how easy is it to get into auc? after graduating from a carribean med school is it hard to find residency or fellowship in cardiology?
auc and residency
- Thread starter jd
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Dude,
You probably don't want to go to AUC (and I recognize that I'm probably gonna catch a lot of flack for that). Ross or SGU. Look into it.
As far as Cardiology, that's a subspecialty of internal medicine, very competitive, and not a "high match" for IMGs. Nonetheless, if you come to the Caribbean, do well, get a respectable Internal Med match at a good school, do well, and then finish your residency with flying colors, you can do it. SGU and Ross do their clinicals 3rd and 4th year in the U.S. - guaranteed - if you are U.S. citizen. AUC does not. May not matter in the long run, but on the whole you're going to have better opportunities at Ross or SGU... more potential doors opened to you in the future. Of course, there are never any guarantees - even for U.S. students. Not everybody always gets exactly what they want.
-Skip
MS2 Ross University
Portsmouth, Dominica
You probably don't want to go to AUC (and I recognize that I'm probably gonna catch a lot of flack for that). Ross or SGU. Look into it.
As far as Cardiology, that's a subspecialty of internal medicine, very competitive, and not a "high match" for IMGs. Nonetheless, if you come to the Caribbean, do well, get a respectable Internal Med match at a good school, do well, and then finish your residency with flying colors, you can do it. SGU and Ross do their clinicals 3rd and 4th year in the U.S. - guaranteed - if you are U.S. citizen. AUC does not. May not matter in the long run, but on the whole you're going to have better opportunities at Ross or SGU... more potential doors opened to you in the future. Of course, there are never any guarantees - even for U.S. students. Not everybody always gets exactly what they want.
-Skip
MS2 Ross University
Portsmouth, Dominica
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Anyone know if AUC has shelf exams that must be passed before you are allowed to sit for the USMLE I like they do at Ross? I've spoken with some Ross students and they tell me that alot of people get tripped up on these exams and don't make it to take the USMLE, which is they whole point of why they are there! They tell me that Ross boasts higher USMLE pass rates (for those that actually sit for the exam) because of those shelf exams as well. It would be nice of you to comment on the actual percentages of Ross students that actually make it so far to take them USMLE, but I really wouldn't put much credibility behind what you say. Nothing personal. The best thing to do (for the original poster) is to contact the schools (AUC, Ross) personally to get the facts. The Ross student (intentionally or unintentionally) could be throwing out USMLE pass numbers that would resemble the claim that 85% of MLB players are on steroids. You would never know the real numbers (partly because they are skewed by these shelf exams). Now, let's not get too bananas on these shelf exams because some US schools have been known to employ them. It's just fact that Ross students have harder times passing them, probably (and I don't mean to insult anyone) because their admission standards are lower. The same goes for all caribbean schools, not just Ross or AUC. I know, personally, two AUC grads and know of two more practicing in my home town. Of the two I know personally, one is a neonatal fellow at Baylor SOM and the other is a family med resident at George Washington U SOM. They, to me, are reputable sources, yet they still have their biases. I wouldn't totally go out on a limb and say Ross or SGU and that's it. AUC is a decent school...if you can handle the work. Albeit, it couldn't be any more intense/more cut-throat than at Ross (from what the students tell me). Again, there are biases everywhere. It's good that you are asking questions, but it's much better to get info from the horses mouth.
P.S. Find out more about the respective islands and their customs/cultures. That's key. Find out if you think you can handle living in Dominica, which is called "The natural island". From what I'm told, it's not the easiest place to live. AUC and St. Maarten are much nicer and resemble Miami, FL. I mean, if living conditions aren't really a factor and you have the capabilities to live virtually anywhere and survive, ignore this PS.
P.S. Find out more about the respective islands and their customs/cultures. That's key. Find out if you think you can handle living in Dominica, which is called "The natural island". From what I'm told, it's not the easiest place to live. AUC and St. Maarten are much nicer and resemble Miami, FL. I mean, if living conditions aren't really a factor and you have the capabilities to live virtually anywhere and survive, ignore this PS.
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•••quote:•••Originally posted by Atlas:
•Anyone know if AUC has shelf exams that must be passed before you are allowed to sit for the USMLE I like they do at Ross?•••••Good question. I don't know. The tests do prepare you (get you thinking about the way the ultimate licensure tests will be structured).
