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At what point does someone say, "Caribbean, here I come!!"?
Just wondering... as far as MCAT/ GPA/ etc...
Just wondering... as far as MCAT/ GPA/ etc...
At what point does someone say, "Caribbean, here I come!!"?
- Thread starter fun8stuff
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When you get rejected from Meharry or St. Christopher College of Medicine.
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Is St. Christopher the one with the Pizza Hut?
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The Caribbean becomes a serious option when you get a sub-20 MCAT score, I would imagine. Maybe even sub-24.
Not that it should be the only option, but it definitely becomes a bigger one.
I would view the Caribbean only as the last possible option - too many disadvantages later in life to being an IMG
Rock Me Amadeus
Not that it should be the only option, but it definitely becomes a bigger one.
I would view the Caribbean only as the last possible option - too many disadvantages later in life to being an IMG
Rock Me Amadeus
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when you unconsciously start checking which suntan lotions are the best....
mcat prolly lower 20s and gpa under 3.0
but like someone said... go DO before you think about that. I personally think there are many great DO schools like MSU's DO program....
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Caribbeans become an option when..
a) You can't wait another year
b) Under 20, Under 3.0, and probably sub-par EC's and LORs (one or the other by itself by no mean precludes you from admissions to a US medschool)
c) You want a tan but not a Hawaii resident
a) You can't wait another year
b) Under 20, Under 3.0, and probably sub-par EC's and LORs (one or the other by itself by no mean precludes you from admissions to a US medschool)
c) You want a tan but not a Hawaii resident
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What's the point if anyone can get into a Caribbean med school and they can't practice with a degree from there? Is it just so they can get the title and call themselves doctors?
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Depends on which school really. Ross, AUC, and SGU are accredited in all 50 states and by most indications those schools produce decent and good doctors. I believe one student coming from Ross scored like in the top percentile on the USMLE. The reputable Carib schools are actually rather USMLE orientated and Ross students do clinical in the states.
But it certainly is a risk. Places like Ross will accept underqualified students, take their money and kick their butt out if they can't hack it. So the risk is not getting a degree and not practicing, the risk is going over there when you're not ready and flushing money down the toilet.
Another disadvantage of going to a foreign medical school: later in life working with ignorant physicians who don't consider FMG's to be as equal to USMG physicians.
There are many FMG's in this country who do their residency in the U.S. and are very good doctors. I'm not saying that every FMG is going to be a good doctor. The ones that do well in med school and on the USMLE should not be considered as just people who want the "MD" next to their name. After all, these are the people who go to a different country in order to become a doctor and help people.
Some people don't do well in college because they have other things in their life that require a lot of time and energy and school work is not their main priority at the end of the day. Just because they end up with a 2.8 does not mean they are not capable of doing well in med school. Personally, if you do well at any med school and get a good score on both parts of the USMLE then you deserve to get a residency in the U.S. We all know that this country could use some more physicians.
However, if you really struggle with science classes and get C's after studying really hard then maybe you should reconsider your future plans of becoming a physician. If you can't get get a B in Biology 1 then it will most likely turn out that you will not be able to handle the more advanced science courses in med school.
There are many FMG's in this country who do their residency in the U.S. and are very good doctors. I'm not saying that every FMG is going to be a good doctor. The ones that do well in med school and on the USMLE should not be considered as just people who want the "MD" next to their name. After all, these are the people who go to a different country in order to become a doctor and help people.
Some people don't do well in college because they have other things in their life that require a lot of time and energy and school work is not their main priority at the end of the day. Just because they end up with a 2.8 does not mean they are not capable of doing well in med school. Personally, if you do well at any med school and get a good score on both parts of the USMLE then you deserve to get a residency in the U.S. We all know that this country could use some more physicians.
However, if you really struggle with science classes and get C's after studying really hard then maybe you should reconsider your future plans of becoming a physician. If you can't get get a B in Biology 1 then it will most likely turn out that you will not be able to handle the more advanced science courses in med school.
