Army National Guard's new Med student program details.

[DeadCactus]

Well this is going to be interesting then...

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[TheWholeTooth]

You need to have a record APFT on file that was passed within the 6 months prior to attending OBLC in order to pass. If you haven't taken one, someone in your command should be contacting you to come do one prior to leaving.

I leave on Wednesday for OBLC. And I am shocked -- SHOCKED, I tell you -- that my tool of a readiness NCO never mentioned this. Also, he told me I needed a 60 to pass the APFT, which I can do, but 70 might be tough.

People who sign up for combatives get less time to eat chow, less time for hygiene, and get covered in tire dust. Unless you WANT to do them AND can get 70% on a DAPFT, you'll do regular group PT

Any idea what % usually fail? I don't want to be one of the losers in fat camp, but it sort of sounds like PT might be the better end of the deal.

 

[notdeadyet]

I leave on Wednesday for OBLC. And I am shocked -- SHOCKED, I tell you -- that my tool of a readiness NCO never mentioned this.

I get the impression that this might not be adhered to as much by one state as another. But if you look under the info for the course, it's specified.

Also, he told me I needed a 60 to pass the APFT, which I can do, but 70 might be tough.

You do need a 60 on each component of the APFT to pass.

 

[TheWholeTooth]

I get the impression that this might not be adhered to as much by one state as another. But if you look under the info for the course, it's specified.

I have no doubt. But the only information he's been able to get me is a website that's under construction. It's been like pulling teeth. I had to get the packing list and welcome letter from a classmate who went last year, and even though my orders were cut in April, I didn't get them until today. (Um, hi? Need those? To get on the plane? And in-process?)

60 on the APFT -- I thought so, but Mr. Freeze said 70. I'm choosing to have no worries or expectations; I'm going to be a blank slate when I get there. Yes, sir, sounds great.

 

[tylerh87]

Per the instructor for the July 2010 OBLC course:

"The reason for the PT test prior is to make sure you are able to pass.
Technically you are not suppose to come to BOLC-RC unless you can pass a
PT test. However, if you haven't taken one don't worry about it. We'll
take care of you!! "

Therefore, you just have to pass one when you get there. The one prior is basically to make sure you are honest with yourself and get ready to pass the one at OBLC.

As far as the flight goes, are you guys wearing civvies or uniforms? Not sure which to do.

 

[notdeadyet]

60 on the APFT -- I thought so, but Mr. Freeze said 70.

My take on Mr. Freeze's comment is that maybe that's what you need to score to be exempt from regular PT and take the Combatives? Don't know. But I haven't ever heard of 70 for the APFT as a baseline for OBLC before.

As far as the flight goes, are you guys wearing civvies or uniforms? Not sure which to do.

Downside of wearing the uniform is that you're on display and need to act accordingly. Upside of wearing the uniform is that you're usually on the list of first pass for a free upgrade.

 

[DeadCactus]

Alright, good to hear that we can take one there. Only part I'm really worried about is the running...

I think 70 was used for combatives because if you're not firmly passing the PT test, they want you doing PT more than combatives.

 

[notdeadyet]

I think 70 was used for combatives because if you're not firmly passing the PT test, they want you doing PT more than combatives.

Makes sense. But if 70 is the cut-off, I'd expect to see a whole lot of bodies NOT doing combatives...

 

[Mr. Freeze]

Again, if you have both the desire to do combatives AND more than 70% in EACH event on a DAPFT given there, you CAN do combatives. If you don't have both of those things, you do reg group PT with everyone else. This only applies to RC, Reserve Component, i.e. all of you. If the AD folks get a 71%x3, THEY HAVE TO FIGHT.

I would not sweat the APFT. Put it this way, I started 23 APR. Our PT test was slated to be 14 May. In a course that ended 17 May. There was lightning at the track the morning of 14 May. Not bad, since I was expecting an APFT before my first San Antonio sunrise.

Regardless, it is a Diagnostic, hence "D"APFT, which not have been clear. There is not really enough time to correct a PT failure, so they are merely providing you with either a baseline or update on your fitness, inasmuch as a PT test measures it . So go smoke it, fail it, or pray for lightning. It makes no difference, and I think all your 1059 will say is that you took a DAPFT.

AFAIK, you are encouraged to travel within CONUS in uniform. Not required. Personally, I take every appropriate opportunity to shed a positive light on the uniform of a volunteer Army of a nation at war(s). It is pretty much a blank check for vets, little kids, and MILFs to come up and chat and a big sign to the TSA to leave you the **** alone.

 

[TheWholeTooth]

I started 23 APR. Our PT test was slated to be 14 May. In a course that ended 17 May. ... Not bad, since I was expecting an APFT before my first San Antonio sunrise.

