my own information and incase it comes bakc: I'm confused on the service commitment. I keep reading/hearing both 8 years and 6 years. Is it 6 years of drilling and 8 years total, so 2 years of IRR, or 8 years of drilling?>

I think it is the 6 + 2.

 

[lawyerdoc2b]

I want to apply for this program but don't know who to contact. I live in Georgia. Can anyone PM me the contact info for a recruiter? Thanks!

Sergeant First Class Janet Werner of the Georgia Army National Guard is the ASR recruiter for Georgia.

[email protected]

(770) 316-2260

While ASR has been suspended for now, I am applying in hopes that it will be reinstated before August 2010 when I start medical school in Atlanta. I am nearly done with my application and the selection board meets February 9, 2010.

Send me a PM if you like.

 

[utedoc]

So did anyone figure out if we need the 6 week OBLC or the 3 and a half week OBLC. My CO is on leave until January 5th and my 3rd year rotation schedule is due when I get back from break. Thanks for your help.

 

[N1D]

I was told unofficially from an OPS guy at Fort Sam that two of the 3.5 week OBLC classes had been added for this coming summer. The dates are not yet set in stone and the orders are not yet in ATRSS, but that was the word I got after hounding him for a month or so.

 

[lawyerdoc2b]

So did anyone figure out if we need the 6 week OBLC or the 3 and a half week OBLC. My CO is on leave until January 5th and my 3rd year rotation schedule is due when I get back from break. Thanks for your help.

National Guard OBLC is 26 days for Phase II. You have to complete Phase I before you go. Phase I is a 80 hour computer based ("distance learning") course.

 

[notdeadyet]

National Guard OBLC is 26 days for Phase II. You have to complete Phase I before you go. Phase I is a 80 hour computer based ("distance learning") course.

Out of curiosity, are you getting this from the Internet? I'd trust military-related internet info very little. According to the Internet, we're still recruiting actively for ASR.

Last I heard, "Phase I" doesn't actually exist and probably won't for some time.

 

[akoman]

I went to the one this summer and there was no phase I training required even though it was according to atars. They said they were trying to implement it, but I got the vibe it probably won't happen very soon. We did have to complete a few online training things that took all together about two hours. Hope this helps for any that are curious.

 

[lawyerdoc2b]

Out of curiosity, are you getting this from the Internet? I'd trust military-related internet info very little. According to the Internet, we're still recruiting actively for ASR.

Last I heard, "Phase I" doesn't actually exist and probably won't for some time.

My Recruiter in Atlanta told me that ASR was suspended for the time being. The Recruiters are trying to interest medical students in joining the Guard, drilling every month for pay and $4,500 per year in tuition assistance. She provided me with a memo from the top doctor in the Georgia Guard that stated that if ASR is not available by the time I start medical school in August 2010, I could be honorably discharged at my request. Without ASR, the Guard isn't worth the hassle while a medical student in my opinion.

If recruiting of medical students without the ASR enticement falls way down (I'm told that it has been nearly dead since ASR was suspened in November/December) then ASR may be reinstated. I'm betting that it will be.

I am going to MEPS in early January for a physical and expect to have the mountain of paperwork complete by late January, hopefully in time for the February 9, 2010 Board in Ft. Knox. If not, then the March board. Either way, I'm not obligated until I rise my right hand and swear in. I'm hopeful that ASR will be resurected.

As for Phase I, ATTRS website of OBLC classes for this year lists Phase I as a prerequisite. I was told by my recruiter that my unit will take care of Phase I at my drills and schedule me for OBLC. I don't know if the the distance learning course actually exists or not.

 

[lawyerdoc2b]

I went to the National Guard website today and chatted on-line with a recruiter. Below is our dialogue:

First Lieutenant B.: Welcome to www.NATIONALGUARD.com . How may I help you today?

Me: Has the ASR program for medical students been suspended?

First Lieutenant B.: Let me see.

Me: Thanks for checking. I start medical school Aug 2010 and am prior service enlisted.

First Lieutenant B.: You're welcome.

First Lieutenant B.: AMEDD student recruiting is first come first serve.

First Lieutenant B.: Still going from what we found.

