Australian Residency as a US Medschool Grad
Started by md_hopeful21
Get help with your application
Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.
There are tons of threads about the first two questions...I'm sure if you did a search you will be able to find lots of them that will be useful to you.
I don't know anything about your relationship with this "girlfriend" but would caution you to not do your residency training in Oz unless you plan on living there for the rest of your life (ie, even if you and she don't stay together). Your residency training in Australia is not transferable to the US (ie, you would have to repeat it once there). So I hope this is more serious than "just" a GF.
I don't know how competitive radiation oncology is in Oz, but like most fields you have to do a year or two as a general house officer before applying for the field.
I don't know anything about your relationship with this "girlfriend" but would caution you to not do your residency training in Oz unless you plan on living there for the rest of your life (ie, even if you and she don't stay together). Your residency training in Australia is not transferable to the US (ie, you would have to repeat it once there). So I hope this is more serious than "just" a GF.
I don't know how competitive radiation oncology is in Oz, but like most fields you have to do a year or two as a general house officer before applying for the field.
http://www.ranzcr.edu.au/faculty/index.cfm
The Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Radiologists' Faculty of Radiation Oncology website- Google is rather useful.
"Speciality training as a Radiation Oncologist is undertaken after completion of a medical degree and at least two years post-graduate clinical training. The Faculty of Radiation Oncology is the specialist medical college responsible for the training and assessment." - from the website.
I'd also mirror the advice given above, I'm moving states for my girlfriend and that took enough thought and deliberation about the career consequences. Moving countries... wow.
There are a couple of websites off the bat I can think of, http://www.doctorconnect.gov.au/ and http://www.amc.org.au/ will probably be useful starting points. If you go to Google Australia (google.com.au) and type in Overseas Trained Doctor you'll find more. The websites will be more accurate than anything I have to offer.
The Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Radiologists' Faculty of Radiation Oncology website- Google is rather useful.
"Speciality training as a Radiation Oncologist is undertaken after completion of a medical degree and at least two years post-graduate clinical training. The Faculty of Radiation Oncology is the specialist medical college responsible for the training and assessment." - from the website.
I'd also mirror the advice given above, I'm moving states for my girlfriend and that took enough thought and deliberation about the career consequences. Moving countries... wow.
There are a couple of websites off the bat I can think of, http://www.doctorconnect.gov.au/ and http://www.amc.org.au/ will probably be useful starting points. If you go to Google Australia (google.com.au) and type in Overseas Trained Doctor you'll find more. The websites will be more accurate than anything I have to offer.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
I was under the impression that if you completed your specialty training in Australia and obtained your FRACS, FRACGP, FRACP, etc... that the equivalent Royal College in Canada would accept it as an equivalent and as long as you've passed the medical licensure exams that they would allow you to register as a specialist in Canada. Is this true? .... and if so.. once licensed in Canada.. I was under the impression that they had a reciprocal agreement basically with the US.
So if you you get FRACP (Australia) and Canada accepts you as equivalent and grants you FRCPS (C) or whatever.. then you'd be able to apply for Board certification with the relevant Board in the US after becoming ECFMG cert etc?
Yes/No?
What about if you then completed a 2 year fellowship in an ACGME accredited subspecialty in the US?
I swear I've seen CVs before of Aussie trained doctors who have completed a 1-2 year fellowship in the US and now work private practice without having to redo their entire residency.
So if you you get FRACP (Australia) and Canada accepts you as equivalent and grants you FRCPS (C) or whatever.. then you'd be able to apply for Board certification with the relevant Board in the US after becoming ECFMG cert etc?
Yes/No?
What about if you then completed a 2 year fellowship in an ACGME accredited subspecialty in the US?
I swear I've seen CVs before of Aussie trained doctors who have completed a 1-2 year fellowship in the US and now work private practice without having to redo their entire residency.
Yes...once you obtained your FRCAS, FRCAP, etc...you can sit for the Canadian boards and the American boards. Actually, if you go to the American board website, they say that anyone who obtained their Canadian board licensing can sit for the American boards.
