Ask me (almost) anything

[Lindsayvarkula]

Thanks so much for doing this LizzyM!

Last summer I completed an internship at a well-known hospital... however, the internship was categorized as a nursing internship. This allowed me to have a lot of clinical experience (I got to interact with patients, perform basic life support, and assist physicians). Would med schools look down upon the fact that it was a NURSING internship, even though I got a lot of good experiences from it?

Thank you!

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[LizzyM]

How do you look at applicants who send multiple updates (all saying new things) post-interview at a top tier school? It is considered weird/excessive or does it show passion and commitment for the school? Can such updates help you score an acceptance?

Do update letters make it more likely for the applicant to be waitlisted rather than accepted (because the school knows you love them too much and will go even if they accept you off the waitlist, and not outright)?

When's a good time to send a post-interview update letter? If a school decides in March, is early-mid Feb too late?

Thanks in advance!

The other adcom members and I don't see these updates, only the office staff & Dean see them. If they arrive before a decision is made by the adcom, they don't factor into the decision because we don't know they exist. I do think that they can help "show interest" which can be a factor in getting off the waitlist.

No one is going on the waitlist because they love the school. We over-accept to begin with and make offers to the people we really, really want. We hope we don't have to go to the waitlist and we know that many people we waitlist will have offers elsewhere and will drop us for the sure thing of an offer elsewhere.

 

[forsparta]

Rumor has it, LizzyM, that you are a disgruntled MD student in the Carribean who is looking to throw off the masses of SDN students to help you get a better residency position. True or False?


JK, thanks

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks so much for doing this LizzyM!

Last summer I completed an internship at a well-known hospital... however, the internship was categorized as a nursing internship. This allowed me to have a lot of clinical experience (I got to interact with patients, perform basic life support, and assist physicians). Would med schools look down upon the fact that it was a NURSING internship, even though I got a lot of good experiences from it?

Thank you!

unless you get a LOR that says Lindsayvarkula did a nursing internship, you really don't need to say it was a nursing internship. Call it volunteer, clinical and state that you were a volunteer and describe your role. Or say that you were considering a career in nursing or medicine and after this internship you are sure that medicine is the right fit for you.

 

[Medicinewoman85]

Lizzy M,

Which undergrad majors are looked at more favorably by the adcom? Are you tired of seeing the traditional Biology and Chemistry majors?

 

[robertch8]

One common question I've gotten at multiple interviews has been, "Say you don't get into medical school this year, what will you do?" If I've been accepted to medical school, how do I go about answering this question. I don't want to really talk about other schools and getting accepted there when I'm trying to focus on the school that I'm interviewing at, but I don't want to flat out lie either and just answer the question. Thanks again! It's very refreshing to hear an adcom's honest thoughts.

 

[DinoSaysRawr]

Does how many ECs you've actually been involved in matter vs. the longevity of having just a few?

Do the applicant's parent(s) occupations play a role in determining an interview invite?

How often do applicants from no-name state schools get accepted at your medical school?

Thanks for doing this LizzyM!

 

[LizzyM]

Lizzy M,

Which undergrad majors are looked at more favorably by the adcom? Are you tired of seeing the traditional Biology and Chemistry majors?

We see dozens of different majors. There are as many opinions about majors are there are adcom members.

Bottom line, major in something you like and can do well in. Don't fall into the trap of thinking that because you have to take chem & o-chem anyway that chem is a good major. Physical chemistry has been the gpa killer of many an applicant who took that approach. (Not just the grade in that course but the attention it takes away from other courses that term.)

 

[LizzyM]

One common question I've gotten at multiple interviews has been, "Say you don't get into medical school this year, what will you do?" If I've been accepted to medical school, how do I go about answering this question. I don't want to really talk about other schools and getting accepted there when I'm trying to focus on the school that I'm interviewing at, but I don't want to flat out lie either and just answer the question. Thanks again! It's very refreshing to hear an adcom's honest thoughts.