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Atlas:
•I've spoken with some Ross students and they tell me that alot of people get tripped up on these exams and don't make it to take the USMLE, which is they whole point of why they are there!•••••Well, you are talking about, perhaps, two different things. First, there are the subject "shelfs" at the end of each semester. Then, there is the Comprehensive "Shelf" (a.k.a. the "big daddy") at the end of the pre-clinical studies. As far as the subject shelves, they count for a large percentage of your final individual course grade. You take the Comp Shelf only if your GPA is below 2.6 at the end of the first four semesters. Otherwise, you proceed to the fifth semester in Miami.
The problem is that the Comp Shelf is really, REALLY hard and you don't have much time to study for it after the end of fourth semester. This sets some students, who haven't academically proven themselves completely at that point, for failure. BUT, you have two more attempts to take it (i.e., longer study period, re-prepare, etc., etc.). If you fail it those two subsequent times... well, you're S.O.L. as they say. You can either apply with the Dean for additional remedial training, or you're simply out of the program.
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Atlas:
•They tell me that Ross boasts higher USMLE pass rates (for those that actually sit for the exam) because of those shelf exams as well. It would be nice of you to comment on the actual percentages of Ross students that actually make it so far to take them USMLE, but I really wouldn't put much credibility behind what you say. Nothing personal.•••••Well, first, the "credibility" issues you allude to are bilateral. No one should put TOO much creedence in anything anyone says on a forum without backing up that info doing their own research. Secondly, I'm not going to, however, completely disagree with you. Currently, we're told (and we don't see names or exact numbers just like the rest of those who inquire) that the first-time pass rate is around 90%. We also had a kid last year who scored a 266/99% on Step I. But, as I've said before, everyone trots out their poster-boys of success and clearly no one should come here thinking that that's the norm. Ross gives you a chance. The program is tough. It "weeds out" the weaklings, on some level. But, my experience and observation tells me that more often than not the people who don't make often don't because they failed to do the work - nothing more. There are a few who CLEARLY shouldn't have been here to begin with, but at least they got their chance. Many of them DO end-up transferring to AUC and other schools when Ross gives them the boot.
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Atlas:
•The best thing to do (for the original poster) is to contact the schools (AUC, Ross) personally to get the facts.•••••I agree 100%. Don't completely discard the info you get here, though. You're not going to get the "Sales Pitch" that you will from the school's recruiting offices.
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Atlas:
•The Ross student (intentionally or unintentionally) could be throwing out USMLE pass numbers that would resemble the claim that 85% of MLB players are on steroids.•••••
- Don't follow your analogy here...
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Atlas:
•You would never know the real numbers (partly because they are skewed by these shelf exams). Now, let's not get too bananas on these shelf exams because some US schools have been known to employ them.•••••Again, the distinction is between the "subject shelf" and the "comprehensive shelf". You can't sit for Step I until you pass the Comp Shelf. Ross boasted about 325 residency placements this year. That would account for all students who start in a single calendar year. There are between 210-240 (I'd say) students who start per class, times three classes per year. Throughout the program, people decide for various reasons (and not necessarily because they failed out) that they don't really want to be a doctor. But, we also get some transfers in. I'd say, by the end of 4th semester, a class has about 180-190 people left. So, let's multiply that by three. That gives you 570 students that get through the pre-clinical program. I'd assume that this would hold true for those same students (who recently matched) who were on the island in 1999-2000. So, you're looking at about 57% who start the program ultimately become doctors. You also have to consider, though, that some people will graduate and not match for whatever reason. Some may not want to do a residency, etc., as well. Being generous, let's bump that up to 60%.
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Atlas:
•It's just fact that Ross students have harder times passing them, probably (and I don't mean to insult anyone) because their admission standards are lower.•••••Well, I discussed that above. Yes, Ross will give students a chance. I can also tell you that there are people here who are brilliant and would have done just as well in any U.S. school, but for whatever reason didn't get an acceptance. Sure, there are some people in each class who are "bringing up the bottom", so to speak. But, at least they've been given a chance. They may not make it. I think each individual who meets that criteria needs to SERIOUSLY look at their performance at the end of the first semester and decide whether or not they really want to invest more time, money, and their life... especially if they BARELY passed their classes.