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I know of two doctors who are doing their residencies at Northshore in Manhasset, N.Y. (Voted #1 Hospital in the U.S)
One went to SGU, and the other went to Harvard.
One went to SGU, and the other went to Harvard.
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You read my mind. I'm surprised that most of the people on here must have taken statistics at some point and yet many people resort to naming one example to make a point. It is the equivalent of trying to prove that the likelihood of dying in a horrible accident is very high if you have red hair by using the evidence: "I know someone with red hair that died in a horrible accident." Naming one example proves nothing.
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When you've taken the MCAT two or three times and it is still the thing holding you back (below say 27??).
and/or
When you have a bad GPA (below 3.25 w no 'hurdles' you've had to overcome)
If you can't seem to find or don't want to go into any good post bac programs.
and most importantly,
When you know the field you want to enter is not competitive.
What?? I hardly think a 3.25 and a 27 binds you to a carribean education. You still have a good shot at D.O.
To me, you should go carribean when you're not longer willing to put in the effort to get into a US medical school. If you can get in a caribbean school, then you have the basics of what it takes to get in a US medical schoool. The question is whether or not you want to spend a few more years taking classes, researching, volunteering, etc. Its really a personal decision more than anything.
The caribbean schools may be diploma mills, but they still have SOME standards.
To me, you should go carribean when you're not longer willing to put in the effort to get into a US medical school. If you can get in a caribbean school, then you have the basics of what it takes to get in a US medical schoool. The question is whether or not you want to spend a few more years taking classes, researching, volunteering, etc. Its really a personal decision more than anything.
The caribbean schools may be diploma mills, but they still have SOME standards.
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I have never heard this fact. I beleive that Cleveland clinic, MGH, Brigham & Womens, Mayo, Hopkins and Barnes Jewish are the routine top hospitals.
I CALL SHENANIGANS ON VICTORYNJEBUS!!!!!!!!
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Honestly...I think there are LOTS of resources available to help students with lower stats get into medical school. The Georgetown SMP program is a good example of this. In addition, students with <3.0 GPAs can always design their own postbacc programs and just sign up for classes at their local state university and put in more effort to get the As they need to bring their GPA up. If you have a <3.0 BCPM GPA...I don't think it's the end for you. You just need to rock the MCATs (probably 33+ score) and you need to take classes to raise that GPA back over 3.0. I know people who have been admitted to American med schools (from my school) with Cs in organic chemistry. One sub-B grade will not end your dreams of becoming an MD...however, it may postpone them a bit and require you to pick yourself up by the bootstraps and work even harder. Honestly, I think it's an issue of how many years are you willing to spend in between college and med school...getting your GPA up (with postbacc classes) and studying for the MCATs could take up to 2 years after you get your bachelor's degree. It's just an issue of whether you think it's all worth it or not.
There are a lot more than a few successful graduates of SGU. Have you seen SGU's match list? You are going to be practicing alongside many of these graduates as residents and attendings at many U.S. medical schools. I noticed at least three at NYMC.
http://www.sgu.edu/nhome.nsf/webcontent/15EBD7EF222F054E85256D1700751A8F?OpenDocument&top=med
considering the average Georgetown SMP student has a 3.3 and a 29 MCAT, and 85% eventually matriculate into US Allopathic medical schools, I'd say that there is always a good chance for people to stay in the states.
The caribbean isnt a terrible choice. As many people will point out, there are ample opportunities to achieve great success there, but the bottom line is none of us would chose to go international if we didtn have to, and it really comes down to how important it is to stay in the US, and how much time you're willing to put in. With my stats, I probably couldve gone international right out of college, but I chose to put in the time, and now I'm going to go to a GREAT allopathic school. It's really just a personal decision (when it comes down to what to choose)
The caribbean isnt a terrible choice. As many people will point out, there are ample opportunities to achieve great success there, but the bottom line is none of us would chose to go international if we didtn have to, and it really comes down to how important it is to stay in the US, and how much time you're willing to put in. With my stats, I probably couldve gone international right out of college, but I chose to put in the time, and now I'm going to go to a GREAT allopathic school. It's really just a personal decision (when it comes down to what to choose)
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If success=graduation, then you are absolutely right. Otherwise...