You can say, "I've been admitted to another school already but speaking hypothetically, if I had come up empty this time around I would have..... "

The question is meant to get at what you think the weaknesses are in your file, what you would be interested in doing in a year out, how badly you want to do medicine and what you would do as an alternative career.

 

[milski]

(on losing energy and flexibility)
No, that tends to happen at 37 or older.

That's a fairly precise number, does it come from specific timeline of events that you had in mind?

What are possible ways to mitigate concerns about that in the adcom? Will getting an undergrad degree be helpful in that respect?

 

[hiyaman]

What is your opinion about applicants addressing weaknesses in their apps without being questioned during their interview?

 

[LizzyM]

Does how many ECs you've actually been involved in matter vs. the longevity of having just a few?

Having less than 5 items on the list is going to look sketchy even if each of those is something you've done for several years. So aim for at least six items on your list including things that were long term and others that were just one summer or a brief activity (e.g. presenting poster)

Do the applicant's parent(s) occupations play a role in determining an interview invite?

Sometimes. "Distance traveled" can play a part and sometimes a consideration is made if the applicant's parents did not attend college, or did not graduate HS, etc. Likewise, an applicant whose parents are physicians might be able to get away with a little less shadowing in the experience section with the expectation that they've had some experience of what a life is medicine is all about from growing up with it.

How often do applicants from no-name state schools get accepted at your medical school?

Every year.

 

[LizzyM]

That's a fairly precise number, does it come from specific timeline of events that you had in mind?

What are possible ways to mitigate concerns about that in the adcom? Will getting an undergrad degree be helpful in that respect?

Sometimes I just pull a number out of my butt.

But a 37 y.o. applicant will be over 40 before finishing med school.

Isn't getting an undergrad degree expected of all applicants? I'm not sure what you are asking with that question.

 

[LizzyM]

What is your opinion about applicants addressing weaknesses in their apps without being questioned during their interview?

If you address weaknesses in your application, you might not get an interview. You might get an interview and be asked about your weaknesses or you might not be asked about your weaknesses.

Frankly, I think that weaknesses are like zits. Almost everyone has one at one time or another. You can call attention to it or you can do something to take attention away from it. The reader/interviewer can see it and might be curious about it and might mention it or might look to see if it is addressed in your LOR.

 

[DrSteven]

Thanks so much for doing this Lizzy!

My question is: Since studying abroad seems to be only beneficial in terms of possible discussion topics during an interview, does it matter where someone studies abroad? For instance, does studying abroad in an English Speaking country not come off as "interesting" or as "challenging" in comparison to studying abroad in countries where english is not the primary language?

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks so much for doing this Lizzy!

My question is: Since studying abroad seems to be only beneficial in terms of possible discussion topics during an interview, does it matter where someone studies abroad? For instance, does studying abroad in an English Speaking country not come off as "interesting" or as "challenging" in comparison to studying abroad in countries where english is not the primary language?

I always thought that studying abroad seems to be only beneficial in terms of living in a place where the drinking age is less than 21.

Don't do a study abroad program if you are doing it to have something to talk about at interview. Choose it if you are interested in studying culture, history, art, health policy, political science, literature, language, environmental science, etc "on the ground". Choose it if you want to be challenged to be more independent, more responsible for yourself, and challenged to live and study in a way that is different than the way you live and study in North America. Choose it because you are curious to learn more about the world outside of your experiences to date.

 

[Lunasly]

So, there is no one in Canada who needs help with math homework and physical education??

That said, doing some service for others while on vacation is admirable. It also gives you something to do which is nice if the alternative would be to sit around the house in Lebanon every day for a month.

People work to earn money to do things that are important to them. You aren't going to get brownie points for working for a month so that you an travel for a month... it is how most of the world operates. (Not everyone is lucky enough to have a daddy who finances everything although it is not uncommon to see in pre-med circles.)

I don't see any difference between volunteering a month at a time in Lebanon or doing the same sort of thing in a local school for 3 hrs/wk for a couple years (300 hrs total). It is very common to tutor or otherwise volunteer in a school and it does not make you unique.