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Atlas:
•The same goes for all caribbean schools, not just Ross or AUC. I know, personally, two AUC grads and know of two more practicing in my home town. Of the two I know personally, one is a neonatal fellow at Baylor SOM and the other is a family med resident at George Washington U SOM. They, to me, are reputable sources, yet they still have their biases. I wouldn't totally go out on a limb and say Ross or SGU and that's it. AUC is a decent school...if you can handle the work. Albeit, it couldn't be any more intense/more cut-throat than at Ross (from what the students tell me). Again, there are biases everywhere. It's good that you are asking questions, but it's much better to get info from the horses mouth.•••••Again, this is where I'd invoke the same "hearsay" argument you made above. There are always "success" stories. On the whole, I'd like to know how many AUC students who start that program ultimately wind up practicing medicine in the U.S. as an AUC grad. I imagine that it's substantially lower than Ross (and SGU).
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Atlas:
•P.S. Find out more about the respective islands and their customs/cultures. That's key. Find out if you think you can handle living in Dominica, which is called "The natural island". From what I'm told, it's not the easiest place to live. AUC and St. Maarten are much nicer and resemble Miami, FL. I mean, if living conditions aren't really a factor and you have the capabilities to live virtually anywhere and survive, ignore this PS.•••••Yeah, Dominica is pretty much the pits. Some people love it here, though. Personally, I can't get off this island soon enough (will be in Miami in January - woohoo!).
Good luck whatever you choose!
•Anyone know if AUC has shelf exams that must be passed before you are allowed to sit for the USMLE I like they do at Ross?•••••Good question. I don't know. The tests do prepare you (get you thinking about the way the ultimate licensure tests will be structured).
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Atlas:
•I've spoken with some Ross students and they tell me that alot of people get tripped up on these exams and don't make it to take the USMLE, which is they whole point of why they are there!•••••Well, you are talking about, perhaps, two different things. First, there are the subject "shelfs" at the end of each semester. Then, there is the Comprehensive "Shelf" (a.k.a. the "big daddy") at the end of the pre-clinical studies. As far as the subject shelves, they count for a large percentage of your final individual course grade. You take the Comp Shelf only if your GPA is below 2.6 at the end of the first four semesters. Otherwise, you proceed to the fifth semester in Miami.
The problem is that the Comp Shelf is really, REALLY hard and you don't have much time to study for it after the end of fourth semester. This sets some students, who haven't academically proven themselves completely at that point, for failure. BUT, you have two more attempts to take it (i.e., longer study period, re-prepare, etc., etc.). If you fail it those two subsequent times... well, you're S.O.L. as they say. You can either apply with the Dean for additional remedial training, or you're simply out of the program.
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Atlas:
•They tell me that Ross boasts higher USMLE pass rates (for those that actually sit for the exam) because of those shelf exams as well. It would be nice of you to comment on the actual percentages of Ross students that actually make it so far to take them USMLE, but I really wouldn't put much credibility behind what you say. Nothing personal.•••••Well, first, the "credibility" issues you allude to are bilateral. No one should put TOO much creedence in anything anyone says on a forum without backing up that info doing their own research. Secondly, I'm not going to, however, completely disagree with you. Currently, we're told (and we don't see names or exact numbers just like the rest of those who inquire) that the first-time pass rate is around 90%. We also had a kid last year who scored a 266/99% on Step I. But, as I've said before, everyone trots out their poster-boys of success and clearly no one should come here thinking that that's the norm. Ross gives you a chance. The program is tough. It "weeds out" the weaklings, on some level. But, my experience and observation tells me that more often than not the people who don't make often don't because they failed to do the work - nothing more. There are a few who CLEARLY shouldn't have been here to begin with, but at least they got their chance. Many of them DO end-up transferring to AUC and other schools when Ross gives them the boot.
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Atlas:
•The best thing to do (for the original poster) is to contact the schools (AUC, Ross) personally to get the facts.•••••I agree 100%. Don't completely discard the info you get here, though. You're not going to get the "Sales Pitch" that you will from the school's recruiting offices.
