How is it even possible to finance a dental education at a private school? It is highly likely that one would emerge with a 300K debt. Even the cheapest public schools will cost 150-200K. With this type of burden, even if you were making 100K, your income would be in the 30,000s net. That is figuring a long-term consolidation at current low rates. If you tried to pay it off in ten years, or if rates rose, or if you didn't get an ideal associateship, there would be no way to even make ends meet. You would have to work your entire life just to pay loans and never make more than a modest salary even as a successful dentist. Not to mention that it would be extremely difficult to ever own a home or buy a practice with this type of debt. Could someone please explain the economics of this, without just saying what I usually read on this forum. By that, I mean the blind faith that NYU or UOP or Penn or USC or schools of that sort will just "work out". Studies have shown that even 100K in debt is a serious preclusive factor to home ownership or practice ownership, and can create heavy burdens on the new practitioner. Since I cannot imagine how someone could keep their debt even that low without major help from family or rare scholarships, could someone try to clear this mess up? Dental school seems like a financially suicidal investment to me, even with high salaries.
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- Thread starter FMLizard
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They wouldn't charge so much if they knew you couldn't pay it off. I guess since the demand is increasing and the supply is also decreasing, dental rates will go up and we'll be able to pay it off. (Finally used econ in life, now I can relax)
If you choose to consolidate your student loans into a single loan for 300K over the course of 30 years (which I?ve been told is possible), then your monthly loan payment would be $1610/month (assuming an average rate of 5%). So per year, your out of pocket payment would be $19320.
Yes---it?s very expensive, but if don?t forget that you can deduct student loan interest from your taxable income and if you?re making $150K per year, then you?ll still be way ahead of most American families.
Also, there are ways of paying for your tuition:
Military Health Profession Scholarship Program: Pays tuition and a monthly stipend of about $1200. Serve in the military for 1 year for each year of benefit.
National Health Scholarship Program: Pays your tuition in exchange for serving in an underserved community (not sure payback terms).
As for qualifying for Home loans, I'm not sure of all the factors that go into it--so you may be very right in assuming that carrying that kind of debt will hurt the amount of home you qualify for.
Yes---it?s very expensive, but if don?t forget that you can deduct student loan interest from your taxable income and if you?re making $150K per year, then you?ll still be way ahead of most American families.
Also, there are ways of paying for your tuition:
Military Health Profession Scholarship Program: Pays tuition and a monthly stipend of about $1200. Serve in the military for 1 year for each year of benefit.
National Health Scholarship Program: Pays your tuition in exchange for serving in an underserved community (not sure payback terms).
As for qualifying for Home loans, I'm not sure of all the factors that go into it--so you may be very right in assuming that carrying that kind of debt will hurt the amount of home you qualify for.
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There's a recent article in the front page of this issue named:
INCOME POTENTIAL OUTWEIGHS DEBT
Try to get your hands on this issue and this article will set you straight a bit about your concerns. If you're not an ASDA member yet, then join!
www.asdanet.org
INCOME POTENTIAL OUTWEIGHS DEBT
Try to get your hands on this issue and this article will set you straight a bit about your concerns. If you're not an ASDA member yet, then join!
www.asdanet.org
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If you examine the historical trends on dental education tuition as well as average net income for dentists over the years, you will see that the ratio between the two hasn't gone up substantially over the past 20 years. Assuming that there are no major shakeups in the field, the same trend should ensure that dentists will stay in business in the future. A lot of people argue that dentists' income levels will rise in response to the needs of the aging population/popularity of cosmetic procedures, etc. It seems that the key to a stress-free post-graduation life is to keep your personal expenses down and live as a student for a few years after graduation until your practice is established.
You can also find some reassurances by checking the following: dentists have a relatively low default rate on their student debt loads compared to those in, for example, Chiropractice. Also, consider the medical/dental situation: a large number of medical students enter primary care fields where the average net pay is similar to if not less that the average pay for a GP dentist. These students stay in school for an extra 4 years compared to dental students.