All you need for the application is the name, title and email address of the person who is a "contact" with the organization. It would be, I think, exceptionally uncommon for anyone in med admissions to send an email to confirm this sort of activity.

Hello LizzyM,

I actually am employed by a government organization here in Canada where I tutor secondary students all across the province via an online tutoring system. I also volunteer with Big Brothers Big Sisters in-school mentoring program. So I have taken the time to find opportunities here, but I was just trying to stand out. It may a silly idea, but I actually take out loans to go to school as I can't afford it and so I had to make a decision to spend the money I earned on tuition or to volunteer internationally just so that I could look unique. I am wondering, now, if the latter was a bad idea. :\

Thanks,
Lunasly.

 

[hiyaman]

If you address weaknesses in your application, you might not get an interview. You might get an interview and be asked about your weaknesses or you might not be asked about your weaknesses.

Frankly, I think that weaknesses are like zits. Almost everyone has one at one time or another. You can call attention to it or you can do something to take attention away from it. The reader/interviewer can see it and might be curious about it and might mention it or might look to see if it is addressed in your LOR.

Lol sorry I didnt realize what I wrote was vague and confusing. But you answered my question. Thanks a ton LizzyM

 

[LizzyM]

Over 200 posts to this thread in a bit more than 24 hours!

Taking a break for the holidays... like Frosty the Snowman, I'll be back again some day (Monday).

 

[1TB4RKSB4CK]

How well does it look when a student that transfers from a CC with a kind of low GPA (3.2-3) and has a huge upward trend (4.0) semesters in a UG university?
In BCPM courses how does lower level math (int algebra and trig) factor in if the grades have been low but the rest (BCP) have been high? What else would be taken into account for that?
Also, does mentoring children of inmates look like a unique experience to you? I've been doing this for about a year know and feel very accomplished on helping children follow that right path. Can I hint Pediatrics on the interview too if discussing that EC?
Finally, does being raised by a single parent who works and makes less that 35k, yet still sends me to an private school (scholarships and Fin aid) have any affect on "disadvantaged" status?

Thank you!!!
Read through all your answers and was very informative!

 

[Bro Dude]

LizzyM,

while I am aware that there exist different viewpoints from school to school, could you nonetheless comment upon the efficacy of a pre-interview letter of interest to a particular MD program to which a secondary has been submitted in early summer, yet resulted in a several-months-long period of silence? Even if it's anecdotal evidence from several years' worth of SDN testimonials, I'll take it (I'm kinda new here).

Thanks so much!

 

[BirdIsTheWord]

Ms. LizzyM,

1) What is the percentage of URM (Namely African-Americans) that are accepted and/or interviewed at your school?

2) What are said interviewees stats?

3) What is your choice of undergarmet wear?

 

[circulus vitios]

Almost but not quite. The question will be raised: how did this applicant spend time outside of coursework? Having no answer to that question is not as good as having some answer plus the employment/shadowing/volunteering after graduation even if the extracurriculars while in college were not medically related (either because one is a career changer or had other interests such as music, journalism, art, politics, etc).

Thanks.

I ask because I have a solid GPA and an anticipated decent MCAT score, but my extra curriculars are poor: shadowing, volunteering, and 4+ years of part-time non-medical employment. I'm not 100% sure about medicine, so taking a few years off to work (non-medical) seems like the best course of action, as long as it doesn't hurt me.

 

[COMPLEXMIND]

Hi LizzyM, how do you and other adcoms view multiple undergrad transfers (2)? Should it be explained in the application? How and where? The student still finished with honors in 4yrs.

Thanks.

 

[NeilSaha]

Thank you! I understand you wouldn't tell your loved one to attend a caribbean, but I'm just curious. What makes it so bad?

Is it that they don't teach you enough to prepare you for that test you have to take to get a residency here? If so then what if a Ross university student scores higher than a harvard medschool student? The Ross student will get the residency spot over the Harvard student right? sorry for all the questions, I'm just confused.