That's crazy! I'm slowly finding more information about OBLC, and everything says you'll take the APFT within 72 hours of arriving. A schedule was posted a few pages back and a classmate who went last August both say the APFT is the morning of Day 2. This is a good example of how I, an inveterate planner, really need not to expect aaaaanything to go a certain way.

 

[Mr. Freeze]

Plan on your concept of how things will go rather than my anomalous experience. But in ALL things military, stay flexible.

 

[DrRoast]

With the departure for OBLC looming less that 24 hours away, I'm trying to figure out how much stuff to bring. How much stuff is everyone taking? Seems like pack the ACU stuff in my duffel, and then civy stuff in another suitcase? Will their even be room to store two bags down there? Will the airline let a military guy check two bags for free? I've heard we have a locker or something down there for storage, is this true, how big? I should have looked into all this earlier.

 

[Mr. Freeze]

If you aren't gonna fly in uniform, at least shave and have a copy of your orders. I THINK you get 2 free bags, but I know you get 70 lbs. My duffel weighed 68 coming home.

As far as storage, you will have a hotel room. It could be on/off post. You will only be there on the weekends. I dunno if onpost lodging has storage for valuables. I just stuffed mine under the mattress at the Crown Plaza Airport.

 

[DrRoast]

If you aren't gonna fly in uniform, at least shave and have a copy of your orders. I THINK you get 2 free bags, but I know you get 70 lbs. My duffel weighed 68 coming home.

As far as storage, you will have a hotel room. It could be on/off post. You will only be there on the weekends. I dunno if onpost lodging has storage for valuables. I just stuffed mine under the mattress at the Crown Plaza Airport.

Wait a second, we are going to be in a hotel? I was under the impression we were going to stay in barracks when not in the field, no? And they continue to pay for a hotel while we are in the field? Just making sure I understand correctly that we will leave our stuff in a hotel room. Do all people get a hotel room, or only those who they can't fit in the barracks? Sorry for all the questions, I'm starting to stress about all this stuff.

 

[Mr. Freeze]

Unless they take our advice and NOT pay the roughly $655,000 we calculated keeping just the rooms for us cost the taxpayers, there exists a potential to be off-post. LTs share rooms. Don't know about on post. Depending on how big the RC class will be since there are like 70 ASR's going, you may have an even better chance of off-post. The way they set us up, all RC was off, all AD and certain RC AOC's were on (all the "slow course" folks).

At any rate, you will have no more than one other person in your room, which will be yours throughout the course. If you feel comfortable leaving your stuff in there, you can.

You also get a mealcard for the weekdays (conveniently the same as most of your field time), and per diem for the weekends. You'll get at least one hot meal per day. Prior service folks know this, but eat it now, taste it later.

 

[DrRoast]

Do we need to bring our own towels? Also I read in a previous post you suggest a towel, no rinse body wash, and bucket rather than baby wipes. Is one supposed to bring the items/baby wipes to TX or get them down there?

 

[Mr. Freeze]

You'll get a chance to go to the commissary before you go the field, and if you're not a parent you may not know that wipes come in packs of 3 at a minimum. You won't go through that many. Unless you do combatives. So if you do the wipes thing, find two battle buddies and split a pack when you get down there. No reason to carry them down.

As to the body wash, google "no rinse body wash". I got this at Bass Pro in addition to taking baby wipes, just as a beta test run. I didn't take wipes out the second time to the field. I bathed with a capful of that, a washrag from the hotel, and a canteen cup. Which reminds me, you probably wanna wash your canteen cups before you use them.

 

[TheWholeTooth]

Hello from OBLC! Day 1: Arrive on base, check in at one building, get shuttled to another building (the hotel), drop off bags, change into PT gear, go to another building, in-process. They took two copies of my orders, did a ht/wt (no worries if you don't pass it -- they'll tell you that later), filled out a few sheets of paper. Did I really need two copies of my oath of office? Did I really need medical records? dental records? direct deposit forms? Um, no. So far they haven't asked for ANY of that. So glad I worked so hard to get all that paperwork together.

Day 2: Death by PowerPoint begins! They'd sent out a day-by-day schedule before OBLC began, but they immediately deviated from that. Lots of briefings from lots of people ... it's all turning into mashed potatoes in my head. One guy (an LT) gave us a sheet to fill out and told us he'd give us five minutes to do it, then immediately the first sgt started in on his presentation. He got mad at us and called us inconsiderate because "I don't like talking to the tops of people's heads. And that's inconsiderate." (Dude, the LT just told us to fill out this paperwork, and you started five min early. Is this how it's going to be?) But whatever, he was the only hard-ass of the day. (And yeah, I do realize that wasn't really all that hard-ass.) It took about two hours to get squared away with our gear issuing.

Day 3: Land navigation class, lunch, then more briefings. There is one high-intensity major in charge of the class. I really don't ever want to have to talk to her.