That match list is average at best, btw.
I sure hope that you don't want to tell me that someone in the caribbean actually picked the school over a US allo slot. If people in the caribbean want to engage in self-deception by saying that their school is not "that bad" or "ok", such is their prerogative. AFAIK, Ross only started requiring the MCAT this year.
You mention that there are alot of carribean-educated attendings in some US programs? Great, I'll be sure to avoid those places when applying for residency.
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there is no definitive point. It depends on you and you only. I know a person who got a 4-5-7 on the MCAT with a 2.18 GPA and couldn't stop the rush of acceptances in the mail... Keep the dream alive!
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wow they have a lot of students in one class
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Sometimes, I wonder why certain threads are longer than they should be. Exmike really closed the book on this argument, which is why I think it merits reading again:
"What?? I hardly think a 3.25 and a 27 binds you to a carribean education. You still have a good shot at D.O.
To me, you should go carribean when you're not longer willing to put in the effort to get into a US medical school. If you can get in a caribbean school, then you have the basics of what it takes to get in a US medical schoool. The question is whether or not you want to spend a few more years taking classes, researching, volunteering, etc. Its really a personal decision more than anything.
The caribbean schools may be diploma mills, but they still have SOME standards."
Amen.
"What?? I hardly think a 3.25 and a 27 binds you to a carribean education. You still have a good shot at D.O.
To me, you should go carribean when you're not longer willing to put in the effort to get into a US medical school. If you can get in a caribbean school, then you have the basics of what it takes to get in a US medical schoool. The question is whether or not you want to spend a few more years taking classes, researching, volunteering, etc. Its really a personal decision more than anything.
The caribbean schools may be diploma mills, but they still have SOME standards."
Amen.
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Originally posted by woolie
With all due respect to the poster - I don't understand how these stats could get someone accepted. Did I miss something?
I don't either? But a good assumption would be the applicants background being disadvantaged. It shouldn't be a shock to anyone if you rountinely examine your career center statistical database. You would be surprised.
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16846
I have to disagree with a number of points that have been made on this thread regarding IMG's. I was born and raised in the USA, have a 3.7+ Undergrad GPA (3.75 BCPM), 3.9+ Grad GPA (3.8+ BCPM), 29(O) on the MCAT's (Unbalanced - 9V/9PS/11BS), 3 research projects/2 publications, 2 years+ ER student volunteer experience (30+ hours/week), Excellent Academic/Non-Academic LOR's, and I only applied to one European medical school.
If my stats are compared to that of the average American medical student, it is a strong possibility that I could have been a US Allopathic Medical Students; however I chose not to do this.
I know some people might read this and say/think/post "Are you mentally ill/handicapped? That was a really dumb choice" However there are many factors that came into play concerning my decision:
1) I have family here in Europe
2) I wanted a chance to live in/experience a different culture. My definition of experience is to live in/participate in a number of activities for a number of years.
3) I don't believe that Basic Sciences/Clinical Rotations/"The Match"/Residency as a US Allopathic Medical Student would have allowed me a sufficient opportunity to do 2)
4) I want a rather non-competitive specialty (Psychiatry)
5) I would prefer to practice in a suburban/semi-rural area
If you put this all together, then being an IMG will have little or no impact on my ability to function as a Physician in the capacity which I am interested.
I realize that I am the exception rather than the rule, but everyone needs to understand that people choose to be IMG's for a number of reasons besides the ones listed in previous messages. Blanket statements, especially ignorant or misleading ones, do not do us or our intended profession justice.
-Mike
If my stats are compared to that of the average American medical student, it is a strong possibility that I could have been a US Allopathic Medical Students; however I chose not to do this.
