Astro Career Center and "A Roadmap for Recruiting Medical Students into Radiation Oncology during a Period of Waning Interest"

[evilbooyaa]

As much as we like to self-refer as the True Oncologists(TM), getting formal training in med onc, and learning how to give and deal with the myriad ever expanding systemic therapies, is the only way to continue calling ourselves that with any credibility. And maybe the only way to lead and fund meaningful radiation related research.

GynOncs? Neuro-Oncs?

Other folks giving chemotherapy that aren't Heme/Oncs out there.

All the concurrent stuff, most ROs can be more proficient at dealing with the toxicities of that more so than an overworked/understaffed gyn/onc or med/onc clinic....

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Idea that one must be IM BC to give chemo is nonsense. Gyn onc and neuro onc learn all during training, could be learned during training. We are talking giving TMZ, concurrent platinum, taxol, etc. med onc and hospitalists are there to help.

 

[drowsy12]

Idea that one must be IM BC to give chemo is nonsense. Gyn onc and neuro onc learn all during training, could be learned during training. We are talking giving TMZ, concurrent platinum, taxol, etc. med onc and hospitalists are there to help.

I would argue that oral targeted therapies that we prescribe are more easily in our reasonable wheelhouse and may be logistically a better approach than needing to worry about infusion center access, etc

 

[TheWallnerus]

I would argue that oral targeted therapies that we prescribe are more easily in our reasonable wheelhouse and may be logistically a better approach than needing to worry about infusion center access, etc

Giving OTTs would be neat and cool and intellectually stimulating. Just not sure it would help our job market long term.

 

[RickyScott]

Does anyone have a sense of how the current crop of "post-peak" residents are doing in residency? Is it a disaster? Adding responsibility seems like a good idea until it's not.

I have repeatedly heard that many are far less motivated and I am not talking abt research. Common complaint is there is no drive to improve clinical knowledge.

 

[RickyScott]

As much as we like to self-refer as the True Oncologists(TM), getting formal training in med onc, and learning how to give and deal with the myriad ever expanding systemic therapies, is the only way to continue calling ourselves that with any credibility. And maybe the only way to lead and fund meaningful radiation related research.

Yip, long snappers are rarelt the captain of the football team.

 

[temujim]

GynOncs? Neuro-Oncs?

Other folks giving chemotherapy that aren't Heme/Oncs out there.

All the concurrent stuff, most ROs can be more proficient at dealing with the toxicities of that more so than an overworked/understaffed gyn/onc or med/onc clinic....

Integrate 12 months of med onc into the 4 year rad onc residency. No heme. What's stopping programs?

 

[Fpg1245]

Integrate 12 months of med onc into the 4 year rad onc residency. No heme. What's stopping programs?

Is 12 months of onc enough?
I worry about potential newly minted RO/MO getting referrals compared to a typical med onc.

I do agree we could be using our time in residency learning actual skills rather than a “research year”

 

[Doctorer]

Is 12 months of onc enough?
I worry about potential newly minted RO/MO getting referrals compared to a typical med onc.

I do agree we could be using our time in residency learning actual skills rather than a “research year”

Heme onc fellowship is 3 years. Many programs do research for a year. That leaves two years for heme and onc.

Not entirely equivalent, but add on the 3 years that radoncs spend in clinic...

 

[Fpg1245]

Heme onc fellowship is 3 years. Many programs do research for a year. That leaves two years for heme and onc.

Not entirely equivalent, but add on the 3 years that radoncs spend in clinic...

I feel like we will get sucked into doing heme one way or another. Working up anemia and what not. Not saying it’s a bad thing but I mean I feel like with taking on med onc the other medical issues become fair game

 

[medgator]

I feel like we will get sucked into doing heme one way or another. Working up anemia and what not. Not saying it’s a bad thing but I mean I feel like with taking on med onc the other medical issues become fair game

Plenty of pure med onc jobs in bigger cities

 

[CaesarRO]

GynOncs? Neuro-Oncs?