I don't know who planned this, but it's classic Army: We have days 1, 2, 3, then a frigging 3-day weekend. WTF? Why not just start this class on July 6 and end three days later? Anyway, on Monday the only thing we have to do is get our stuff packed for the first FTX and get it on the bus. Tuesday we have class all day and then move to Camp Bullis for five days.

Anything we don't want to bring to Bullis can stay in the hotel. There's a wall safe and a sort of wardrobe you can lock if you brought a padlock. Everyone has a roommate, but it's a decent enough hotel room. Bring an ice tray if you want ice -- can't find a machine anywhere, but the dorm fridge in here has a real freezer. There's also cable and a microwave.

Oh -- PT! Yeah, they've completely changed how they do that now. They suddenly decided to do a PT test on I think July 7 (day 2 of the FTX) so that people who score high enough and want to can do combatives. Someone said that PT test is optional -- you can just do regular PT during that time instead. There's some time for PT during the FTXs, but I don't see it on the schedule for when we're back on base. Then on July 23, they do a diagnostic PT test. Yep, three days before we leave.

 

[notdeadyet]

Thanks for the summary, TheWholeTooth. If you have time (and you may very well not), we've been trying to get folks to put together a blow-by-blow of the day-by-day or week-by-week on OBLC, and no one's done so yet. If you can do it in realtime, maybe after you're finished we could copy-paste it together and slap it up on the OBC/ODS/COT stickie, where OBLC is sorely underrepresented.

Thanks again for taking the time. Hope you enjoy yourself...

 

[DeadCactus]

TheWholeTooth pretty much covered everything that happened, but I'll through in my general impression:

Day 1:
Show up and check-in. Make peace with a lack of Intel going in. What little Intel they provide is usually a mix between things relevant to us and stuff only applicable to the longer course. Give up on planning ahead and resign to the simple goal of being "At the right place, at the right time, and in the right uniform."


Day 2:
Death by powerpoint and TA-50 issue. Mostly introductory administrative powerpoints. Also a powerpoint on customs and courtesies, which is a nice crash course into that funny shoulder/elbow flex people keep doing at you. The schedule had a class on marching/drill in it, but I think the rain vetoed that plan.

Get introduced to the chains (plural) of command. You have an academic chain, an administrative chain, and a student chain. Also the day student leadership will volunteer and/or be voluntold.

[Note that the reserve component (RC) class merges with the HPSP/USUHS class and each has its own chain of command which sort of blend into each other.]


Day 3:
More death by powerpoint and a landnav course. This time the powerpoints were more about the academic side of things. Basically what to expect in the FTXs. As mentioned, there was originally a DAPFT scheduled for three days before we leave. A second ad hoc one was added a day or two into the first FTX for people who want to do combatives. You have to score a 70+ in each category to do combatives.

The RC class will apparently simply be falling in on the AD course when we join up for FTXs. A lot of talk from OBLC staff about AD/RC integration and how we need to work together. Not sure if it's a major issue or if they just sit in front of both groups and talking about how it'll be an issue until it they've created one.


Misc:
I've come to the conclusion that just about no one has any idea what ASR is. They've heard of it, know most of our class is part of it, but they don't seem to have any clue what that means besides medical officer.

 

[notdeadyet]

Thanks for the summary, DeadCactus...

I've come to the conclusion that just about no one has any idea what ASR is. They've heard of it, know most of our class is part of it, but they don't seem to have any clue what that means besides medical officer.

Much like the rest of the Army. Or National Guard. Why should they be any different?

 

[koojo]

Yep, the summary's above are correct. If you are prior service army like myself, you'll find this course a walk in the park.

 

[Pghboy18]

I'm interested in applying to the ASR program but can't seem to find any information outside of threads on SDN - there isn't anything about it on the AMEDD website and I can't seem to find a recruiter in my area who knows anything about the program. Does anyone have any advice as to who I might be able to contact? Any insight would be very appreciated!

 

[notdeadyet]

I'm interested in applying to the ASR program but can't seem to find any information outside of threads on SDN

Read the last five or so pages of this thread and you'll get the latest info on ASR. When the last slots filled in December, 2009, the program completed the third and final planned year of taking new candidates.

Official word is that the program is being "halted" but it has not officially been discontinued yet. It may never come back, it may come back in years, it may start taking new applicants for the new Army fiscal year (October, 2010). There was rumors that it would take new applicants as people graduated from the program, but that hasn't happened yet with the slot of graduates from May.

If you're still interested in the programs the Guard has to offer, you can look into MDSSP while in medical school, STRAP while in residency, or HPLRP (loan repayment) and Special Pay post-residency. Do a search on this thread on those terms and you should get lots of details.

Also, the smart move would be to contact an AMEDD recruiter in your state. They have the latest on programs for medical students for where you'll be going to medical school. If you are accepted to medical school, just let us know where you are going to be heading and one of us should be able to hook you up.