The prospect of paying back the loans should not keep you from pursuing your dream. I personally made sure that money is not my reason for pursuing dentistry -- I make a decent living right now in the IT/financial industry but will be applying to dental school this year. Good luck.
You can also find some reassurances by checking the following: dentists have a relatively low default rate on their student debt loads compared to those in, for example, Chiropractice. Also, consider the medical/dental situation: a large number of medical students enter primary care fields where the average net pay is similar to if not less that the average pay for a GP dentist. These students stay in school for an extra 4 years compared to dental students.
The prospect of paying back the loans should not keep you from pursuing your dream. I personally made sure that money is not my reason for pursuing dentistry -- I make a decent living right now in the IT/financial industry but will be applying to dental school this year. Good luck.
CoreyB - It is a little foolish to assume a constant rate of 5% over the next 30 years. Just because we currently have historically low interest rates does not mean that they will be that way for the next 30 years. However, long term consolidation does make sense due to inflation and the time value of money. For example, if a dentist graduating in 1973 came out with 50K in debt, which is similar to 250-300K today, their payments on a similar schedule would be around $350 per month. Yes, that was a lot back in 1973 for a new dentist, but during the past ten years, such a monthly payment is nothing. I think the burden will ease over the years, but those first few years are going to be very rough if you go to a private school or U of MN.
Yah-E - Wish I could join, but I am in pretty dire financial straits right now. Lets just say this...I go to the U and majored in MIS. I graduate on Sunday. Based on what you know about the skyrocketing tuition and the uselessness of a tech degree, you can see why I am financially screwed right now. Tuition increases the next three years here will be 14%, 16%, 14%. It has already risen by 40% during my four years here. Dental school is going to be inching past many of the private schools in the next few years. Explain to me how a state with one of the nation's highest per capita income levels and state tax rates can have zero money left to support the university, whereas states down South can darn near give education away without any income tax at all. I am seriously considering bailing out of this state to go anywhere that has a reasonable cost of education. I just don't want to have to wait a year to do so.
Yah-E - Wish I could join, but I am in pretty dire financial straits right now. Lets just say this...I go to the U and majored in MIS. I graduate on Sunday. Based on what you know about the skyrocketing tuition and the uselessness of a tech degree, you can see why I am financially screwed right now. Tuition increases the next three years here will be 14%, 16%, 14%. It has already risen by 40% during my four years here. Dental school is going to be inching past many of the private schools in the next few years. Explain to me how a state with one of the nation's highest per capita income levels and state tax rates can have zero money left to support the university, whereas states down South can darn near give education away without any income tax at all. I am seriously considering bailing out of this state to go anywhere that has a reasonable cost of education. I just don't want to have to wait a year to do so.
Hi, let's be positive! have a positive outlook, shall we?
Uselessness of a tech degree? well, there are many other tech degree holders out there, they manage some how, right? It can be a bit ..... offensive to other tech degree holders if you say it is useless, just be positive, find a job or an area of work that is available to you based on your educational background...make the most of it.
As for tuition increase, it happens every where. In California, there is a state budget crisis, and the educational system is getting major cuts in every single area of education, including higher education, and the fees are jumping and students are not happy, but considering the economy and the budget crisis, we all have to try to manage.
As for your thoughts on the tuition prices for dental students, Well, hundreds of other students manage, so it's not a dead end tunnel all these dental students are getting themselves into.
Schools provide counseling and lots of info regarding financing the dental education, so perhaps maybe if you can do a bit more research on the subject, it will help clear up this matter, because by posting here and asking some questions, and we all cannot answer all of your questions and cover all the grounds, it can get even more confusing. Go directly to the source, such as the dental school's financial aid offices and you will get more info and a clearer picture.
There are people who do not want to go into this field bc of the financial burden/strain within the next 10 or 20 years of their lives or maybe even longer, like 30 years to pay off those loans!, just like many other careers or educational investments, people have to pick and decide the cost and the benefits of every career, not just in terms of money, but also in terms of the time investment, such as whether they can have a certain career and also raise 5 kids and maintain 2 ranches in Montana and do missions for 5 months each year around the world, etc.