 

[patel2]

hi lizzy m,

I was involved for several years with a white supremacist group and ultimately earned the title of "grand-wizard." Should I double-list this as an EC as well as for leadership on AMCAS?

 

[IlDestriero]

hi lizzy m,

I was involved for several years with a white supremacist group and ultimately earned the title of "grand-wizard." Should I double-list this as an EC as well as for leadership on AMCAS?

your screen name makes it all the more

 

[pmarank]

What extra-curricular activities do you recommend to a college student interested in medicine but but unsure whether to pursue being a physician, dentist, PA, etc.?

 

[45408]

No, I keep my work here a deep secret... I'm like Bruce Wayne.

Has SDN ever come up in conversation? Do you just ?

What are my chances? Would you accept an MD?

And I know the answer to the other don't ask questions

 

[Sephiroth]

Thank you! I understand you wouldn't tell your loved one to attend a caribbean, but I'm just curious. What makes it so bad?

Is it that they don't teach you enough to prepare you for that test you have to take to get a residency here? If so then what if a Ross university student scores higher than a harvard medschool student? The Ross student will get the residency spot over the Harvard student right? sorry for all the questions, I'm just confused.

I heard a med school dean (first hand) say that carribbean schools are glorified STEP exam prep courses. I've heard from some people that SGU isn't bad, but most of them lack sufficient clinical resources. So my guess that a Harvard student with a 235 would be chosen over a Ross student with a 250. Keep in mind the Harvard student would have access to many more things such as research opportunities as well that the Ross student wouldn't have. But emailing some residency programs might be helpful.

 

[IlDestriero]

If so then what if a Ross university student scores higher than a harvard medschool student? The Ross student will get the residency spot over the Harvard student right?

This made me LOL. Though, if the Ross student managed a very high USMLE score, maybe 240+, he/she certainly might be selected over a top 5 graduate with a much lower score, or poor clerkship evals. The problem, as noted above, is that the Harvard grad had access to research opportunities, etc that the Ross grad couldn't dream of. They also could have recommendations and/or faculty/alum connections to recognized leaders in the field they are interested in pursuing. The carib grad will not. Solid LORs from people you know are worth far more than a stellar LOR from someone you've never heard of at an anonymous hospital.
Residency/fellowship selection is very complex. It's not just about the numbers, and your personality alone can make or break you. The value of good Letters of Rec and killing the interview cannot be overstated. Fellowship and faculty decisions can come down to a couple of comments from the interviews.

 

[Knocked Up]

hi lizzy m,

I was involved for several years with a white supremacist group and ultimately earned the title of "grand-wizard." Should I double-list this as an EC as well as for leadership on AMCAS?

Kumar, is that you? Escape from Guantanamo Bay was like my fav more ever!!!

 

[LizzyM]

How well does it look when a student that transfers from a CC with a kind of low GPA (3.2-3) and has a huge upward trend (4.0) semesters in a UG university?

It looks better than maintaining a 3.2-3 gpa after the transfer.

In BCPM courses how does lower level math (int algebra and trig) factor in if the grades have been low but the rest (BCP) have been high?

It reduces the BCPM gpa.

What else would be taken into account for that?

Also, does mentoring children of inmates look like a unique experience to you?

After reviewing applications for 10 years there isn't much that is "unique" any more.

I've been doing this for about a year know and feel very accomplished on helping children follow that right path. Can I hint Pediatrics on the interview too if discussing that EC?

Be my guest. There is no law against mentioning an interest in a particular specialty. That said, what makes you think you want to spend time with sick and dying kids and their parents?

Finally, does being raised by a single parent who works and makes less that 35k, yet still sends me to an private school (scholarships and Fin aid) have any affect on "disadvantaged" status?

Mention it with a sense of gratitude in the paragraph where you describe why you think you were disadvantaged despite the good fortune of having a scholarship to a private school.

P.S. Learn the difference between affect and effect. You'll thank me later.