 

[DeadCactus]

We had Monday off due to the Fourth of July with the exception of meeting up to load duffel bags onto the truck that would bring them to the Forward Operating Base (FOB) that we'd be staying at for the FTX portions of the course.

Tuesday was filled with more death by powerpoint until the evening. In the evening we loaded up on buses and made our way to the Camp Bullis. Put our gear in our tents and were then issued our brand new best friend: the M16. From that point, your new buddy is your constant companion. You will eat together, sleep together, and take a s- together.

Speaking of which the FOB consists of a number of air-conditioned tents with cots in them. Bathrooms consist of a load of portapoties. There are some sinks and polished metal mirrors lined up near the rear of the FOB for shaving and brushing your teeth. Using them to bath or wash your hair is prohibited so showering is limited to baby wipes or no-rinse body wash.

Breakfast and dinner are generally hot meals served cafeteria line style. Lunch is generally MREs or food from a catering truck that shows up. The catering truck has a damn nice spread (hamburgers, tacos, fruit salads, sodas, gatorade, coffee, etc) and makes a good break from MREs.

You'll form up every morning to get accountability and then move on to whatever training is scheduled for the day.

Different people get tasked each night with various duties (fire watch, serving breakfast/dinner, trash, filling up the handwashing stations with water, etc) for the evening and the next day.

While in the field, the reserve components class combines with the HPSP and USUHS class. It makes the chain of command kind of a strange as you end up with two in one and some ambiguity on when which is in effect. Not too major of an issue.

That covers the general field stuff so on to FTX1. The first FTX is basically weapons training and an intro to land navigation. The first full day in the field began with combatives or PT. Anyone can do either, but it was threatened that those who went to combatives but failed the DAPFT near the end of the course would have some negative remarks on their academic report for the class. Following that was a quick breakfast with the rest of the day spent on an introduction to the M16 rifle. This basically covered how to operate it how zeroing works.

Day two started with breakfast. Half of the class practiced land navigation with a cadre member following close by. The other half spent the day at the range zeroing their M16 rifles. Both groups also got an introduction to the M9 pistol. Day three was the same with the groups reversed.

Day four is Saturday. Everyone's skin is sun abused and we all smell like balls. Load up duffel bags onto the truck and head to the final day of training for FTX1. The plan is to do a mock qualification with the M16. They take you a range, targets pop up and you shoot at them. They tell you how you did, but no score is recorded so it makes no difference whether you shoot 4 or 40. Finally you head back to the FOB, wait for the buses to show up, and ride them back to Ft. Sam Houston.

Then you realize the guy with the key to get the duffel bags out of the truck isn't around and wait for that to get sorted out. Grab duffel bag, go shower, drink alcohol. Enjoy Sunday off before heading back into the field Monday. The following weeks are scheduled to leave the field Friday, but have classroom stuff on Saturday.

 

[prior grunt]

I am starting med school Aug. 2nd, and am very close to signing up for MDSSP. I have twins on the way and know I will need the money. My recruiter told me that they are trying to start up a new program that is close to ASR but is unsure of when it will start up. Has anyone heard about this? If so, does anyone know when it will start up? I am debating on waiting until OCT. to see what might happen. Since I have been in the military for 10 years it would be tough to give up that full-time paycheck for MDSSP.

-Thanks

 

[notdeadyet]

I have twins on the way and know I will need the money. My recruiter told me that they are trying to start up a new program that is close to ASR but is unsure of when it will start up. Has anyone heard about this?

Yeah, lots of folks have heard about this. No one has seen any kind of paper about this. We also heard about it this time last year.

If you have a good relationship with your recruiter and believe in this new program, discuss signing up without signing on for MDSSP.

 

[DeadCactus]

Week two was an improvement on week one. The field's begun to become routine and so the week flew by much faster. The activities also were a lot more fun.

Monday was a mock pistol qualification with the M9. We showed up in the morning and took the buses from FSH straight to the pistol range. Same as the M16 mock qualification: go to a range, shoot at targets, and get a score. No official record is made. There was some concurrent didactic training going on about convoys, IEDs, and calling in MEDEVACS.

The next three days were spent on convoy training, CBRN training, or an obstacle course. The order you went through depended on your group.

For CBRN training you covered things like how to set up a decontamination zone, how to use a gas mask, how to use the detector kits, etc. The crown jewel of the day was putting on your mask, walking into a room with CS gas, and then removing your mask. The idea being that if you were fine with your mask but burning pain without the mask: you would conclude that the mask works and have confidence in it.

The obstacle course consisted of a team of four carrying a litter with a mannequin patient through a path with some narrow passages, a few walls, and under some barbed wire. A few people with blanks are hiding out in the woods to add an extra element to the task.