So my point is that every educational/career goal has different investments that a person has to evaluate for himself and herself and decide whether the investment is something worth doing for that particular person,
Uselessness of a tech degree? well, there are many other tech degree holders out there, they manage some how, right? It can be a bit ..... offensive to other tech degree holders if you say it is useless, just be positive, find a job or an area of work that is available to you based on your educational background...make the most of it.
As for tuition increase, it happens every where. In California, there is a state budget crisis, and the educational system is getting major cuts in every single area of education, including higher education, and the fees are jumping and students are not happy, but considering the economy and the budget crisis, we all have to try to manage.
As for your thoughts on the tuition prices for dental students, Well, hundreds of other students manage, so it's not a dead end tunnel all these dental students are getting themselves into.
Schools provide counseling and lots of info regarding financing the dental education, so perhaps maybe if you can do a bit more research on the subject, it will help clear up this matter, because by posting here and asking some questions, and we all cannot answer all of your questions and cover all the grounds, it can get even more confusing. Go directly to the source, such as the dental school's financial aid offices and you will get more info and a clearer picture.
There are people who do not want to go into this field bc of the financial burden/strain within the next 10 or 20 years of their lives or maybe even longer, like 30 years to pay off those loans!, just like many other careers or educational investments, people have to pick and decide the cost and the benefits of every career, not just in terms of money, but also in terms of the time investment, such as whether they can have a certain career and also raise 5 kids and maintain 2 ranches in Montana and do missions for 5 months each year around the world, etc.
So my point is that every educational/career goal has different investments that a person has to evaluate for himself and herself and decide whether the investment is something worth doing for that particular person,
A good chunk of our loans will be from Federal loan (38K/yr for now). And I just read that Fed loan has to be paid in full within 10yrs. So, do not count 30yrs when u calculate your repayment thing. Have fun guys.
hello:
I knew someone who just had an exit interview after finishing dental school. With 250,000 dolloars loan at current interest rate, the monthly payment is about 2500. After ten years, the monthly payment will be around 1000 dollars. However, as I was told, the interest rate right now is the lowest ever. Two years ago, it was 10% which meant the student with the same amount of loan would have to pay about 3,000 a month. Don't worry, it is worth it.
I knew someone who just had an exit interview after finishing dental school. With 250,000 dolloars loan at current interest rate, the monthly payment is about 2500. After ten years, the monthly payment will be around 1000 dollars. However, as I was told, the interest rate right now is the lowest ever. Two years ago, it was 10% which meant the student with the same amount of loan would have to pay about 3,000 a month. Don't worry, it is worth it.
Well, I just sat down with my finance professor (at least I got something worthwhile from my time in this business school), and he we discussed the economics of a dental education at length. Yes, Tinkerbell, you can consolidate down up to 30 years. Many companies will do this, most notably Sallie Mae's SMART LOAN. Check their website for details. Please review my numbers and see what you think. These are geared toward my tentative career plans at this point, your mileage may vary.
We start with a salary of 100K, for simplicity's sake. This may be a tad optimistic in today's money, but by the time many of us begin practice, inflation will have brought it to an average salary for a new associate. This nets out to around 65K in Minnesota, a very high tax state, or around 71K in a low tax state such as Florida, at 2003 tax rates. I used multiple calculators online to arrive at this net amount. This also assumes no deductions, even though the new dentist will certainly deduct loan payments and interest and other applicable writeoffs.
Let's also assume a debt of 250K, not at all unrealistic if at a private school or if carrying undergrad debt. Amortized at a more realistic rate of 7%, over 30 years, we get a monthly payment of $1,663, or approximately 20,000 per annum.
Subtracting the 20K from the 65K in Minnesota yields a net income after loan repayment of 45K. This is equal to a salary with no loans of around 68K in MN. This is equivalent to a pretty solid business job or other health profession career, and provides a good living wage for a single person, enough to afford a nice apartment and a reasonably nice car.