 

[LizzyM]

LizzyM,

while I am aware that there exist different viewpoints from school to school, could you nonetheless comment upon the efficacy of a pre-interview letter of interest to a particular MD program to which a secondary has been submitted in early summer, yet resulted in a several-months-long period of silence? Even if it's anecdotal evidence from several years' worth of SDN testimonials, I'll take it (I'm kinda new here).

Thanks so much!

This year, for the first time, these letters appear in the applicant's electronic file. I've seen one or two and in at least one case it tilted me toward recommending that an interview be offered.

On the other hand, you might have been reviewed months ago but the rejection letter is being held until the end of the season.

It can't hurt to write.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi LizzyM, how do you and other adcoms view multiple undergrad transfers (2)? Should it be explained in the application? How and where? The student still finished with honors in 4yrs.

Thanks.

Like this --> or or

It makes it seem as if you can't make up your mind or you have some issues. There might be some concern that you don't make good decisions and thus switch schools. On the other hand, we do know of people who go somewhere, hate it, come home & take classes locally for a term or two and then transfer to a school that is a better fit. We know it happens (I know 2 people who took that path) and it is usually no big deal. I wouldn't feel it needs to be addressed in the AMCAS application but if it fits with one of the secondary prompts or if you are asked in an interview, you might address it.

 

[LizzyM]

But if you break now you might not make 10k posts before the new year . Happy holidays LizzyM and everyone else!

It's never been about the post count but you have dragged me out of retirement, for at least an hour or two.

 

[LizzyM]

This made me LOL. Though, if the Ross student managed a very high USMLE score, maybe 240+, he/she certainly might be selected over a top 5 graduate with a much lower score, or poor clerkship evals. The problem, as noted above, is that the Harvard grad had access to research opportunities, etc that the Ross grad couldn't dream of. They also could have recommendations and/or faculty/alum connections to recognized leaders in the field they are interested in pursuing. The carib grad will not. Solid LORs from people you know are worth far more than a stellar LOR from someone you've never heard of at an anonymous hospital.
Residency/fellowship selection is very complex. It's not just about the numbers, and your personality alone can make or break you. The value of good Letters of Rec and killing the interview cannot be overstated. Fellowship and faculty decisions can come down to a couple of comments from the interviews.

Thank you. I will also point out that according to US News, >94% of US med school grads match compared with 50% of Caribbean grads (and that's without taking into account the high drop-out/flunk-out rate at the Caribbean schools). If you look at the off-shore option from the perspective of "what are my chances of becoming a licensed physician?", you will realize that it is about the same as (or worse than) applying through AMCAS. The difference is that in the US the bar is set high for admission and low for residency whereas off-shore the bar is set low for admission and high for residency. The other difference is that with AMCAS you are out a few thousand bucks -- with an off-shore school you are out hundreds of thousands.

 

[LizzyM]

What extra-curricular activities do you recommend to a college student interested in medicine but but unsure whether to pursue being a physician, dentist, PA, etc.?

Shadow, volunteer and/or work with professionals in each of those fields.

Check out the section of the pre-dental exam that is very different from the MCAT (I think it tests ability to rotate figures in your mind and visualize how they look from a different perspective as well as eye-hand coordination or manual dexterity). Whether or not you can do well could determine whether dental school will be an option for you.

 

[no beans]

Thanks again from one other poster, LizzyM!

I am co-coordinator of a completely student planned, organized and funded summer camp for kids. It takes up 10-15 hours per week year-round even before the one-week camp. I've also been fundraising coordinator (last year), and had many responsibilities over the last 3 years (recruiting campers and counselors, interviewing, public relations, writing grants, etc). There are approx. 40 college students (counselors) that work this camp. Would it be best to use a non-medical community service slot for this activity or a leadership slot? Thanks again.

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks again from one other poster, LizzyM!

I am co-coordinator of a completely student planned, organized and funded summer camp for kids. It takes up 10-15 hours per week year-round even before the one-week camp. I've also been fundraising coordinator (last year), and had many responsibilities over the last 3 years (recruiting campers and counselors, interviewing, public relations, writing grants, etc). There are approx. 40 college students (counselors) that work this camp. Would it be best to use a non-medical community service slot for this activity or a leadership slot? Thanks again.