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Atlas:
•The Ross student (intentionally or unintentionally) could be throwing out USMLE pass numbers that would resemble the claim that 85% of MLB players are on steroids.•••••
- Don't follow your analogy here...•••quote:•••Originally posted by Atlas:
•You would never know the real numbers (partly because they are skewed by these shelf exams). Now, let's not get too bananas on these shelf exams because some US schools have been known to employ them.•••••Again, the distinction is between the "subject shelf" and the "comprehensive shelf". You can't sit for Step I until you pass the Comp Shelf. Ross boasted about 325 residency placements this year. That would account for all students who start in a single calendar year. There are between 210-240 (I'd say) students who start per class, times three classes per year. Throughout the program, people decide for various reasons (and not necessarily because they failed out) that they don't really want to be a doctor. But, we also get some transfers in. I'd say, by the end of 4th semester, a class has about 180-190 people left. So, let's multiply that by three. That gives you 570 students that get through the pre-clinical program. I'd assume that this would hold true for those same students (who recently matched) who were on the island in 1999-2000. So, you're looking at about 57% who start the program ultimately become doctors. You also have to consider, though, that some people will graduate and not match for whatever reason. Some may not want to do a residency, etc., as well. Being generous, let's bump that up to 60%.
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Atlas:
•It's just fact that Ross students have harder times passing them, probably (and I don't mean to insult anyone) because their admission standards are lower.•••••Well, I discussed that above. Yes, Ross will give students a chance. I can also tell you that there are people here who are brilliant and would have done just as well in any U.S. school, but for whatever reason didn't get an acceptance. Sure, there are some people in each class who are "bringing up the bottom", so to speak. But, at least they've been given a chance. They may not make it. I think each individual who meets that criteria needs to SERIOUSLY look at their performance at the end of the first semester and decide whether or not they really want to invest more time, money, and their life... especially if they BARELY passed their classes.
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Atlas:
•The same goes for all caribbean schools, not just Ross or AUC. I know, personally, two AUC grads and know of two more practicing in my home town. Of the two I know personally, one is a neonatal fellow at Baylor SOM and the other is a family med resident at George Washington U SOM. They, to me, are reputable sources, yet they still have their biases. I wouldn't totally go out on a limb and say Ross or SGU and that's it. AUC is a decent school...if you can handle the work. Albeit, it couldn't be any more intense/more cut-throat than at Ross (from what the students tell me). Again, there are biases everywhere. It's good that you are asking questions, but it's much better to get info from the horses mouth.•••••Again, this is where I'd invoke the same "hearsay" argument you made above. There are always "success" stories. On the whole, I'd like to know how many AUC students who start that program ultimately wind up practicing medicine in the U.S. as an AUC grad. I imagine that it's substantially lower than Ross (and SGU).
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Atlas:
•P.S. Find out more about the respective islands and their customs/cultures. That's key. Find out if you think you can handle living in Dominica, which is called "The natural island". From what I'm told, it's not the easiest place to live. AUC and St. Maarten are much nicer and resemble Miami, FL. I mean, if living conditions aren't really a factor and you have the capabilities to live virtually anywhere and survive, ignore this PS.•••••Yeah, Dominica is pretty much the pits. Some people love it here, though. Personally, I can't get off this island soon enough (will be in Miami in January - woohoo!).
Good luck whatever you choose!
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IMHO, if you HAVE to go the Caribbean route, go SGU only. I'm a Caribbean MS IV (from one of the "less prestigious" schools), and I work alongside students from both Ross and AUC... be very wary of what you here about these schools... trust me. SGU or wait a year... just my 2 cents...
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•••quote:•••Originally posted by nvrsumr:
[QB]Prestigious and caribbean med school dont belong in the same sentence. [QB]••••That's what I was implying by putting it in quotes... I assumed that that would be understood by most people who have mastery of the English language... you apparently don't. Since you obviously have weak English comprehension skills, let me clarify for you... I am not an SGU student, and if you have been on these boards for any appreciable time, you would already know that I am a staunch opponent of American's going to any of the Caribbean medical schools... including SGU. Next time have your mommy or daddy help you interpret the posts here before you reply.