If you add in a spouse, this picture improves. Throw out the idea of marrying rich, and lets use a figure of 50K for their salary. This can be earned as a nurse, accountant, mid-level manager, or even your hygenist! Remember, as highly educated and relatively wealthy professionals, we should be pretty desirable to the opposite sex and can be a little picky. Your combined income of 150K breaks down to a net of 98K in the tax hell of MN with no non-standard deductions, which is a worst case tax scenario. Take out the 20K in loans, and you are left with 78K. A 78K shared net income with no children in your late twenties is darn good! At this financial level, a couple could afford a home of at least 300K and two 25K+ cars, and be saving a good amount for the future.
Bear in mind that this is all a (reasonably and forseeably) worst case scenario. After your associateship, upon entry to private practice ownership, your income will increase even more. Even a modest increase to 130K (below average) as a practice owner will give plenty of room to ratchet up the standard of living even more. Also, keep in mind the time value of money and inflation. A DDS may have had a "monster debt" of 50K back in the mid 70s from a private school, and would have financed it over 30 years. Payments of $340 per month back then would have looked staggering, but are now laughable on his mature salary of approximately 150K. Another way to think of this whole thing is this. Say the actual cost of a 250K loan at 7% over 30 years is 600K. Add in the opportunity cost of not working for four years at a young, entry level job, to reach 750K. Divide this over a working life of 35 years. The answer is around 22K per year. If you make an average of 150K for the life of your career (and you WILL be making more in 2030), ask yourself this. Could you have found something else stable and legal that would have paid you 128K for 35 years? Most people, even in the highest paying fields, never will.
My only worry is that something would happen that would make earning enough money impossible, such as an illness or injury, death, or a major shift in the dental economic landscape, such as widespread and oppressive managed care, a major innovation that decreased demand, or a large increase in dental school graduates.
Also, in my case, I intend to apply for the military scholarships (I already have a military background), and will likely practice in a rural area with a low cost of living, since that is where I grew up and would like to return to raise a family. I can understand how USC is possible now. Full speed ahead!
Sources:
http://www.paycheckcity.com/coadp/netpaycalculator.asp
Register for it for free, make up a company.
http://www.salliemae.com/tools/calculators/consolidation/repay1.html
Loan Consolidation Calculator
We start with a salary of 100K, for simplicity's sake. This may be a tad optimistic in today's money, but by the time many of us begin practice, inflation will have brought it to an average salary for a new associate. This nets out to around 65K in Minnesota, a very high tax state, or around 71K in a low tax state such as Florida, at 2003 tax rates. I used multiple calculators online to arrive at this net amount. This also assumes no deductions, even though the new dentist will certainly deduct loan payments and interest and other applicable writeoffs.
Let's also assume a debt of 250K, not at all unrealistic if at a private school or if carrying undergrad debt. Amortized at a more realistic rate of 7%, over 30 years, we get a monthly payment of $1,663, or approximately 20,000 per annum.
Subtracting the 20K from the 65K in Minnesota yields a net income after loan repayment of 45K. This is equal to a salary with no loans of around 68K in MN. This is equivalent to a pretty solid business job or other health profession career, and provides a good living wage for a single person, enough to afford a nice apartment and a reasonably nice car.
If you add in a spouse, this picture improves. Throw out the idea of marrying rich, and lets use a figure of 50K for their salary. This can be earned as a nurse, accountant, mid-level manager, or even your hygenist! Remember, as highly educated and relatively wealthy professionals, we should be pretty desirable to the opposite sex and can be a little picky. Your combined income of 150K breaks down to a net of 98K in the tax hell of MN with no non-standard deductions, which is a worst case tax scenario. Take out the 20K in loans, and you are left with 78K. A 78K shared net income with no children in your late twenties is darn good! At this financial level, a couple could afford a home of at least 300K and two 25K+ cars, and be saving a good amount for the future.