Other folks giving chemotherapy that aren't Heme/Oncs out there.

All the concurrent stuff, most ROs can be more proficient at dealing with the toxicities of that more so than an overworked/understaffed gyn/onc or med/onc clinic....

Problem is that they are upstream of referrals. If they give systemic therapy nobody is gonna stop sending the patients to them. We're downstream. It all comes down to turf wars.

We'd have to capture the direct referrals from the surgeons/primary docs

 

[fiji128]

How about close every program that cant support brachytherapy training?

This has been talked about in theory for years. The RRC would need to implement this and they have previously made program minimum requirements more stringent in an effort to prevent new programs from being approved and existing ones from expanding. However, a lot of "stakeholders" would need to be on board to up brachy requirements beyond current levels, which means it will never happen.

 

[evilbooyaa]

I feel like we will get sucked into doing heme one way or another. Working up anemia and what not. Not saying it’s a bad thing but I mean I feel like with taking on med onc the other medical issues become fair game

There are fellowships out there that do ONLY onc and don't even get boarded in benign heme.

This has been talked about in theory for years. The RRC would need to implement this and they have previously made program minimum requirements more stringent in an effort to prevent new programs from being approved and existing ones from expanding. However, a lot of "stakeholders" would need to be on board to up brachy requirements beyond current levels, which means it will never happen.

Any program farming out brachy experience to all residents due to lack of exposure at home shoudl close.

Integrate 12 months of med onc into the 4 year rad onc residency. No heme. What's stopping programs?

Spinelessness and turf wars.

Med Oncs will say 'patient safety' from not having 3 years of managing inpatients even though hospitalist is the most common nationwide method of admission for an Onc patient.

 

[fiji128]

Update of the current Astro Career Center Job (pre ASTRO) posting on 02/14/2024:


1) Rad Onc community academics with Mass General (Northhampton, MA).
2) Rad Onc private practice with a suburban Detroit based group, no name given (Grosse Pointe Woods, MI).
3) Rad Onc employed with Ascension St. Vincent Cancer Center (Evansville, IN).
4) Rad Onc academcis Indiana University (Indianapolis, IN).
5) Rad Onc employed with St. Joseph/Candler Health (Bluffton and Hilton Head, SC).
6) Rad Onc academics with Duke (Durham, NC).
7) Rad Onc commuity academics with University of Nebraska (Kearney, NE).
8) Rad Onc private practice in SE Michigan with 3 offices, no group name give (Mt Clemens, Clarkston, Port Huron, MI). Salary $350,000 to $400,000.
9) Rad Onc private practice with Charleston Radiation Therapy Consultants (Charleston, WV).
10) Rad Onc employed with Med Center Health (Bowling Green, KY).
11) Rad Onc employed with Northwest Cancer Center (Hobart, IN).
12) Rad Onc employed with Pinnacle Health Group (Tampa, FL).
13) Rad Onc private practice with Radiation Oncology Care at Meridian Park (Portland, OR).
14) Rad Onc private practice with Southeastern Radiation Oncology (Lumberton, NC).
15) Rad Onc employed with Southern Ohio Medical Center (Portsmouth, OH). $100,000 sign on bonus and $601,544 salary with outstanding bonus incentives.
16) Rad Onc employed with Florida Cancer Specialist (Sarasota, FL).
17) Rad Onc academics with Univerisity of Iowa (Iowa City, IA).
18) Rad Onc private practice with SSM Health Group (St. Louis, MO).
19) Rad Onc employed with Common Spirit Health Mountain Region (Longmont, CO). Salary $18 to $800 an hour.
20) Rad Onc academics with University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center (Dallas, TX).
21) Rad Onc academcis with University of Cincinnati (Cincinnati, OH).
22) Rad Onc academics with SUNY Upstate (Syracuse, NY).
23) Rad Onc employed with the US Oncology Network (Covinton, GA).
24) Rad Onc employed with the US Oncology Network (Harlingen, TX).
25) Rad Onc employed with the US Oncology Network (Roanoke, VA).
26) Rad Onc employed with the US Oncology Network (Tucson, AZ).
27) Rad Onc employed with the US Oncology Network (Blairsville, GA).
28) Rad Onc academics with UAB (Birmingham, AL).
29) Rad Onc private practice with Dayton Physicians Network (Dayton, OH).
30) Rad Onc employed (Rockford, IL). Sign on bonus of $50,000. Salary starting at $575,000.
31) Rad Onc private practice with Radiation Oncology Consultants (Grants Pass, OR).
32) Derm Rads with Clear Choice Dermatology (Warrenton, OR). Salary $300,000 to $450,000.
33) Rad Onc community academics with U of Pittsburg (Greensburg, Pittsburgh, Seneca, PA).
34) Rad Onc employed with Samaritan Health Services (Corvallis, OR).
35) Rad Onc employed with the US Oncology Network (Santa Fe, NM).
36) Rad Onc employed with the US Oncology Network (El Paso, TX).
37) Rad Onc employed with Cumberland Medical Center and Covenant Health (Crossville, TN).
38) Rad Onc community academics with University of Iowa (Bettendorf, IA).
39) Rad Onc academics with University of Texas Medical Branch (Galveston, TX).
40) Rad Onc community academics at Medical University of South Carolina (Murrells Inlet, SC).
41) Rad Onc employed with SSM Health St. Mary’s (Jefferson City, MO).
42) Rad Onc emplyed with McFarland Clinic (Ames, IA).
43) Rad Onc community academics with Cleveland Clinic (Stuart, FL).
44) Rad Onc employed with Kettering Health (Troy, OH).
45) Rad Onc academics with Allegheny Health Network (Pittsburgh, PA).
46) Rad Onc community academics with U Penn (Lancaster, PA).
47) Rad Onc employed with Owensboro Health (Owensboro, KY).
48) Rad Onc community academics with Allegheny Health (Erie, PA). Salary $50,000 to $500,000.
49) Rad Onc academics with USCF (San Francisco, CA). The minimum base salary range for this position is $123,500-$377,200.
50) Rad Onc amacdemics with University of Florida (Gainesville, FL).
51) Rad Onc employed with Cancer and Hematology Centers (Garden City, MI).
52) Rad Onc employed with Palo Alto Foundation Medical Group (Palo Alto, CA).
53) Rad Onc academics with University of Kentucky (Lexinton, KY).
54) Rad Onc employed with Mercy Hospital (Fort Smith, AR).
55) Rad Onc employed with MercyOne (Waterloo, IA). $75,000 sign on bonus and $550,000 salary guarantee with production incentivs.
56) Rad Onc employed with Holy Cross Medical Group (Ft. Lauderdale, FL).
57) Rad Onc employed with St. Peter’s Health Partners (Albany, NY).
58) Rad Onc employed with Trinity Health of New England (Springfield, MA).
59) Rad Onc employed with Mercy One North (Mason City, IA). $100,000 sign on bonus.
60) Rad One employed with OSF Healthcare (Peoria and Galesburg, IL).
61) Rad Onc employed with Atlantic Health System (Summit and Morristown, NJ).
62) Rad Onc academics with Vanderbilt (Nashville, TN).
63) Rad Onc employed with Marshfield Clinic (Rice Lake, WI). Salary $50,000 to $1,000,000.
64) Rad Onc employed with Riverside Health System (Newport News and Onancock, VA).
65) Rad Onc employed with Capital Health (Lawrenceville, NJ).
66) Rad Onc academics with University of Maryland (Baltimore, MD).
67) Rad Onc employed with ProMedica Cancer Institute (Fremont, OH).
68) Rad Onc employed with Carle Health (Peoria, IL).
69) Rad Onc employed with Banner Health (Gilbert, IL).
70) Rad Onc employed with Community Health Partners (Fresno, CA).

 

[Mandelin Rain]

(Longmont, CO). Salary $18 to $800 an hour.

