asking out married resident

[CaliMSIII]

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long time lurker here, but i needed to post to settle an argument...

I just finished my surgery rotation and there was this one resident that i got along with really well, who really encouraged me to think about going into surgery (i hadn't really even considered it until i started the rotation). anyway, now i'm trying to get some more info to try to figure out if surgery would be a good fit, but most of the surgeons i talk to give really vague answers, or don't really know my personality well enough to give me blunt answers. This resident was a really straight forward guy, so I figured I could call him up and get some coffee and he would give me the low down. I mentioned this to my classmate who immediately vetoed my plan due to:

1) when i was on his service we definitely did some "harmless" flirting but
2) he's married! Although he never actually mentioned his wife to me, he clearly wore a ring.

Anyway, my classmate's opinion is that if I call him out of the blue, then he'll think I'm inappropriately hitting on him. I think she's being uptight and it's all pretty innocent (can't men and women be friends anymore??). Or is it inappropriate regardless for residents to socialize with med students?

Any opinions?

 

[vietcongs]

i agree with your friend. it's not inappropriate for med students to socialize with residents. however, for you to call a married man and ask him out for coffee...is definitely off limits. i would find that very inappropriate if i were his wife. you might want to put yourself in her shoes and think about the consequences of a "harmless" outing with her husband.

 

[DHMO]

i agree with your friend. it's not inappropriate for med students to socialize with residents. however, for you to call a married man and ask him out for coffee...is definitely off limits. i would find that very inappropriate if i were his wife. you might want to put yourself in her shoes and think about the consequences of a "harmless" outing with her husband.

I agree. But I think it's fine to meet with him to discuss your career if you keep it in a professional setting. See if you can set up a meeting with him at the hospital.

 

[Smurfette]

Try "accidentally" running into him in the hospital and ask him then for advice on pursuing surgery...he'll probably tell you to page/email him to set up a time or give you a time to meet with him. Calling him is rather stalker-esque. If a student called me, I'd be a little uncomfortable about it.

 

[bigfrank]

Cali, you're a class act, aren't you???

 

[Blade28]

I agree - don't call him at home (did he give you his home number, or cell number?). Email is more professional, ask if you could set up a time to meet, maybe at lunch in the hospital or when he's not busy on rounds or in the OR.

 

[CaliMSIII]

Cali, you're a class act, aren't you???

Yeah, apparently i'm a big homewrecker! 😉 I'm glad I posted because I didn't think it was that inappropriate. i figured that since our grades are in, it wouldn't be misconstrued as brown nosing. maybe since i'm a little older than the average med student, i don't really see the residents as that much different than a classmate. also, my SO goes out to dinner and drinks with his female co-workers all the time - I've never thought twice about it. and i was just thinking about asking this resident to get some coffee! but i certainly wouldn't want anyone to feel awkward, so i'll try to get hold of his email address (i have his cell/pager numbers). Since i'm not on surgery anymore, it would be kind of stalker-esque to just "bump" into him (i'm not at the same hospital). Would it be inappropriate for me to ask a friend who is on surgery now to get his email address for me? (i need to ask due to my apparent complete lack of social grace).

Thanks for the input!

 

[Law2Doc]

Yeah, apparently i'm a big homewrecker! 😉 I'm glad I posted because I didn't think it was that inappropriate. i figured that since our grades are in, it wouldn't be misconstrued as brown nosing. maybe since i'm a little older than the average med student, i don't really see the residents as that much different than a classmate. also, my SO goes out to dinner and drinks with his female co-workers all the time - I've never thought twice about it. and i was just thinking about asking this resident to get some coffee! but i certainly wouldn't want anyone to feel awkward, so i'll try to get hold of his email address (i have his cell/pager numbers). Since i'm not on surgery anymore, it would be kind of stalker-esque to just "bump" into him (i'm not at the same hospital). Would it be inappropriate for me to ask a friend who is on surgery now to get his email address for me? (i need to ask due to my apparent complete lack of social grace).

Thanks for the input!

Well, if you already have a SO, then why couldn't you do a couples get together coffee thing? Doesn't that eliminate the concerns of infidelity while giving you the opportunity to pick his brain?