Bear in mind that this is all a (reasonably and forseeably) worst case scenario. After your associateship, upon entry to private practice ownership, your income will increase even more. Even a modest increase to 130K (below average) as a practice owner will give plenty of room to ratchet up the standard of living even more. Also, keep in mind the time value of money and inflation. A DDS may have had a "monster debt" of 50K back in the mid 70s from a private school, and would have financed it over 30 years. Payments of $340 per month back then would have looked staggering, but are now laughable on his mature salary of approximately 150K. Another way to think of this whole thing is this. Say the actual cost of a 250K loan at 7% over 30 years is 600K. Add in the opportunity cost of not working for four years at a young, entry level job, to reach 750K. Divide this over a working life of 35 years. The answer is around 22K per year. If you make an average of 150K for the life of your career (and you WILL be making more in 2030), ask yourself this. Could you have found something else stable and legal that would have paid you 128K for 35 years? Most people, even in the highest paying fields, never will.
My only worry is that something would happen that would make earning enough money impossible, such as an illness or injury, death, or a major shift in the dental economic landscape, such as widespread and oppressive managed care, a major innovation that decreased demand, or a large increase in dental school graduates.
Also, in my case, I intend to apply for the military scholarships (I already have a military background), and will likely practice in a rural area with a low cost of living, since that is where I grew up and would like to return to raise a family. I can understand how USC is possible now. Full speed ahead!
Sources:
http://www.paycheckcity.com/coadp/netpaycalculator.asp
Register for it for free, make up a company.
http://www.salliemae.com/tools/calculators/consolidation/repay1.html
Loan Consolidation Calculator
Not to start a civil war here, but I am a carpet bagger in TN. In MI we had a 6% sales tax, income tax, & property tax. In TN we pay 9.25 % sales tax and there is no income tax (yes prop tax for home owners). The cost at U of TN is dwarfed by the cost at U of MI and the midwest. I will get out w/less than $140,000 debt at current rates and last year they hiked up tuition 20% (if I recall correctly)
Matt
Matt
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You're complaining about Minnesota?
Come over to NYC and your 100K equals 60K.
Come over to NYC and your 100K equals 60K.
DATMATT - I am a native yooper too, so I know what you mean. At least they are lowering the state income tax each year until it phases out...by 2050!
Pasha
Thanks for your PM, i tried to reply but your box is full, thanks for the info you sent me regarding BU loans
Thanks for your PM, i tried to reply but your box is full, thanks for the info you sent me regarding BU loans
FMlizard, we can consolidate loan, but only one time right?
And who will give us a cheaper interest rate than the Fed educational loan?
Also, to remind you guys, by the time we're done with dental school, residency etc....We are about to get married, and have kids, and we need savings for our own retirement, and saving for our kids college fund. Those cost at least 10K/yr. I remember when I worked, I was allowed to contribute 10K/yr, but I could never make that maximum number. Now the Fed also increases the IRA allowance, with inflation increases with time. We also need to increase our retirement fund. And if we are just like any average American, we need 20 working years to contribute to all of those funds. Assuming we can work for 30yrs.....I don't really know how do the school debt (for private school), private office debt, mortgage, car, retirement fund, college fund, IRA all fit into assuming 120K income. It's a big headache.
And who will give us a cheaper interest rate than the Fed educational loan?
Also, to remind you guys, by the time we're done with dental school, residency etc....We are about to get married, and have kids, and we need savings for our own retirement, and saving for our kids college fund. Those cost at least 10K/yr. I remember when I worked, I was allowed to contribute 10K/yr, but I could never make that maximum number. Now the Fed also increases the IRA allowance, with inflation increases with time. We also need to increase our retirement fund. And if we are just like any average American, we need 20 working years to contribute to all of those funds. Assuming we can work for 30yrs.....I don't really know how do the school debt (for private school), private office debt, mortgage, car, retirement fund, college fund, IRA all fit into assuming 120K income. It's a big headache.
Ask yourselves how doctors do it? They endure the same debt but then they can't pay it off until at least 3 years after school. And anyone who specializes in medicine spends an additional 5-8 years after school. And many specialize in medicine. It's not a rare thing like it is dentistry.