The convoy training is probably one of the coolest things you get to do. It consists of three events:

1) You practice exiting a HMMWV that's rolled over. Pretty much a fun little carnival ride. You hope into a HMMWV attached to a machine and the operator rotates the machine at a moderate pace and then stops it on it's side or roof. You're then tasked with getting out.

2) The coolest thing you do is hop into a convoy simulator. They have a set of HMMWV mocked up inside of a building. Each one is in a room surround by a wall they project your virtual surroundings onto. Everyone is assigned various roles in each truck and in the convoy chain of command and then you carry out a virtual mission. Your driver drives, your chain of command communicates with each other and virtual support services (CAS, EOD, MEDEVAC, etc), and your gunners fire at insurgents (complete with recoil in the rifles).

3) The last is a convoy exercise where they load a group of you into trucks and give you a magazine of blanks, assign a few leadership positions, and then drive you through the FSM area where some fake IEDs are set up and a few cadre with weapons and blanks are ready to ambush.

At the end of the fourth day there was a night land navigation exercise. After dinner they sent us out into the woods in pairs to find an assigned list of points. Depending on how you do, you end up getting to bed around midnight to two in the morning.

On the last day (Friday) we woke up, grabbed breakfast, and then did a day land navigation exercise. Same as above, but without flashlights. I'm not sure if they normally do it in that order or if this was an anomaly. After land nav, we sat around for about four hours waiting for the buses to arrive (they'd been scheduled for much later, presumably to allow time to find any people who got lost).

During the four hour wait, there was an After Action Report for the last week where they basically told us what we did good and what we did bad about last week. During the AAR there was also a chance for students to provide input on the good and the bad aspects of the training so far. This largely devolved into a session of whining and ass-kissing, but that's another story.

Saturday will be more classroom stuff and then it's back in the field Monday.

I know these synopsii are kind of brief, but I'm hoping it will be enough to refresh people's memories and get some more input and perspective once the course wraps up and the other folks have a bit more time.

For now, it's time to go drink...

 

[Mr. Freeze]

We SP'd for our night nav at 0300, chow at 0700, SP for day at 0800. If you knocked out your points and were smart, you found a draw in which to set up a hasty fighting position and got a nap. If you were a gunner and went back to the FOB, you were put on a detail until chow...

 

[TheWholeTooth]

If you knocked out your points and were smart, you found a draw in which to set up a hasty fighting position and got a nap.

Yeah. No sleeping during the day where the cadre can see you.

I sort of made my peace with how much unbelievable time we waste out there. There is no way to plan for the downtime -- when my group was going for the convoy simulator, they had a problem with the software, so there we were, sitting in the convoy truck for 45 min. (Did you pack your boards study book in your pocket? Probably not.) All told, we probably waited 80 min to get to do 20 min of awesomeness. It's almost always going to be like that, but you don't know. You don't know if there are going to be three solid hours of rotating classes, or if it's going to be waiting 90 min for a 5-min trigger-pull exercise. Always bring a book or something. Some had cards, cribbage, Phase 10, etc.

Don't sweat all their BS about "passing" 7 of 10 warrior tasks. We tested on four of them this week -- no record is kept, no names, no sign-in, nothing. Plenty of people probably didn't even bother rotating in through the radio station. When one soldier was reading the 9-line medevac request she'd written (reading it to the tester -- that's how you get tested), the tester pulled out a cell phone and started texting. While the soldier was still reading her damn test. WTF? I realized then that I probably do not need to take this as seriously as I had been.

 

[Mr. Freeze]

Now that you mention it, I left out what might have been my biggest piece of advice, since no one specifically asked. Useless now, as the third FTX has much less downtime, but any who has experience knows especially range days offer lots of sporadic time to read, study, etc. I filled mine trying to help new officers begin their journey, but had I not been a April-May senior I would have had something pertinent to read.

And like one of the MC O3's said, "Lt. Freeze, in 6 months you'd shoot someone in the face for the opportunity to sit in the Texas sun surrounded by hot women in camouflage while you wait untold hours for a bus to take you back to a hotel with ice-cold Shiner." It didn't even take that long. Enjoy it...

 

[ngpotential]

Yeah, lots of folks have heard about this. No one has seen any kind of paper about this. We also heard about it this time last year.

If you have a good relationship with your recruiter and believe in this new program, discuss signing up without signing on for MDSSP.

I was hoping someone could give me some clarification on MDSSP and the additional obligation incurred. My recruiter suggested that taking MDSSP would also require me to take STRAP (and a nearly decade long commitment after residency), but this doesn't sound correct. I know this is primarily an ASR thread, but does anyone have any experience with MDSSP/STRAP they can share?

 

[notdeadyet]

My recruiter suggested that taking MDSSP would also require me to take STRAP (and a nearly decade long commitment after residency), but this doesn't sound correct.

It's not correct. Are you dealing with an AMEDD recruiter? If not, start. Non-AMEDD recruiters have very inaccurate information about programs for medical students. Which is fair enough. I doubt we know much about the different options for folks joining the infantry.

