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Started by LizzyM
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It doesn't mean anything in particular.
Hi. Thanks so much for taking your time to answer questions.
I am curious to what extent clinical experience matter for the application process. For the most part most clinical experiences at a local hospital would consist of sitting around without too much patient contact.
I did do ~150 hours of clinical work + some shadowing but I did not have a chance to participate with some of the more "hands on" clinical experiences in free clinics or special programs because I did not have the means to attend.
Instead I really focused my efforts in biomedical research. (very passionate since high school)
To what extent will I have to qualify my relative low clinical hours? Would saying that I made use of my time in a way that I felt would make the most impact (i.e. research) because there will be extensive clinical exposure once I am in med school come off sounding too ignorant of the clinical side?
I am curious to what extent clinical experience matter for the application process. For the most part most clinical experiences at a local hospital would consist of sitting around without too much patient contact.
I did do ~150 hours of clinical work + some shadowing but I did not have a chance to participate with some of the more "hands on" clinical experiences in free clinics or special programs because I did not have the means to attend.
Instead I really focused my efforts in biomedical research. (very passionate since high school)
To what extent will I have to qualify my relative low clinical hours? Would saying that I made use of my time in a way that I felt would make the most impact (i.e. research) because there will be extensive clinical exposure once I am in med school come off sounding too ignorant of the clinical side?
yes, it's better (best) not to have any C's.
If your semester gpa is never less than 3.7, you're fine.... maybe more than fine.
I have no idea. That's handled by the Dean's office, not the adcom.
Some schools make a mention that an applicant has no IAs in the committee letter; as for anything else, again it is in the Dean's hands.
That you have a well formed and well informed opinion and are capable of expressing it.
D
deleted393595
Do you know how awesome you are? 😎
I don't know for sure because it is exceptionally rare to see an applicant who had a DWI 10 years prior to applying....
If I were asked to weigh in, I would vote to permit the application to go forward for review and possible interview.
It is not a deal breaker but it is nice to apply at the end of junior year with at least one thing that you've been engaged in for 3 yrs or more even if it is just a hobby or intramural sports, performing arts, etc.
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Well, I don't believe I said that one has no chance of admission if there are a few Cs on a transcript... that said, yes, a holistic approach is made. If there were extenuating circumstances, please explain. That can be taken into account.
Just as "What to Expect When You're Expecting" talks about the "best odds" for having a healthy baby, there are "best odds" for getting into medical school. That doesn't mean that someone who has the application equivalent of a chain-smoking, fried food eating mommy doesn't stand a chance at being admitted somewhere.... and in some cases, somewhere very good.
Someone reads the whole file. Many (depending on cut points -- that I don't really know) are reviewed a second and third time by other reviewers. Each reader makes written notes and recommendation to review or not. The Dean uses that information to decide who gets an interview invite.
A large group of people review each application post-interview, write comments and later get together to discuss the applications and make recommendations; here disagreements are hashed out. There is a final step where another group review each application and all the commentaries and recommendations make a decision.
What made you want to be a doctor? How did you test this interest? What do you think is the most challenging thing you'll face as a physician? Tell me about a memorable situation you recall from your clinical experience. Through shadowing, employment or volunteerism, you should have enough experience to answer those questions. If you don't have enough experience, you need to get some, even if it means taking an extra year to work full time in a clinical setting.
It is very common. Keep in mind that you are not applying for admission to the hospital. You should have some experience as a provider of care or services, rather than only a recipient.
1. How stringent are the course requirements? If an applicant completes pre-reqs or an undergraduate degree in a foreign school (eg. Oxford or Cambridge) can these typically be substituted?
2. Would being 30 years old, be old enough to cause an adcom to question an applicants "energy and flexibility?"
3. How much does diversity select against students who are otherwise qualified? Interviewing at some schools, we've been told that our diversity within a class (ie. how much we add to class diversity) is important. In a way it feels as if we're competing for spots only against other people of our race, sexuality, religion that fulfill that particular class niche.
4. Is there a growing trend to waitlist more candidates to prevent overaccepting or to ensure that applicants really are particularly interested through a later letter of interest?
2. Would being 30 years old, be old enough to cause an adcom to question an applicants "energy and flexibility?"
3. How much does diversity select against students who are otherwise qualified? Interviewing at some schools, we've been told that our diversity within a class (ie. how much we add to class diversity) is important. In a way it feels as if we're competing for spots only against other people of our race, sexuality, religion that fulfill that particular class niche.