At least many dentists realistically earn 100K as an associate immediately after school. And if you eventually purchase a practice, you can expect to net at least 155K. That's the national average according to the ADA. But I think you would have to be in a very saturated area or lack a personality to not net at least 200K with owning your own practice at some poing in your practice. I know plenty of general dentists who net 200-300K in their own practice. None of them live in California though. 🙂
Also consider the favorable economic factors favoring dentistry. Many are about to retire, the baby boomers are going to carry their original teeth longer which means more patients. Also consider the growing population in relation to the relatively few dentists produced every year. Only 4000 total dentists graduate from dental school each year. That's not very many. 100,000 MBA graduate each year and nearly 20,0000 doctors graduate each year. Approximately, 40,000 lawyers graduate each year. More dental schools would open up if the cost of educating dentists wasn't so expensive. It's much easier setting up a medical school than it is establishing a dental school. That's why many closed in the past decade because schools were losing money.
Trust me man, dentists aren't the only ones who endure astronomical debt. Physicians have it way worse than we do. And many law students, pharmacy students and other health care fields endure high debt as well. I know it can be scary but your education does pay for itself. Just make sure you can foresee yourself enjoying dentistry. Because the only thing that will really force you to quit dentistry will be a lack of passion. The money is there.
At least many dentists realistically earn 100K as an associate immediately after school. And if you eventually purchase a practice, you can expect to net at least 155K. That's the national average according to the ADA. But I think you would have to be in a very saturated area or lack a personality to not net at least 200K with owning your own practice at some poing in your practice. I know plenty of general dentists who net 200-300K in their own practice. None of them live in California though. 🙂
Also consider the favorable economic factors favoring dentistry. Many are about to retire, the baby boomers are going to carry their original teeth longer which means more patients. Also consider the growing population in relation to the relatively few dentists produced every year. Only 4000 total dentists graduate from dental school each year. That's not very many. 100,000 MBA graduate each year and nearly 20,0000 doctors graduate each year. Approximately, 40,000 lawyers graduate each year. More dental schools would open up if the cost of educating dentists wasn't so expensive. It's much easier setting up a medical school than it is establishing a dental school. That's why many closed in the past decade because schools were losing money.
Trust me man, dentists aren't the only ones who endure astronomical debt. Physicians have it way worse than we do. And many law students, pharmacy students and other health care fields endure high debt as well. I know it can be scary but your education does pay for itself. Just make sure you can foresee yourself enjoying dentistry. Because the only thing that will really force you to quit dentistry will be a lack of passion. The money is there.
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- Dentist
FMLizard, this is a great post. (I also PM'd you) I am struggling with the whole $$ issue as well. I was just accepted to USC (my first choice) last week and I need to decide if I should go to L.A. or stay in MN. Having lived in MN all of my life, I am ready for a change and have always wanted to move out to Cal. My USC acceptance seems like the golden opportunity I've been waiting for but the ASTRONOMICAL cost is making me a bit hesitant.
One of my best friend is currently a dentist and he thinks I'm crazy for wanting to go to USC and take on 300K in debt. He came out with 100K in debt and after paying for student loans, malpractice insurance, house and car payments every month, he saids he has barely any thing left. 🙁
He's also under the impression that if you go to UofMN dental, it's almost impossible to get your liscence out in Cal. and move out there. (Far more difficult exam, if you don't pass you have to wait two years, flying patients to Cali, etc.) Any truth to this??
Thanks!
One of my best friend is currently a dentist and he thinks I'm crazy for wanting to go to USC and take on 300K in debt. He came out with 100K in debt and after paying for student loans, malpractice insurance, house and car payments every month, he saids he has barely any thing left. 🙁
He's also under the impression that if you go to UofMN dental, it's almost impossible to get your liscence out in Cal. and move out there. (Far more difficult exam, if you don't pass you have to wait two years, flying patients to Cali, etc.) Any truth to this??
Thanks!