First Lieutenant B.: The ESAR is suspended though.

First Lieutenant B.: Every Soldier A Recruiter.

First Lieutenant B.: There's a max 400 ASR nation wide per year.

Me: What is "ESAR"?

First Lieutenant B.: ASR is first come first serve and still on.

First Lieutenant B.: The ESAR is suspended though.

First Lieutenant B.: "Every Soldier A Recruiter."

Me: ASR is still on? Great. Thanks.

First Lieutenant B.: You're welcome.

First Lieutenant B.: Like I said. It's first come first serve.

Me: I'm signing off. Thanks LT. I'm working on my commisioning application now. Hopefully, it will go before the AMEDD board on 9 Feb 2010.

First Lieutenant B.: You're welcome.

First Lieutenant B.: Good luck.

(names were edited by me to protect the identity of the participants)

Whether this is correct or not I have no idea.

 

[J ROD]

My recruiter told me that ASR was suspended for now but he expected it to come back because it is the only way to compete with the other branches that offer full rides, etc.

I guess we shall see what happens....

 

[lawyerdoc2b]

My recruiter told me that ASR was suspended for now but he expected it to come back because it is the only way to compete with the other brances that offer full rides, etc.

I guess we shall see what happens....

My recruiter said the same thing. So, I'm taking my chances and finishing my application for a commission. We shall see what happens in the next few months.

When medical student applications fall off the cliff in favor of other programs, the Guard has to respond or be understrength.

I predict that the "market" will dictate a reopening of ASR.

 

[J ROD]

My recruiter said the same thing. So, I'm taking my chances and finishing my application for a commission. We shall see what happens in the next few months.

When medical student applications fall off the cliff in favor of other programs, the Guard has to respond or be understrength.

I predict that the "market" will dictate a reopening of ASR.

Yeah, I think at least in some form it will be brought back....probably will be harder to get or some additional requirements, etc...

I will have my physical and paperwork done by beginning of Feb hopefully....

 

[koojo]

So did anyone figure out if we need the 6 week OBLC or the 3 and a half week OBLC. My CO is on leave until January 5th and my 3rd year rotation schedule is due when I get back from break. Thanks for your help.

I was told to contact another individual regarding this matter. I'm waiting to hear back and will let you know.

 

[notdeadyet]

My recruiter said the same thing. So, I'm taking my chances and finishing my application for a commission. We shall see what happens in the next few months.

It certainly can't hurt. As long as an ASR application isn't withholding you from applying to another program of interest, there's no down side.

I predict that the "market" will dictate a reopening of ASR.

My prediction (worth absolutely nothing) is that ASR or something like it will return in 5 or 6 years time. For many states that were absolutely desperate for doctors, we'll be at strength by the time all of the ASRs graduate from medical school. This hasn't happened before in most states.

But one thing that's worth mentioning is that we're talking ASRs here, which are not of the same mindset as most docs who join the Guard. The retention rates of folks who join the Guard via MDSSP is very good (i.e.: a high proportion of folks who enter the Guard via MDSSP stay in after their obligation is fulfilled). That's because MDSSP is a great benefit, but is probably not enough money to get someone to sign up who has no interest in service.

With ASR, it's a sufficiently lucrative program that you have a lot of people joining, who (despite what they may have said at the Boards) are planning on getting out the minute their obligation is filled. There are a lot of ASRs who would never have joined the Guard via MDSSP and certainly never have joined the Guard were there not significant financial incentives. So I think forecasting of physician strength might be overestimated by projecting the same retention rates for ASRs as MDSSPs in the past.

So if there's a huge outflux of docs from the Guard in 4 or 5 years time, the Guard may start up something like ASR again.

Or they might not. The Guard now is taking a new approach, and one that's a lot wiser, imho. They are now focusing on targeting doctors, not medical students. The problem with ASR is that you run the risk of paying $160K for a resource that gets out before he's deployable. I mentioned before on this thread that the next thing you're going to see is a bigger focus on physician recruitment and less so on medical student recruitment, and this seems to have started to happen already.

 

[slycaper]

Does anyone know if you can go active after you finish ASR (after the 4th yr of medical school of course), and apply to military residencies similar to the HPSP students?