I know this is primarily an ASR thread, but does anyone have any experience with MDSSP/STRAP they can share?

I'll do another post outlining the two programs and hopefully can reference that, since it gets asked every few weeks/months.

 

[notdeadyet]

MDSSP and STRAP Notes:

MDSSP is taken while in medical school. STRAP is taken while in residency. You can take either or both. Each gives you a monthly stipend of about $2K. You do not get any housing allowance or tuition benefits (other than the federal $4,500 tuition waiver and whatever your state grants to National Guardsmen). Your years spent in this program count towards retirement.

While in either of these programs, you are expected to drill, but you covered by Flexi-Training, which means you can drill as little as once every three months. Before signing, make sure your potential CO is on-board with this and agrees. I haven't heard of one who hasn't yet.

MDSSP and STRAP each have a 2:1 payback commitment when taken individually.

Once you start either program you much continue until you finish. (e.g.: If you want to take MDSSP for 2 years, you must take it in MS III and IV; if you want to take STRAP for 2 years of a five year residency, you must take it in PGY IV/V.)

Ex 1: You take MDSSP for 3 years (MS II/III/IV). You receive your $2K/month stipend and drill for these three years. You are obligated to drill for six years once you finish medical school.

Ex 2: You take STRAP for 2 years of a four year residency (PGY III/IV). You receive your $2K/month stipend and drill for these two years. You are obligated to drill for four years once you finish residency.

The only exception to this 2:1 commitment is if you take MDSSP and STRAP together. When taken together, MDSSP becomes 1:1 payback and STRAP remains 2:1. These years are paid back after residency.

Ex 3: You take MDSSP your last three years of medical school, then take STRAP for all four years of a four year residency. You receive your $2K/month stipend and drill for these seven years. Upon completing residency, you begin payback by drilling for 11 years.

Hope this clears things up...

 

[jyoudan]

Phew! Been awhile since I was on this thread. I read through some of the past few pages, and am definitely disheartened to hear that the ASR program is suspended, but I do want to join nonetheless. Someone wrote earlier that:


"2. My recruiter suggested I not do MDSSP since the commitment would be such that it would be many years before I could take advantage of the other (better) incentives for physicians in the guard (and I agree). I have three kids, I'm not sure I can make it on just loans. She suggested I just join the guard so I get drill and annual training pay, and that she would put me on orders as often as possible to help with recruiting at my school (which has no ASR) or to help physicians in the guard with physicals, etc. Anyway, she said that medical students, even if not ASR or MDSSP, are non-deployable, but I haven't seen that in writing. Anyone know definitively?

I believe this is true IF you enter as an 00E67 (Medical Student). That said, I question the financial benefit of joining in relation to the time you have to spend away from studying. I suppose with FTA and any state benefits there might still be enough of an incentive to join, but I would be careful of taking on such a large burden for a comparatively small financial return. "


So if you join the ARNG as a medical student (00E67) but not as part of a student program, you can still receive the educational benefits of a particular state correct? For example, the nj tuition waiver program. In addition, you receive the FTA, drill pay, and full time pay during oblc. I just want to make sure the u are non-deployable as if listed as a med student. Then, if the asr program opens up, I can join that later on?

 

[notdeadyet]

So if you join the ARNG as a medical student (00E67) but not as part of a student program, you can still receive the educational benefits of a particular state correct? For example, the nj tuition waiver program.

Correct. The state educational benefits are for any Guardsmen, so if you're in drilling status, you'll qualify.

In addition, you receive the FTA, drill pay, and full time pay during oblc.

Correct.

I just want to make sure the u are non-deployable as if listed as a med student.

Confirm with your state, but med students have always signed up as non-deployable that I've seen.

Then, if the asr program opens up, I can join that later on?

No one can say. In the past, this has been the case. If they start it up again, they can make whatever policy they want, as it's past the three year mark and the old policy no longer applies. They could start up a new program that is only eligible to folks not currently in the Guard (which would be the smart thing to do, from a recruiting perspective).

But again, no one can say, because we're speculating about a program that does not currently exist. Make sense?

 

[jyoudan]

But again, no one can say, because we're speculating about a program that does not currently exist. Make sense?

True, but it can't hurt to hope.

I guess my other question was: when we get our acceptance letter, do we start the process and then drilling wont start until after you start your first year? or can u start drilling and such before school even starts?

 

[notdeadyet]

I guess my other question was: when we get our acceptance letter, do we start the process and then drilling wont start until after you start your first year? or can u start drilling and such before school even starts?

This will be very state-by-state.

Most states will require you to have an acceptance letter in hand before starting the application process, but others will let you start sooner. The process from when you first get the packet of paperwork to submit to the time you swear in is usually 3-5 months, very rarely any quicker and sometimes longer if you need waivers for bankruptcies, injuries, drug use, arrests, etc.