So...basically, yes, Australian residency is recognized.
There are a lot of doctors from Britain, Australia, etc...who practiced in their native lands for years and then found jobs in the USA. So what Kimberley wrote isn't true.
If this GF is a serious one, going to Australia isn't a bad idea.
Thank you for the clarification. This is apparently something fairly recent as when I trained abroad I met with several Aussie trained surgeons working in the US who had to repeat their training in the US.
MDHopeful21, it's better if you found your own information because people in this forum don't have all the information.
BTW, I went to the Canadian licensing website and they listed which Australian residency training programs they recognized - basically ALL subspecialties were covered, as were those of New Zealand, Ireland, Australia, Britain, South Africa, Hong Kong, and Singapore...You better go check it out for yourself. And I believe that the American one says that if you have your Canadian license, you are eligible for the American one. Check it out yourself.
However, if you don't finish your residency training in Australia...you're screwed. I had a really smart doctor from Cambridge medical school - a genius. He went to Canada after medical school to be with his GF...ended up working as a clinical assistant for 2 years before he matched into a Canadian residency program.
But don't take anyone's words. Go to the websites and get your own info!
BTW, I went to the Canadian licensing website and they listed which Australian residency training programs they recognized - basically ALL subspecialties were covered, as were those of New Zealand, Ireland, Australia, Britain, South Africa, Hong Kong, and Singapore...You better go check it out for yourself. And I believe that the American one says that if you have your Canadian license, you are eligible for the American one. Check it out yourself.
However, if you don't finish your residency training in Australia...you're screwed. I had a really smart doctor from Cambridge medical school - a genius. He went to Canada after medical school to be with his GF...ended up working as a clinical assistant for 2 years before he matched into a Canadian residency program.
But don't take anyone's words. Go to the websites and get your own info!
But I think the complexity of this process of returning to America through Canada proves what the deeper meaning of what the statement was- if you're moving because someone else you have to be pretty sure of what you're doing.
The USA may recognize Australia residency training outright but I don't know for sure.
But I do know that anyone who has a Canadian license can apply for American one (provided they pass the licensing exams) and Canada recognizes Australian residency training...
There are many doctors from the UK practicing in the USA and Canada right now so...
I am sorry if I misled people and I assumed that the requirements for Surgery were the same for other specialties. There seems to be some confusion here:
1) a medical license is not the same as being Board Certified or a Fellow of a specific College;
2) while you cannot practice medicine without a license, and you don't necessarily need to be BC..*yet*...there are some payors in the US and some employers who will not hire you if you are not BE or BC;
3) for Surgery at least, you cannot be BE/BC if you do not do your residency in the US;
4) Membership or Fellowship in a College is not a requirement to work in the US; it is an honorary designation and as far as that goes, not nearly as important as being Board Certified.
Perhaps as an attending, in the "real world" as opposed to the pre-meds posting here I have a different POV on these issues and understand that there is a common misconception that licensing, college membership and board eligibility are the same thing.
There are certainly many physicians from other countries currently working in the US; there is no denying that. However, the rules have gotten stricter over time and many of those may have either been grandfathered in or found some other loophole. It is cavalier to tell someone they can work in the US while having trained outside of the US without understanding all the issues at work. Having a US medical license is only the first step toward working here.
Yes, you can be licensed in most cases. No, you may not be Board Eligible and may not be considered for jobs or some insurance plans without this. This is a fundamental misunderstanding and one that is very relevant. I applied for some insurance plans before I took the Surgery boards and was turned down pending my passing the boards and being BC. Without being on insurance plans, I cannot see patients and be paid for it.
According to the information below, you CANNOT be Board Eligible or Board Certified in SURGERY if you have not done your residency in the US or Canada. There is NO RECIPROCITY. It is all good and well to be licensed, but if you are not Board Eligible you may be limiting your employment opportunities.
Here are the requirements for FACS:
http://www.facs.org/memberservices/intl2bfacs.html
You have to be BC in the US, have RCPS (Can) or proof of at least 5 years of training in a postdoctoral program. US residency training is "desirable" but not mandatory.
