Atls/acls/pals?

[Future EM?]

Hey guys/gals,

Do you know how hard it is to get through these? Do you have to read all the books to pass the class? Thanks.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Wrangler]

If you are talking about the ones at the begining of residency, they seemed pretty easy. Everyone in my EM program passed easily without too much effort. Some people in the surgery program failed though, so it is possible. Reading certainly dosen't hurt, since you should really know all of them well asap, b/c you just might find yourself running a code alone on your first day as some of my friends found out. (there are plenty of times this year where I was the first to walk into the room of a coding patient also) Overall, to pass you just need to know the algorythms and stuff on the little cards.

 

[Sheerstress]

That's a pretty good lowdown. I thought that the ATLS course required a little more advance reading of the book in order to get by their written test. Both ACLS and PALS were easier.

 

[Apollyon]

EVERYTHING you need for ACLS is in the first chapter - but keep the book. Believe it or don't, there's a lot of really interesting stuff in it (like what I dropped on the attendings in case round this morning - why to not routinely shock asystole "since it can't hurt" - if the patient is asystolic from profound vagal tone, they need atropine, and, if you defibrillate THAT, you have killed the patient). Likewise for PALS - but remember the mnemonic, "Do What Probably Sounds Stupid" - dry, warm, position, suction, stimulate - then oxygenate, ventilate, intubate, compress, medicate.

 

[Medic13z]

I can't speak about ATLS but before med school when I was a Paramedic/FF I became an instructor in ACLS and PALS (I still am and just did a course last week). Yes the 1st chapter of ACLS is important but, in order to pass you need to be able to read a basic EKG and MEMORIZE the algorythms. If you know them cold you WILL pass. In the past ACLS/PALS were really malignant. Evaluators were awful and tons of folks failed. That is not the case now. In 8 years, I have had to fail 5 people in ACLS...more in PALS. I have found that MD's and PA's had more trouble than RN's and the other students. I think that generally the non-MD students had more time to prepare but another factor is that non-MD students had more experience with the equiptment.

The "Megacode" part of the evaluation is pretty basic, there will be a tachy which may or may not need cardioversion, a VF/pulseless VT that needs defib and a brady/block that needs atropine +/- pacing. Always remember you are not done until, airway is secured, there is a perfusing pulse and a blood pressure (remember Dopamine here). That is unless you kill the patient....that happens too and it does not mean you did something wrong, evaluators just run out of imgaination. That is it! The evaluator kinda makes up the scenario as you go along.

So. DO NOT waste time reading all the textbook, you do not need it and it does not help you run a code. For the written exam, know stupid stiff like ratios and depth of compression for CPR. Just know the algorythms and remember A,B,C and say it to yourself over and over and you will do fine. Don't waste the energy worrying about ACLS and PALS.

 

[Apollyon]

Originally posted by Medic13z
I can't speak about ATLS but before med school when I was a Paramedic/FF I became an instructor in ACLS and PALS (I still am and just did a course last week). Yes the 1st chapter of ACLS is important but, in order to pass you need to be able to read a basic EKG and MEMORIZE the algorythms.

No longer FF, but still EMT-P, and, maybe, I knew the rhythms. Then again, the new (red) textbook is a little different - ALL I needed the first time was definitely in the first chapter.

Didn't want to mislead anyone. Still, it's easy stuff, if you just use your head.

 

[FoughtFyr]

Just remember they teach ACLS and PALS to us firefighter paramedics. We aren't even smart enough to run away from burning buildings 😀

I mean seriously, children and dogs have enough common sense to leave places that are on fire - but not us, no, we run IN - AND HAVE FUN DOING IT!!!

So, you should be able to pass any class we can 😛 That said the trick to passing is to keep it simple. ACLS and PALS are NOT M3 "pimp-fests", they are simple, straight-forward, universal patterns of behavior laid out in a manner so that those of us who regularly lose brain cells to CO poisoning during overhaul (SCBAs are too damn uncomfortable for truck work) can master them...

Just my $0.02 worth (actual cash value $0.005)

- H

 

[Future EM?]

do you know how big a deal it is to fail ATLS? I remember when taking ACLS, if you failed, you just retake the test on the spot and then they pass you. Do you have to take the whole course over for ATLS?

 

[deleted6669]

I have taken ATLS twice( 1995/2001). it is a great class and very worthwhile. I think if someone fails a section they allow you to repeat it. the nice thing about atls is that you have animal labs for procedures so you can get the feel for doing a crich/chest tube/etc on real tissue. also if you ask for something in a scenario like a chest xray, etc they have a real film prepared in advance . great class. can't recommend it highly enough.

 

[edinOH]

I took the ATLS course as a corpsman while in the navy. Even though I was the only non-physician in the class I was still able to understand most of what they were teaching and pass with no problems. With a little effort, I doubt any new interns will have much difficulty with it.