You begin drilling after you swear in. Whether or not they'll swear you in before starting med school is going to be up to your individual state. If you let us know what state you're in, we might be able to help make sure you speak to the right person. Up to you.

 

[Drachfar]

Has any one heard any news regarding a replacement program for ASR? Also, is there a list of AMMED rectuiters by state? I'm starting med school in louisiana this August. Thanks!

 

[notdeadyet]

Has any one heard any news regarding a replacement program for ASR?

Nada.

Also, is there a list of AMMED rectuiters by state? I'm starting med school in louisiana this August. Thanks!

I don't know anyone in LA. I'd give it a couple of days to see if anyone responds to your post. If not, I'll PM you a link to some people in LA, but I don't know any of them personally.

Best of luck.

 

[ngpotential]

It's not correct. Are you dealing with an AMEDD recruiter? If not, start. Non-AMEDD recruiters have very inaccurate information about programs for medical students. Which is fair enough. I doubt we know much about the different options for folks joining the infantry.

I'll do another post outlining the two programs and hopefully can reference that, since it gets asked every few weeks/months.

I am dealing with the AMEDD recruiter, but I heard through the grapevine that this recruiter is new to the job. One of my non-recruiter contacts is trying to get in touch with the AMEDD recruiter's CO to clear this up.

It does seem a little odd that they would let anyone take MDSSP for two years (i.e. ~$48k) and repay that obligation concurrent with the remaining four years of the original service contract. Seems like there must be some fine print I skipped over...

 

[notdeadyet]

It does seem a little odd that they would let anyone take MDSSP for two years (i.e. ~$48k) and repay that obligation concurrent with the remaining four years of the original service contract.

Meaning, if you're going to join the Guard as a medical student anyway, there's no contractual reason why you shouldn't take MDSSP for the last two years of medical school? Makes sense.

Seems like there must be some fine print I skipped over...

Not that I know of. I just think that they consider MDSSP the best way to recruit medical students. I don't think there's ever been a big push to have them sign up outside of any program.

 

[DeadCactus]

Third and final week is all AMEDD stuff. You basically cover the lower three levels of medical care. Levels 4 and 5 are the hospital in Germany and the major CONUS medical centers, respectively. I assume we don't really talk much about the latter two since it's assumed a physician has a pretty clear understanding of how hospitals work. It's a shorter FTX, only four days

Day one is just driving to the FOB, checking out weapons, and then a set of three informal classes on levels 1-3 of medical care. You sit around and a cadre member explains what each level does, what care it can provide, and how it's generally set up.

Day two through four involve rotating through a mock-up of each level at one per day. You go to a mock up of a particularly level each day and practice running a mass casualty event through it. The lucky ones rotate through level 1 first. Whatever day you finish level 1 is the day you get to clean your rifle and turn it in for the final time.

The first day seemed like a waste of time that only reiterated things talked about on Saturday in the classroom.

The level 1 day was a good experience as it's a chance to see the layout of a Battalion Aid Station and a chance to learn some of the considerations you have to take into account when laying one out, especially as the fake mass casualty event starting rolling through and showing weaknesses in your layout and planning.

The level 3 day felt like it was dragged on far too long. The tour of a mock field hospital was informative, but running a fake mass casualty even through it seemed like a waste of time. Doing it at some point later in our careers with the properly trained people playing their own roles (instead of a few hundred medical students pretending they know what they're doing) would have been useful. Not to mention that there would be more than 5 minutes of planning going into preparation for mass casualty events at a major facility.

The level 2 day was a middle ground between level 1 and level 3. Great to see what one can expect at a level 2, but the mass casualty there was again of questionable value though definitely better than day 3.

All in all, a lot of downtime again but some relevant and useful things learned.

Days two through four also had PT every morning, including a DAPFT for the HPSP kids on Thursday morning with the RC and USUHS folks doing some light stretching. The whole OBLC experience as disappointingly light on PT, though the Class Advisor started offering an optional run in some of the afternoons.

Friday we were back at Fort Sam Houston. The reserve folks took a DAPFT in the morning and the USUHS took a APFT. In the afternoon, the reserve folks turned in equipment and got out-processing paperwork filled out. The day closed off with an AAR.

Saturday was a few final classes and some surveys. Sunday is off. Monday is graduation. Teh end.

Overall, the course was an interesting experience. You learn some interesting stuff, but prepare to "hurry up and wait" for the three weeks you are there. The only real complain I have against the course is an overwhelming atmosphere of "we're all just here because there needs to be a check in the box".

It represents a lot of people's indoctrination into the military and I feel that rather than taking the chance to hold us to the standards any other officers would be held to, it just allowed a lot of people to begin there career with the same experience and attitude that leads the rest of the Army to view AMEDD as the Rain Man of the military.