From the American Board of Surgery and its requirements to be Board Certified:
"The American Board of Surgery does not offer reciprocity with certification in other countries. Surgeons who have completed all or some of their surgical training outside the U.S. and wish to become certified by the American Board of Surgery must first enroll and complete training in an accredited U.S. or Canadian general surgery residency."
This is from: http://home.absurgery.org/default.jsp?certintlgraduates
So in essence, you CAN be a Fellow of the American College of Surgeons if you have trained outside of the US at a medical school deemed appropriate to the College AND either have RCPS (Can) or other approved training, BUT you cannot be Board Certified without having done your training in the US or Canada.
I do not know the requirements for other specialties. While it is true that not everyone here knows what they are talking about, my information comes from the primary sources above and is only relevant to Surgery. I would caution anyone to check the relevant boards (medical boards for licensing requirements and specialty boards for certification requirements) who is considering such a move and before assuming others here are wrong.
The rest of my information is anecdotal, from friends who stayed in Oz for their intern year in different specialties (EM and Path) but who had to complete the entire residency training, imcluding the intern year done in Oz, here in the US. So I assumed the situation was the same for most specialties....you cannot do part or an entire residency outside of the US or Canada and either transfer it to the US or be BE/BC.
Finally to recap, you can obtain a US license in most cases as well as be a Fellow of a Collge but if you are interested in Surgery (and perhaps other fields), you may not be eligible for BC and this can (and is proposed to get worse) be limiting your career choices.
1) a medical license is not the same as being Board Certified or a Fellow of a specific College;
2) while you cannot practice medicine without a license, and you don't necessarily need to be BC..*yet*...there are some payors in the US and some employers who will not hire you if you are not BE or BC;
3) for Surgery at least, you cannot be BE/BC if you do not do your residency in the US;
4) Membership or Fellowship in a College is not a requirement to work in the US; it is an honorary designation and as far as that goes, not nearly as important as being Board Certified.
Perhaps as an attending, in the "real world" as opposed to the pre-meds posting here I have a different POV on these issues and understand that there is a common misconception that licensing, college membership and board eligibility are the same thing.
There are certainly many physicians from other countries currently working in the US; there is no denying that. However, the rules have gotten stricter over time and many of those may have either been grandfathered in or found some other loophole. It is cavalier to tell someone they can work in the US while having trained outside of the US without understanding all the issues at work. Having a US medical license is only the first step toward working here.
Yes, you can be licensed in most cases. No, you may not be Board Eligible and may not be considered for jobs or some insurance plans without this. This is a fundamental misunderstanding and one that is very relevant. I applied for some insurance plans before I took the Surgery boards and was turned down pending my passing the boards and being BC. Without being on insurance plans, I cannot see patients and be paid for it.
According to the information below, you CANNOT be Board Eligible or Board Certified in SURGERY if you have not done your residency in the US or Canada. There is NO RECIPROCITY. It is all good and well to be licensed, but if you are not Board Eligible you may be limiting your employment opportunities.
Here are the requirements for FACS:
http://www.facs.org/memberservices/intl2bfacs.html
You have to be BC in the US, have RCPS (Can) or proof of at least 5 years of training in a postdoctoral program. US residency training is "desirable" but not mandatory.
From the American Board of Surgery and its requirements to be Board Certified:
"The American Board of Surgery does not offer reciprocity with certification in other countries. Surgeons who have completed all or some of their surgical training outside the U.S. and wish to become certified by the American Board of Surgery must first enroll and complete training in an accredited U.S. or Canadian general surgery residency."
This is from: http://home.absurgery.org/default.jsp?certintlgraduates
So in essence, you CAN be a Fellow of the American College of Surgeons if you have trained outside of the US at a medical school deemed appropriate to the College AND either have RCPS (Can) or other approved training, BUT you cannot be Board Certified without having done your training in the US or Canada.
I do not know the requirements for other specialties. While it is true that not everyone here knows what they are talking about, my information comes from the primary sources above and is only relevant to Surgery. I would caution anyone to check the relevant boards (medical boards for licensing requirements and specialty boards for certification requirements) who is considering such a move and before assuming others here are wrong.