I think that, economics aside, one of the things that really has me fired up about dentistry is this. Of the three dentists in my town that my family knows, including the one that I go to (its a small town!), all three have children that have entered college in the past 3-5 years. All three have sons that are pre-dental. I think that is an excellent testimony to the quality of life and professional satisfaction of dentists. If dentists had twice the suicide rate and divorce rate (which would equal 100% 🙄 ) and were so unhappy, would their sons all want to do it? It means that the child has seen a positive image of the profession from a father that has been successful, and the father has enjoyed his career enough to recommend it to his son. I won't even get into the houses and such that they have... It also allows me to have a successful career in a small rural town, which is where I intend to live once again once I reach 40 or so. There are not very many opportunities in places like these for those outside of the health professions. If I stay in the corporate world, I may never be able to leave the city and move back out to the wilderness (where the demand for my services will be higher anyway!)
Hey Jyaki
Coming from a Midwestern state that now lives out west, I can empathize. But I too may have to go back to the midwest to attend dental school to save money.
I will say this, I have heard really bad things about USC. Students are not happy there. In general, I have been told the USC experience is atrocious. Definitely talk to some people. I enjoy LA and I considered USC but I heard that students are not happy there. I heard this from more than one a few sources.
I would go to Minn in a heart beat. you can always move to CA later if you really want to. And with the money would have saved going to Minn. you could use that as a downpayment for your house in LA. 🙂 Cheers
Coming from a Midwestern state that now lives out west, I can empathize. But I too may have to go back to the midwest to attend dental school to save money.
I will say this, I have heard really bad things about USC. Students are not happy there. In general, I have been told the USC experience is atrocious. Definitely talk to some people. I enjoy LA and I considered USC but I heard that students are not happy there. I heard this from more than one a few sources.
I would go to Minn in a heart beat. you can always move to CA later if you really want to. And with the money would have saved going to Minn. you could use that as a downpayment for your house in LA. 🙂 Cheers
FM
You should be psyched. Dentists and other health care workers can earn an insane salary in small towns. I have heard stories of rural dentists netting close to 1 million dollars. Yeah, it's insane. I for sure wouldn't worry about money if you are willing to settle in a small town. I know that our small town dentists net in upwards of 300K
You should be psyched. Dentists and other health care workers can earn an insane salary in small towns. I have heard stories of rural dentists netting close to 1 million dollars. Yeah, it's insane. I for sure wouldn't worry about money if you are willing to settle in a small town. I know that our small town dentists net in upwards of 300K
one quick comment about schools in general,
if you want to know how current students at a particular school feel about the program, talk to as many students at that school as you can, to get a better picture. Sometimes a friend of a friend of a friend of someone who posts on SDN and this person doesn't go to that particular school, well, it's not very accurate.
Every school has good and bad sides.
if you want to know how current students at a particular school feel about the program, talk to as many students at that school as you can, to get a better picture. Sometimes a friend of a friend of a friend of someone who posts on SDN and this person doesn't go to that particular school, well, it's not very accurate.
Every school has good and bad sides.
Well, since every one is citing examples, here goes:
An acquaintance (dentist) of ours who went to BU came back to CA, passed the CA boards, but was having a bit of a hard time getting a job. After having tried quite a bit, he decided to just move to Boston and practice around there. However, he changed his mind at the last minute and decided to try opening his own practice in CA since he really did not want to leave CA. To make the story short, he basically opened up a brand new practice and advertised to get totally new patients (it's much easier when you are taking over an established practice). His practice is going so well that within two years he has managed to buy a $700K house, and his wife who was an established lawyer does not work anymore!!! You figure his salary!
An acquaintance (dentist) of ours who went to BU came back to CA, passed the CA boards, but was having a bit of a hard time getting a job. After having tried quite a bit, he decided to just move to Boston and practice around there. However, he changed his mind at the last minute and decided to try opening his own practice in CA since he really did not want to leave CA. To make the story short, he basically opened up a brand new practice and advertised to get totally new patients (it's much easier when you are taking over an established practice). His practice is going so well that within two years he has managed to buy a $700K house, and his wife who was an established lawyer does not work anymore!!! You figure his salary!
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Wow, that's a gutsy move. I'm glad it paid off for him.
Any ideas on how difficult it is to pass the CA boards coming from a different state? Also, what part of CA did he open his practice?
Thanks!