 

[Scrubbs]

Just did ACLS... and they had screwed up mailing us the books, so we all got them on the first day. Didn't read much of it, just studied the algorythms... class was easy. Don't stress. I have ATLS this week, so will report back again 😀.

 

[mikecwru]

Originally posted by Scrubbs
Just did ACLS... and they had screwed up mailing us the books, so we all got them on the first day. Didn't read much of it, just studied the algorythms... class was easy. Don't stress. I have ATLS this week, so will report back again 😀.

I take ACLS this week. But I found at we take ATLS at the beginning of second year. But we do trauma as first years. WTF?

mike

 

[tonem]

Scrubs and Mike you guys are starting early! I hope they're paying you.

 

[DrQuinn]

Took PALS today and yesterday, pretty easy. I think they geared it towards the EM residents (6 of us), by showing us all the "Children with Special Needs" like G-Tubes, Traches, Ports, etc... that was good, since we see a lot of those kids in the Peddie ED.

I got NALS tomorrow (Do you take that MikeCW?). Our PD is pretty gung ho and wants us to take everything. ATLS this weekend with FAST exam Monday evening. My first day off will be July 4th!

And my first paycheck doesn't come until July 11th. This week of PALS/NALS/ATLS/orientation is free. 🙁

Q, DO

 

[mikecwru]

Originally posted by QuinnNSU
Took PALS today and yesterday, pretty easy. I think they geared it towards the EM residents (6 of us), by showing us all the "Children with Special Needs" like G-Tubes, Traches, Ports, etc... that was good, since we see a lot of those kids in the Peddie ED.

I got NALS tomorrow (Do you take that MikeCW?). Our PD is pretty gung ho and wants us to take everything. ATLS this weekend with FAST exam Monday evening. My first day off will be July 4th!

And my first paycheck doesn't come until July 11th. This week of PALS/NALS/ATLS/orientation is free. 🙁

Q, DO

I finished ACLS last week, which was pretty easy. I started PALS yesterday and take the test today. We don't do the neonatal one... it doesn't seem like it would be that helpful. We do ATLS, but not until the beginning of second year (but we do trauma first year).... don't understand that. We have been "paid" since the start of orientation and our first check in July 1st.

mike

 

[Scrubbs]

We had ACLS and ATLS before we started, getting trained in PALS sometime this summer - don't do NALS. We got paid for orientation, but not for the 4 days of classes... first check is also July 11th.

ATLS (for those who haven't done it yet) was more difficult than ACLS. Course was good, labs were cool, test was hard and NOT straightforward. But, it was doable.

Mike - you have trauma w/o ATLS? Here (in PA) its a requirement in order to touch a trauma patient... people who didn't have it had to get their schedules switched to accomodate it.

 

[mikecwru]

Originally posted by Scrubbs
Mike - you have trauma w/o ATLS? Here (in PA) its a requirement in order to touch a trauma patient... people who didn't have it had to get their schedules switched to accomodate it.

Don't know. We all do a trauma month in intern year, but we don't do ATLS until the beginning of next year. I don't know what the laws are. I think you have to have it to fly, though.

mike

 

[DrQuinn]

Yeah, ATLS was much tougher than any XLS.

The written test was rather poor... barely got by... missed 8. Know several residents who did in fact failed that test. Apparently there is an easy version of the test and the hard version of the test (I had Test #3, they say that's the hardest).

The moulage was very cool. Just you and an instructor. It was nice to really test my knowledge (and see what I missed). Forgot the Rh isoimmunization in a pregnant trauma patient. Oopsie!

But now we're done with classes and tomorrow is the beginning of my ED orientation month, which will be cool.

Very differnet from any other program, though, as its only six residents total, so its a small lecture... which has its pros and cons.

And I get a fatty 3-day paycheck on the 11th. So these past 8 days of classes mean absolutely nothing.

Q, DO

 

[mikecwru]

Originally posted by QuinnNSU
Yeah, ATLS was much tougher than any XLS.

We used ACLS in less than 30 min on my first day on the acute side. It was fun to have a clue what was going on. The guy was alert and talking when I walked past 30 seconds prior. The next time I walked past, the chief resident was in the room, he was in SVT, and he moaned and fell back unresponsive. I think things are sometimes harder on the fast track side, because med school trains you for sick, sick people, but not what to do for a little kid who's constipated.

I don't know why you guys don't get paid for your merit badges. We got paid for every day of orientation.

 

[edinOH]

Damn Mike,

You've barely started internship and you are already trying to kill patients?

 

[mikecwru]

Originally posted by edinOH
Damn Mike,

You've barely started internship and you are already trying to kill patients?

Wasn't my patient. I only ran in when he turned blue and died.

mike

 

[The White Coat Investor]

2 shifts down. All my patients still alive. Feeling good. Who was it saying they had an easier time with a critical patient than constipation? Be glad man, be very glad......

Is it just me or is it scary how little you can know and pass ACLS?