 

[del Sol DOHC]

Does anyone know if you can go active after you finish ASR (after the 4th yr of medical school of course), and apply to military residencies similar to the HPSP students?

It is very doubtful that your commander is going to release you from the National Guard after medical school since they spent all that money on you and would not have had the chance to use you as an actual physician. Assuming you are not prior service, you have a 6 year drilling obligation (including time in school) to the National Guard, during which you are not eligible for military residency programs. After this obligation is over, you could then look into active duty if you were so inclined. Honestly, in most cases, you are better off in a civilian residency program anyway.

 

[notdeadyet]

Honestly, in most cases, you are better off in a civilian residency program anyway.

Aaaaaamen. I consider the ability to do a civilian residency one of the biggest strengths of ASR.

Do a civilian residency and if you're still inclined to go active, apply to do so. You'll have fulfilled your obligation to your state Guard and will have a civilian residency under your belt. There are very few military residencies that compare in quality to the better civilian ones and you'll still be welcomed in to the military fold with welcome arms.

 

[punkiedad]

Aaaaaamen. I consider the ability to do a civilian residency one of the biggest strengths of ASR.

Do a civilian residency and if you're still inclined to go active, apply to do so. You'll have fulfilled your obligation to your state Guard and will have a civilian residency under your belt. There are very few military residencies that compare in quality to the better civilian ones and you'll still be welcomed in to the military fold with welcome arms.

Ditto. NDY, you are a prophet.

Did anyone hear about the HPLRP being bumped to 120K? I just got the new ppt. deck from CO and it had this in it. If this is the case, it is a great way to entice current ASRs to stay in. In any event, I know a lot of folks were waiting for it to get bumped from 50K, but I just thought if it had, there would be more fanfare. Anyone?

 

[slycaper]

It is very doubtful that your commander is going to release you from the National Guard after medical school since they spent all that money on you and would not have had the chance to use you as an actual physician. Assuming you are not prior service, you have a 6 year drilling obligation (including time in school) to the National Guard, during which you are not eligible for military residency programs. After this obligation is over, you could then look into active duty if you were so inclined. Honestly, in most cases, you are better off in a civilian residency program anyway.

I am prior service (5yrs army), would they really get to use me anyway since I'm non-deployable during residency (my obligation should be close to being fulfilled by the time my residency ends)? I was looking forward to retiring in the military as I will have 8yrs of active duty (counting the 3 from the asr program).

 

[notdeadyet]

Did anyone hear about the HPLRP being bumped to 120K?

Yeah, it's legit. And I'm with you, it's a great way to keep ASRs in the fold and a great recruitment tool for new/young debt-averse physicians. $120K for three years is no joke.

In any event, I know a lot of folks were waiting for it to get bumped from 50K, but I just thought if it had, there would be more fanfare. Anyone?

You would, wouldn't you? The website still shows HLRP (they dropped the P apparently) as being $50K, but the policy memo shows the $120K. The website and marketing materials have lagged in the past. I'm going with the memo from the Colonel.

 

[notdeadyet]

I am prior service (5yrs army), would they really get to use me anyway since I'm non-deployable during residency (my obligation should be close to being fulfilled by the time my residency ends)? I was looking forward to retiring in the military as I will have 8yrs of active duty (counting the 3 from the asr program).

If you sign up for ASR with only 5 years prior service, you'll be plenty deployable before retirement.

Figure 5 years prior + 4 years med school + 3-5 year residency, you'll be deployable for 6-8 years before you can pull the plug at your 20.

As for obligation, most people taking ASR will fulfill their drilling obligation by the time they finish residency. This is one of the drawbacks of ASR for the Natioanl Guard.

 

[J ROD]

Yeah, it's legit. And I'm with you, it's a great way to keep ASRs in the fold and a great recruitment tool for new/young debt-averse physicians. $120K for three years is no joke.

You would, wouldn't you? The website still shows HLRP (they dropped the P apparently) as being $50K, but the policy memo shows the $120K. The website and marketing materials have lagged in the past. I'm going with the memo from the Colonel.