Colorado posting compliance met!

 

[Mandelin Rain]

8 (eight!) private practice jobs available. At least a couple of them are CAUTION!

G'luck y'all.

 

[deleted1180461]

19) Rad Onc employed with Common Spirit Health Mountain Region (Longmont, CO). Salary $18 to $800 an hour.
48) Rad Onc community academics with Allegheny Health (Erie, PA). Salary $50,000 to $500,000.
49) Rad Onc academics with USCF (San Francisco, CA). The minimum base salary range for this position is $123,500-$377,200.
63) Rad Onc employed with Marshfield Clinic (Rice Lake, WI). Salary $50,000 to $1,000,000.

Guys, we are looking to hire.
Between 2-50 on treatment.
1-7 day workweek.
Pay is between minimum wage and 7 billion.

DM me if interested and I'll get you an interview between now and 2030.

 

[UndecidedMS2]

Update of the current Astro Career Center Job (pre ASTRO) posting on 02/14/2024:


1) Rad Onc community academics with Mass General (Northhampton, MA).
2) Rad Onc private practice with a suburban Detroit based group, no name given (Grosse Pointe Woods, MI).
3) Rad Onc employed with Ascension St. Vincent Cancer Center (Evansville, IN).
4) Rad Onc academcis Indiana University (Indianapolis, IN).
5) Rad Onc employed with St. Joseph/Candler Health (Bluffton and Hilton Head, SC).
6) Rad Onc academics with Duke (Durham, NC).
7) Rad Onc commuity academics with University of Nebraska (Kearney, NE).
8) Rad Onc private practice in SE Michigan with 3 offices, no group name give (Mt Clemens, Clarkston, Port Huron, MI). Salary $350,000 to $400,000.
9) Rad Onc private practice with Charleston Radiation Therapy Consultants (Charleston, WV).
10) Rad Onc employed with Med Center Health (Bowling Green, KY).
11) Rad Onc employed with Northwest Cancer Center (Hobart, IN).
12) Rad Onc employed with Pinnacle Health Group (Tampa, FL).
13) Rad Onc private practice with Radiation Oncology Care at Meridian Park (Portland, OR).
14) Rad Onc private practice with Southeastern Radiation Oncology (Lumberton, NC).
15) Rad Onc employed with Southern Ohio Medical Center (Portsmouth, OH). $100,000 sign on bonus and $601,544 salary with outstanding bonus incentives.
16) Rad Onc employed with Florida Cancer Specialist (Sarasota, FL).
17) Rad Onc academics with Univerisity of Iowa (Iowa City, IA).
18) Rad Onc private practice with SSM Health Group (St. Louis, MO).
19) Rad Onc employed with Common Spirit Health Mountain Region (Longmont, CO). Salary $18 to $800 an hour.
20) Rad Onc academics with University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center (Dallas, TX).
21) Rad Onc academcis with University of Cincinnati (Cincinnati, OH).
22) Rad Onc academics with SUNY Upstate (Syracuse, NY).
23) Rad Onc employed with the US Oncology Network (Covinton, GA).
24) Rad Onc employed with the US Oncology Network (Harlingen, TX).
25) Rad Onc employed with the US Oncology Network (Roanoke, VA).
26) Rad Onc employed with the US Oncology Network (Tucson, AZ).
27) Rad Onc employed with the US Oncology Network (Blairsville, GA).
28) Rad Onc academics with UAB (Birmingham, AL).
29) Rad Onc private practice with Dayton Physicians Network (Dayton, OH).
30) Rad Onc employed (Rockford, IL). Sign on bonus of $50,000. Salary starting at $575,000.
31) Rad Onc private practice with Radiation Oncology Consultants (Grants Pass, OR).
32) Derm Rads with Clear Choice Dermatology (Warrenton, OR). Salary $300,000 to $450,000.
33) Rad Onc community academics with U of Pittsburg (Greensburg, Pittsburgh, Seneca, PA).
34) Rad Onc employed with Samaritan Health Services (Corvallis, OR).
35) Rad Onc employed with the US Oncology Network (Santa Fe, NM).
36) Rad Onc employed with the US Oncology Network (El Paso, TX).