4. Is there a growing trend to waitlist more candidates to prevent overaccepting or to ensure that applicants really are particularly interested through a later letter of interest?
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Thank you for this wonderful opportunity. I have a few questions if you don't mind.
1) How much volunteering, shadowing, and research do top students tend to have, or are encouraged to have? (range wise, objectively speaking)
2) How much influence does an Ivy League undergrad school have in consideration of the overall application? For example, all other things equal, a 3.7 GPA at an Ivy versus a 4.0 at a non-Ivy
3) How much weight is given to publishing research versus just participating it it? Do admissions committee's care a great deal?
4) How much consideration is given to the rigors of one's undergrad courses when applying to top schools? For example, taking classes like neurobiology, anatomy & physiology and having a competitive GPA versus a higher GPA with traditional pre-med course load
and finally,
5) How do schools typically approach non-traditional applications; is the process any different and do they give it any unique consideration?
Thank you so much!
1) How much volunteering, shadowing, and research do top students tend to have, or are encouraged to have? (range wise, objectively speaking)
2) How much influence does an Ivy League undergrad school have in consideration of the overall application? For example, all other things equal, a 3.7 GPA at an Ivy versus a 4.0 at a non-Ivy
3) How much weight is given to publishing research versus just participating it it? Do admissions committee's care a great deal?
4) How much consideration is given to the rigors of one's undergrad courses when applying to top schools? For example, taking classes like neurobiology, anatomy & physiology and having a competitive GPA versus a higher GPA with traditional pre-med course load
and finally,
5) How do schools typically approach non-traditional applications; is the process any different and do they give it any unique consideration?
Thank you so much!
Noted, thank you. If it were to eventually be sealed or expunged, would I still put it in my application? I have no other criminal record, but that mistake I made is plaguing me when it comes to this. I really want to put my heart and soul into achieving med school admittance, but it would break my heart if this was the weighing factor in a rejection.
I think you may have my missed my question from earlier. Thank you again!
I just finished my first semester of college and over break, I've been volunteering at a clinic. 90% of the time, all they make me do is file insurance papers and lead patients to their doctors. They said they wont let volunteers help out more than that until I've been there a couple of months.
Can I even put that I've been volunteering at a clinic on my resume for this filing/leading work or should I only put the time I get to be with patients later on.
Thanks. 🙂
Can I even put that I've been volunteering at a clinic on my resume for this filing/leading work or should I only put the time I get to be with patients later on.
Thanks. 🙂
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What is the lowest MCAT (subsections too please?) and GPA (I think you told me a 3.03 a while back?) that you have recommended for interview. Did they end up getting in (again I think you told me two with low GPAs in the past, but any with MCATs?).
Oh, and thanks for doing this. I know me and a bunch of other people always pester the heck out of you, and now its all in one place.
Oh, and thanks for doing this. I know me and a bunch of other people always pester the heck out of you, and now its all in one place.
How is being married young and having a family viewed? (23 and married w/2 kids, working full time thru school to support family). Also, is a research project that takes a semester to complete for a class (ie developmental biology) counted towards research or is it purely on-your-own-time research that counts? Thanks!
That's a question to ask a lawyer.
How will you balance your responsibilites to school and family? Do you have a support network in the area? Those are the questions that will need satisfactory answers... usually during the interview.
If it is really research (new knowledge, hypothesis driven), then yes, it counts even if you receive academic credit for it.
I've been personally responsible for over 5,000 applications over the past 10 years so it is hard for me to remember specific records... Far better to get a copy of the 2010-2011 MSAR (last year's with the blue cover -- not this year's with the green cover) and look specifically at the bottom 10% of students at each school you are considering.
First of, thank you for your time!
My personal life accounted much for my lack of excellence throughout my freshman and 1st semester of my sophomore year. Hopefully, I will raise my GPA next semester and the following years. My question is this: Will my deficient academic performance affect me during my application period? My goal is to attend a school that will provide with me the best primary care education. What do you recommend I should do to even stand a chance?
My personal life accounted much for my lack of excellence throughout my freshman and 1st semester of my sophomore year. Hopefully, I will raise my GPA next semester and the following years. My question is this: Will my deficient academic performance affect me during my application period? My goal is to attend a school that will provide with me the best primary care education. What do you recommend I should do to even stand a chance?
