Automatic rejection by admissions algorithm?

[supastudier2000]

When thousands apply to a school, surely the committee does not go through all of them...right?

Do they use a computer algorithm that takes MCATs and GPAs to eliminate lower score applicants automatically? Only once they get through this "algorithm" can they be evaluated by human admission committees... right?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

Sounds about right. The rule of thumb is you shouldn’t apply if you GPA or MCAT is less than their 10th percentile.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Every admissions committee will handle screening differently from others, but every school must have humans be involved in screening. It's not like applying for a job where your electronic resume and cover letter for a job is scored with an automatic tracking system based on the optimal frequency of key words that fit what the hiring manager is looking for.

Are there standards and rules of thumb that make it much easier for us to eliminate applications? Sure there are. As @gonnif mentions, the goal is to keep your application interesting and not get eliminated. Each admissions committee should have a clear vision of what they are looking for in general, from which specific criteria can be generated and used to compare against what they see in the pool. But we want the top quartile or better within our pool of applicants. That's why the SDN rules of thumb about GPA compatibility is important.

 

[deleted688779]

I read somewhere that, legally speaking, a human must have looked at your application at least once. But you can understand how that is difficult to enforce and how easy it can be loopholed/half-assed.

 

[gulli_97]

UTSW sends auto II based on MCAT/GPA threshold and then does a secondary look at applications however I think these are mostly limited to certain characteristics the school looks for - URM/Veterans/etc. This is all on their website. Heard UChicago does the same!

 

[altblue]

I read somewhere that, legally speaking, a human must have looked at your application at least once. But you can understand how that is difficult to enforce and how easy it can be loopholed/half-assed.

I think that with secondary fees it's only fair that your app at least gets a quick glance

 

[gyngyn]

I think that with secondary fees it's only fair that your app at least gets a quick glance

Secondary fees are to discourage random applications.
Without them, everyone would apply everywhere. It's the only way we have of limiting this at the current time.

 

[Goro]

Secondary fees are to discourage random applications.
Without them, everyone would apply everywhere. It's the only way we have of limiting this at the current time.

Secondaries are often a tax on the hopelessly optimistic, if not pathologically naive

 

[gyngyn]

Secondaries are often a tax on the hopelessly optimistic, if not pathologically naive

I'd be happy to waive all secondary fees if there were a way to limit the total number of applications from any individual.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

My official line: Secondary fees help pay for the extra processing it sometimes requires to re-input information from your primary application into a school-specific system. It also helps offset costs related to interview day unless you really don't want coffee, lunch, or any little marketing perks at recruitment fairs.

 

[Wolvvs]

My official line: Secondary fees help pay for the extra processing it sometimes requires to re-input information from your primary application into a school-specific system. It also helps offset costs related to interview day unless you really don't want coffee, lunch, or any little marketing perks at recruitment fairs.

Maybe an extreme example, but Tufts received 11,349 completed secondary applications for the class of 2023. If 10,000 of those students paid the full secondary fee (which is roughly in line with the percent of students who are eligible for the fee assistance program) that's $1.3 million, which I'm sure is far more than enough to cover their admin costs for processing secondaries and holding interviews. I think their relatively high secondary fee is a way to discourage excessive applications, although it doesn't seem to work very well... I think it would be much better if there were a limit on the number of schools applicants could apply to per year. Applicants have to apply to more and more schools each year just to keep up.

 

[Goro]

Maybe an extreme example, but Tufts received 11,349 completed secondary applications for the class of 2023. If 10,000 of those students paid the full secondary fee (which is roughly in line with the percent of students who are eligible for the fee assistance program) that's $1.3 million, which I'm sure is far more than enough to cover their admin costs for processing secondaries and holding interviews. I think their relatively high secondary fee is a way to discourage excessive applications, although it doesn't seem to work very well... I think it would be much better if there were a limit on the number of schools applicants could apply to per year. Applicants have to apply to more and more schools each year just to keep up.

This also assumes that the secondary fees stay with the Admissions Dep't. At many schools they will simply disappear into University level general funds.