 

[Mike59]

I think people are making too big a deal about this...Try to get ahold of him during business hours (at work) and just explain why you want to meet with him. It's really up to him whether the meeting takes place in the hospital or off grounds depending on his comfort level, availability and whatever arrangements he has with his wife. I would try to keep it at work but either way it's not a huge thing...

I can't see why a spouse/SO should make a big deal about it if it's a one time meeting for academic purposes... 😎

Regarding a comment in your original post, I don't believe men and women can be "friends" (IMHO) if they are engaged/deeply tied with someone else...They can be "work acquaintances, fellow students etc" in those roles.... Coming from my XY chromosomes, I can tell you that I don't typically take females out 'socially' unless I plan on turning up the heat later on if ya know what I mean.... 😱

 

[CaliMSIII]

Regarding a comment in your original post, I don't believe men and women can be "friends" (IMHO) if they are engaged/deeply tied with someone else...They can be "work acquaintances, fellow students etc" in those roles.... Coming from my XY chromosomes, I can tell you that I don't typically take females out 'socially' unless I plan on turning up the heat later on if ya know what I mean.... 😱

Interesting - see, I was thinking the exact opposite - if we are both in committed relationships, then it's easier to be friends because we clearly aren't looking to get in each others pants. goes to show what i know 🙁

 

[paramed2premed]

Interesting - see, I was thinking the exact opposite - if we are both in committed relationships, then it's easier to be friends because we clearly aren't looking to get in each others pants. goes to show what i know 🙁

No offense to anyone, but I take advice from SDN posters with a PILE of salt when it regards boards, wards, or interview attire. Now, concerning relationship advice, I would have to take way more than my RDA of sodium!! 😉

 

[toofache32]

Well, if you already have a SO, then why couldn't you do a couples get together coffee thing? Doesn't that eliminate the concerns of infidelity while giving you the opportunity to pick his brain?

Yeah! A Foursome! Woooohoooo!

 

[paramed2premed]

Yeah! A Foursome! Woooohoooo!

I rest my case.

 

[lvspro]

Hello
I think you should just bang'em, and get it over with. In fact, I second the foursome thing, if you need a fifth lemme know.

Really, it's just coffee people. In fact, if you don't wanna drop trou and do the naked boogie, then invite him and his wife to meet you and your husband for "some dinner, maybe some sex.... you know, see what happens."

Sorry about that last line, I couldn't resist quoting the whammee dude from the anchorman. But really, a couples outing would be cool. It'll give you the chance to introduce your SO to coworkers, as well as get some information about your career decisions.

 

[Whisker Barrel Cortex]

I don't see anything wrong with getting coffee to discuss career plans. If you started hanging out all the time, it may be an issue, but a friendly and somewhat professional lunch with someone whose opinion and advice you respect should be no problem, in my opinion.

 

[toofache32]

also, my SO goes out to dinner and drinks with his female co-workers all the time - I've never thought twice about it.

"Drinks", huh? Is that what they call it these days?

 

[Giving My .02]

There are a lot of flirts, but that doesn't mean they are interested. He could just be being nice, and he acts like that around a lot of other girls too. I would wait a couple of weeks to make sure if you are interested in surgery, or if you are just interested in him. If you are truly interested in surgery, email him and ask for advice, etc. Don't set up the coffee thing, but if he suggests meeting him at the hospital to talk it over, that would be cool, just nothing after hours away from work in my opinion.

 

[CaliMSIII]

Sorry about that last line, I couldn't resist quoting the whammee dude from the anchorman. But really, a couples outing would be cool. It'll give you the chance to introduce your SO to coworkers, as well as get some information about your career decisions.

I think this would be great too - the only problem is that my boyfriend is living in a different state right now. he'll be visiting in a few weeks, but we generally like to spend time alone when we have the opportunity. but i'm sure he'd enjoy meeting some of the residents i've been talking about, so maybe that is the best option (even if it sounds a little like bringing chaperones 😉 ).

foursome, eh? i don't think my ADD is developped enough to be able to deal with all those parts 😱

 

[TruTrooper]

long time lurker here, but i needed to post to settle an argument...