This is hard to say ... you need to consider what the school offers (academics, extracurriculars, net cost after merit & need based grants, location as it relates to your support network) and whether it is a good fit for you. Tranferring is almost unheard of so a bad fit can't be fixed after a semester or a year as many do in college.
Yes.
Improve your academic performance. Prepare for the MCAT including practice tests. Do not take the MCAT until you are very well prepared. Do not apply as a rising senior unless your application is the best it can be.
Take the MCAT once, apply just once.
My committee is encouraged to average the scores as evidence has shown that this is the most accurate way to deal with multiple scores.
Thanks for everything you do on this forum. Your advice is second to none really.
How strongly does good SMP performance (3.7 or greater) influence your choices in applicants? Does strong gpa in SMPs really make up for low undergrad gpas (3.1 to 3.3)?
How strongly does good SMP performance (3.7 or greater) influence your choices in applicants? Does strong gpa in SMPs really make up for low undergrad gpas (3.1 to 3.3)?
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I hoped to perhaps be more explicit on this. If an applicant perhaps had a 3.4 average their first three semesters (because of poor adjustment to college) and then maintained 3.9+ for every semester afterwards (5 semesters), how will this be handled? I know it will affect them, but is this going to be a major handicap compared to someone else with the same cumulative average?
Is social science research looked down upon or considered less favorably than research in the natural/physical sciences? What if the social science research is medically related (Diabetes)?
Thanks 😀
My friend is choosing between devoting time to neurobio research at his Ivy's med school or cog sci research. He is far more interested in the latter; his school's cognitive science program is tip-top; and the cog science lab he's interested in is far more productive publication-wise than the neurobio lab (and MUCH more receptive to independent undergraduate research). However, he feels that med schools look more favorably on medically-relevant research.
I have been telling him to choose the cognitive science lab, but as a premed myself, I don't want to give bad advice. Any thoughts? Is there any preference? What about for MD/PhDs?
I have been telling him to choose the cognitive science lab, but as a premed myself, I don't want to give bad advice. Any thoughts? Is there any preference? What about for MD/PhDs?
Hi Lizzy, Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions.
You say that poor academic performance during your freshman year can affect you during the application cycle. I have three years before I intend to apply. I just recently went back to school and I am more mature and focused on raising my GPA and preparing for the MCAT. What can I do to stand out as a serious applicant for medical school? I've learned from my mistakes and I am now very serious about my academic work.
You say that poor academic performance during your freshman year can affect you during the application cycle. I have three years before I intend to apply. I just recently went back to school and I am more mature and focused on raising my GPA and preparing for the MCAT. What can I do to stand out as a serious applicant for medical school? I've learned from my mistakes and I am now very serious about my academic work.
If you are in that boat, make inquiries directly to the schools you are considering.
No, that tends to happen at 37 or older.
You may know that I love metaphors. Diversity is like helping yourself from a big salad bowl. You know that if you scoop up a big spoonful, you are likely to get a little of everything just by luck. If there aren't many cherry tomatoes in the bowl and you want to be sure to get a few, you might make a point of scooping a few of those in addition to whatever you got in your first spoonful.
It's not like we say, "we need six musicians, thirteen impoverished first generation Americans, etc."
Overaccepting is a recurrent nightmare for the Dean. There are many different strategies for coming up with the best possible class. It wouldn't surprise me if some schools improve their yield by making applicants beg for admission.
This question is best addressed to the school(s) you are considering for a SMP. I can count on one hand the number of applicants with SMPs I've seen in the past 5 years; those applicants just don't apply to our school.
Do well in your classes and on the MCAT. Be involved in campus and/or community activities, too.
My advice is "follow your bliss". It doesn't matter to adcoms what your research is in.
For MD/PhD programs, it is a different story. The school is going to be concerned that you have some skills that could be of value in one or more of their labs and your interests are either tightly aligned with those of one or more PIs at the school OR you are so curious and flexible that you are very interested in many things and are ready to try many labs to find a good fit.
Huge thanks for being a part of SDN and your anonymous mentoring. Here's my question for you: What was your motivation (and continued motivation) to be so involved in these forums?