Leadership would be an appropriate label for this activity, particularly if you have at least one other item labeled "volunteer".

 

[no beans]

Thank-you! Yes, I do have lots of volunteer-medical, but much shorter-in-duration (summer) other non-medical volunteer activities.

 

[no beans]

One last question if I may:

In high school I was a 3-year varsity player at a sport at the most competitive level, and was selected as co-captain senior year (work ethic and leadership skills), and at a school other than my own (my school didn't have varsity sports). I have only played intramurals in college (two teams- one coed), every semester. As a freshman I also coached and instructed underprivileged kids in this sport. Can I use this as a slot on its own under hobbies, mentioning all these things, or should I just list it as one of the hobbies in the hobbies section and forget the high school gig? This sport has been one of my passions since I was six. Thanks again.

 

[LizzyM]

One last question if I may:

In high school I was a 3-year varsity player at a sport at the most competitive level, and was selected as co-captain senior year (work ethic and leadership skills), and at a school other than my own (my school didn't have varsity sports). I have only played intramurals in college (two teams- one coed), every semester. As a freshman I also coached and instructed underprivileged kids in this sport. Can I use this as a slot on its own under hobbies, mentioning all these things, or should I just list it as one of the hobbies in the hobbies section and forget the high school gig? This sport has been one of my passions since I was six. Thanks again.

One way I've seen this done is to list the activity as the name of the sport and list your role as "player, coach". Your contact is no big deal, maybe a coach or captain of your most recent team. Then in the description, say that you played on the xyz HS varsity team and served as co-captain in 20__. Then go on to say that you played intramural 20__-20__ and coached such&such team.

As for the label... hobby or athletics or whatever seems to fit; I don't remember the exact categories.

 

[sliceofbread136]

I've heard how you write your descriptions of your activities can make a significant difference in your application. Do you have any advice on activity descriptions?

 

[Lindsayvarkula]

Can I just say that seeing LizzyM so frequently on SDN has tricked my mind into thinking Jane Lynch is LizzyM? Everytime I see that commercial for the Nook tablet i'm like, "IT'S LIZZYM OMG"... but then reality hits.. and I get sad.

 

[LizzyM]

Can I just say that seeing LizzyM so frequently on SDN has tricked my mind into thinking Jane Lynch is LizzyM? Everytime I see that commercial for the Nook tablet i'm like, "IT'S LIZZYM OMG"... but then reality hits.. and I get sad.

Me, too! I wish I were getting those residual checks.

 

[LizzyM]

I've heard how you write your descriptions of your activities can make a significant difference in your application. Do you have any advice on activity descriptions?

Things changed this year such that you can write "more" about 3 significant experiences. It may be my imagination but it seems like the other items are longer than they used to be 10 yrs ago. I used to espouse very brief bullet points but my fellow adcom members seem to prefer a little more meat on the bones. Wait until May and pick the brains of people who have been accepted. May is about the time that people start working on their AMCAS applications for the following yr.

 

[SellerAl]

Just read this whole thing. Thanks a lot lizzy.

 

[SellerAl]

Can I just say that seeing LizzyM so frequently on SDN has tricked my mind into thinking Jane Lynch is LizzyM? Everytime I see that commercial for the Nook tablet i'm like, "IT'S LIZZYM OMG"... but then reality hits.. and I get sad.

Hahha me too

 

[alwaysdreambig]

Hey LizzyM!

You have a lot of questions and I don't want to make you answer a question I'm sure you've heard 1000 times so I'll make it quick. If a student at a top 30 university has a legitimate reason for having a lower GPA freshman year (3.3-3.4 and the reason involves some personal circumstances), but then sophomore year did much better (3.9 including an A in o-chem both semesters), does this make the admissions committee view sophomore year and later GPAs as more important, or is there still a heavy emphasis on freshman year.

Also, freshman year included gen chem and bio - soph year included o-chem and physics.