[QB]Prestigious and caribbean med school dont belong in the same sentence. [QB]••••That's what I was implying by putting it in quotes... I assumed that that would be understood by most people who have mastery of the English language... you apparently don't. Since you obviously have weak English comprehension skills, let me clarify for you... I am not an SGU student, and if you have been on these boards for any appreciable time, you would already know that I am a staunch opponent of American's going to any of the Caribbean medical schools... including SGU. Next time have your mommy or daddy help you interpret the posts here before you reply.
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•••quote:•••Originally posted by nvrsumr:
•Cuts
I have no interest in arguing in this forum. Let me defuse the situation. I think you went to Saba/St.E and had an excellent step 1 score of 239. I wish you the best of luck with a Rads residency and definitely think if an FMG can do it you are a likely candidate.
That being said I do not understand the personal attack.•••••Hmmm... I'm skeptical... your first post seemed to be directed squarely at me... first sentence clearly a misinterpretation of my post, Rads reference, SGU diploma comment... but o.k., if you say it wasn't I retract my comments toward you.
You seem to know quite a bit about me... pretty much correct although I should point out that my Step 1 score was 244. Thanks for you well wishes. Good luck to you as well.
•Cuts
I have no interest in arguing in this forum. Let me defuse the situation. I think you went to Saba/St.E and had an excellent step 1 score of 239. I wish you the best of luck with a Rads residency and definitely think if an FMG can do it you are a likely candidate.
That being said I do not understand the personal attack.•••••Hmmm... I'm skeptical... your first post seemed to be directed squarely at me... first sentence clearly a misinterpretation of my post, Rads reference, SGU diploma comment... but o.k., if you say it wasn't I retract my comments toward you.
You seem to know quite a bit about me... pretty much correct although I should point out that my Step 1 score was 244. Thanks for you well wishes. Good luck to you as well.
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I see your point and by and large agree... however I do think that all other factors being equal, IMHO it is more advantageous to graduate from (in order)...
SGU
Ross
AUC
all others
So, whenever I offer advise to someone considering going the Caribbean route, the first thing I say is "DON'T DO IT PLEASE DON'T DO IT!" After which I say "If you MUST do it as a LAST RESORT, go SGU." I sincerely hope no one is miscontruing this as my actually advocating SGU... all I intend to say is that if you're gonna make a bad choice, at least try and "minimize the damage." I'm also in no way saying that SGU is actually any better than Ross or AUC... IMO all Caribbean school are indeed pretty much the same. But, you know as well as I do, name and rep mean everything... and SGU is still on top in this regard.
About your choosing AUC over SGU... I would have probably done the same (all my life, women have been my Achilles heel). I think Path is a great choice... you'll probably get a good spot with that Step 1 score too. You want advice from me about your Rads rotation? O.k... waste of time bro... why don't you just let me do it in your place ? Seriously, I'm still trying hard to set up a Rads rotation for myself here in Chicago... it's kind of tough b/c as it is, I'm in a crunch to make next year's Match. I'm studying for Step 2 now too... slated for August 1st.
I'd love to know more about this Rads elective you have set up... PM me if you don't mind... I'd apprectiate it...
SGU
Ross
AUC
all others
So, whenever I offer advise to someone considering going the Caribbean route, the first thing I say is "DON'T DO IT PLEASE DON'T DO IT!" After which I say "If you MUST do it as a LAST RESORT, go SGU." I sincerely hope no one is miscontruing this as my actually advocating SGU... all I intend to say is that if you're gonna make a bad choice, at least try and "minimize the damage." I'm also in no way saying that SGU is actually any better than Ross or AUC... IMO all Caribbean school are indeed pretty much the same. But, you know as well as I do, name and rep mean everything... and SGU is still on top in this regard.
About your choosing AUC over SGU... I would have probably done the same (all my life, women have been my Achilles heel). I think Path is a great choice... you'll probably get a good spot with that Step 1 score too. You want advice from me about your Rads rotation? O.k... waste of time bro... why don't you just let me do it in your place
? Seriously, I'm still trying hard to set up a Rads rotation for myself here in Chicago... it's kind of tough b/c as it is, I'm in a crunch to make next year's Match. I'm studying for Step 2 now too... slated for August 1st.I'd love to know more about this Rads elective you have set up... PM me if you don't mind... I'd apprectiate it...
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Got it. Thanks a lot for the info man... as soon as I'm done with Step 2, I'll be all over that place like flies on ****. I'll be in touch via the board. Good luck!