37) Rad Onc employed with Cumberland Medical Center and Covenant Health (Crossville, TN).
38) Rad Onc community academics with University of Iowa (Bettendorf, IA).
39) Rad Onc academics with University of Texas Medical Branch (Galveston, TX).
40) Rad Onc community academics at Medical University of South Carolina (Murrells Inlet, SC).
41) Rad Onc employed with SSM Health St. Mary’s (Jefferson City, MO).
42) Rad Onc emplyed with McFarland Clinic (Ames, IA).
43) Rad Onc community academics with Cleveland Clinic (Stuart, FL).
44) Rad Onc employed with Kettering Health (Troy, OH).
45) Rad Onc academics with Allegheny Health Network (Pittsburgh, PA).
46) Rad Onc community academics with U Penn (Lancaster, PA).
47) Rad Onc employed with Owensboro Health (Owensboro, KY).
48) Rad Onc community academics with Allegheny Health (Erie, PA). Salary $50,000 to $500,000.
49) Rad Onc academics with USCF (San Francisco, CA). The minimum base salary range for this position is $123,500-$377,200.
50) Rad Onc amacdemics with University of Florida (Gainesville, FL).
51) Rad Onc employed with Cancer and Hematology Centers (Garden City, MI).
52) Rad Onc employed with Palo Alto Foundation Medical Group (Palo Alto, CA).
53) Rad Onc academics with University of Kentucky (Lexinton, KY).
54) Rad Onc employed with Mercy Hospital (Fort Smith, AR).
55) Rad Onc employed with MercyOne (Waterloo, IA). $75,000 sign on bonus and $550,000 salary guarantee with production incentivs.
56) Rad Onc employed with Holy Cross Medical Group (Ft. Lauderdale, FL).
57) Rad Onc employed with St. Peter’s Health Partners (Albany, NY).
58) Rad Onc employed with Trinity Health of New England (Springfield, MA).
59) Rad Onc employed with Mercy One North (Mason City, IA). $100,000 sign on bonus.
60) Rad One employed with OSF Healthcare (Peoria and Galesburg, IL).
61) Rad Onc employed with Atlantic Health System (Summit and Morristown, NJ).
62) Rad Onc academics with Vanderbilt (Nashville, TN).
63) Rad Onc employed with Marshfield Clinic (Rice Lake, WI). Salary $50,000 to $1,000,000.
64) Rad Onc employed with Riverside Health System (Newport News and Onancock, VA).
65) Rad Onc employed with Capital Health (Lawrenceville, NJ).
66) Rad Onc academics with University of Maryland (Baltimore, MD).
67) Rad Onc employed with ProMedica Cancer Institute (Fremont, OH).
68) Rad Onc employed with Carle Health (Peoria, IL).
69) Rad Onc employed with Banner Health (Gilbert, IL).
70) Rad Onc employed with Community Health Partners (Fresno, CA).

Wow, last couple updates were showing improvement in job market each time… I was really expecting stellar postings but this is bad. Barely any private practices, barely any high 6-figure salaries, barely any large city positions. I really hope things get better at some point (hopefully sooner than later)

 

[deleted1180461]

Wow, last couple updates were showing improvement in job market each time… I was really expecting stellar postings but this is bad. Barely any private practices, barely any high 6-figure salaries, barely any large city positions. I really hope things get better at some point (hopefully sooner than later)

It's almost like watching the housing market at this point as the hospital jobs pile up and sit there.

Everybody is trying to sell their 3 bedroom house they bought 10 years ago in random suburb, America for 300k for $1M. They are sitting on the market for 6+ months and everyone is scratching their heads trying to figure out why nobody is buying anything anymore.

It's the prices (salary), stupid. A house (job) in Des Moines is going to have less demand than one in Palo Alto. So you just airBNB (locums) it out in the meantime because you are pennywise and poundfoolish.