Any ideas on how difficult it is to pass the CA boards coming from a different state? Also, what part of CA did he open his practice?
Thanks!
This guy's practice is in Walnut Creek, CA. I must add though that this guy is smart, hard-working, and self-confident. He had a very good experience at BU and his cousin is now attending BU as well.
From one of my real good friend (UOP graduate), NV boards are the toughest in the country to pass. The second toughest are the CA boards.
From one of my real good friend (UOP graduate), NV boards are the toughest in the country to pass. The second toughest are the CA boards.
I just finished my first year at the U of MN. To tell you the truth I was worried about the loans at first. But once you realize that everyone around you is in the same boat you don't worry as much. If you are really worried about be able to pay back the loan, move to rural North Dakota or Sout Dakota. The North Dakota Dental Assc. camr and talked to us and the three dentist that where there all said that right out of school if you don't take home 150,000 your doing something wrong. To get our attention one of the dentist actually told us his income his practice grossed 1.3 million and he had 60% overhead so do the math thats a pretty penny. The amount of debt should not deter anyone from going to dental school. My wife(incoming frist year dental) are going to be about 250,000 -300,000 in debt after we garduate, we just think of it as an investment.
Minnesota hats off to thee! We have quite a gang up in here, considering not that many Minnesotans apply to D-School every year. Must be the crap weather that keeps us inside on SDN.
This news about rural practice is most excellent! I thought that I would make a little less in a rural area, but would end up a little ahead after cost of living adjustment. Really, I do want to practice in a rural area, for several reasons. Altruistically, I know it is where I am most needed and can do the most good. Financially, I know it is where I can have the most patients, elude managed care the easiest, and have lower overhead. Personally, I see my long-term future (after age 40 or so), with a big log cabin and a family living on on a lake up north, and it is highly unlikely that I will ever realize this dream in the corporate world or the military, which is where I was before. Rural practice isn't a sacrifice for me, its a career goal, though not probably right when I leave school.
On this note, which dental schools emphasize rural care in their admissions/curriculum?
This news about rural practice is most excellent! I thought that I would make a little less in a rural area, but would end up a little ahead after cost of living adjustment. Really, I do want to practice in a rural area, for several reasons. Altruistically, I know it is where I am most needed and can do the most good. Financially, I know it is where I can have the most patients, elude managed care the easiest, and have lower overhead. Personally, I see my long-term future (after age 40 or so), with a big log cabin and a family living on on a lake up north, and it is highly unlikely that I will ever realize this dream in the corporate world or the military, which is where I was before. Rural practice isn't a sacrifice for me, its a career goal, though not probably right when I leave school.
On this note, which dental schools emphasize rural care in their admissions/curriculum?
I want to practice in Alaska, paying less tax, ppl in Alaska are also nice. Or practice in Eureka, CA, and live in Oregon, shop in Oregon to pay no tax.....
There are lots of way to go if you are willing to look around. Don't lose hope yet when you look at your financial aid statement.
There are lots of way to go if you are willing to look around. Don't lose hope yet when you look at your financial aid statement.
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"I don't worry about nothing 'cause worrying's a waste of my
time"
---------Axl Rose from the song "Mr. Brownstone"
Guns 'n Roses.
time"
---------Axl Rose from the song "Mr. Brownstone"
Guns 'n Roses.
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You can cosolidate ALL your Federal loans at rates that are roughly 2.7% right now. ANd you have 30 years to pay them off (or shorter if you want to make bigger payments), but this interest rate is FIXED for all 30 years...... In 2006, I think the rate will change from the current variable rate (it was 8% 2 years ago!!!) to a fixed of about 6% and you will NOT be able to consolidate at such low rates we have now... Reply if you have any questions about these loans...
-Mike
Tufts DMD 2003
-Mike
Tufts DMD 2003
Mike,
So, can we consolidate our loans in 2005 while we're still in school, before the new law kicks in? That fix rate is outrageous.
Thnx
So, can we consolidate our loans in 2005 while we're still in school, before the new law kicks in? That fix rate is outrageous.
Thnx