I just finished my surgery rotation and there was this one resident that i got along with really well, who really encouraged me to think about going into surgery (i hadn't really even considered it until i started the rotation). anyway, now i'm trying to get some more info to try to figure out if surgery would be a good fit, but most of the surgeons i talk to give really vague answers, or don't really know my personality well enough to give me blunt answers. This resident was a really straight forward guy, so I figured I could call him up and get some coffee and he would give me the low down. I mentioned this to my classmate who immediately vetoed my plan due to:

1) when i was on his service we definitely did some "harmless" flirting but
2) he's married! Although he never actually mentioned his wife to me, he clearly wore a ring.

Anyway, my classmate's opinion is that if I call him out of the blue, then he'll think I'm inappropriately hitting on him. I think she's being uptight and it's all pretty innocent (can't men and women be friends anymore??). Or is it inappropriate regardless for residents to socialize with med students?

Any opinions?

C'mon, would you have mentioned the fact that he "he never actually mentioned his wife to me" if there wasn't more to it than some resident to student counseling set-up? We all know that the "coffee date" is a preliminary to the movie/dinner date followed by the banging. How many guys do you ask out for cofffe that you are unattracted to? It really sounds like you are just looking to have some cream added to your coffee. Let the man be faithfully married.

 

[roja]

As a resident and a wife, I can say, there is a lot of melodramatic overreacting.

Call/page/run into during business hours. Tell him you are seriously thinking about surgery and is he willing to get together in the next week or two to talk about it. Much of the appropriateness is going to be your demeanor. If you act in a friendly, professional manner, then there is nothing unprofessional or inappropriate.

If his wife freaks out, then that is an indication of a problem in THIER marraige and not your actions.

Be friendly and professional. There is nothing wrong with what you are asking.

 

[p53]

long time lurker here, but i needed to post to settle an argument...

I just finished my surgery rotation and there was this one resident that i got along with really well, who really encouraged me to think about going into surgery (i hadn't really even considered it until i started the rotation). anyway, now i'm trying to get some more info to try to figure out if surgery would be a good fit, but most of the surgeons i talk to give really vague answers, or don't really know my personality well enough to give me blunt answers. This resident was a really straight forward guy, so I figured I could call him up and get some coffee and he would give me the low down. I mentioned this to my classmate who immediately vetoed my plan due to:

1) when i was on his service we definitely did some "harmless" flirting but
2) he's married! Although he never actually mentioned his wife to me, he clearly wore a ring.

Anyway, my classmate's opinion is that if I call him out of the blue, then he'll think I'm inappropriately hitting on him. I think she's being uptight and it's all pretty innocent (can't men and women be friends anymore??). Or is it inappropriate regardless for residents to socialize with med students?

Any opinions?

Since you are asking for opinions. I'll give you mine. If your agenda was pure, your tactic of asking a resident for more information about surgery is a no brainer. Very innocent. For that situation, I say page him.

However, in your situation, you clearly have sinister intent. Why else would you title this thread "asking out married resident". Anyone that has any clue about social nomenclature knows that "asking out someone" means you are interested in dating this person. I find it humorous that you are seeking some sort of "permission" to call him. You feel guilty about this situation because you are not being completely forthright. The fact of the matter is that you are clearly attracted this person, and are using your interest in "surgery" as an opening.

I say it like it is, and YOU KNOW I AM RIGHT. I can sense you want to know if he is attracted to you too. Your motive is clear, baby.

 

[p53]

C'mon, would you have mentioned the fact that he "he never actually mentioned his wife to me" if there wasn't more to it than some resident to student counseling set-up? We all know that the "coffee date" is a preliminary to the movie/dinner date followed by the banging. How many guys do you ask out for cofffe that you are unattracted to? It really sounds like you are just looking to have some cream added to your coffee. Let the man be faithfully married.

Bravo!! There is someone else that can decipher this ploy to get "permission" to ask out the resident.

OP clearly feels guilty about this situation. Thus, she is using this thread to get some peace of mind (even if it means stacking the argument to the other side and not being completely forthright).

Furthermore, if I was a betting man, I would bet that the resident KNOWINGLY gave this girl some encouragement by flirting with her. The resident is NOT innocent in this situation. Here are some likely reasons for this flirtation. The resident is looking for attention that his wife doesn't give, seeking a one night stand, or simply a histrionic personallity.

Regardless, he will NOT leave his wife. If the OP is immoral and looking for a good time, "the apple seems ripe to be eaten." as long as you know how to spit some game. Just keep in mind, your heart will suffer the consequences. There is no such thing as free lunch EVEN in the game of lust.