Exactly...I want the ASR and then the HLRP deal....I just cant commit that many yrs with the MDSSP and STRAP. I more than likely would stay for at least 20 yrs too because I am one that sticks with things...🙁

 

[Barium56]

Ditto. NDY, you are a prophet.

Did anyone hear about the HPLRP being bumped to 120K? I just got the new ppt. deck from CO and it had this in it. If this is the case, it is a great way to entice current ASRs to stay in. In any event, I know a lot of folks were waiting for it to get bumped from 50K, but I just thought if it had, there would be more fanfare. Anyone?

My CO mentioned this to me a few weeks ago. But I didn't want to post it until I saw it in writing. Sounds like it is official now. And yes, why is nobody advertising it better? That is a great benefit.

 

[notdeadyet]

Exactly...I want the ASR and then the HLRP deal....I just cant commit that many yrs with the MDSSP and STRAP. I more than likely would stay for at least 20 yrs too because I am one that sticks with things...🙁

Actually, MDSSP + STRAP is pretty close to the same financial benefit as ASR, if you do a four year residency. The big difference is that you're looking at a six year drilling commitment for ASR vs. 20 years drilling commitment for MDSSP + STRAP. But if you're going to do 20, it's not much difference.

BIG CAVEAT: You're right to be hesitant. I'd be very uncomfortable with anyone assuming 20 years of service in the National Guard before they'd drilled a few years, particularly as regular Guard (not flexi-training). Prior service folks can make a guess as to whether they can stomach it until retirement, the rest of us are just reading tea leaves.

 

[notdeadyet]

My CO mentioned this to me a few weeks ago. But I didn't want to post it until I saw it in writing. Sounds like it is official now.

Yeah, the policy memo came out 12/11/2009, so it's official at this point.

And yes, why is nobody advertising it better? That is a great benefit.

Agreed. I think the Guard is going to count on us ASRs to advertise it better. I don't know about other states, but ours has been very clear about focusing on recruiting physicians and graduating residents.

This bennie is a great offer. I'm curious to see if Special Pay gets bumped as well sometime in 2010.

 

[DeadCactus]

Anyone have a problem with the Federal Tuition Assistance website? I finally got my CAC all set-up. It logs in on every other site I've tried, I can digitally sign forms, etc. But when I try to log in at minuteman.ngb.army.mil/benefits/, the page just starts refreshing in an endless loop.

Anyone run into the same problem?

 

[oldapplicant]

So what is the maximum age the armed srvices accept mde students into the program?

 

[notdeadyet]

Anyone have a problem with the Federal Tuition Assistance website?

Mine went fine a few months ago. Haven't tried more recently.

I'd contact your state Education Rep. If you don't know who this person is, your CO should.

 

[notdeadyet]

So what is the maximum age the armed srvices accept mde students into the program?

In the National Guard, you need to be able to have put in 20 years of service by the time you're 60 years old. If you are not prior service, this means being commissioned by the time you're 40 years old.

I'm not sure if they're issuing any waivers for this. I think they usually only do so for physicians.

 

[J ROD]

The big difference is that you're looking at a six year drilling commitment for ASR vs. 20 years drilling commitment for MDSSP + STRAP.

there lies the rub....

 

[lawyerdoc2b]

So what is the maximum age the armed srvices accept mde students into the program?

There is no maximum age that I know of. I'm 52 with 4 years prior service. I got a waiver. The OBLC website (the 26-day basic course at Ft. Sam Houston) state that students range in age from 20s to age 55.

 

[lawyerdoc2b]

In the National Guard, you need to be able to have put in 20 years of service by the time you're 60 years old. If you are not prior service, this means being commissioned by the time you're 40 years old.

I'm not sure if they're issuing any waivers for this. I think they usually only do so for physicians.

You are correct that the ordinary rule is 20 years by 60. However, age waivers to stay in the Guard to age 68 are possible.

 

[tsbuqh]

Has anyone been promoted to 1LT here while on ASR? I know there has been past discussions of needing OBLC before being promoted, are there any states that have actually promoted ASR's? and if so at what time (1.5 years)?