An upward trend will be noted. If I were looking at the applicaition, I'd specifically look at the entire transcript to see what the grades are in the pre-reqs and where the poorest performance was (which courses). I'd also look at the course load for those years, and I'd read the LORs to see if any issues are addressed there.
This depends on the reader. That's part of what can make this a crapshoot. On the other hand, if it is something you love, go for it. Enjoying your work and being enthusiastic about it when you interview is very important.
Is your avatar a picture of you?
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I found SDN when I wanted some ideas for questions to ask when conducting interviews. I discovered the forums and felt dismayed by some of the misinformation and angst I saw. I started responding to questions, got to know some of the posters (that first group are in residency now!) and got hooked.
It corresponded to my kids reaching their early teens and not needing my advice themselves 😉 and so I sublimated my desire to give advice by being involved here on the boards. 😀
Over the years, I think it has helped me understand what applicants go through and what it is like to be on the other side and that has made me a better advisor to my grad students who want to go on to med school.
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😆
Yes, I am also an Emmy-awards host and comedic actress. You can see me on Fox TV on Tuesdays, 8 pm, 7 Central.
Another HUGE thanks for doing this LizzyM.
Regarding post-interview decisions: are applicants reviewed post-interview in the order in which they were interviewed, or does it sometimes happen that one applicant who interviewed earlier than another doesn't hear back until later?
For example, say student A was interviewed and then accepted after 4 weeks, while student B has been waiting 6 weeks and still hasn't heard anything. Do you have any insight on why this might occur? Is it more likely that student B has weaker credentials, or that the interviewer for student B turned in his/her evaluation late, or both, etc.?
Regarding post-interview decisions: are applicants reviewed post-interview in the order in which they were interviewed, or does it sometimes happen that one applicant who interviewed earlier than another doesn't hear back until later?
For example, say student A was interviewed and then accepted after 4 weeks, while student B has been waiting 6 weeks and still hasn't heard anything. Do you have any insight on why this might occur? Is it more likely that student B has weaker credentials, or that the interviewer for student B turned in his/her evaluation late, or both, etc.?
I am working full time at the moment and having a hard time looking for a way to improve my application for next year. Do you have any suggestion? I am volunteering more but consider the hours I already have I don't know if it's going to help next year. Thank you so much.
Here is my app
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=11016583#post11016583
Here is my app
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=11016583#post11016583
Those darn interviewers. Some of them don't write and submit their reports immediately. I've seen it happen many times. Most interviewers are volunteers and although you can beg and admonish them to do things promptly, some are busy with patient care, etc, such that they don't get to their reports as soon as we might hope.
Thanks LizzyM for starting this thread!
You answered a question about letters of interest and update letters. My question is will a "letter of intent" carrry any more weight than a letter of interest? My thought is not really since it is not binding, but I wondered what adcoms think when they receive one.
You answered a question about letters of interest and update letters. My question is will a "letter of intent" carrry any more weight than a letter of interest? My thought is not really since it is not binding, but I wondered what adcoms think when they receive one.
Sorry, I'm not doing "what are my chances, etc."
Hi LizzyM,
As many other posters here have already said, thank you again for answering our questions.
I just have one question for now.
I'm in a social fraternity and have held three roles so far. I serve as the head of scholarship for my chapter, a liaison between a very large student group on campus and greek life, and the representative in our university's IFC.
Unfortunately there has always been (and probably will always be) the "animal house" stereotype for "frat guys" and I am a little afraid this might hurt me in the application cycle if I list any of these on my application.
I would hope that being in a social fraternity would not be an instant red flag on an application, but do you know if adcoms look unfavorably on involvement in Greek life?
Thank you
As many other posters here have already said, thank you again for answering our questions.
I just have one question for now.
I'm in a social fraternity and have held three roles so far. I serve as the head of scholarship for my chapter, a liaison between a very large student group on campus and greek life, and the representative in our university's IFC.
Unfortunately there has always been (and probably will always be) the "animal house" stereotype for "frat guys" and I am a little afraid this might hurt me in the application cycle if I list any of these on my application.
I would hope that being in a social fraternity would not be an instant red flag on an application, but do you know if adcoms look unfavorably on involvement in Greek life?
Thank you
Those are up to the Dean, not the adcom but for the most part, I thnk that the Dean thinks that "letters of intent" are non-binding bull****.
Showing interest is good though, particularly in the unlikely event that an opening comes along in July/Aug.
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