 

[Fpg1245]

Wow, last couple updates were showing improvement in job market each time… I was really expecting stellar postings but this is bad. Barely any private practices, barely any high 6-figure salaries, barely any large city positions. I really hope things get better at some point (hopefully sooner than later)

Even the ones in the middle of nowhere have zero wage premium. Hope the secret job treasure trove shows up soon! Job market is still a joke.

 

[Mandelin Rain]

Iowa is FLUSH with jobs!

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Wow, last couple updates were showing improvement in job market each time… I was really expecting stellar postings but this is bad. Barely any private practices, barely any high 6-figure salaries, barely any large city positions. I really hope things get better at some point (hopefully sooner than later)

If you are truly an undecided MS2, who fell victim to the predation of our “leaders”, they have lied to you. They have gaslighted you. It is not late for you to change course. Run like you have never run before. If you don’t want to feel “stuck” somewhere, do not go into this field. The ability to find opportunities for many are limited.

 

[seper]

bogus salary ranges are under investigation by multiple regulators

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Even the ones in the middle of nowhere have zero wage premium. Hope the secret job treasure trove shows up soon! Job market is still a joke.

“Just network bro. Send some cold emails. Amazing jobs out there bro!”

 

[UndecidedMS2]

If you are truly an undecided MS2, who fell victim to the predation of our “leaders”, they have lied to you. They have gaslighted you. It is not late for you to change course. Run like you have never run before. If you don’t want to feel “stuck” somewhere, do not go into this field. The ability to find opportunities for many are limited.

Well not undecided anymore, that was when I made the profile. I really hope things change in the next 5-6 years. The one thing that doesn’t make sense to me is the recent survey showed 90% of the PGY-5s were satisfied the jobs they got. Are there great jobs that aren’t posted and I don’t know of?

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Well not undecided anymore, that was when I made the profile. I really hope things change in the next 5-6 years. The one thing that doesn’t make sense to me is the recent survey showed 90% of the PGY-5s were satisfied the jobs they got. Are there great jobs that aren’t posted and I don’t know of?

Asking a pgy5 if they are “satisfied” is a pointless metric. They have not even started their jobs. There are tons of bait and switch. There are many things you learn once you start that changes things.

 

[medgator]

Well not undecided anymore, that was when I made the profile. I really hope things change in the next 5-6 years. The one thing that doesn’t make sense to me is the recent survey showed 90% of the PGY-5s were satisfied the jobs they got. Are there great jobs that aren’t posted and I don’t know of?

Ask them 2-3 years in. Remember these are folks who are going to be satisfied with having a signed contract before they start

 

[deleted1180461]

Asking a pgy5 if they are “satisfied” is a pointless metric. They have not even started their jobs. There are tons of bait and switch. There are many things you learn once you start that changes things.

I got a six figure signing bonus as a resident. Is was nice to have that check hit my account as a pgy4. I was very “satisfied”

3 years later, far more than that “bonus” had been stolen from me in the hell I found myself in.

 

[NotMattSpraker]

(Longmont, CO). Salary $18 to $800 an hour.

Colorado posting compliance met!

I know some people in this network and heard about this posting. It is real, not a formality post, they are hiring.

Regarding the range, I heard they wanted to have the lowest offered pay in all of Rad Onc. Got real aggressive with it. I haven't had the heart to tell them about SCAROP and how low you can really go. $18/hr is like, pretty sick. You can live just fine and still have money left over for ASTRO PAC. 90% of people are satisfied, you've seen the data. Stop being so negative.

The $800/hr is a pay equity law thing. That's what the med oncs make, so they had to post it.

(Sarcasm tag... because anything is possible in medicine. Reach out with questions)

 

[Neuronix]

Guys, we are looking to hire.
Between 2-50 on treatment.
1-7 day workweek.
Pay is between minimum wage and 7 billion.

DM me if interested and I'll get you an interview between now and 2030.