The reason I ask is that in Kentucky they have not promoted medical or dental students on MDSSP. The reasoniing I was told was that promotion is automatic when we graduate, and also because while we are in school we are MSC but not really in an MSC billet, so that comunity does not really want to give up promotion to someone who is not truely in there comunity.

When I called BS, I was asked to prove what other states are promoting medical students. This really is not my strugle since I am already an 1LT (prior service credit) but there are medical students in my unit who are long overdue promtion, in my opinion.

Let me know if any medical or dental students in your state have been promoted.

 

[notdeadyet]

There is no maximum age that I know of. I'm 52 with 4 years prior service. I got a waiver. The OBLC website (the 26-day basic course at Ft. Sam Houston) state that students range in age from 20s to age 55.

Huh. I stand corrected. I knew there were waivers given for docs, I didn't realize that they did so for medical student as well. That's encouraging.

 

[tsbuqh]

Anyone have a problem with the Federal Tuition Assistance website? I finally got my CAC all set-up. It logs in on every other site I've tried, I can digitally sign forms, etc. But when I try to log in at minuteman.ngb.army.mil/benefits/, the page just starts refreshing in an endless loop.

Anyone run into the same problem?

Are you navigating straight there or following a link. The below email came out a couple of weeks ago, saying the links do not work.

classification: UNCLASSIFIED

Caveats: NONE

ALCON:

Kentucky Guard Soldiers need to go to

https://minuteman.ngb.army.mil/Benefits/


Virtual Armory no longer provides a valid link to Federal Tuition

Assistance.

 

[DeadCactus]

Are you navigating straight there or following a link. The below email came out a couple of weeks ago, saying the links do not work.

classification: UNCLASSIFIED

Caveats: NONE

ALCON:

Kentucky Guard Soldiers need to go to

https://minuteman.ngb.army.mil/Benefits/


Virtual Armory no longer provides a valid link to Federal Tuition

Assistance.

Yea, I went directly to that site and tried to log-in with CAC. The PIN input popped up, I entered it, and then it just goes into this cycle of trying to load a page and then reloading over and over again...

 

[eflix]

Make sure you're using Internet Explorer - I tried it a few times with other browsers and it didn't work. If that doesn't work, maybe try it from another computer?

 

[whosmk]

do military use credit card to pay for FTA? my application was approved last october for $4,500, haven't got it yet. when i talk to the officer who processed my application, he said they paid my school via credit card, payment was returned because my school doesn't take that type of payment. so he said he requested EFT but won't happen until after holidays. does this make sense? thanks

 

[DeadCactus]

Make sure you're using Internet Explorer - I tried it a few times with other browsers and it didn't work. If that doesn't work, maybe try it from another computer?

Yea, using IE. Thought I saw a site where I could configure FireFox to work. I'll give that a try. Sent an e-mail to the appropriate people, so hopefully early next week I'll get it resolved.

Might try installing on another computer if I can find a good candidate. Do military bases generally have a computer with a CAC reader somewhere for "public" use (the military public, not the general public)?

 

[DeadCactus]

Alright, think I got it working. Just went into IE and put all the security options to the absolute minimum...

 

[Barium56]

I am currently in the ASR program. I am looking at taking STRAP and the HPLR during residency but I don't know if I understand the payback. If I understand it correctly you can take STRAP every year of residency (I would be taking it for 3) and then I get start getting HPLR starting R2. But do I payback my obligation for these concurrently? Would I be looking at staying in the Guard for 6 years post-residency?

 

[notdeadyet]

I am looking at taking STRAP and the HPLR during residency but I don't know if I understand the payback. If I understand it correctly you can take STRAP every year of residency (I would be taking it for 3)

You can take STRAP at any point, but must finish up with it (in other words, if you want to take STRAP for 3 years of a 5 year residency, it must be the final 3 years of residency.

and then I get start getting HPLR starting R2.

I'd advise anyone doing career planning to request a copy of "Implementaton Guidance for ARNG AMEDD Officer Incentive Programs for FY 10-11" memo from 12/10/2009. This comes out annually and is the de facto bible of program benefits and requirements.

The language (6.f.7) states "Medical Corps officers that are board eligible or board certified are eligible to participate in the HPLR program."