The rest of my information is anecdotal, from friends who stayed in Oz for their intern year in different specialties (EM and Path) but who had to complete the entire residency training, imcluding the intern year done in Oz, here in the US. So I assumed the situation was the same for most specialties....you cannot do part or an entire residency outside of the US or Canada and either transfer it to the US or be BE/BC.
Finally to recap, you can obtain a US license in most cases as well as be a Fellow of a Collge but if you are interested in Surgery (and perhaps other fields), you may not be eligible for BC and this can (and is proposed to get worse) be limiting your career choices.
I've just realised what a negative view we've taken on this guy's relationship- we're talking as if they've got no chance and he's destined to return to America!
Screw that, who cares how one becomes Board Certified. You're going to marry your girl and have lots of babies- or equally likely, fall in love with Australian beer and blondes and stay near to the source forever.
Screw that, who cares how one becomes Board Certified. You're going to marry your girl and have lots of babies- or equally likely, fall in love with Australian beer and blondes and stay near to the source forever.
agreed
UPDATE:
The American Board of Surgery may now offer partial credit for graduate training done abroad. You must already be enrolled in a US surgery residency program, in good standing and your PD must apply for it:
http://home.absurgery.org/default.jsp?policycredforeign
So while you still must complete a residency in the US to be Board Eligible/Certified, it now appears that you may be able to get some credit for training done outside the US/Canada.
The American Board of Surgery may now offer partial credit for graduate training done abroad. You must already be enrolled in a US surgery residency program, in good standing and your PD must apply for it:
http://home.absurgery.org/default.jsp?policycredforeign
So while you still must complete a residency in the US to be Board Eligible/Certified, it now appears that you may be able to get some credit for training done outside the US/Canada.
I've heard Rad Onc is very competitive here in Aus.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
What source have you got that from Hayden? I personally have no interest in the field, off hand I know two people who have got onto the training scheme with no delay... one who had no interest in radiation oncology until a couple of weeks before applying for the position
Given it's the same college and same accreditation etc I would find it interesting if there were vast differences in ease of access into the field. I was actually quite surprised to find out how competitive rad onc is in the states (reading the forums here).
I presumed the reason for ease of access is that it is essentially a speciality restricted to the public domain... maybe some do brachytherapy privately.. who knows.
Given it's the same college and same accreditation etc I would find it interesting if there were vast differences in ease of access into the field. I was actually quite surprised to find out how competitive rad onc is in the states (reading the forums here).
I presumed the reason for ease of access is that it is essentially a speciality restricted to the public domain... maybe some do brachytherapy privately.. who knows.
Sorry, it is anecdotal...
similar to the other repliers in this thread, i do not know the specifics of rad-onc, but i have done a fair amount of research on the web regarding medicine. if i remember correctly, if one were a fellow of the RACP, pending review of your training, one year of your training could be credited toward the 3 years required of internal med training for board eligibility in the US. i looked into cardiology as a random specialty to see what requirements were for foreign trained physicains. it listed no such crediting of prior training. it simply stated that you must be board eligible in internal medicine. so you would have to redo at least 2 years of internal medicine, and then all of cardiology.
of course, RACP will allow you to credit some training abroad to their program (which is 6 years in total). so you could potentially do your internship in aus and assuming you had gained aus PR, you could do internal med and a specialty in the US and return to Aus with a year or 2 more to complete FRACP and thus be board certified in both aus and the US.
but lets get back to square one. from everything i have read, it is pretty much impossible to do internship in aus coming from a foreign school. go to the websites of the medical boards of each aus state and they will list the process and criteria for gaining internship through the computer match system. generally they do not allow it all these days (i think 1 or 2 states might). if you have gained your medical degree outside of aus you would generally need to obtain licensure in your home country before being eligible to work or do postgrad training in aus. thus youd have to do an internship year in the US before being able to go to aus.
i do believe many from the UK do their internships in aus, but i think they have been able to do that because of their both being commonwealth countries and having some kind of reciprocity established. not so with the US though.