They didn't used to post the salary expectation, so I reported them to the state of Colorado. This was in an SDN thread and I encouraged others to report them. I also shared my report to the state labor board with others by PM.

That's what we got in return. What a joke.

I've heard through the grapevine that many of the salaries in Denver area are pathetically low, and others who interviewed with them were lowballed.

 

[deleted1180461]

https://www.obroncology.com/article/decline-in-radiation-oncology-residency-applications-raises-concerns

 

[radoncftw]

https://www.obroncology.com/article/decline-in-radiation-oncology-residency-applications-raises-concerns

what a joke.
"exposure?"

I don't recall getting much exposure to dermatology or ENT or urology during med school.
Med students are smart and seek the specialties out that meet their career goals.

 

[TheWallnerus]

Come get exposure at the rad onc talk I’m giving. Please!

 

[seper]

https://www.obroncology.com/article/decline-in-radiation-oncology-residency-applications-raises-concerns

Great commentary from Chirag. Whichever journo wrote the news article knew whom to contact

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

Come get exposure at the rad onc talk I’m giving. Please!View attachment 383545

Place looks packed! Record attendance

 

[BobbyHeenan]

The "exposure" discourse comes up about every 18 months and it is such COPE.

These people are so unserious.

Great commentary from Chirag. Whichever journo wrote the news article knew whom to contact

I have loved Shah on this issue, but I disagree with this statement:

Shah: "I don’t think we can support any kind of collective action. Each program has to look internally and be self-reflective..."

These programs have had a decade to 'self reflect.' They've done so, and have determined the needs of their dept (resident coverage, covering satellites, "growth" of their dept) supersedes the priorities of the field, patients, or applicants. With VERY few exceptions the self reflection has been "our department is growing and can support more residents" in spite of national trends and needs.

It's time to break glass and put an immediate stop to expansion and shut some places down. They will not self police.

 

[NotMattSpraker]

The "exposure" discourse comes up about every 18 months and it is such COPE.

These people are so unserious.



I have loved Shah on this issue, but I disagree with this statement:

Shah: "I don’t think we can support any kind of collective action. Each program has to look internally and be self-reflective..."

These programs have had a decade to 'self reflect.' They've done so, and have determined the needs of their dept (resident coverage, covering satellites, "growth" of their dept) supersedes the priorities of the field, patients, or applicants. With VERY few exceptions the self reflection has been "our department is growing and can support more residents" in spite of national trends and needs.

It's time to break glass and put an immediate stop to expansion and shut some places down. They will not self police.

I agree.

I think its a cop out excuse and SCAROP are hiding behind ASTRO's "lawyers". Same thing with the wage fixing survey.

 

[Gfunk6]

Med students are smart and seek the specialties out that meet their career goals.

This. A thousand times this.

Med Students can smell a sinking ship. No amount of "exposure" will compel them to commit career suicide.

 

[Gfunk6]

Place looks packed! Record attendance

LOL, half of the audience probably figured that a dark, nearly unoccupied room was a great place to catch up on email or play Words with Friends.

 

[TheWallnerus]

This. A thousand times this.

Med Students can smell a sinking ship. No amount of "exposure" will compel them to commit career suicide.

I mean wasn’t there a news story about a guy getting so many mean texts his gf compelled him to commit suicide? So people CAN be compelled. Of course you really gotta question the mental status of people who can be compelled to commit suicide. And also the mental status of people compelling people to suicide! Low energy folks and bad hombres, respectively.

 

[deleted1180461]

Great commentary from Chirag. Whichever journo wrote the news article knew whom to contact

Agree, it was nice to see an opinion on this from an independent journalist and not having to be vetted by the red-liners at ASTRO for their Правда-esque newsletter.

 

[mheat3]

These people are so unserious.

 

[deleted1180461]

This. A thousand times this.

Med Students can smell a sinking ship. No amount of "exposure" will compel them to commit career suicide.