 

[Fishwithadeagle]

That is somewhat correct except that EVERY application is, at some point seen by humans, even if during the "reject review" step. Applications are initially reviewed and screened, either thru policy, software, or culture of the adcom, and broadly classified in some form or another from high to low, becoming essentially the priority for evaluation in the next step. It is necessary for humans to review every application as many things such as grade trends, postbacc/SMP, life story, may alter how applicant is ultimately viewed by the committee. This broad screening will make place you in the queue for evaluation. This queue will likely take into account this priority and when submitted. But this is a dynamic process, so as new applications come in, it can push you down in priority and delay when you get thru the process

These are then assigned in some fashion to either groups or individuals for a full evaluation. Here your are classified or scored in detail and this again becomes your priority in the next step of either group review and/or interview invite. Applications that are initially screened as below metrics will be read in what I call the "reject review" step which is how I started in admissions as a undergraduate clerk when there were mounds of paper to handle. They look for any reason that this application should be fully evaluated.

I will also add that medical schools admissions simply by sheer numbers of applications, becomes a negative process. Every school must reject at least 80% of applicants pre-interview as there is a finite number of slots for interviews. This is an Olympic class event where most candidates are very good, but only a few will be awarded a "medal" in the form of an acceptance

What do you think about RFU's recent automated email, essentially saying that they haven't reviewed a prospective student's application?

 

[Fishwithadeagle]

$1.3 million would barely cover the total cost of processing, evaluating, and interviewing the students as the cost of the personnel.

Their costs per year would include the following
$100,000: computers, software, processing materials on a 3-5 year depreciation
$375,000: administrative staff of 5 FTE with benefits at $75,000 each per year
$100,000: evaluation of applications @10 minutes per application, being at 1700 total hours @$60 an hour
$500,000: interviews 20 dates with 50 total staff/faculty means about 8,000 total staff hours @$60 an hour
$300,000: reviews/committee meetings with 20 meetings attended by 30 faculty about 5,000 staff hours @$60 hour

Jobs don't require you to pay for applications. It is a cost of doing business. This should be factored into the ever increasing tuition cost of these schools.

 

[mmchick]

I'd be happy to waive all secondary fees if there were a way to limit the total number of applications from any individual.

My only skepticism towards this is the varying amounts that schools can charge for secondary fees; some schools charge a reasonable $70-80 while others are upwards $120+ along with additional requirements (i.e. CASPer) and an already cost-prohibitive primary fee per school. Seems to me that the secondary fee serves as a limiting factor to some degree, but additionally as appreciated revenue to just unleash algorithms on the bottom-feeders as well.

I feel like a more efficient process would be for schools to cap out who can apply based on certain hard stat-related standards (e.g. no GPAs lower than 3.0, MCATs lower than 505, etc.) Though there are special circumstances, it seems as though schools definitely have their own standards that are either filtered already through algorithms or sought-out ECs.

In other words, after filling out the primary, there should be hard-stops that prevent you from applying to certain schools if you don't meet the stat requirements or certain number of hours for X activity, etc. Sure, doesn't give you a good warm fuzzy feeling inside, but I would prefer to be told I outright can't apply to Harvard than be charged $1,500+ to apply to the schools I was intending on anyway.

 

[gyngyn]

I'm all for efficiency, but there are gems to found in the lower stat applicants.
Admittedly, most are not reachable...
I loathe CASPer.

If there were a cap on applications, folks would have to carefully consider their choices, no matter how much cash they have.
This would level the playing field a bit.

 

[Fishwithadeagle]

You are working under the idea that these is are profit making enterprises, which they are not. All aspects of medical education in a medical school are cost centers that require funding to operate. Indeed, even tuition does not cover the cost of educating physicians

A medical school has the following sources of income:
Tuition
Fees (like secondary)
Direct donation
Endowment income (ie interest)
State budget (public schools)

It gets NO income from treating patients; that belongs to the health system, physicians practice, etc

Generally speaking, schools have decently sized endowments, which definitely helps. There are a decent amount of significant donations, both public and private, and yes the state budget also helps. I wouldn't expect the medical school to boost their finances through treating patients as that is a completely separate system.

Granted, I'm outside of the admin world of medical schools, but aren't most professors either researchers or practicing physicians by trade? Therefore, won't they also have other sources of incoming, meaning that the medical school isn't footing the bill for an entire physician salary? Take a look at LECOM. They are private and have quite minimal tuition costs, granted they skimp on certain things. Scale it up a bit, and it would seem that 50k / student should realistically cover the cost of education per year.

Additionally, now we have the advent of for profit medical schools, which is honestly just a change in the way finances are handled. Technically, midwestern is not for profit, yet they are 76k / year now.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

This also assumes that the secondary fees stay with the Admissions Dep't. At many schools they will simply disappear into University level general funds.

You beat me. I'll just say in my experience the money usually goes into "Operations".

 

[gyngyn]

You beat me. I'll just say in my experience the money usually goes into "Operations".

Not even at the medical school!