of course, RACP will allow you to credit some training abroad to their program (which is 6 years in total). so you could potentially do your internship in aus and assuming you had gained aus PR, you could do internal med and a specialty in the US and return to Aus with a year or 2 more to complete FRACP and thus be board certified in both aus and the US.
but lets get back to square one. from everything i have read, it is pretty much impossible to do internship in aus coming from a foreign school. go to the websites of the medical boards of each aus state and they will list the process and criteria for gaining internship through the computer match system. generally they do not allow it all these days (i think 1 or 2 states might). if you have gained your medical degree outside of aus you would generally need to obtain licensure in your home country before being eligible to work or do postgrad training in aus. thus youd have to do an internship year in the US before being able to go to aus.
i do believe many from the UK do their internships in aus, but i think they have been able to do that because of their both being commonwealth countries and having some kind of reciprocity established. not so with the US though.
That's not quite true, there are quite a few interns in Oz hospitals from foreign countries. However to be able to do the internship you must be from a recognised school. The doctors from India/Pakistan etc. are more well recognised then the DOs from the US.
You will also have to go to a place that is not competitive in terms of internship - that could be a place like Adelaide or Perth for a big city, or a non capital city anywhere else. Your chances of getting an internship in Brisbane, Sydney or Melbourne are pretty much impossible (these places are even difficult for locals).
You will also have to go to a place that is not competitive in terms of internship - that could be a place like Adelaide or Perth for a big city, or a non capital city anywhere else. Your chances of getting an internship in Brisbane, Sydney or Melbourne are pretty much impossible (these places are even difficult for locals).
like i said, check the website of the department of health of each state for internship allocation. south australia's states "Where positions are vacant at the end of the above allocation process, offers will be made to overseas trained doctors from the AMC/JMO database", and from what i remember, you must have a license in your home country to be AMC eligible.
you should also keep in mind that had you gone to an aus med school as a foreigner you would probably have to work out in smaller towns anyway. sure, there are some on this board who have scored internships in major cities, but i dont think its the norm.
and indian doctors are more recognized than DO's from the US? all the aus department of health info i have read stated the US DO degree is not accepted at all since an osteopath is not a physician in aus. ive heard its near impossible to work in aus as a doctor with a DO degree even after completing all residency training.
And that's why I said Indian doctors are more recognised then DOs. That was not an insult to any partciular degree, just a statement of facts.
As for scoring internships from overseas, I guess having applied this year, I've noticed quite a few overseas doctors with internships. I don't think the outlook is quite as bleak as the the websites would make it appear. As said above your only big city chances would be Adelaide or Perth, which had excess spots this year. Everyone who applied for a spot there got it, including overseas doctors that came to Australia recently and had not even passed the AMC examination.
As for scoring internships from overseas, I guess having applied this year, I've noticed quite a few overseas doctors with internships. I don't think the outlook is quite as bleak as the the websites would make it appear. As said above your only big city chances would be Adelaide or Perth, which had excess spots this year. Everyone who applied for a spot there got it, including overseas doctors that came to Australia recently and had not even passed the AMC examination.
Also not to be rude, but in Oz unlike the States you have to be careful about armchairing websites and assuming that's gospel. Quick example:
This year on the Victoria website for Interns it was made quite clear that International students need not apply - as they had quota spots only for Australian PRs and Citizens. Many of us didn't bother to apply based on the website information. However there was a girl in my class who as an international really wanted a spot in Victoria and decided to write a letter to the PMCV as well as the hospital she was interested in working in. She outlined the fact that she had completed an elective there and made a case that she had ties to Victoria. Anyway she was the only international student in my class that got a match in Victoria, and she managed to match at Boxhill.
i would have to agree with both jaketheory and redshifteffect.
jaketheory is absolutely right in saying that obtaining internship as a fresh graduate outside of aus is/or seems nearly impossible. this is NOT to say that obtaining an internship in aus is difficult, but trying to find a position RIGHT AFTER med school WITHOUT having done an intern year in one's own native country is. the websites of most states will indicate that a graduate without pgy-1 experience is NOT eligible to even apply for a spot. and i've called few correspondences of these medical councils and was told the same answer.