Sometimes I wonder if certain private practices are banking on this. Hospitals are going to always have some sort of MGMA metric even if the production bonus sucks, you'll still ok. Yet practices are still flummoxed they can't get any new grads to bite on their 300k 3 year, "trust us" partnership tracks. New grads still don't seem be dumb yet and realizing the value of security from making as much bank as you can early on.

I mean wasn’t there a news story about a guy getting so many mean texts his gf compelled him to commit suicide? So people CAN be compelled. Of course you really gotta question the mental status of people who can be compelled to commit suicide. And also the mental status of people compelling people to suicide! Low energy folks and bad hombres, respectively.

Certain people are susceptible to cults and god-like leaders. The one where they convinced everyone to castrate themselves, drink poison, and ride away on a comet. They convinced previously functional people to go along with that. Graduating rad oncs still making non-insane career choices, so rad onc's not ballsless comet-level... yet.

 

[UndecidedMS2]

I think we need a resident union focusing on career. These places have no shame. $300k for 3 years is legit ridiculous. No self respecting new grad should ever consider such bs. Yes, the exposure to Rad Onc is abysmal in med school but that’s not the real issue whatsoever. You don’t get that much exposure about plastic surgery or surgical oncology either but you don’t see these kind of bs offers in those fields. Unfortunately, for as long as there are new grads who take these positions and are somehow “satisfied”, nothing will change.

 

[NotMattSpraker]

Unfortunately, for as long as there are new grads who take these positions and are somehow “satisfied”, nothing will change.

Yea so, keep matching/graduating to support a nice supply of radiation oncologists, even if 75% of the people you are filling your unfilled spots with have no desire to work in this field. Keep underpaying new grads but make sure you work very hard to keep that salary information secret. Survey all new grads about their satisfaction right before they graduate, but prohibit any data collection about their happiness after they graduate. Lobby so that all policies support hospitals and stack the deck toward consolidation into large network practices.

All that stuff just "happens" by accent, right? ASTRO is looking out for all radiation oncologists, stop being so negative.

I guess this is the luckiest group of employers the US has ever seen 🙂

 

[deleted1180461]

$300k for 3 years is legit ridiculous. No self respecting new grad should ever consider such bs.

They tell you you'll make 1.2+ as a partner (you most likely won't). If this were true, you would eventually break even and come out significantly ahead in retirement at the expense of a lifestyle hit for the first 10 years of your career. So yeah, it's great if you make that trade off and it works. Alternatively, you dig yourself a big hole at the start of your career when investment income matters the most.
It's a such stupid trick.

 

[seper]

The "exposure" discourse comes up about every 18 months and it is such COPE.

These people are so unserious.



I have loved Shah on this issue, but I disagree with this statement:

Shah: "I don’t think we can support any kind of collective action. Each program has to look internally and be self-reflective..."

These programs have had a decade to 'self reflect.' They've done so, and have determined the needs of their dept (resident coverage, covering satellites, "growth" of their dept) supersedes the priorities of the field, patients, or applicants. With VERY few exceptions the self reflection has been "our department is growing and can support more residents" in spite of national trends and needs.

It's time to break glass and put an immediate stop to expansion and shut some places down. They will not self police.

Good point. Who does he refer to in “we cannot support collective action”?

 

[fiji128]

Good point. Who does he refer to in “we cannot support collective action”?

I took this to mean that the RCC (Resident Review Committee at the ACGME) can not get sufficient support (ie way too much push back from those that might stand to lose) to raise the training requirements in things like Peds and brachy in a way that would challenge any current programs and their resident compliment numbers.

 

[Neuronix]

To put it plainly, according to SCAROP/ASTRO:

It is not anti-trust to generate a salary survey among radiation oncology chairs and only distribute it to radiation oncology chairs.

The disclaimer on page 2 of that survey that it "may not be used to limit competition, restrain trade, or reduce or stabilize salary or benefit levels" totally negates any possible anti-trust issues.

However, it is definitely anti-trust to try to limit over-expansion of residency positions.

"We cannot support collective action" is a strange statement considering the support for collusion on salaries.