I know some people might read this and say/think/post "Are you mentally ill/handicapped? That was a really dumb choice" However there are many factors that came into play concerning my decision:
1) I have family here in Europe
2) I wanted a chance to live in/experience a different culture. My definition of experience is to live in/participate in a number of activities for a number of years.
3) I don't believe that Basic Sciences/Clinical Rotations/"The Match"/Residency as a US Allopathic Medical Student would have allowed me a sufficient opportunity to do 2)
4) I want a rather non-competitive specialty (Psychiatry)
5) I would prefer to practice in a suburban/semi-rural area
If you put this all together, then being an IMG will have little or no impact on my ability to function as a Physician in the capacity which I am interested.
I realize that I am the exception rather than the rule, but everyone needs to understand that people choose to be IMG's for a number of reasons besides the ones listed in previous messages. Blanket statements, especially ignorant or misleading ones, do not do us or our intended profession justice.
-Mike
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Common misunderstanding on your part: European schools != carribean. Totally different creatures. Re-check the thread title.
Carribean schools were set up for the rejects of the American system. European schools were set up for european doctors
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idq1i,
You're pretty hot headed coming from a not so hot med school. Carib med schools are set up for US rejects? i often hear that NYMC was set up for kids with fat wallets and <3.5 GPA, <31 MCAT, and "top choice" rejects. bottom line...chill...your school ain't all that for you to be bashing anyone.
You're pretty hot headed coming from a not so hot med school. Carib med schools are set up for US rejects? i often hear that NYMC was set up for kids with fat wallets and <3.5 GPA, <31 MCAT, and "top choice" rejects. bottom line...chill...your school ain't all that for you to be bashing anyone.
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Why don't you finish taking your bio101 and orgo and the MCAT before passing judgment on quality of medical schools.
No matter what you think of my school or how baseless your opinion may be, it wasn't set up to accomodate sub-par applicants from the US
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I think that the point that idq1i was trying to make is that European schools are designed for their own system with its own set of applicants and own set of criteria. Carribean schools exist ONLY as an adjunct to the US system, and are there pretty much to take bottom-tier US candidates. I'm not slamming off-shore schools -- my second cousin went to one and is now a very successful cardiologist, of all things -- but idq1i is right about the difference between Carribean schools and other schools in non-American countries.
But that's just ******ed.
But that's just ******ed.
Better avoid Yale then, they've got a SGU grad as an attending and clinical instructor. One of the Rad-Onc residents at Hopkins is an SGU grad too.
Not all Carribean schools are created equal. I wouldn't choose to go there unless I had exhausted other options. But if I did go there, SGU would be the only school I would consider.
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I agree
idq1i, its not like you are attending Harvard, so chill out. Go check out the stats of accepted students at your school. You will see that most of your classmates at one point were walking a thin line between getting accepted to a US med school or getting rejected and attending a 'diploma mill' that you sooooo hate!!
Infact, I applied to your school as a backup.
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Guys, the thread's original purpose was to provide advice on applying or defering Caribbean med schools. Bottom line is there are "some" top notch applicants at low tier med schools and "some" sub-par applicants at reputable med schools. The person is what makes the doctor. And that's what adcom looks at.
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16846
The main reason I posted was that some people in the Caribbean could be in the same situation as me, and thus negative blanket statements should not be used with regard to these individuals. I also believe that a common and malignant prejudice is that International Medical Student = Inferior, not just coming from the Caribbean, and I wanted to demonstrate that this is also not necessarily true.
-Mike
-Mike
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Dude look, I agree with you on the fact that most people go to carribean schools because they had lower stats than people who are able to attend US med schools. And that's the reason why they have the USMLEs.......which gives a second chance for the carribean IMGs to do well and prove themselves. So if a carribean med student scores a 235 or higher, which BTW is a damn good, wouldn't you be willing to acknowledge that he will make a 'good' or lets say a 'knowledgable' doctor?
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