i've been trying to do the same. i'm a final yr med in ucd, ireland. i'm also an american citizen. i wanted to work in aus for awhile and have posted a thread with same topic few months back. after all the responses and some research on my own, my conclusion was that it's very difficult for a graduate without pgy-1 experience to land an internship.
however, there are always exceptions to the rule and always a way if one seeks hard and long enough. not that i've found a way in yet, but i intend to keep trying, and i'd have to agree with redshifteffect here. if what redshifteffect said regarding excess spots in perth is true, then there should be a way. for obvious reasons it would be much more difficult to find a spot in popular spots such as sydney, melbourne, etc, but i think there should be a fair chance in more rural places.
the original post asked 1) how difficult is it to get a spot 2) something else 3) something else. there is no point in discussing 2) or 3) if one cannot even manage through 1).
to the original poster, hey man, good luck, i'm in a similar boat with u. no i don't have a gf in aus, but i'm sure i'll find one if i do go 🙂. the truth of the matter is, it is hard to find a spot unless u've had some postgraduate experience (which is what u're trying to bypass). and u'll probably end up having to compromise where u'd go (bigger cities vs smaller towns, etc). but if getting into aus is the main objective, i think it is still feasible. don't rely too heavily on websites as redshifteffect mentioned, i'd try calling places and contacting individual hospitals. that's what i'm planning to do next. hope this helps
jaketheory is absolutely right in saying that obtaining internship as a fresh graduate outside of aus is/or seems nearly impossible. this is NOT to say that obtaining an internship in aus is difficult, but trying to find a position RIGHT AFTER med school WITHOUT having done an intern year in one's own native country is. the websites of most states will indicate that a graduate without pgy-1 experience is NOT eligible to even apply for a spot. and i've called few correspondences of these medical councils and was told the same answer.
i've been trying to do the same. i'm a final yr med in ucd, ireland. i'm also an american citizen. i wanted to work in aus for awhile and have posted a thread with same topic few months back. after all the responses and some research on my own, my conclusion was that it's very difficult for a graduate without pgy-1 experience to land an internship.
however, there are always exceptions to the rule and always a way if one seeks hard and long enough. not that i've found a way in yet, but i intend to keep trying, and i'd have to agree with redshifteffect here. if what redshifteffect said regarding excess spots in perth is true, then there should be a way. for obvious reasons it would be much more difficult to find a spot in popular spots such as sydney, melbourne, etc, but i think there should be a fair chance in more rural places.
the original post asked 1) how difficult is it to get a spot 2) something else 3) something else. there is no point in discussing 2) or 3) if one cannot even manage through 1).
to the original poster, hey man, good luck, i'm in a similar boat with u. no i don't have a gf in aus, but i'm sure i'll find one if i do go 🙂. the truth of the matter is, it is hard to find a spot unless u've had some postgraduate experience (which is what u're trying to bypass). and u'll probably end up having to compromise where u'd go (bigger cities vs smaller towns, etc). but if getting into aus is the main objective, i think it is still feasible. don't rely too heavily on websites as redshifteffect mentioned, i'd try calling places and contacting individual hospitals. that's what i'm planning to do next. hope this helps
I know its not entirely the same (as NZers have no visa issues) but I know from the class below me(ie about to become interns), about 20% seem to be heading straight to decent-good hospitals in Melbourne/Sydney (Well, places like Westmead, Liverpool, St george.. Melbourne - western/eastern health/monash
Yes and no. It's not that simple. Medicine isn't like dentistry in a sense that there are many specialties and more politics to wade through.
I read recently that the US no longer recognized Canadian neurosurgery training. Not because the Canadians have poor training but because too many Canadian neurosurgeons were crossing the border competing with the US neurosurgeons.
Also, just because you finish in Australia and they may recognize your training in Canada does not mean you will be able to work in Canada when you finish.
Sure, there is a doctor shortage but where you work will still be dictated by politics, job availability etc.