 

[Cpt.Hook Hamate]

1) when i was on his service we definitely did some "harmless" flirting but
2) he's married! Although he never actually mentioned his wife to me, he clearly wore a ring.

Harmless flirting, huh? Tell his wife this and your significant other and I will bet that someone will be harmed by it. In a case such as this, a surgeon can be invaluable.

You know this. That is why you chose to use use an anonymous...I mean decided to register for the first time.

 

[lvspro]

Well well.
I still think you should ride 'em. Also, my offer still stands if you need a fifth for a fivesome.

 

[CaliMSIII]

However, in your situation, you clearly have sinister intent. Why else would you title this thread "asking out married resident".

hmmm, to be honest, i was trying to use a title that would catch people's attention - who's going to click on a thread titled "should i ask my surgical resident for advice about the field of surgery?". seemed to work. 🙄

i brought up that he hadn't mentioned his wife to me to make it clear that we never explicitly discussed it. but he must realize that i know he's married due to his wedding ring and thus he should not think i was coming on to him by asking him out to coffee. jeez.

but i think i give up. i didn't feel guilty about the whole thing until everyone started to make such a big deal out of it. i had no idea i was so immoral. in fact, now i know it's amazing i passed the ethics section of the boards. 🙄

 

[toofache32]

Well well.
I still think you should ride 'em. Also, my offer still stands if you need a fifth for a fivesome.

Lots of sword-fighters here...

 

[Pox in a box]

hmmm, to be honest, i was trying to use a title that would catch people's attention - who's going to click on a thread titled "should i ask my surgical resident for advice about the field of surgery?". seemed to work. 🙄

i brought up that he hadn't mentioned his wife to me to make it clear that we never explicitly discussed it. but he must realize that i know he's married due to his wedding ring and thus he should not think i was coming on to him by asking him out to coffee. jeez.

but i think i give up. i didn't feel guilty about the whole thing until everyone started to make such a big deal out of it. i had no idea i was so immoral. in fact, now i know it's amazing i passed the ethics section of the boards. 🙄

Here's a thought...if you didn't want to jeopardize your career, you'd say this chump isn't worth dealing with (considering he's only a resident...if you're going to sleep with someone, why wouldn't you nail an attending (playing devil's advocate)???). If you just want to "talk" (haha), why don't you ask someone else to "talk." If your true intentions are to "talk," then first "talk" with another female resident. I think you're trying to rationalize (read under "Ego defenses" in First Aid for the USMLE Step 1) your way into having an affair with a resident, plain and simple.

 

[p53]

hmmm, to be honest, i was trying to use a title that would catch people's attention - who's going to click on a thread titled "should i ask my surgical resident for advice about the field of surgery?". seemed to work. 🙄

i brought up that he hadn't mentioned his wife to me to make it clear that we never explicitly discussed it. but he must realize that i know he's married due to his wedding ring and thus he should not think i was coming on to him by asking him out to coffee. jeez.

but i think i give up. i didn't feel guilty about the whole thing until everyone started to make such a big deal out of it. i had no idea i was so immoral. in fact, now i know it's amazing i passed the ethics section of the boards. 🙄

Busted!!! Looks like your meteoric rise to sluthood has hit its zenith.

STOP PLAYING GAMES, CALI!!! Just admit YOU ARE ATTRACTED TO HIM. That is what this is about!!!

Why don't you do yourself a favor and buy a pocket rocket, close your eyes and think about this resident. Alternatively, you have permission to burn my avatar in your mind while you are getting busy.

 

[ShyRem]

Ok. I'll put a voice in here. First, let me say I'm married. Happily. My husband is my best friend, and the feeling is mutual. Co-workers of the opposite sex have asked him out for a beer to pick his brain about all kinds of stuff. I have no problem with it. I know it's just a beer (or coffee, or whatever). However, I am (as I am reminded by others) "different... in the nicest sort of way." Many wives of friends and acquaintances are horribly insecure, jealous, and vindictive. Heck, a few wives won't even let their husbands come over to play pool with my husband unless they come along. I find such behavior and lack of trust strange. Common, but strange nonetheless.