Maybe it's just me, but I would expect that three weeks of Basic Officer training should produce an Officer proficient with a rifle, able to march in formation and lead a formation, knowledgeable on how to wear the uniform and how to act when wearing it, and in better shape afterwards than before. All that would require is a little more time on the range and cadre dedicated to holding students to the proper standards. I don't know if it's complacency on the part of the cadre or the results of the simple reality that they need medical officers so badly, though I tend to think it's more of the latter.

Still, it was a memorable experience with a lot of good people to meet. If you're going, the best advice is to bring some cards and a book or two and just be patient and try to learn whatever you can. The prior service folks among your peers will be a great asset and will help you learn more of what you need to know if you are willing. Over all, just enjoy. It'll be pretty fun if you go with the right attitude...

 

[notdeadyet]

Great synopsis, DeadCactus. Yours has been far and away the most detailed that we've seen regarding NG OBLC. Thanks for this...

 

[prior grunt]

I heard some news from my recruiter. He said that he contacted the incentives manager at national guard bureau. She said that if someone takes MDSSP they have to take STRAP to receive HPLRP. I have read the memo on all of these incentives and have not seen this. What are some thoughts on this. It seems that I get different answers from everyone I talk to. I must say it is getting rather frustrating.

 

[notdeadyet]

I heard some news from my recruiter. He said that he contacted the incentives manager at national guard bureau. She said that if someone takes MDSSP they have to take STRAP to receive HPLRP.

Miscommunication somewhere. HPLRP has nothing to do with MDSSP/STRAP. In fact, HPLRP was designed as a benefit to attract physicians post-residency.

Here's the interaction between HPLRP and MDSSP/STRAP:

- MDSSP: You can only take HPLRP after you are board certified. You can not take HPLRP while you are in payback mode for another obligation (like MDSSP), so you would need to finish your MDSSP commitment before signing up for HPLRP.

- STRAP: If you are in STRAP, you can start HPLRP after your second year of residency is finished. Once you are finished with residency, you can not take HPLRP again until you have finished your STRAP payback.
Ex 1: You take STRAP for a four year psych program. You take HPLRP (while receiving STRAP payments) during R3 and R4. When you finish residency, you owe 8 years of obligation from STRAP. You can not take the final year of HPLRP you are eligible for until you have completed those 8 years.

I have read the memo on all of these incentives and have not seen this. What are some thoughts on this. It seems that I get different answers from everyone I talk to.

I'd show your recruiter the policy document you have (which should jibe with what I've described above... let me know if it doesn't for some reason...) and ask him to forward the doc to the NGB incentives rep. If she disagrees with the policy doc, have him ask her to forward on an updated policy doc or conflicting documentation.

When you deal with the NGB (or the Army in general), it can be like a game of telephone. If it ain't in writing, it ain't. Ask for verification in writing. If it can't be provided, it's opinion, which doesn't amount to much.

 

[Mr. Freeze]

Can the payback periods for STRAP and HPLRP run concurrently? My incentives briefing handout is in storage somewhere...

For that matter, can Special Pay run concurrent with any of these?

 

[notdeadyet]

Can the payback periods for STRAP and HPLRP run concurrently? My incentives briefing handout is in storage somewhere...

No. See #1 in my explanation above this one. HPLRP can not be paid taken during the Phase 2 (payback phase) of any program, including STRAP or MDSSP. It can during ASR, because ASR is not considered an obligation-incurring program (i.e.: we have no commitment other than the standard six years drilling).

For that matter, can Special Pay run concurrent with any of these?

Nope. Special Pay is the same gig. Can't be taken concurrently with any other programs, can't be taken during the payback phase of any program, and must be taken AFTER any owed payback is paid back..

 

[Mr. Freeze]

Ah, I missed it since I never read anything that starts with MDSSP.

*Nevermind, found it...

 

[notdeadyet]

I was under the impression that both Special Pay and HPLRP incur a 1:1 repayment.

Neither incur obligation other than the year you take them.

With Special Pay, you sign up for 1, 2, or 3 years and you get a check cut each year. You are obligated to stay for those years. Three years of payments equals three years of service.

For HPLRP, you sign up for it. One year later, you get $40K paid off to your student loans. You can do this for a total of three years.

They're not really 1:1 because that implies that you owe something when you're done with them. You don't. You only owe the years you participate in the programs. Make sense?

I don't see myself taking STRAP, but if I did so during residency, then began HPLRP after pgy2 when would the clock start on the obligations?

It would be like Ex. 1 in my post above.

Say you do a three year residency and take STRAP for all three years. During PGY3, you could take HPLRP while ALSO continuing to take STRAP. After you finished PGY3, you'd start paying back STRAP at the typical 2:1 ratio. Once you finished your 6 years of post-residency service, you could start up HPLRP again for your final two years. Make sense?

I really like 1:1 much better...

Not sure what you mean.