Yes, this is specialty dependent but it's complicated.
It's also province dependent as well.
I can't stress this enough but do your training where you want to live.
There are always ways around things but unless you are in a strong financial situation, it is difficult to move around all the time, write licensing exams etc.
It is very disruptive to your lifestyle.
Aren't all appointments in the US essentially private practice?
My understanding is that if you do a fellowship and the hospital likes you, they hire you and you work for them on a contract basis but to set up shop on your own would require you to re-do residency. I think it's a legally very difficulty situation to be in.
You will have to repeat your training if you want to work in the US from Australia. The overseas doctors who have worked in the US had contracts with hospitals but they would not be able to work outside of that contract - they get the foot in the door from doing fellowships.
It's easier to get a competitive residency in the US if you have post-graduate training in another country as opposed to someone fresh out of medical school.
I do have some Aussie friends who know people who were Australians that work in the US now and I can ask for specifics but the ones I have talked to only did fellowships or had to re-do their training or extended hospital contracts where they were working.
In general entering the US without doing US training is pretty difficult. Having done a residency in Australia and entering Canada on the other hand is not as difficult. Since most Australian residencies are as long as or longer than the Canadian equivalent it's not hard to get them recognised. If you don't mind working in a province that has difficulty recruiting (ie Saskatchewan or Newfoundland) you are pretty much guaranteed a job (at least as a GP) without even completing all your training in Oz (only require two years provided you complete Psych, OandG, Paeds, Emergency, Surg and Med). This can then be used as a back door into provinces like BC and Ontario.
With specialty training Ontario grants exceptions and allows doctors from the major western countries direct recognition but this is done on a case by case basis. Unfortunately in regards to Canada it's difficult to do a residency there, especially if your interest isn't in General practice. Thus getting your Australian qualifications recognised in Canada may be the only way to re-enter for some; the good news is that it's not hopeless, and once done you have about 5 years to finish your relevant licensing exams.
If you have any doubt it would be a good idea to speak to recruiters as they have a much better understanding of the system then the College of Physicians (who were totally clueless).
small correction, red - Brisbane isn't terribly difficult yet. I was our Ballot Officer this year, and only a couple of domestic students (out of ~375 grads) who wanted greater brissie got shafted and placed into a 4th or 5th preference outside of greater brisbane. As for int'ls, those who wanted Brisbane got spots within a 30mins commute (e.g., Caboolture, where I'm at).
Quite right Pitman,
But that's a back door into Brisbane, you could have gotten Redcliffe and all, which are still on the train lines (even Logan, Bogan central) was possible. But I was referring to RBH, which was competitive this year, but which last year a lot of internationals got.
But that's a back door into Brisbane, you could have gotten Redcliffe and all, which are still on the train lines (even Logan, Bogan central) was possible. But I was referring to RBH, which was competitive this year, but which last year a lot of internationals got.
Advertisement - Members don't see this ad
hello all,
Quick question for those qualifying as MBChB from the UK who want to train in AUS.
1) do you have to do a 1 year internship in AUS to get a specialty training position (i'm interested in psychiatry) or could you do your internship years in the UK (FY1/FY2) and go to AUS with a specialty post?
2) Is is a big risk (i.e. greater risk than staying in the UK) to go to AUS for an internship year and then not be able to get the specialty training position in psychiatry?
3) Is rural psychiatry alway a potential option in case it all fails (i would like to train in Melbourne)
4) Should I do both my electives in AUS to enhance my chances of getting in, or does the internship year in AUS is better than any elective reference when applying for Psychiatry?
cheers in advance.
Quick question for those qualifying as MBChB from the UK who want to train in AUS.
1) do you have to do a 1 year internship in AUS to get a specialty training position (i'm interested in psychiatry) or could you do your internship years in the UK (FY1/FY2) and go to AUS with a specialty post?
2) Is is a big risk (i.e. greater risk than staying in the UK) to go to AUS for an internship year and then not be able to get the specialty training position in psychiatry?