If I were you, send him an email and ask if you can take him for coffee sometime to discuss the pros and cons of surgery. That puts the situation squarely in the light and he can tell his wife or not as he wishes. You, however, will be doing things above-board. Me? I wouldn't care if someone called here at the house. Most of the wives I know? The husband would be sleeping on the couch for at least a week.

 

[Dire Straits]

to the OP, we all know what this is really about. i have a few suggestions that will help you pull this off on both fronts. pm me if interested.

 

[TruTrooper]

.....Heck, a few wives won't even let their husbands come over to play pool with my husband unless they come along. I find such behavior and lack of trust strange. Common, but strange nonetheless.
.

Just a minor point but.....it cannot be common and strange at the same time. Either it is common and not strange or it is strange and uncommon.

This sort of behavior is common because there are a lot of loose women out there who commonly sleep with other women's husbands and vice versa. It is uncommon for spouses to be completely okay with this "coffee" thing. Now we can talk all day about how things should be but where would that get us?

in fact, now i know it's amazing i passed the ethics section of the boards.

No you didn't. You didn't get the memo? Actual ethics is now tested in the clinical setting. It's like getting PUNK'D. You just failed, sister. This whole situation will be described in detail on your transcript.

 

[lvspro]

Lots of sword-fighters here...

LOL
I'll bet my schwartz is bigger than yours.

 

[raspberry swirl]

this is sooo gray's anatomy . . .

doesn't the hospital have a little coffee place in it? we have a little starbucks kiosk with some tables and chairs- you can even sit outside. that way, you could pretend its going out for coffee, and he could pretend its simply a break from an otherwise hectic day . . .

 

[Febrifuge]

but he must realize that i know he's married due to his wedding ring and thus he should not think i was coming on to him by asking him out to coffee. jeez.

I think the trouble here is that your conclusion does not necessarily follow from your proposition. No pun intended.

Clearly, plenty of people here on the ol' board (and what a fine source it is for advice, eh?) don't share in the assumptions you make. Namely that a) just because the guy wore a ring in your presence, he is privy to the magnitude of your clear and unambiguous understanding that he is married, and therefore b) if you should call, there would be no possibility of his misunderstanding your sincere desire for career advice to be an impure motive.

I mean, I believe you, and it makes perfect sense, but you're not leaving room for any other possible interpretations of your action should you choose to call the guy. There are, I am sure, married surgeons who love to engage in "harmless flirting" with students... and much, much more. There are, I am sure, students who enjoy a whole spectrum of activity too, and the ring on the finger is not a significant factor for either party. Whether or not he or you are those people isn't the entire point; you have to wonder if he might misunderstand... or if you already have.

I'm in the same camp as ShyRem; if some male coworker of my girlfriend wanted to go out for coffee or a beer after work and discuss some nuance of the IT game where she's an expert, I might ask "so does this guy understand you're not single?" but it wouldn't shake me up more than that. As long as he does understand, I don't worry about her. Heck, even if he does have some weird idea in his head about her being available, I trust her to shoot it right down.

I guess what we're getting at is, if you have some more solid basis for your confidence that both you and he are totally 100% professional-only, and it's dumb to even worry about it, then by all means. Make the call, page the guy, suggest the coffee to talk about your questions. But something about the way this whole thing has been presented, not least of which this whole "I don't know how I know, but of course it's not like that" angle, seem to arouse suspicions.

Either that, or, you know, the usual "bunch of *****s on the Internet" phenomenon. Plus as a side note, it would be nice if your SO and his wife were in on it in some way too, even if it's just you asking your SO "hey, would you think it was weird if I ____?" If you've never had a talk like that, it seems like no matter what you do, the first time it comes up you will have done the wrong thing. Trust me on that. 😛

 

[lexrageorge]

Time to offer my worthless opinion on the matter:

If you've been honest in explaining your intentions (I have my doubts, unfortunately), there is NOTHING wrong with contacting this resident and asking if you could meet during a break or after work for coffee to discuss some questions you have about career choices. Just be clear about your intentions, as others have said. If his wife has a problem with this, which I think is unlikely, that's her problem, not yours.

If, OTOH, you like the intrigue of having secret dates to engage in "harmless flirting" with married men, there are plenty of other web sites that can give you advice on that matter. It's your life and career. Just remember that one does indeed reap the harvest of what one sows.