That said, there are certain allowances for taking HPLR in residency during STRAP and is described in section 11. You can't take it while serving an obligation for another program and you need to be in a specialty on the Critical Shortage List. For FY 10-11, this is limited to Internal Medicine (and most subspecialties), Family, EM, Psychiatry, or Field Surgeon (which most medical specialties are eligible for, except for Nuc Med, Anesthesia, Radiology or Pathology).

As for timing, you can apply at the beginning of your R3 year and will receive payment 1 year later.

But do I payback my obligation for these concurrently?

When you are on HPLR, you are not paying back STRAP. But you can take HPLR while in residency without adding on obligation. Clear as mud?

Example 1: You are in a 5 year residency. You take HPLR for three years, R3-R5, while also taking STRAP. You graduate residency and start payback. You have not accrued any additional obligation.

Example 2: You are in a 3 year residency. You take HPLR for three years, starting R3, then continuing two years post-residency. You do not begin payback of STRAP until you finish your two years of HPLR.

Make sense?

 

[notdeadyet]

Worth noting that the above exception to non-board certified folks collecting on HPLR appears to be limited to folks on STRAP. I see nothing indicating that ASR folks can start HPLR as an R3. By my read, ASRs need to wait until Board Eligible, unless they want to sign up for STRAP.

 

[stonewall22]

Could someone PM me contact info for the AMEDD recruiter responsible for the Denver area? Thanks!

 

[koojo]

So here is the info I got from the top about OBLC. Looks like you can still go to the 3 week course:


Please pass on: Sorry for the delay, but I hate passing wrong info, so I wanted to get it RIGHT before responding.

Just spoke to CPT Esparza at AMEDD C&S for clarification again on the OBLC.
She has escalated this up the chain and admits that she passed some incorrect info regarding the OBLC for the OOE67 (Med and Dental Students ONLY). This DOES NOT apply to the 70B PA students.

The OOE67 (Med/Dental) students: They MAY go to the short course (3 week) OBLC. Check ATTRS for available dates but I pushed them out last correspondence. Any Guard member can access this at https://atrrs.army.mil.
Under search criteria, use AMEDD OBLC.

OF NOTE: The Guard has lost the SUMMER class so that might pose a problem for you. You can still go to the HPSP long course offered in the summer.
Also, I am told to make sure that if you do choose the short course, that you pay attention to the DL (Distance Learning) pre-requisite. They are working diligently to try to get the summer course option back, but no promises.

Please contact (blanked), to have loaded for the Resident Course. He may have a particular format by which to submit your request.
Contact him for Guidance. FYI: be certain of you intent to attend a certain course----loading you for a school and then backing out is not the rule!!!!
Please don't do this.

Again, sorry for the misinformation as I was misled. My apologies.

 

[EMH]

do military use credit card to pay for FTA? my application was approved last october for $4,500, haven't got it yet. when i talk to the officer who processed my application, he said they paid my school via credit card, payment was returned because my school doesn't take that type of payment. so he said he requested EFT but won't happen until after holidays. does this make sense? thanks

I believe it goes through the education office for your state's guard. In my case it was sent directly to my school's financial aid office with out me having to do anything. If it's getting delayed check with the education assistance office in your state.

 

[TheWholeTooth]

The Guard has lost the SUMMER class so that might pose a problem for you. You can still go to the HPSP long course offered in the summer.

Koojo, can you tell us why the NG lost the summer class? Aaaaagh. On ATRRS there are still two listed. (https://www.atrrs.army.mil/atrrscc/...RC)&crstitle=RC+-BASIC+OFFICER+LEADER&phase=2)

I swore in two months ago, and I'm really hoping to go this summer because it's going to be impossible the next three years.

 

[EMH]

Koojo, can you tell us why the NG lost the summer class? Aaaaagh. On ATRRS there are still two listed. (https://www.atrrs.army.mil/atrrscc/...RC)&crstitle=RC+-BASIC+OFFICER+LEADER&phase=2)

I swore in two months ago, and I'm really hoping to go this summer because it's going to be impossible the next three years.

Anybody know who to ask to find out when they're going to post a schedule for FY 2011 for OBLC? I am about to have to schedule my Sr year and would love to know.