3) Is rural psychiatry alway a potential option in case it all fails (i would like to train in Melbourne)
4) Should I do both my electives in AUS to enhance my chances of getting in, or does the internship year in AUS is better than any elective reference when applying for Psychiatry?
cheers in advance.
As far as I know if you are fully registered in your country, the one year internship in AUS is not required.
Psychiatry - extremely easy to get into. They don't even require the one year RMO/Resident training that they "suggest". Start as an RMO in a hospital in Psychiatry and you'll probably be a registrar in 2 months.
No need for rural psychiatry, but Melbourne (seeing as you're an IMG) probably isn't going to happen. You can however get your foot in the door in some other city - and then transfers while you are in the program are easy. Also being an IMG having a PR/Citizenship may be a requirement to get into the program, so look into that. If you are a graduate of an Australian school, having a PR is not a requirement.
Do an elective in a hospital you know you can get into. I'd suggest Brisbane, Adelaide or Perth for major cities, as you are unlikely to get Melbourne or Sydney.
I did a cursory look and couldn't find that info -- can you post a URL, Alphonsine? Tanks!
-pitman
hey redshifteffect, thanks for the reply.
I received a similar reply from RANZCP, that is:
- internship years may be taken elsewhere
Im trying to discover the immigration requirements for those who graduated medicine from UK or US (not AUS) and will post what I discover.
It's good news that one can transfer once accepted by RANZCP. By the way the AMC certificate is another requirement, or so I was told, even if graduating from a MBChB in the UK.
Thanks for the tip on the elective. I'm concerned whether to do the first or second elective there (or to do both).
Unfortunately, AUS also doesn't seem to allow a dual residency program in Neurology and Psychiatry - actually, besides the US, I don't know where else such a combined program is offered.
I received a similar reply from RANZCP, that is:
- internship years may be taken elsewhere
Im trying to discover the immigration requirements for those who graduated medicine from UK or US (not AUS) and will post what I discover.
It's good news that one can transfer once accepted by RANZCP. By the way the AMC certificate is another requirement, or so I was told, even if graduating from a MBChB in the UK.
Thanks for the tip on the elective. I'm concerned whether to do the first or second elective there (or to do both).
Unfortunately, AUS also doesn't seem to allow a dual residency program in Neurology and Psychiatry - actually, besides the US, I don't know where else such a combined program is offered.
Quite true, I forgot about the AMC requirement - but just double check because a few years ago Psych was one of the few fields where you were granted exemption from the AMC exam if you were willing to train in it (because the demand was so low).
The demand is a lot more now then it was previously - so this may have changed.
The only dual residency offered in Psych is Paeds + Psychiatry. Since Neurology is an extremely competitive field in Physician training (Internal med) it is unlikely this will be a dual residency with psych any time soon.
sweeeeet...thanks, red.
From what I heard, its pretty tough for even internationals in Australian medical schools to secure training positions, so it would probably be impossible for a US graduate to do a residency in Australia, unless maybe for a rural area.
There are a lot of NZ trained doctors in central melbourne hospitals (RMH, Alfred, St Vincents).. not exactly in the same boat as the average IMG.. but there are also Ireland grads, and a guy I was supposed to be working with had his visa declined or something (he was from some random middle eastern country I think... the point is he was still accepted to work as a resident by the hospital) so I think a UK grad having completed internship would have a very good chance of getting a hospital SOMEWHERE within 30 minutes of melbourne
Not true, internationals from Australian schools with PRs are on equal footing with Australian graduates.
However the bottleneck usually occurs with internships, since the first round offers usually go to Australians and few internationals have PRs/citizenships. After this, there is no issue at all.
Psychiatry is easy to get into for anybody.
Well that is the big catch, you need to have a PR before you can get an internship position. An Australian medical degree is not a good way to immigrate into the country, you get no points for the degree because you are not considered a doctor until you have at least finished an internship, internship spots are becoming limited. You also forgot to mention the 10 years in the Outback deal for former internationals, the only way out of this is to go into some real middle of nowhere place for at least a couple of years, still a few years wasted in the middle of nowhere, not as good a deal as for the local students.
